On Topic!

It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with a
hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".

I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like my
(17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is in
fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.

As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the blind", I'm
open to suggestions, but a couple of initial questions come to mind:

Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own? How should I hold
it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points", if that's
the right term.

I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws, even
perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?

Thanks in advance.

No pocket screws for the door. It won't be strong enough for constant
use that a teenager will put it through.

Either coped or M&T..

___You don't need a backing for the mirror___ but it is a good idea. If
she were to stick something in that fell over and closed the door a
little harder, and it happened to be in the middle it could break the
glass. Unlikely but could.. With a clear piece of glass you would see
the fallen object, with a mirror maybe not. Depends on how mature she is...

You could simply silicone the mirror in after finishing the project, not
before. If you back it with wood you could use the silicone for the
mirror in spots then points (for pictures and glass mounted on wood)
for the backing. You use a screw driver to drive the points into the
wood. The easiest method.

Having her build it would be great. I think every kid needs to learn
something like this. What do you think you will use for shelves?
Wood, glass? Adjustable?

On 6/14/2012 10:28 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On Topic!

It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with a
hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".

I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like my
(17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is in
fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.

As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the blind", I'm
open to suggestions, but a couple of initial questions come to mind:

Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own? How should I hold
it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points", if that's
the right term.

I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws, even
perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?

Thanks in advance.

Greg, here are the points that I am referring to.
http://tinyurl.com/7kmhukq


You could simply silicone the mirror in after finishing the project, not
before. If you back it with wood you could use the silicone for the
mirror in spots then points (for pictures and glass mounted on wood) for
the backing. You use a screw driver to drive the points into the wood.
The easiest method.

On 6/14/12 9:28 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On Topic!

It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with a
hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".

I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like my
(17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is in
fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.


I just built one of these and it is indeed a really simple woodworking
project.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LQ5LO8Gml3TdhSlEj8PDP9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=d irectlink

As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the blind", I'm
open to suggestions, but a couple of initial questions come to mind:

Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own?

You absolutely want a backer. Most mirrors (probably all sold at glass
stores) will already have one applied. If you're recycling an old
mirror that does not, it could be as simple as some thick contact paper.
Don't listen to anyone who says you don't need it. Of course you
don't "need" it... you don't "need" seat belts either. :-)


How should I hold
it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points", if that's
the right term.


I recycled some mirror holding clips from an old framed mirror. They
were simple pieces of hardened spring metal held on by small screws.
There are a million different mirror clips out there.


I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws, even
perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?

Thanks in advance.

Pocket screws are very strong, but I usually glue the joint if I know
it's going to be permanent. Pocket holes are a great way to clamp a
joint if you don't have a lot of clamps. For the box on my cabinet, I
used simple rabbet/dado joint.
http://www.timberframe-tools.com/ref...ges/266-26.png

Pocket holes/glue could work for the door as well. If you decide on
mitered corner joints, cut the recess/rabbet for the mirror in the stock
before you cut it into the tops and sides. For square corner joints,
like rail & stile cabinet doors, you may not want to put in the recess
until after you cut the pieces, because they will be stopped on two pieces.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 6/14/12 9:43 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
Greg, here are the points that I am referring to.
http://tinyurl.com/7kmhukq


You could simply silicone the mirror in after finishing the project, not
before. If you back it with wood you could use the silicone for the
mirror in spots then points (for pictures and glass mounted on wood) for
the backing. You use a screw driver to drive the points into the wood.
The easiest method.

Those points are made to hold glass underneath glazing. They aren't
designed for screws. There a a bazillion other mirror clips designed for
screws that would be much easier and hold better.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 6/14/2012 10:29 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/14/12 9:28 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On Topic!

It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with a
hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".

I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like my
(17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is in
fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.


I just built one of these and it is indeed a really simple woodworking
project.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LQ5LO8Gml3TdhSlEj8PDP9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=d irectlink


Beautifully done on all counts, Mike.

As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the blind", I'm
open to suggestions, but a couple of initial questions come to mind:

Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own?

You absolutely want a backer. Most mirrors (probably all sold at glass
stores) will already have one applied. If you're recycling an old
mirror that does not, it could be as simple as some thick contact paper.
Don't listen to anyone who says you don't need it. Of course you
don't "need" it... you don't "need" seat belts either. :-)


How should I hold
it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points", if that's
the right term.


I recycled some mirror holding clips from an old framed mirror. They
were simple pieces of hardened spring metal held on by small screws.
There are a million different mirror clips out there.


I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws, even
perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?

Thanks in advance.

Pocket screws are very strong, but I usually glue the joint if I know
it's going to be permanent. Pocket holes are a great way to clamp a
joint if you don't have a lot of clamps. For the box on my cabinet, I
used simple rabbet/dado joint.
http://www.timberframe-tools.com/ref...ges/266-26.png

Pocket holes/glue could work for the door as well. If you decide on
mitered corner joints, cut the recess/rabbet for the mirror in the stock
before you cut it into the tops and sides. For square corner joints,
like rail & stile cabinet doors, you may not want to put in the recess
until after you cut the pieces, because they will be stopped on two pieces.

What he said ...


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 6/14/2012 7:40 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
No pocket screws for the door. It won't be strong enough for constant
use that a teenager will put it through.

Either coped or M&T..

___You don't need a backing for the mirror___ but it is a good idea. If
she were to stick something in that fell over and closed the door a
little harder, and it happened to be in the middle it could break the
glass. Unlikely but could.. With a clear piece of glass you would see
the fallen object, with a mirror maybe not. Depends on how mature she is...

You could simply silicone the mirror in after finishing the project, not
before. If you back it with wood you could use the silicone for the
mirror in spots then points (for pictures and glass mounted on wood) for
the backing. You use a screw driver to drive the points into the wood.
The easiest method.

you can't use silicone on the back of mirror. it will eventually eat
through the paint and silvering. if you're going to glue mirror to
something, use mirror mastic instead. that's what it's designed for.

when i make stained glass panels with mirror in them, i use rubber
cement to glue craft paper (heavy shopping paper bags, if small enough)
to the back to protect against scratching through the paint and
silvering. i do like the contact paper idea further downthread. that
would prevent glass shards from spreading far if it broke in place.

Having her build it would be great. I think every kid needs to learn
something like this. What do you think you will use for shelves?
Wood, glass? Adjustable?

On 6/14/2012 10:28 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On Topic!

It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with a
hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".

I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like my
(17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is in
fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.

As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the blind", I'm
open to suggestions, but a couple of initial questions come to mind:

Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own? How should I hold
it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points", if that's
the right term.

I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws, even
perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?

Thanks in advance.

On 6/14/2012 10:40 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
What do you think you will use for shelves?
Wood, glass? Adjustable?

I'm not sure yet. I don't think they'll need to be adjustable though. If
I can stomach the extra complication, I may consider some sort of
external tray at the bottom - something with a lip, or possibly even
drilled holes (a "tool rack" if you will) to hold whatever primping
supplies are in use at the moment.

On 6/14/2012 9:28 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On Topic!

It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with a
hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".

I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like my
(17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is in
fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.

Seriously consider finding and buying the mirror first, then build the
project to the mirror. Usually cheaper in the long run, and a better fit.

It will be a cherished moment to build it with you daughter.

My youngest daughter and I did this one together in her sophomore year
in high school. It was her first design attempt and, ten years later and
after boomeranging back from college, and a couple of years on her own,
it is still her own bedside table:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/BedsideStand1.JPG

Good luck, and carry through with the joint father/daughter building of
the project, you will cherish the memory forever, guaranteed.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

The silicone was for the front rabbet.
And not all silicone is the same.

Some will eat electrical components and some are made for electrical
components... same deal with mirrors. Use one with out the acetic acid
smell and it will be fine.

Same with the push points, they were meant to back up the silicone to
the front bead. So if installed in the back they are just reinforcing
the silicone which is way strong.


You could simply silicone the mirror in after finishing the project, not
before. If you back it with wood you could use the silicone for the
mirror in spots then points (for pictures and glass mounted on wood) for
the backing. You use a screw driver to drive the points into the wood.
The easiest method.

you can't use silicone on the back of mirror. it will eventually eat
through the paint and silvering. if you're going to glue mirror to
something, use mirror mastic instead. that's what it's designed for.

On 6/14/2012 2:14 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 6/14/2012 9:28 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On Topic!

It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with a
hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".

I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like my
(17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is in
fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.

Seriously consider finding and buying the mirror first, then build the
project to the mirror. Usually cheaper in the long run, and a better fit.

Thanks. I'm a novice, but that's the way my mind works too.

It will be a cherished moment to build it with you daughter.

My youngest daughter and I did this one together in her sophomore year
in high school. It was her first design attempt and, ten years later and
after boomeranging back from college, and a couple of years on her own,
it is still her own bedside table:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/BedsideStand1.JPG

Looks great, but *I'd* probably need to be the "student" on a project
like that.

Good luck, and carry through with the joint father/daughter building of
the project, you will cherish the memory forever, guaranteed.

I think it's a great idea, and overdue as well, but exactly the kind of
thing that usually gets pushed aside by the demands of everyday life.
Your encouragement above is much appreciated. Maybe it will help keep
the idea on the front burner long enough to make it happen.

tiredofspam wrote:
The silicone was for the front rabbet.
And not all silicone is the same.

Some will eat electrical components and some are made for electrical
components... same deal with mirrors. Use one with out the acetic acid
smell and it will be fine.

Same with the push points, they were meant to back up the silicone to
the front bead. So if installed in the back they are just reinforcing
the silicone which is way strong.


Perhaps true, but time has proven that the simple insertion of points is all
that is necesary. You're not building to withstand an earthquake, so use
what the project requires.

--

-Mike-

-MIKE- wrote:


You absolutely want a backer. Most mirrors (probably all sold at
glass stores) will already have one applied. If you're recycling an
old mirror that does not, it could be as simple as some thick contact
paper. Don't listen to anyone who says you don't need it. Of course
you don't "need" it... you don't "need" seat belts either. :-)

Why do you say that Mike? I have seen tons of dressers and vanities that
have had unbacked mirrors, and they have held up just fine over decades.
Now you have me curious...


--

-Mike-

Greg Guarino wrote:
On Topic!

It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with
a hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".

I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like
my (17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is
in fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.

As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the blind",
I'm open to suggestions, but a couple of initial questions come to
mind:
Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own? How should I
hold it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points", if
that's the right term.

I don't know if you NEED a backer but I'd put one. Probably 1/8" lauan
("door skin"). I'd use 1/8" mirror too...set both into a 1/4" rabbet iin
the back of a mortise & tenon frame, hold them in place with thin wood
strips glued on. I'm suggesting the light, thin mirror in case the frame
joinery isn't quite up to snuff; you can get plastic mirror too...it is
light weight but scratches fairly easily.

I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws, even
perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?

OK for the box, not so good for door. If you use it for the door I'd
suggest 1/4" T&G for the frame members too.



--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 6/14/12 2:45 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:


You absolutely want a backer. Most mirrors (probably all sold at
glass stores) will already have one applied. If you're recycling an
old mirror that does not, it could be as simple as some thick contact
paper. Don't listen to anyone who says you don't need it. Of course
you don't "need" it... you don't "need" seat belts either. :-)

Why do you say that Mike? I have seen tons of dressers and vanities that
have had unbacked mirrors, and they have held up just fine over decades.
Now you have me curious...



It's not a matter of holding up. No backer will keep glass from breaking.
It's a matter of safely. If the mirror breaks, the backer holds it
together and keeps the sharp pieces from flying all over the place. Not
that one will likely injure you in the process of flying, but we're
talking about a room in which you spend most of your time barefoot. How
many times have you broken a glass in the kitchen, swept the entire floor
and still found stray pieces a week later?

But lets say you do slip and fall and put your hand up to catch yourself
and it goes into the mirror on the medicine cabinet. You are much less
likely to put your hand through the mirror with a good, adhered backer.

Sure, we all have had shower doors for years and years and they've never
broken... but man, just think if one did when you slipped in the shower.
Thank God those things are tempered glass. Heck, I might even consider
tempered glass for a moving mirror.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 6/14/2012 4:17 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On Topic!

It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with
a hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".

I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like
my (17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is
in fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.

As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the blind",
I'm open to suggestions, but a couple of initial questions come to
mind:
Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own? How should I
hold it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points", if
that's the right term.

I don't know if you NEED a backer but I'd put one. Probably 1/8" lauan
("door skin"). I'd use 1/8" mirror too...set both into a 1/4" rabbet iin
the back of a mortise& tenon frame, hold them in place with thin wood
strips glued on. I'm suggesting the light, thin mirror in case the frame
joinery isn't quite up to snuff; you can get plastic mirror too...it is
light weight but scratches fairly easily.

I appreciate the subtle hint that the door will need to be especially
precise to accept glass, especially as my skills are modest. But the
flatness of the mirror is probably non-negotiable. (I know my "client"
well) I believe I can lay my hands on a suitably-sized piece of old, but
never used, 1/4" glass mirror.

I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws, even
perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?

OK for the box, not so good for door. If you use it for the door I'd
suggest 1/4" T&G for the frame members too.

I'm trying to imagine how that would work. Are you suggesting putting
the glass in the groove?

On 6/14/12 3:17 PM, dadiOH wrote:
I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws, even
perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?
OK for the box, not so good for door. If you use it for the door I'd
suggest 1/4" T&G for the frame members too.

Mine is 1/4" glass and I used pocket screws with glue. Granted, you're
probably talking about just pocket screws, which is a different animal.
But in either case, I would argue properly sized pocket screws are
plenty strong enough.




--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 6/14/2012 2:08 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/14/12 2:45 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:


You absolutely want a backer. Most mirrors (probably all sold at
glass stores) will already have one applied. If you're recycling an
old mirror that does not, it could be as simple as some thick contact
paper. Don't listen to anyone who says you don't need it. Of course
you don't "need" it... you don't "need" seat belts either. :-)

Why do you say that Mike? I have seen tons of dressers and vanities that
have had unbacked mirrors, and they have held up just fine over decades.
Now you have me curious...



It's not a matter of holding up. No backer will keep glass from breaking.
It's a matter of safely. If the mirror breaks, the backer holds it
together and keeps the sharp pieces from flying all over the place. Not
that one will likely injure you in the process of flying, but we're
talking about a room in which you spend most of your time barefoot. How
many times have you broken a glass in the kitchen, swept the entire floor
and still found stray pieces a week later?

But lets say you do slip and fall and put your hand up to catch yourself
and it goes into the mirror on the medicine cabinet. You are much less
likely to put your hand through the mirror with a good, adhered backer.

Sure, we all have had shower doors for years and years and they've never
broken... but man, just think if one did when you slipped in the shower.
Thank God those things are tempered glass. Heck, I might even consider
tempered glass for a moving mirror.

tempered shower doors can spontaneously deconstruct with no warning nor
any sudden hit. frequently no one is in the room when they go off.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2012/06/13/dnt-iowa-exploding-shower-glass-door.kcci?iref=allsearch

On 6/14/12 4:41 PM, chaniarts wrote:
tempered shower doors can spontaneously deconstruct with no warning nor
any sudden hit. frequently no one is in the room when they go off.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2012/06/13/dnt-iowa-exploding-shower-glass-door.kcci?iref=allsearch


Yes, and who got hurt? Oh that's right, nobody. :-)
And if someone did get hurt when this 1 in 10 million occurrence
happened, a band aid or a couple stitches probably took care of it. If
shower doors were not tempered, we'd likely see several deaths a year.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:

It's not a matter of holding up. No backer will keep glass from
breaking. It's a matter of safely. If the mirror breaks, the backer
holds it together and keeps the sharp pieces from flying all over the
place. Not that one will likely injure you in the process of flying,
but we're talking about a room in which you spend most of your time
barefoot. How many times have you broken a glass in the kitchen,
swept the entire floor and still found stray pieces a week later?

But lets say you do slip and fall and put your hand up to catch
yourself and it goes into the mirror on the medicine cabinet. You are
much less likely to put your hand through the mirror with a good,
adhered backer.
Sure, we all have had shower doors for years and years and they've
never broken... but man, just think if one did when you slipped in
the shower. Thank God those things are tempered glass. Heck, I might
even consider tempered glass for a moving mirror.

Ok - I understand where you are coming from. Thx...

--

-Mike-

dadiOH wrote:


I don't know if you NEED a backer but I'd put one. Probably 1/8"
lauan ("door skin"). I'd use 1/8" mirror too...set both into a 1/4"
rabbet iin the back of a mortise & tenon frame, hold them in place
with thin wood strips glued on. I'm suggesting the light, thin
mirror in case the frame joinery isn't quite up to snuff; you can get
plastic mirror too...it is light weight but scratches fairly easily.

I would not do the wood strips. If you ever need to remove that mirror for
any reason down the road, you stand a better chance of breaking it, just
trying to get the glued in wood strips out. One can over engineer a simple
project. M&T framing is a design choice. Much more simple joinery would
work just as well. Perhaps you were just expressing your preference?

--

-Mike-

-MIKE- wrote:
On 6/14/12 3:17 PM, dadiOH wrote:
I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws,
even perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?
OK for the box, not so good for door. If you use it for the door I'd
suggest 1/4" T&G for the frame members too.

Mine is 1/4" glass and I used pocket screws with glue. Granted, you're
probably talking about just pocket screws, which is a different
animal. But in either case, I would argue properly sized pocket
screws are plenty strong enough.

Agreed. Properly glued joints would even be strong enough, but I too prefer
some sort of additional mechanical joint. M&T could be fine, as has been
suggested, pocket screws, bisquits, etc.

--

-Mike-

On 6/14/12 10:18 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 6/14/12 3:17 PM, dadiOH wrote:
I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws,
even perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?
OK for the box, not so good for door. If you use it for the door I'd
suggest 1/4" T&G for the frame members too.

Mine is 1/4" glass and I used pocket screws with glue. Granted, you're
probably talking about just pocket screws, which is a different
animal. But in either case, I would argue properly sized pocket
screws are plenty strong enough.

Agreed. Properly glued joints would even be strong enough, but I too prefer
some sort of additional mechanical joint. M&T could be fine, as has been
suggested, pocket screws, bisquits, etc.


What I love about pocket screws is not having to wait for glue to dry.
If you use glue, as well, the screws are integrated clamps. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Greg Guarino wrote:
On 6/14/2012 4:17 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On Topic!

It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room.
I envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia)
with a hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror
where the panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".

I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd
like my (17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building.
That is in fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.

As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the blind",
I'm open to suggestions, but a couple of initial questions come to
mind:
Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own? How should I
hold it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points",
if that's the right term.

I don't know if you NEED a backer but I'd put one. Probably 1/8"
lauan ("door skin"). I'd use 1/8" mirror too...set both into a 1/4"
rabbet iin the back of a mortise& tenon frame, hold them in place
with thin wood strips glued on. I'm suggesting the light, thin
mirror in case the frame joinery isn't quite up to snuff; you can
get plastic mirror too...it is light weight but scratches fairly
easily.

I appreciate the subtle hint that the door will need to be especially
precise to accept glass, especially as my skills are modest. But the
flatness of the mirror is probably non-negotiable. (I know my "client"
well) I believe I can lay my hands on a suitably-sized piece of old,
but never used, 1/4" glass mirror.

I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws,
even perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?

OK for the box, not so good for door. If you use it for the door I'd
suggest 1/4" T&G for the frame members too.

I'm trying to imagine how that would work. Are you suggesting putting
the glass in the groove?

No, I was thinking of T&G just where the rails & stiles meet. I guess you
could go full out on them and put the glass in. Just don't ever break it


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Jun 15, 8:37*am, "dadiOH" wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On 6/14/2012 4:17 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On Topic!

It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room.
I envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia)
with a hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror
where the panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".

I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd
like my (17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building.
That is in fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.

As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the blind",
I'm open to suggestions, but a couple of initial questions come to
mind:
Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own? How should I
hold it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points",
if that's the right term.

I don't know if you NEED a backer but I'd put one. *Probably 1/8"
lauan ("door skin"). *I'd use 1/8" mirror too...set both into a 1/4"
rabbet iin the back of a mortise& *tenon frame, hold them in place
with thin wood strips glued on. *I'm suggesting the light, thin
mirror in case the frame joinery isn't quite up to snuff; you can
get plastic mirror too...it is light weight but scratches fairly
easily.

I appreciate the subtle hint that the door will need to be especially
precise to accept glass, especially as my skills are modest. But the
flatness of the mirror is probably non-negotiable. (I know my "client"
well) I believe I can lay my hands on a suitably-sized piece of old,
but never used, 1/4" glass mirror.

I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws,
even perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?

OK for the box, not so good for door. *If you use it for the door I'd
suggest 1/4" T&G for the frame members too.

I'm trying to imagine how that would work. Are you suggesting putting
the glass in the groove?

No, I was thinking of T&G just where the rails & stiles meet. *I guess you
could go full out on them and put the glass in. *Just don't ever break it


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? *Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? *Check it out...http://www.floridaloghouse.net

OK. Indulge my ignorance for a moment then. How would I make the
stopped mortise? 1/4" straight router bit?

Greg Guarino wrote:
On Jun 15, 8:37 am, "dadiOH" wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On 6/14/2012 4:17 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On Topic!

It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's
room. I envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry
paraphernalia) with a hinged mirrored door; like a panel door,
but with a mirror where the panel would go. It would probably
measure 18" x 24" x 4".

I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd
like my (17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building.
That is in fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.

As this will be a case of the "partially-sighted leading the
blind", I'm open to suggestions, but a couple of initial
questions come to mind:
Will I need some sort of "backer" for the mirror, or could a
sufficiently thick piece of glass suffice on its own? How should I
hold it in? I assume a rabbet from behind the frame, and "points",
if that's the right term.

I don't know if you NEED a backer but I'd put one. Probably 1/8"
lauan ("door skin"). I'd use 1/8" mirror too...set both into a 1/4"
rabbet iin the back of a mortise& tenon frame, hold them in place
with thin wood strips glued on. I'm suggesting the light, thin
mirror in case the frame joinery isn't quite up to snuff; you can
get plastic mirror too...it is light weight but scratches fairly
easily.

I appreciate the subtle hint that the door will need to be
especially precise to accept glass, especially as my skills are
modest. But the flatness of the mirror is probably non-negotiable.
(I know my "client" well) I believe I can lay my hands on a
suitably-sized piece of old, but never used, 1/4" glass mirror.

I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws,
even perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any
way?

OK for the box, not so good for door. If you use it for the door
I'd suggest 1/4" T&G for the frame members too.

I'm trying to imagine how that would work. Are you suggesting
putting the glass in the groove?

No, I was thinking of T&G just where the rails & stiles meet. I
guess you could go full out on them and put the glass in. Just don't
ever break it

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it
out...http://www.floridaloghouse.net

OK. Indulge my ignorance for a moment then. How would I make the
stopped mortise? 1/4" straight router bit?

That would work. So would a chisel.

After further thought, I would scrap the T&G or mortice/tenon and make half
lap joints. Dead easy to make, lots of glue surface, will survive when
others fail. So would a bridle joint but the half lap is less work and just
as good.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 6/16/12 1:03 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
OK. Indulge my ignorance for a moment then. How would I make the
stopped mortise? 1/4" straight router bit?

Or on edge on the table saw... finish ends with sharp chisel.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

tiredofspam wrote:
The silicone was for the front rabbet.
And not all silicone is the same.

Some will eat electrical components and some are made for electrical
components... same deal with mirrors. Use one with out the acetic acid
smell and it will be fine.

Same with the push points, they were meant to back up the silicone to
the front bead. So if installed in the back they are just reinforcing
the silicone which is way strong.


Perhaps true, but time has proven that the simple insertion of points is all
that is necesary. You're not building to withstand an earthquake, so use
what the project requires.
================================================== ===================
He's building to withstand a teenager. About the same stress.

--

-Mike-

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

On 6/14/2012 9:28 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On Topic!

It won't be for the bathroom, actually, but for my daughter's room. I
envision a shallow cabinet (for makeup and sundry paraphernalia) with a
hinged mirrored door; like a panel door, but with a mirror where the
panel would go. It would probably measure 18" x 24" x 4".

I'd like to think of a design that could be built simply, as I'd like my
(17 y.o.) daughter to be able to do much of the building. That is in
fact the main goal of the project. She seems up for it.

Seriously consider finding and buying the mirror first, then build the
project to the mirror. Usually cheaper in the long run, and a better fit.
================================================== ===========
Yes, get the mirror first. Even if custom cut, the mirror might not be quite
the dimension planned for.

"-MIKE-" wrote in message ...

On 6/14/12 3:17 PM, dadiOH wrote:
I'm thinking of making the joinery simple by using pocket screws, even
perhaps to assemble the door. Is this a stupid idea in any way?
OK for the box, not so good for door. If you use it for the door I'd
suggest 1/4" T&G for the frame members too.

Mine is 1/4" glass and I used pocket screws with glue. Granted, you're
probably talking about just pocket screws, which is a different animal.
But in either case, I would argue properly sized pocket screws are
plenty strong enough.
================================================== ================
I agree. Pocket holes and glue.




--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply