Got some white oak flooring laid, now need to make it match some
existing red oak i have already. The red oak has been finished with
BLO, and 4 coats of shellac, and one coat of waxless shellac. (in case i
wanted to poly later). Anyone got any suggestions as to how to come
close to making this white oak look like the red? I realize the grain
structure is completely different.

thanks in advance!

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Not a clue. White oak is darker than red oak, so first you have to
lighten it by Bleaching it.

Next You have to come up with a color that looks the same...


You realize that the 4 coats of shellac if it had wax, then the one coat
of "WAXLESS" still has wax in it, as the previous coats remelt.

You want to use DEWaxed on furniture and floors. I use waxed shellac on
utility items for the shop. It allows the glue to come off a little
easier and is cheaper... I save the good stuff for good stuff. I used
the zinser seal coat when I want a cheaper / quicker dewaxed..

On 7/6/2012 11:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
Got some white oak flooring laid, now need to make it match some
existing red oak i have already. The red oak has been finished with
BLO, and __4 coats of shellac, and one coat of waxless shellac.__ (in case i
wanted to poly later). Anyone got any suggestions as to how to come
close to making this white oak look like the red? I realize the grain
structure is completely different.

On 7/6/2012 10:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
Anyone got any suggestions as to how to come
close to making this white oak look like the red?

Professional floor finisher.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 7/7/2012 8:18 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/6/2012 10:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
Anyone got any suggestions as to how to come
close to making this white oak look like the red?

Professional floor finisher.


thanks to both of you for you highly helpful replies. I thought for
sure someone would help. I thought of you two in particular. sigh
And no, WHITE oak is NOT darker than red. At least not the wood i have
here.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 7/7/2012 8:23 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 7/7/2012 8:18 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/6/2012 10:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
Anyone got any suggestions as to how to come
close to making this white oak look like the red?

Professional floor finisher.


thanks to both of you for you highly helpful replies. I thought for
sure someone would help. I thought of you two in particular. sigh And
no, WHITE oak is NOT darker than red. At least not the wood i have here.

Simply put, and no disrespect or snideness intended, if you have to ask
the question, my reply is possibly, and infinitely, more "helpful" than
you now realize?

You may have some luck staining close to the color, then using a toner
in the top coat to match the rest of the floor, but if you had to ask
the question it is obvious you do not have either the expertise, or the
equipment, to make that work satisfactorily, at least without much trial
and error, and possible ruination of surrounding areas.

The only thing left to tell you, if you decide to do it yourself, is to
practice on some scrap ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

That's strange, all the white oak I have is darker than red oak.
How did you manage that?



On 7/7/2012 9:23 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 7/7/2012 8:18 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/6/2012 10:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
Anyone got any suggestions as to how to come
close to making this white oak look like the red?

Professional floor finisher.


thanks to both of you for you highly helpful replies. I thought for
sure someone would help. I thought of you two in particular. sigh And
no, WHITE oak is NOT darker than red. At least not the wood i have here.

On 7/6/2012 10:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
Got some white oak flooring laid, now need to make it match some
existing red oak i have already. The red oak has been finished with BLO,
and 4 coats of shellac, and one coat of waxless shellac. (in case i
wanted to poly later). Anyone got any suggestions as to how to come
close to making this white oak look like the red? I realize the grain
structure is completely different.

Well, it's never going to look "like" the red because of the difference
in ray characteristics and the more porous grain structure of red vis a
vis white (unless you use something on it that just essentially hides
the grain/pattern entirely, anyway).

As Swing says, take some representative samples and starting working on
finding coloring that at least comes close is about the only choice;
particularly since you've already finished one so can't adjust both
towards a common.

Why, may I ask, didn't you just get some red oak to start with if the
idea was to match--it's far more commonly available in flooring anyway...

--

On 7/7/2012 8:42 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
That's strange, all the white oak I have is darker than red oak.
How did you manage that?
....

Not difficult; there's significant color variation in both; particularly
in the red.

I've got quite a bit on hand that I would call darker in red oak than
much of the white, too...then, there's some in the stack that's the
other way 'round. Heck, I don't know; depends on the particular
board....and even section within

--

On 7/7/2012 8:42 AM, tiredofspam wrote:

That's strange, all the white oak I have is darker than red oak.
How did you manage that?

IME, there are so many color variations in both that relying on color to
be a distinguishing characteristic will probably fool you more often
than not.

I have had both side by side in the shop and about the only way I could
tell, being color blind, was to blow into the end grain, like you were
shooting a blow gun. You will find that with red oak it is like blowing
through a straw, and with most other oaks, the resistance to air passage
is marked. AAMOF, there was some solution that my grandfather would use
to paint the end of a stripped oak log that he could look at to tell
which was which.

Being a youngster at the time, I just assumed it was some kind of magic.

The other thing about mixing the two, at least in IME, is "time" ...
white oak is subject to darken more than red oak over time after
finishing. Another reason to be on your guard when trying to match the two.

I don't know this for a fact, but I always thought that white oak was
named because parts of its bark turns white in the woods. I can
generally spot a white oak from a distance by the lightness of the edges
of its bark compared to other oak trees. Then again, that might just be
wishful thinking on my part, but it usually pans out when I get close
enough to see the leaves.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 7/7/2012 8:23 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 7/7/2012 8:18 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/6/2012 10:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
Anyone got any suggestions as to how to come
close to making this white oak look like the red?

Professional floor finisher.


thanks to both of you for you highly helpful replies. I thought for
sure someone would help. I thought of you two in particular. sigh And
no, WHITE oak is NOT darker than red. At least not the wood i have here.



Wait till you actually put a finish on the white oak before you think it
is not darker than red oak.

On 7/7/2012 9:42 AM, Swingman wrote:

I don't know this for a fact, but I always thought that white oak was
named because parts of its bark turns white in the woods. I can
generally spot a white oak from a distance by the lightness of the edges
of its bark compared to other oak trees. Then again, that might just be
wishful thinking on my part, but it usually pans out when I get close
enough to see the leaves.


Perfect example ... this is a shot taken from the balcony of our
lakehouse looking out toward our dock on Lake Hamilton, in Hot Springs, AR.

The large tree on the left is a white oak, guaranteed:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...40325868380146


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 7/7/2012 9:42 AM, Swingman wrote:
I don't know this for a fact, but I always thought that white oak was named
because parts of its bark turns white in the woods. I can generally spot a
white oak from a distance by the lightness of the edges of its bark compared to
other oak trees. Then again, that might just be wishful thinking on my part,
but it usually pans out when I get close enough to see the leaves.

That's been my experience as well.

--
Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how
sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 7/7/12 9:54 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/7/2012 9:42 AM, Swingman wrote:

I don't know this for a fact, but I always thought that white oak was
named because parts of its bark turns white in the woods. I can
generally spot a white oak from a distance by the lightness of the edges
of its bark compared to other oak trees. Then again, that might just be
wishful thinking on my part, but it usually pans out when I get close
enough to see the leaves.


Perfect example ... this is a shot taken from the balcony of our
lakehouse looking out toward our dock on Lake Hamilton, in Hot Springs, AR.

The large tree on the left is a white oak, guaranteed:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...40325868380146


Learn something new every day.
Looks like we have a bunch of white oak behind our house.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/7/2012 8:39 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/7/2012 8:23 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 7/7/2012 8:18 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/6/2012 10:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
Anyone got any suggestions as to how to come
close to making this white oak look like the red?

Professional floor finisher.


thanks to both of you for you highly helpful replies. I thought for
sure someone would help. I thought of you two in particular. sigh And
no, WHITE oak is NOT darker than red. At least not the wood i have here.

Simply put, and no disrespect or snideness intended, if you have to ask
the question, my reply is possibly, and infinitely, more "helpful" than
you now realize?

You may have some luck staining close to the color, then using a toner
in the top coat to match the rest of the floor, but if you had to ask
the question it is obvious you do not have either the expertise, or the
equipment, to make that work satisfactorily, at least without much trial
and error, and possible ruination of surrounding areas.

The only thing left to tell you, if you decide to do it yourself, is to
practice on some scrap ...


i suppose my initial knee jerk reaction was harsh. AND i suppose i
didn't make myself totally clear. The wood i'm trying to match is not
right next to the new. Actually, it's not even in the same room. The
white oak floor is all brand new, i just laid it last tuesday. I have
the red oak stairs i made from rough lumber myself 3 months ago around
the corner in the next room. THAT room will get red oak flooring,
because i'm going to take what i have back and buy red. Yes, it was my
mistake buying the white. I didn't really even pay attention until i
had about half the room laid. And no, I don't have the color mixing
expertise, but i do have a LOT of scrap and unused flooring to
experiment with.

thanks


--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 7/7/2012 8:42 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
That's strange, all the white oak I have is darker than red oak.
How did you manage that?



On 7/7/2012 9:23 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 7/7/2012 8:18 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/6/2012 10:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
Anyone got any suggestions as to how to come
close to making this white oak look like the red?

Professional floor finisher.


thanks to both of you for you highly helpful replies. I thought for
sure someone would help. I thought of you two in particular. sigh And
no, WHITE oak is NOT darker than red. At least not the wood i have here.



After further inspection of MOST the pieces, and getting out some of the
unfinished red, yes, I do see that the white is browner than the red.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 7/7/2012 9:19 AM, dpb wrote:
On 7/6/2012 10:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
Got some white oak flooring laid, now need to make it match some
existing red oak i have already. The red oak has been finished with BLO,
and 4 coats of shellac, and one coat of waxless shellac. (in case i
wanted to poly later). Anyone got any suggestions as to how to come
close to making this white oak look like the red? I realize the grain
structure is completely different.

Well, it's never going to look "like" the red because of the difference
in ray characteristics and the more porous grain structure of red vis a
vis white (unless you use something on it that just essentially hides
the grain/pattern entirely, anyway).

As Swing says, take some representative samples and starting working on
finding coloring that at least comes close is about the only choice;
particularly since you've already finished one so can't adjust both
towards a common.

Why, may I ask, didn't you just get some red oak to start with if the
idea was to match--it's far more commonly available in flooring anyway...

--

Please see my reply to Tired of spam.


--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 08:18:06 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 7/6/2012 10:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
Anyone got any suggestions as to how to come
close to making this white oak look like the red?

Professional floor finisher.

Right. If he knowingly did that, he deserves to pay. bseg

--
Truth loves to go naked.
--Dr. Thomas Fuller, Gnomologia, 1732

On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 11:06:30 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 7/7/2012 8:39 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/7/2012 8:23 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 7/7/2012 8:18 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/6/2012 10:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
Anyone got any suggestions as to how to come
close to making this white oak look like the red?

Professional floor finisher.


thanks to both of you for you highly helpful replies. I thought for
sure someone would help. I thought of you two in particular. sigh And
no, WHITE oak is NOT darker than red. At least not the wood i have here.

Simply put, and no disrespect or snideness intended, if you have to ask
the question, my reply is possibly, and infinitely, more "helpful" than
you now realize?

You may have some luck staining close to the color, then using a toner
in the top coat to match the rest of the floor, but if you had to ask
the question it is obvious you do not have either the expertise, or the
equipment, to make that work satisfactorily, at least without much trial
and error, and possible ruination of surrounding areas.

The only thing left to tell you, if you decide to do it yourself, is to
practice on some scrap ...


i suppose my initial knee jerk reaction was harsh. AND i suppose i
didn't make myself totally clear. The wood i'm trying to match is not
right next to the new. Actually, it's not even in the same room.

That info would make a lot of difference in how people reply, Steve.

Practice on a scrap, let it dry, and hold it next to the red. Adjust
as necessary then use that blend on the new floor.

--
Truth loves to go naked.
--Dr. Thomas Fuller, Gnomologia, 1732

Swingman wrote:
On 7/7/2012 9:42 AM, Swingman wrote:

I don't know this for a fact, but I always thought that white oak was
named because parts of its bark turns white in the woods. I can
generally spot a white oak from a distance by the lightness of the
edges of its bark compared to other oak trees. Then again, that
might just be wishful thinking on my part, but it usually pans out
when I get close enough to see the leaves.


Perfect example ... this is a shot taken from the balcony of our
lakehouse looking out toward our dock on Lake Hamilton, in Hot
Springs, AR.
The large tree on the left is a white oak, guaranteed:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...40325868380146

Could very well be a "white" oak but it isn't Quercas alba.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

Swingman wrote:

I don't know this for a fact, but I always thought that white oak was
named because parts of its bark turns white in the woods. I can
generally spot a white oak from a distance by the lightness of the
edges of its bark compared to other oak trees.

"White" oak is usually wood from any of numerous species. Ditto "red" oak.

Some of them may well have bark that turns white but I guarantee that the
quintessential one - live oak, Quercus alba - does not.

Sapwood from "white" oak is pretty light; heart wood is much darker.

http://www.wood-database.com/wood-ar...rom-white-oak/

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 7/7/2012 12:24 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 7/7/2012 9:42 AM, Swingman wrote:

I don't know this for a fact, but I always thought that white oak was
named because parts of its bark turns white in the woods. I can
generally spot a white oak from a distance by the lightness of the
edges of its bark compared to other oak trees. Then again, that
might just be wishful thinking on my part, but it usually pans out
when I get close enough to see the leaves.


Perfect example ... this is a shot taken from the balcony of our
lakehouse looking out toward our dock on Lake Hamilton, in Hot
Springs, AR.
The large tree on the left is a white oak, guaranteed:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...40325868380146

Could very well be a "white" oak but it isn't Quercas alba.

Before posting googled knowledge, you might want to both learn how to
spell what you're talking about, and to recognize the bark of the tree
when you see it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wh...ark_3264px.jpg

https://www.google.com/search?q=Whit...=2304&bih=1338

Nuff said ....

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 07:16:48 -0400, tiredofspam wrote:

You want to use DEWaxed on furniture and floors. I use waxed shellac on
utility items for the shop. It allows the glue to come off a little
easier and is cheaper.

That's the first good reason I've seen for using shellac with wax. I'll
make good use of it. Thanks.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On 7/7/2012 10:40 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 7/7/12 9:54 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/7/2012 9:42 AM, Swingman wrote:

I don't know this for a fact, but I always thought that white oak was
named because parts of its bark turns white in the woods. I can
generally spot a white oak from a distance by the lightness of the edges
of its bark compared to other oak trees. Then again, that might just be
wishful thinking on my part, but it usually pans out when I get close
enough to see the leaves.


Perfect example ... this is a shot taken from the balcony of our
lakehouse looking out toward our dock on Lake Hamilton, in Hot Springs, AR.

The large tree on the left is a white oak, guaranteed:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...40325868380146



Learn something new every day.
Looks like we have a bunch of white oak behind our house.

Check the leaves. If the lobes have rounded tips it's a white oak. If the
lobes have pointy tips, it's red.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 7/7/2012 9:42 AM, Swingman wrote:
....

... some solution that my grandfather would use
to paint the end of a stripped oak log that he could look at to tell
which was which.

Being a youngster at the time, I just assumed it was some kind of magic.

No, nothing magic, but "better living through chemistry" ....

It's a solution of sodium nitrite--see about halfways down the following
page:

http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/distinguishing-red-oak-from-white-oak/

--

On 7/7/2012 1:56 PM, dpb wrote:
On 7/7/2012 9:42 AM, Swingman wrote:
...

... some solution that my grandfather would use
to paint the end of a stripped oak log that he could look at to tell
which was which.

Being a youngster at the time, I just assumed it was some kind of
magic.

No, nothing magic, but "better living through chemistry" ....

It's a solution of sodium nitrite--see about halfways down the following
page:

http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/distinguishing-red-oak-from-white-oak/

Well I'll be damned ... my maternal grandfather was a hardware store
owner, sawmill owner/operator, and a woodworker. He cut and milled the
wood, off his land, to both build his house, and to furnish it. I spent
many summers on his farm with him as youngster, some of it on one end of
a two man crosscut saw. I learned how to use a handsaw to saw straight;
recognize different trees; how to fell one where you wanted it to fall;
and "helped" him make furniture in his shop.

I also learned where, and in which tree stump in the woods, he hid is
bottles of wine.

I distinctly remember him using a paint brush to dab something, out of a
used cane syrup can, on the butt end of a tree prior to milling it to
"tell if it was white oak", which he used for furniture.

Out of that experience, came this story I posted here almost ten years back:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...ng/iedoLLkb2hM

The old man was pretty damn smart, read a lot, and had a lot of tricks
up his sleeve.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 7/7/2012 2:33 PM, Swingman wrote:
....

I distinctly remember him using a paint brush to dab something, out of a
used cane syrup can, on the butt end of a tree prior to milling it to
"tell if it was white oak", which he used for furniture.

Out of that experience, came this story I posted here almost ten years
back:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...ng/iedoLLkb2hM


The old man was pretty damn smart, read a lot, and had a lot of tricks
up his sleeve.

The ol' timers generally were...took a lot more self-doing back then
than generally needed these days. I (along w/ probably almost all of at
least the regulars here) undoubtedly could tell similar tales of
parents/grand-/greatgrand-parents.

Unfortunately, your link goes to a login page so I'm unaware of the
particulars of which you tell...

--

On 7/7/2012 2:40 PM, dpb wrote:
On 7/7/2012 2:33 PM, Swingman wrote:
...

I distinctly remember him using a paint brush to dab something, out of a
used cane syrup can, on the butt end of a tree prior to milling it to
"tell if it was white oak", which he used for furniture.

Out of that experience, came this story I posted here almost ten years
back:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...ng/iedoLLkb2hM



The old man was pretty damn smart, read a lot, and had a lot of tricks
up his sleeve.

The ol' timers generally were...took a lot more self-doing back then
than generally needed these days. I (along w/ probably almost all of at
least the regulars here) undoubtedly could tell similar tales of
parents/grand-/greatgrand-parents.

Unfortunately, your link goes to a login page so I'm unaware of the
particulars of which you tell...


Hmmmm ... found it by a google groups search and you have to login??

Since G+, there ain't no telling what Google has up their sleeve these
days, except a marked propensity to screw up the Internet at their whim.
Here, in toto:

quote
A Gloat of Magical Proportions
Written on Mother's Day 2003

I have always known that my grandfather made furniture, one of his hand
saws hangs in my shop today, and I remember my times with him well. I
distinctly remember him showing me how to guide, with precision, the
initial backstroke cut of a hand saw with my six year old thumb some 54
years ago - possibly the same saw that hangs on the wall. I also vividly
recall emulating his every move in the shop, including the unconscious,
but somehow manly to me in those young years, act of wiping the beads of
perspiration off his brow with the blade of a carpenter's folding rule,
kept handy in a front top pocket of his overalls.

Considering my enduring passion for making things of wood, those are
indeed treasured memories. But, as of this very afternoon, they are much
more than just a past .. they have a present meaning, and hopefully a
future.

I have always had a decided liking for the Arts and Crafts style of
furniture and, here lately, a strong, almost puzzling on retrospect,
desire to make as many pieces, with the very species of wood that
defined the style, that I can. I currently have an end table, a lamp, a
coffee table, and two hall tables in various stages of construction and
planning, all in the A & C style, and all with quartersawn white oak as
the primary wood, causing my wife to raise her eyebrows in question more
than a time or two.

I may now be a bit closer to understanding this strange itch, and the
scratching that has resulted in the sudden proliferation of A & C shaped
bits and pieces of quarter sawn white oak in the shop.

Today, while visiting one of my sisters in honor of Mother's Day, a
sister whom I rarely see, I remarked on a beautiful, Arts & Crafts
settee (much like a Morris chair in appearance, but made for seating
two) in her bedroom. Our 81 year old mother, the honoree of the
occasion, who just happened to be within ear shot, responded with the
astounding, to me, remark:

"Your grandfather made that before I was born, and I first learned to
stand up holding onto it as a baby."

You could have knocked me over with the proverbial feather. I had not
the slightest idea there was any of my grandfather's furniture left on
the face of the earth (save one old bookcase I have made of pecan that
was not notable for its style) for he died some 43 years ago, and the
old farm house, which he built with logs he sawmilled himself off his
own land, was long ago moved to the city and remodeled by one of my
cousins who was closer to the action when it counted than her
globetrotting relative.

Lo and behold, in addition to the settee, my sister also has an end
table and a desk chair, all of quarter sawn white oak, and all in the A
& C style, made by my grandfather almost 100 years ago.

The gloat? It is impossible to describe the feeling of handling these
pieces and inspecting the tool marks, the joinery, the workmanship, and
the obvious care that went into each of these pieces made by the hands
of a being that was also responsible for mine. The old wood is
beautifully quarter sawn and milled by hand, with the medullary flecks
as prominent under the finish as the pieces in my shop today. The old
man knew his stuff ... some of the joints are a bit loose with age, but
all the pieces are serviceable and still hold up to daily use.

Some might see it as more gloatworthy to be in current possession of
these items, but, strange as it may seem, I have no desire whatsoever to
own these pieces, likely much to my sister's relief. It was a treat
beyond understanding to just touch them and to know that they exist. I
did tell her that I would be glad to repair any future damage, and maybe
re-glue a joint or two ... an honor, and homage of sorts, paid from one
woodworker to another.

I left this afternoon with the understanding that I will make no claim
on them, but will photograph, measure, make note of the design elements
and attempt to reproduce them in faithful detail.

For it seems, and for sometime now, all I've really wanted to do was to
make them all again myself, just like my grandfather did.

/quote

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 13:24:45 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Swingman wrote:

I don't know this for a fact, but I always thought that white oak was
named because parts of its bark turns white in the woods. I can
generally spot a white oak from a distance by the lightness of the
edges of its bark compared to other oak trees.

"White" oak is usually wood from any of numerous species. Ditto "red" oak.

Some of them may well have bark that turns white but I guarantee that the
quintessential one - live oak, Quercus alba - does not.

Live oak is Q. Virginiana, not Q. alba. We had a park full of them in
Fallbrook, close to Vista, CA, and they're totally different trees.

Live oaks were considerably smaller and branchy (more shrublike) while
white oaks were taller and more treelike, at least in LoCal, where the
weather is always nice.


Sapwood from "white" oak is pretty light; heart wood is much darker.

http://www.wood-database.com/wood-ar...rom-white-oak/

--
Truth loves to go naked.
--Dr. Thomas Fuller, Gnomologia, 1732

In article , Larry Jaques
wrote:

Practice on a scrap, let it dry, and hold it next to the red. Adjust
as necessary then use that blend on the new floor.

When I'm testing stains I like to use tape to divvy up the scrap. That
lets me easily apply a varying number of coats. Everything gets one,
then one is left alone and the others get two, etc.

I make notes on the back of the scrap for future reference.

--
"I'll do the stupid thing first and then you shy people follow..." - Frank Zappa

On 7/7/2012 11:08 AM, Steve Barker wrote:

VERY long day, so very long story short:

Spoke to the gal in the flooring dept at HD, she assured me they do NOT
sell white oak flooring. Sooooooooo, Got the managers name, went up in
person with the unused portion (16 out of 27 bundles) and he not only
agreed, they should never have had a pallet of white oak in the store,
but he gave me credit for all 27 bundles, PLUS a 30% discount on a nice
new Bostitch floor stapler. Took a while to jump through all the hoops,
as they only had 9 bundles of red in stock as opposed to the 94 they
showed on the computer. Had to stop by the other store on the way home
for the balance. Good news: No more money spent 'cept the nail gun,
and Bad news: I have to rip up a 12x15 room full of 2 1/4" flooring. G
But it'll be the way we want it in the end. We've only been working
on this house 6 years as it is. By the time we got headed for the
store, my wife and I had already agreed we'd tear it out even if we had
to buy it again. Live and learn. Read labels, double and triple check
what they bring to the door.

Thanks for all the input.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Larry Jaques wrote:

Live oak is Q. Virginiana, not Q. alba. We had a park full of them in
Fallbrook, close to Vista, CA, and they're totally different trees.

Right you are.

Live oaks were considerably smaller and branchy (more shrublike) while
white oaks were taller and more treelike, at least in LoCal, where the
weather is always nice.

True in California maybe, not in the south. The southern live oaks are
quite large particularly in spread. I have 30+ on my property...the largest
is more than 5' in diameter at 4' from the ground; it is maybe 50' high,
more then twice that in spread.

Very messy trees too. If they aren't dropping leaves, blossoms or acorns
they are dropping twigs. Thousands and thousands of twigs, all year long.
Sometimes a house crusher branch as well.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 08:22:23 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Live oak is Q. Virginiana, not Q. alba. We had a park full of them in
Fallbrook, close to Vista, CA, and they're totally different trees.

Right you are.

Live oaks were considerably smaller and branchy (more shrublike) while
white oaks were taller and more treelike, at least in LoCal, where the
weather is always nice.

True in California maybe, not in the south. The southern live oaks are
quite large particularly in spread. I have 30+ on my property...the largest
is more than 5' in diameter at 4' from the ground; it is maybe 50' high,
more then twice that in spread.

Those in CA were maybe 30' at the most, and I don't recall one more
than that wide.


Very messy trees too. If they aren't dropping leaves, blossoms or acorns
they are dropping twigs. Thousands and thousands of twigs, all year long.
Sometimes a house crusher branch as well.

A huge old black oak fell in a local yard recently. Looking at it
from 1/2 a block away, it was probably 6' in diameter. Luckily, it
fell onto the pasture fences, not the house. It must have yielded 20
cords of wood from the trunk alone. Another, maybe 3' in diameter,
fell in the pasture next to me and looks like about twelve cords of
wood as they cut it up and stacked it. Both broke at the ground
level, in the trunk near the roots. The odd thing is that both broke
within a month of each other less than 2 blocks apart. Each was a
different age.

--
Truth loves to go naked.
--Dr. Thomas Fuller, Gnomologia, 1732

On 7/8/2012 8:31 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 08:22:23 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Live oak is Q. Virginiana, not Q. alba. We had a park full of them in
Fallbrook, close to Vista, CA, and they're totally different trees.

Right you are.

Live oaks were considerably smaller and branchy (more shrublike) while
white oaks were taller and more treelike, at least in LoCal, where the
weather is always nice.

True in California maybe, not in the south. The southern live oaks are
quite large particularly in spread. I have 30+ on my property...the largest
is more than 5' in diameter at 4' from the ground; it is maybe 50' high,
more then twice that in spread.

Those in CA were maybe 30' at the most, and I don't recall one more
than that wide.


Very messy trees too. If they aren't dropping leaves, blossoms or acorns
they are dropping twigs. Thousands and thousands of twigs, all year long.
Sometimes a house crusher branch as well.

A huge old black oak fell in a local yard recently. Looking at it
from 1/2 a block away, it was probably 6' in diameter. Luckily, it
fell onto the pasture fences, not the house. It must have yielded 20
cords of wood from the trunk alone. Another, maybe 3' in diameter,
fell in the pasture next to me and looks like about twelve cords of
wood as they cut it up and stacked it. Both broke at the ground
level, in the trunk near the roots. The odd thing is that both broke
within a month of each other less than 2 blocks apart. Each was a
different age.


Every thing is bigger in Texas. ;~)
The Big Tree at Goose Island State Park, a Live Oak, is believed to be
over 1,000 years old. It has a circumference of 35 feet (11 m), is 44
feet (13 m) in height and has a crown spread of 90 feet (27 m). And
that measurement was taken 46 years ago.

http://www.texasescapes.com/TexasHis...Island-Oak.htm

On 7/8/2012 9:31 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

A huge old black oak fell in a local yard recently. Looking at it
from 1/2 a block away, it was probably 6' in diameter. Luckily, it
fell onto the pasture fences, not the house. It must have yielded 20
cords of wood from the trunk alone. Another, maybe 3' in diameter,
fell in the pasture next to me and looks like about twelve cords of
wood as they cut it up and stacked it. Both broke at the ground
level, in the trunk near the roots. The odd thing is that both broke
within a month of each other less than 2 blocks apart. Each was a
different age.

Many years ago my old aunt asked me to cut down two giant dead oaks out
of her yard. She had 18 giant oak trees, about 4 foot trunks, 60-80'
tall. I needed the fire wood so was happy to do it for her. Cut the
first one down, chopped it and hauled it away, told her I be back the
next weekend for the 2nd tree. Before the weekend, she called to tell
me the 2nd tree came down on it's own, all I had to do was cut the
sucker up. When I got there, the damned thing was hollow about the
first 15 feet with only a bit of sap wood holding up that giant tree.
DAMN was I glad I picked the other one to cut first...

Not sure what would have happened if I started cutting that hollow
sucker, but I'm pretty sure it would not have been good. To this day I
don't understand how that little bit of wood kept that giant tree up for
so long. From that day on, I always do a test cut on the big ones to
make sure the thing ain't holler!

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 7/8/2012 1:25 PM, Jack wrote:
On 7/8/2012 9:31 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

A huge old black oak fell in a local yard recently. Looking at it
from 1/2 a block away, it was probably 6' in diameter. Luckily, it
fell onto the pasture fences, not the house. It must have yielded 20
cords of wood from the trunk alone. Another, maybe 3' in diameter,
fell in the pasture next to me and looks like about twelve cords of
wood as they cut it up and stacked it. Both broke at the ground
level, in the trunk near the roots. The odd thing is that both broke
within a month of each other less than 2 blocks apart. Each was a
different age.

Many years ago my old aunt asked me to cut down two giant dead oaks out of her
yard. She had 18 giant oak trees, about 4 foot trunks, 60-80' tall. I needed
the fire wood so was happy to do it for her. Cut the first one down, chopped
it and hauled it away, told her I be back the next weekend for the 2nd tree.
Before the weekend, she called to tell me the 2nd tree came down on it's own,
all I had to do was cut the sucker up. When I got there, the damned thing was
hollow about the first 15 feet with only a bit of sap wood holding up that
giant tree. DAMN was I glad I picked the other one to cut first...

Not sure what would have happened if I started cutting that hollow sucker, but
I'm pretty sure it would not have been good. To this day I don't understand
how that little bit of wood kept that giant tree up for so long. From that day
on, I always do a test cut on the big ones to make sure the thing ain't holler!

I'd bet money that was some variety of red oak, probably a "black oak". My
father has a bunch of oaks on his property (he lives in central Missouri on
about 10 acres) and every year he has at least one black oak tree coming down
of its own accord due to rot going up the center of the trunk, and he has
preemptively taken down many more to avoid dangerous surprises. Meanwhile, he
has nearly as many white oaks and not a single one of those has had the same
problem.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 7/8/12 2:08 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 7/8/2012 1:25 PM, Jack wrote:
On 7/8/2012 9:31 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

A huge old black oak fell in a local yard recently. Looking at it
from 1/2 a block away, it was probably 6' in diameter. Luckily, it
fell onto the pasture fences, not the house. It must have yielded 20
cords of wood from the trunk alone. Another, maybe 3' in diameter,
fell in the pasture next to me and looks like about twelve cords of
wood as they cut it up and stacked it. Both broke at the ground
level, in the trunk near the roots. The odd thing is that both broke
within a month of each other less than 2 blocks apart. Each was a
different age.

Many years ago my old aunt asked me to cut down two giant dead oaks
out of her
yard. She had 18 giant oak trees, about 4 foot trunks, 60-80' tall.
I needed
the fire wood so was happy to do it for her. Cut the first one down,
chopped
it and hauled it away, told her I be back the next weekend for the 2nd
tree.
Before the weekend, she called to tell me the 2nd tree came down on
it's own,
all I had to do was cut the sucker up. When I got there, the damned
thing was
hollow about the first 15 feet with only a bit of sap wood holding up
that
giant tree. DAMN was I glad I picked the other one to cut first...

Not sure what would have happened if I started cutting that hollow
sucker, but
I'm pretty sure it would not have been good. To this day I don't
understand
how that little bit of wood kept that giant tree up for so long. From
that day
on, I always do a test cut on the big ones to make sure the thing
ain't holler!

I'd bet money that was some variety of red oak, probably a "black oak".
My father has a bunch of oaks on his property (he lives in central
Missouri on about 10 acres) and every year he has at least one black oak
tree coming down of its own accord due to rot going up the center of the
trunk, and he has preemptively taken down many more to avoid dangerous
surprises. Meanwhile, he has nearly as many white oaks and not a single
one of those has had the same problem.


racist. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Leon wrote:

Every thing is bigger in Texas. ;~)
The Big Tree at Goose Island State Park, a Live Oak, is believed to be
over 1,000 years old. It has a circumference of 35 feet (11 m), is
44 feet (13 m) in height and has a crown spread of 90 feet (27 m). And
that measurement was taken 46 years ago.

http://www.texasescapes.com/TexasHis...Island-Oak.htm

That was an interesting page.

I've always wondered how old ours are. One would guess a couple of hundred
years but the growth rate varies very much. We have a new one that was half
knee high in the summer of 2000; it is now about a foot in diameter and
maybe 20' high. There is another one that was half knee high in 2001; it is
only 3-4" in diameter. The two get the same rain, about the same sun and
are only 60-70 yards away from each other.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 7/8/2012 3:08 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 7/8/2012 1:25 PM, Jack wrote:
On 7/8/2012 9:31 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

A huge old black oak fell in a local yard recently. Looking at it
from 1/2 a block away, it was probably 6' in diameter. Luckily, it
fell onto the pasture fences, not the house. It must have yielded 20
cords of wood from the trunk alone. Another, maybe 3' in diameter,
fell in the pasture next to me and looks like about twelve cords of
wood as they cut it up and stacked it. Both broke at the ground
level, in the trunk near the roots. The odd thing is that both broke
within a month of each other less than 2 blocks apart. Each was a
different age.

Many years ago my old aunt asked me to cut down two giant dead oaks
out of her
yard. She had 18 giant oak trees, about 4 foot trunks, 60-80' tall. I
needed
the fire wood so was happy to do it for her. Cut the first one down,
chopped
it and hauled it away, told her I be back the next weekend for the 2nd
tree.
Before the weekend, she called to tell me the 2nd tree came down on
it's own,
all I had to do was cut the sucker up. When I got there, the damned
thing was
hollow about the first 15 feet with only a bit of sap wood holding up
that
giant tree. DAMN was I glad I picked the other one to cut first...

Not sure what would have happened if I started cutting that hollow
sucker, but
I'm pretty sure it would not have been good. To this day I don't
understand
how that little bit of wood kept that giant tree up for so long. From
that day
on, I always do a test cut on the big ones to make sure the thing
ain't holler!

I'd bet money that was some variety of red oak, probably a "black oak".
My father has a bunch of oaks on his property (he lives in central
Missouri on about 10 acres) and every year he has at least one black oak
tree coming down of its own accord due to rot going up the center of the
trunk, and he has preemptively taken down many more to avoid dangerous
surprises. Meanwhile, he has nearly as many white oaks and not a single
one of those has had the same problem.

I think they were some sort of red oak, the wood was, as I recall, quite
red, redder than any red oak I've seen. It was beautiful wood though.
I now have two 70' pin oaks in my front yard, close to the house. I
guess they are around 50 years old, and pin oak I believe are one of the
zillion (20?) species of red oak, and they grow fast, die fast I guess.
I worry occasionally about them falling on my house, but as long as
they don't kill anyone, I reckon my insurance company should worry more.:-)

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 7/8/2012 9:19 PM, Jack wrote:
On 7/8/2012 3:08 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
On 7/8/2012 1:25 PM, Jack wrote:
On 7/8/2012 9:31 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

A huge old black oak fell in a local yard recently. Looking at it
from 1/2 a block away, it was probably 6' in diameter. Luckily, it
fell onto the pasture fences, not the house. It must have yielded 20
cords of wood from the trunk alone. Another, maybe 3' in diameter,
fell in the pasture next to me and looks like about twelve cords of
wood as they cut it up and stacked it. Both broke at the ground
level, in the trunk near the roots. The odd thing is that both broke
within a month of each other less than 2 blocks apart. Each was a
different age.

Many years ago my old aunt asked me to cut down two giant dead oaks
out of her
yard. She had 18 giant oak trees, about 4 foot trunks, 60-80' tall. I
needed
the fire wood so was happy to do it for her. Cut the first one down,
chopped
it and hauled it away, told her I be back the next weekend for the 2nd
tree.
Before the weekend, she called to tell me the 2nd tree came down on
it's own,
all I had to do was cut the sucker up. When I got there, the damned
thing was
hollow about the first 15 feet with only a bit of sap wood holding up
that
giant tree. DAMN was I glad I picked the other one to cut first...

Not sure what would have happened if I started cutting that hollow
sucker, but
I'm pretty sure it would not have been good. To this day I don't
understand
how that little bit of wood kept that giant tree up for so long. From
that day
on, I always do a test cut on the big ones to make sure the thing
ain't holler!

I'd bet money that was some variety of red oak, probably a "black oak".
My father has a bunch of oaks on his property (he lives in central
Missouri on about 10 acres) and every year he has at least one black oak
tree coming down of its own accord due to rot going up the center of the
trunk, and he has preemptively taken down many more to avoid dangerous
surprises. Meanwhile, he has nearly as many white oaks and not a single
one of those has had the same problem.

I think they were some sort of red oak, the wood was, as I recall, quite red,
redder than any red oak I've seen. It was beautiful wood though. I now have
two 70' pin oaks in my front yard, close to the house. I guess they are around
50 years old, and pin oak I believe are one of the zillion (20?) species of red
oak, and they grow fast, die fast I guess. I worry occasionally about them
falling on my house, but as long as they don't kill anyone, I reckon my
insurance company should worry more.:-)

My friend's mom had a pin oak come down on her house. BIG mess, but we got
lots of firewood out of the deal.
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/