On 10/9/2012 10:40 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 13:05:36 -0400, Greg Guarino
wrote:

On 10/8/2012 11:15 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
On 10/7/2012 5:27 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

But then again, you could (horrors!) screw then in by hand.

I suppose, but there were 40 of them. Does anyone screw in pocket
screws by hand?


You will learn that pocket hole screws bottom out very quickly
and can spin quite easily. Depending on the wood, finishing with
a ratchet driver is a better choice.

Plywood doesn't always grab the screws like you would expect.

The driver just spins them a little too hard at times.

I'll keep that in mind, thanks. Despite my relative inexperience with
real woodworking, I have developed a pretty good touch for driving
screws with a drill.

Except for the fact that you said you need to hold lots and lots of
pressure on them while driving?

The court stenographer's read-back confirms that I used the word "some",
rather than "lots and lots". The official record also has you making a
curious assertion about tangential gravity.

I didn't encounter any trouble with either the 40
pocket holes or the 20 or so screws I used to attach the decorative
molding I used for the front panel.

This is good.


I should add that, as recommended here, I tried the Kreg pocket screws
out for a non-pocket application. They really do grab nicely. In this
case it was the coarse variety.

Don't Kregs have a type-17 tip, with the milled self-start? That's
the ticket for quick starts and never a split board.
http://www.zerofast.com/screw.htm

"Type 17" is a new term for me, but if it refers to a notch up the tip
of the screw that acts as a drill bit, yes, they have that feature.

On 10 Oct 2012 09:28:57 GMT, Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

" wrote in
:

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 18:15:48 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

I worked with Torx back in the spring and wish all of my square drive
were Torx. You can keep the Philips head. ;~)

I'm with you, except when I have to fork over for Torx screws. ;-)


We had some Torx-head composite decking screws that were useless. They
were cheaply made (but I'm sure not cheaply priced), and made it extremely
easy to spin out the head. At least Phillips gives you a fighting chance
to remove the screw if the head gets buggered up.

You certainly wouldn't say that if you used the SS Philips head screws I used
on the deck in VT. The damned things stripped if you looked crosseyed and the
only way to get them out was vice grips. A RPITA. I always go for Torx for
large screws, now. Sheetrock screws, not so much. ;-)

On 10/10/2012 5:28 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
" wrote in
:

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 18:15:48 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

I worked with Torx back in the spring and wish all of my square drive
were Torx. You can keep the Philips head. ;~)

I'm with you, except when I have to fork over for Torx screws. ;-)


We had some Torx-head composite decking screws that were useless. They
were cheaply made (but I'm sure not cheaply priced), and made it extremely
easy to spin out the head. At least Phillips gives you a fighting chance
to remove the screw if the head gets buggered up.

I consider the ability to not strip out the head a feature. If the
shank is breaking then either the screw is garbage or the material is
too dense and not properly prepared, as in pilot holes, or the driver is
over powered and not clutched.

I recently replaced the batteries in a Garmin Nuvi GPS. The battery
came with a tool kit with 3 drivers, small drivers normally used in
eyeglass or watch repair. REALLY small. One was the smallest torx
driver I've ever seen. Good thing, because the tiny ass screw was so
damn tight it took all my strength to break it loose, and I'm not a
little guy. I don't think any other head type would have survived the
stress being that small.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:43:04 -0400, Greg Guarino
wrote:

On 10/9/2012 10:40 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 13:05:36 -0400, Greg Guarino
wrote:

On 10/8/2012 11:15 AM, Pat Barber wrote:
On 10/7/2012 5:27 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

But then again, you could (horrors!) screw then in by hand.

I suppose, but there were 40 of them. Does anyone screw in pocket
screws by hand?


You will learn that pocket hole screws bottom out very quickly
and can spin quite easily. Depending on the wood, finishing with
a ratchet driver is a better choice.

Plywood doesn't always grab the screws like you would expect.

The driver just spins them a little too hard at times.

I'll keep that in mind, thanks. Despite my relative inexperience with
real woodworking, I have developed a pretty good touch for driving
screws with a drill.

Except for the fact that you said you need to hold lots and lots of
pressure on them while driving?

The court stenographer's read-back confirms that I used the word "some",
rather than "lots and lots". The official record also has you making a
curious assertion about tangential gravity.

BZZZZT! Negatory. You made -that- assertion yourself, Greg.



I didn't encounter any trouble with either the 40
pocket holes or the 20 or so screws I used to attach the decorative
molding I used for the front panel.

This is good.


I should add that, as recommended here, I tried the Kreg pocket screws
out for a non-pocket application. They really do grab nicely. In this
case it was the coarse variety.

Don't Kregs have a type-17 tip, with the milled self-start? That's
the ticket for quick starts and never a split board.
http://www.zerofast.com/screw.htm

"Type 17" is a new term for me, but if it refers to a notch up the tip
of the screw that acts as a drill bit, yes, they have that feature.

That's it. It makes all the difference in the world, too, when you're
driving into the ends of deck boards with 3-1/2" long screws.

Torx is tops.

--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin

On 10/10/2012 11:26 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
Except for the fact that you said you need to hold lots and lots of
pressure on them while driving?

The court stenographer's read-back confirms that I used the word "some",
rather than "lots and lots". The official record also has you making a
curious assertion about tangential gravity.

BZZZZT! Negatory. You made -that- assertion yourself, Greg.

Logical inference. The weight of a drill will only act to keep the bit
in the screw head if it is pointed within a small angle of straight
down, at least in my neighborhood.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 11:49:41 -0400, Greg Guarino
wrote:

On 10/10/2012 11:26 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
Except for the fact that you said you need to hold lots and lots of
pressure on them while driving?

The court stenographer's read-back confirms that I used the word "some",
rather than "lots and lots". The official record also has you making a
curious assertion about tangential gravity.

BZZZZT! Negatory. You made -that- assertion yourself, Greg.

Logical inference. The weight of a drill will only act to keep the bit
in the screw head if it is pointed within a small angle of straight
down, at least in my neighborhood.

I said "doesn't need much" IIRC. After starting a square head screw
into the wood (3/4" or so), I can take my hand off the driver and it
will stand there like it was glued on. If yours won't do that, you
are buying either the wrong screws, the wrong bits, or both, as I said
before. I have to physically wiggle the driver to get the bit out of
the driven screw each time. This is with deck screws (galv or epoxy
coated) mostly, but I seem to recall it being true with all the black
oxide McFeely micro pocket and washer-head screws, too.

--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin