I have never used water based stain, but I have a new bay window that
needs to be finished. The top and bottom of the bay are birch ply. The
rest is southern pine.

I can always paint it. But before I resort to that I would like to see
how it stains up.

Is water based stains more resistant to fading in the sun?
Do you get deeper colors once top coated?

Can I apply alcohol based shellac over the water based finish?
Or do I need a water based product?
I noticed that Target Coatings sells a water based shellac, do I need
that, or will alc based shellac do as a sealer?

I am planning on using the general finishes water based.

tiredofspam wrote:
I have never used water based stain, but I have a new bay window that
needs to be finished. The top and bottom of the bay are birch ply. The
rest is southern pine.

I can always paint it. But before I resort to that I would like to see
how it stains up.


Why?

Is water based stains more resistant to fading in the sun?

No.


Do you get deeper colors once top coated?


A little but not a lot. If you want to know for sure - test on a scap of
the same kind of wood. That's the only way you will know. Repeat - that is
the only way you will know.


Can I apply alcohol based shellac over the water based finish?

Yeahbut... why?


Or do I need a water based product?

Nope.


I noticed that Target Coatings sells a water based shellac, do I need
that, or will alc based shellac do as a sealer?

Why use shelac at all? It is not at all necessary. Not at all.


--

-Mike-

On 3/30/2012 11:40 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
tiredofspam wrote:
I have never used water based stain, but I have a new bay window that
needs to be finished. The top and bottom of the bay are birch ply. The
rest is southern pine.

I can always paint it. But before I resort to that I would like to see
how it stains up.


Why?

Why what? why paint it, or why stain it.

Is water based stains more resistant to fading in the sun?

No.


Do you get deeper colors once top coated?


A little but not a lot. If you want to know for sure - test on a scap of
the same kind of wood. That's the only way you will know. Repeat - that is
the only way you will know.

I am un-employed right now, and I have tons of oil based stains but not
one of water. So instead of spending a bunch for testing I am looking
for some first hand knowledge.




Can I apply alcohol based shellac over the water based finish?

Yeahbut... why?

As a topcoat over the stain. I am not a fan of poly, and only use it
when absolutely necessary.



Or do I need a water based product?

Nope.


I noticed that Target Coatings sells a water based shellac, do I need
that, or will alc based shellac do as a sealer?

Why use shelac at all? It is not at all necessary. Not at all.
Well, if you noticed there is southern yellow pine, which can get quite
blotchy. so the sealer would prevent blotching. The question is can I
use alc based before the water based stain, or do I need to use water
based. Didn't even know that water based shellac existed.

tiredofspam wrote:


I am un-employed right now, and I have tons of oil based stains but
not one of water. So instead of spending a bunch for testing I am
looking for some first hand knowledge.


I get that, but the problem is more with today's woods than it is with
technique. Young growth wood does not take stains or finishes like older
stuff does, and that problem seems to be more exacerbate as time goes on.
That's the only reason that I suggest trying on samples. It has been my
experience that one cannot tell without a sample. I'm just not sure that
you will be able to count on the experiences of others, these days.





Can I apply alcohol based shellac over the water based finish?

Yeahbut... why?

As a topcoat over the stain. I am not a fan of poly, and only use it
when absolutely necessary.

Why the shelac though? What do you think that is going to offer you?
Shelac is kind of a magic term in this forum, but it really is not a magic
compound. I'm just curious why you are thinking about usind shelac.






Or do I need a water based product?

Nope.


I noticed that Target Coatings sells a water based shellac, do I
need that, or will alc based shellac do as a sealer?

Why use shelac at all? It is not at all necessary. Not at all.
Well, if you noticed there is southern yellow pine, which can get
quite blotchy. so the sealer would prevent blotching. The question is
can I use alc based before the water based stain, or do I need to use
water based. Didn't even know that water based shellac existed.

Alcohol based is no problem.

--

-Mike-

tiredofspam wrote:
I have never used water based stain, but I have a new bay window that
needs to be finished. The top and bottom of the bay are birch ply. The
rest is southern pine.

I can always paint it. But before I resort to that I would like to see
how it stains up.

Is water based stains more resistant to fading in the sun?
Actually yes. Water based stains tend to be more resistant to fading
(lightfast) than oil or alcohol stains.

Do you get deeper colors once top coated?

Deeper colors? If you use a pigment stain the colors lodge in the pores.
If you use a dye the wood is stained. Deeper then would really only
apply to dye stain since once a pigment (which contains a binder - a
finish) onces applied won't seep in - only way to darken it is to wipe
of less.

Can I apply alcohol based shellac over the water based finish?

Yes. But unless you are using a pigment stain the stain is not a finish
(ie pigment stains contain a finish as a binder though you would want to
still finish it).

Or do I need a water based product?
I noticed that Target Coatings sells a water based shellac, do I need
that, or will alc based shellac do as a sealer?

I am planning on using the general finishes water based.


You will need to lightly sand once you have applied the water based -
whatever. This will help smooth out the raised grain. You can reduce
some of it by sponging the wood first with water and let dry - then
lightly sand.




--

Michael Joel



For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes,
His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen,
being understood through what has been made,
so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God,
they did not honor Him as God, or give thanks; but they became
futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
- Romans 1:20-21 (NASB)




parksfamily2 ------ ---- --- gmail ----- ----- com
replace dashes with correct symbols

On Mar 30, 10:09 am, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com wrote:
I have never used water based stain, but I have a new bay window that
needs to be finished. The top and bottom of the bay are birch ply. The
rest is southern pine.

I can always paint it. But before I resort to that I would like to see
how it stains up.

I am always up for something different. With a nod towards some of
the European decor, I have mixed (at client request!) painted trims
with natural finished and stained woods. Some of it looks great.

Is water based stains more resistant to fading in the sun?

Usually not. Chemicals play a bit of the role in UV resistance, but
suspended particulates that create stain's opacity are the reason
stain is fade resistance. If the wood is protected from UV, then
there is little or not fading. Oil based stains have a greater
tendency to hold more solids.

Be careful to keep from getting references to stains and dyes mixed
up. The both add color, but their roles are different in finishing.

Do you get deeper colors once top coated?

It depends on what you use to top coat. Most finishes contribute a
bit of ambering (compared to "water white" lacquer) which is perceived
to the eye as enhancing or deepening the color.

Can I apply alcohol based shellac over the water based finish?
Or do I need a water based product?
I noticed that Target Coatings sells a water based shellac, do I need
that, or will alc based shellac do as a sealer?

I don't personally know anyone that uses water based shellac. I
remember reading a long treatise of how they make that stuff and it is
a complex chemical formula that includes shellac and man made resins
that have been broken down chemically to use less alcohol and more
water.

Shellac is cheap. Shellac sanding sealer is cheap. It works and has
for 100s of years. The water based stuff has been around for some
time now, and has never really taken off. If it worked great, folks
that do interior finishing would be using that on low wear clear
surfaces like crown moldings, cabinet interiors, etc., like it was
free. Fumes and odors are getting to be more and more of an issue
when doing interior finishing/refinishing.

I am planning on using the general finishes water based.

Nothing wrong with that.


FROM A LATER POST:

As a topcoat over the stain. I am not a fan of poly, and only use it
when absolutely necessary.

Why? Any EMPIRICAL evidence of why poly is bad, or is it just the
constant crowing and screeching about "polyurinstain" and other
childish wordplay? Have you seen it fail when properly applied?

Polyurethane is perfect for this application. Why? If you have a
window seat, not much beats poly for abrasion resistance. Certainly
nothing that you can buy as a one part easy application over the
counter.

Additionally, and this is an important point, the top coat protects
the stain color. If you have a mildly UV resistant stain that is more
of a transparent look in the final product, a good, UV resistant top
coat will go a long way towards protecting the stain and its color.

I have seen tables (as have all finishers) that have been stained/dyed
with water based stains that have been finished with shellac or
lacquer. Unless it is a chemical aberration (like poly conversation
lacquer) there will be no UV resistance. I have seen with my own eyes
a gorgeous little cherry table that was stained a bit to make it a
little redder at the get go when it was completed. The table was in a
window that caught the afternoon sun. After one year, you cold tell
where the lamp was placed as well as the pictures. I felt bad for the
guy. He used Transtint dye with brushing lacquer (which he applied
perfectly) on the table.

As for me, I use stains or dyes as needed, then seal them up with
polyurethane conversion lacquer that is rated for exterior use. My
exterior doors just don't seem to fade.

Or do I need a water based product?

Once dried, you can use oil/solvent based products over water based
stains and tints. However, if you are brushing and padding, be aware
that you will get a pass or two and you will start lifting your stain
color off the material. And if you are using a long finish, you may
not detect that you have fouled your staining until it is drying. If
you one that likes to brush a surface, go back over an area, then
smooth it out again with more material, etc., don't use a water based
stain or tint. DAMHIKT. I thought I was good enough to pull it
off, but couldn't. Tried more than once, too.

I noticed that Target Coatings sells a water based shellac, do I need
that, or will alc based shellac do as a sealer?

Why use shelac at all? It is not at all necessary. Not at all.

Well, if you noticed there is southern yellow pine, which can get quite
blotchy. so the sealer would prevent blotching. The question is can I
use alc based before the water based stain, or do I need to use water
based.

I think you are confusing "sealer" and "conditioner". If you seal the
wood with shellac, the stain will not penetrate well, nor will it
preclude blotching. You need to treat the wood with a "conditioner"
that will allow the stain to penetrate evenly and prevent (when
properly applied) almost all blotching and spotting.

Though I haven't done it myself, the old finishers used to take
sanding sealer and cut it with an equal part of anhydrous alcohol to
make their own conditioner. That formula has been around for decades,
maybe even longer. If you use it, remember it isn't sanding sealer
anymore. Wipe it clean and apply your stain. DO NOT SAND.

Remember too, that if you use conditioner of any type, you may wind up
with a color that is a bit lighter than you have on the can or in the
store sample. Find that scrap of material you have left and give it a
whirl on that.

But if you will Google wood conditioner, and you will find it is
available everywhere.

Your proper technique for finishing new wood would be:

- sand surfaces to smooth with 220 - 240 grit

- clean, vacuum surface. Wipe with rag dampened with high VOC solvent
such as lacquer thinner, etc.

- apply conditioner as per instructions (unless homemade, which you
can figure out on your own)

- clean surface again with rag and apply stain as per instruction

- apply finish after 24 - 48 hours of dry time (depending on the
stain, the amount applied, and the conditions of the drying area).
For the appearance of the stain, the longer you can let it cure out he
better off you will be

Unless you are using dirty wood, wood from an unknown source (sat in
BIL's garage for a few years) there is no reason to use shellac on the
wood in this instance. You certainly can if you want, but remember
each coat you apply is an invitation to bug, dust bits, animal hair,
and all manner of other fouling. If the wood was clean when you
started with it, don't shellac.

If you built this yourself, you probably have a scrap or two to
practice on. I would start there by making it a fully finished piece
before starting on the real thing.

Probably more than you needed... but it's drizzly day here... hope it
helps.

Robert

I love using Shellac. It's easy to use give a great finish.
Can be repaired easily.

I have french polished some queen anne stuff in the past and learned to
respect what this can do. Poly has a look, lacquer has a look, and
shellac has many looks. Shellac is so overlooked. I remember the shop
teacher some 40 or so years ago telling us shellac sucked. He was so
wrong. If you work with it you will understand. I still like BLO too.

When I do poly I use glossy and sand it to a low sheen. Can't stand the
plastic look. But I am not a fan. It has its place, but IMHO it is limited.

On 3/30/2012 2:41 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
tiredofspam wrote:


I am un-employed right now, and I have tons of oil based stains but
not one of water. So instead of spending a bunch for testing I am
looking for some first hand knowledge.


I get that, but the problem is more with today's woods than it is with
technique. Young growth wood does not take stains or finishes like older
stuff does, and that problem seems to be more exacerbate as time goes on.
That's the only reason that I suggest trying on samples. It has been my
experience that one cannot tell without a sample. I'm just not sure that
you will be able to count on the experiences of others, these days.





Can I apply alcohol based shellac over the water based finish?

Yeahbut... why?

As a topcoat over the stain. I am not a fan of poly, and only use it
when absolutely necessary.

Why the shelac though? What do you think that is going to offer you?
Shelac is kind of a magic term in this forum, but it really is not a magic
compound. I'm just curious why you are thinking about usind shelac.






Or do I need a water based product?

Nope.


I noticed that Target Coatings sells a water based shellac, do I
need that, or will alc based shellac do as a sealer?

Why use shelac at all? It is not at all necessary. Not at all.
Well, if you noticed there is southern yellow pine, which can get
quite blotchy. so the sealer would prevent blotching. The question is
can I use alc based before the water based stain, or do I need to use
water based. Didn't even know that water based shellac existed.

Alcohol based is no problem.

On 3/30/2012 3:34 PM, Michael Joel wrote:
tiredofspam wrote:
I have never used water based stain, but I have a new bay window that
needs to be finished. The top and bottom of the bay are birch ply. The
rest is southern pine.

I can always paint it. But before I resort to that I would like to see
how it stains up.

Is water based stains more resistant to fading in the sun?
Actually yes. Water based stains tend to be more resistant to fading
(lightfast) than oil or alcohol stains.

Thanks, that's what I was hoping as this is a south east facing bay. And
it gets a load of sunlight. I thought I heard one was better than the
other. But could not remember.


Do you get deeper colors once top coated?

Deeper colors? If you use a pigment stain the colors lodge in the pores.
If you use a dye the wood is stained. Deeper then would really only
apply to dye stain since once a pigment (which contains a binder - a
finish) onces applied won't seep in - only way to darken it is to wipe
of less.
I should explain. When I look at water stained surfaces that have not
been topcoated they look really painted not rich. Oil still has a richer
look. So does it come up and have (water based stain) depth once topcoated?

Can I apply alcohol based shellac over the water based finish?

Yes. But unless you are using a pigment stain the stain is not a finish
(ie pigment stains contain a finish as a binder though you would want to
still finish it).

Or do I need a water based product?
I noticed that Target Coatings sells a water based shellac, do I need
that, or will alc based shellac do as a sealer?

I am planning on using the general finishes water based.


You will need to lightly sand once you have applied the water based -
whatever. This will help smooth out the raised grain. You can reduce
some of it by sponging the wood first with water and let dry - then
lightly sand.

On 3/30/2012 10:52 AM, tiredofspam wrote:


On 3/30/2012 11:40 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
tiredofspam wrote:
I have never used water based stain, but I have a new bay window that
needs to be finished. The top and bottom of the bay are birch ply. The
rest is southern pine.

I can always paint it. But before I resort to that I would like to see
how it stains up.


Why?

Why what? why paint it, or why stain it.

Is water based stains more resistant to fading in the sun?

No.


Do you get deeper colors once top coated?


A little but not a lot. If you want to know for sure - test on a scap of
the same kind of wood. That's the only way you will know. Repeat -
that is
the only way you will know.

I am un-employed right now, and I have tons of oil based stains but not
one of water. So instead of spending a bunch for testing I am looking
for some first hand knowledge.


Water based any thing is going to raise the grain. A common practice is
to spritz the surface with water wipe down let it dry and refinish sand.

If you are determined to go this route General Finishes also makes a
"DYE" stain that is water based and it does indeed provide a deep rich
color.

Personally I would use an oil based stain if at all possible

On 3/30/2012 3:42 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
I love using Shellac. It's easy to use give a great finish.
Can be repaired easily.

I have french polished some queen anne stuff in the past and learned to
respect what this can do. Poly has a look, lacquer has a look, and
shellac has many looks. Shellac is so overlooked. I remember the shop
teacher some 40 or so years ago telling us shellac sucked. He was so
wrong. If you work with it you will understand. I still like BLO too.

When I do poly I use glossy and sand it to a low sheen. Can't stand the
plastic look. But I am not a fan. It has its place, but IMHO it is limited.


Seriously, all poly finishes are not the same.

If you like a satin finish and watn a finish that is absolutely fool
proof consider Old Masters "gel" varnish.

I have been using gel varnishes for 20+ years and get great
"non-plastic" results.

For the Old Master gel varnish you simply...

Apply with paper towel or throw away brush.

IMMEDIATELY wipe off the excess with a lint free cotton rag.

About 1 hour later buff the surface with another Clean lint free rag.


Wait 4-6 hours and repeat 2~3 times.

You end up with a surface that begs to be touched.

tiredofspam wrote:


On 3/30/2012 3:34 PM, Michael Joel wrote:

tiredofspam wrote:

I have never used water based stain, but I have a new bay window that
needs to be finished. The top and bottom of the bay are birch ply. The
rest is southern pine.

I can always paint it. But before I resort to that I would like to see
how it stains up.

Is water based stains more resistant to fading in the sun?

Actually yes. Water based stains tend to be more resistant to fading
(lightfast) than oil or alcohol stains.

Thanks, that's what I was hoping as this is a south east facing bay. And
it gets a load of sunlight. I thought I heard one was better than the
other. But could not remember.


Do you get deeper colors once top coated?

Deeper colors? If you use a pigment stain the colors lodge in the pores.
If you use a dye the wood is stained. Deeper then would really only
apply to dye stain since once a pigment (which contains a binder - a
finish) onces applied won't seep in - only way to darken it is to wipe
of less.

I should explain. When I look at water stained surfaces that have not
been topcoated they look really painted not rich. Oil still has a richer
look. So does it come up and have (water based stain) depth once
topcoated?



Pigment stains are basically a very low pigment % paint (paint is
basically a pigment stain with tons of pigment so the painted surface is
not seen). Pigment stain sits on the surface of the wood (lodging in the
pores and any areas that allow the tiny pigments to catch hold). So this
means it usually will highlight pores and wood damage more than the rest
of the surface (though you will get staining overall of course). The
only way to darken this is to wipe less off. Being pigment it will
obscure the wood in some amount depending on how heavy it is allowed to
remain in it. (just a note, pigment stains are suspended in a finish -
to "glue" the pigments to the wood).

Dye stains seep into the wood and actual color it - not just sitting on
top. This gives much more even highlight - but of course damaged wood
would allow more seepage so more color. You can keep applying these
stains until you get the shade you want because each application adds
more dye. There is no binder in these stains because they dye the wood
itself and they don't obscure the wood - no matter how many coats.


I would think if you want deeper appearance to the wood you would use
the dye type. Not to mention you can add some compatible solvent (in
your case water - there is probably a limit though to how much you can
add) and then keep applying it until you obtain the shade you want.

The way it looks wet (any stain) is basically how it is going to look
finished. A paste wood filler can be used to add "depth" but with birch
and pine I don't think the pores are big enough to bother with.

You probably know the dangers of staining (blotching) so no need to
mention it. That is what gel stains are best for - being a gel the
stains don't work in deep so they show up the differences in the wood
less - but this also means less "depth" look.

You may want to test your stain on a piece of pine to be sure your going
to get the look you expect.

I don't know why an oil stain would give more depth than water - unless
you compare a oil dye stain to a water pigment stain - OR - the oil
stain has a finish/binder and the water stain didn't. This would mean
the oil would continue to have a "wet" look (or at least somewhat) while
the water would go flat once dry. But this isn't a difference in the
stain - just the fact that the water stain hasn't been top coated yet.


Can I apply alcohol based shellac over the water based finish?


I am confused because you say "water based finish". If we are talking
about a dye stain, it isn't a finish. That is why it looks bland and
flattish once dry. It needs a finish on it make it look good.

You shouldn't have any problems applying an alcohol based shellac since
it won't redissolve the stain. - lacquer or a water based could.



Or do I need a water based product?
I noticed that Target Coatings sells a water based shellac, do I need
that, or will alc based shellac do as a sealer?

I am planning on using the general finishes water based.

If you use a water based finish over a water based stain you take a
chance of having some of the stain redissolve as you rub over it.

I like shellac. It is not a lot weaker than lacquer to water, heat,
chemicals, and solvents. It is actually better at blocking water vapor.
It is easy to fix when damaged.

On top of that - if you decide to paint shellac isn't going to pose a
problem.

Dewaxed will give a clearer finish than the waxed - it also helps it
resist water a little more.

Hope all this was of some help - it rambles on forever.

--

Michael Joel



For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes,
His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen,
being understood through what has been made,
so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God,
they did not honor Him as God, or give thanks; but they became
futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
- Romans 1:20-21 (NASB)




parksfamily2 ------ ---- --- gmail ----- ----- com
replace dashes with correct symbols

Yep, much of this I already understood, I work with Shellac all the
time, dewaxed primarily. I've ruffled quite a few feathers here over my
feelings that Shellac is highly under rated. But to each his own.

I guess I am going to have to bite the bullet and get a quart and play
with it. The info was helpful.

I am hoping to get the colorfastness, nothing else matters since this
sees so much sunlight.

Thanks.

On 3/31/2012 9:29 PM, Michael Joel wrote:
tiredofspam wrote:


On 3/30/2012 3:34 PM, Michael Joel wrote:

tiredofspam wrote:

I have never used water based stain, but I have a new bay window that
needs to be finished. The top and bottom of the bay are birch ply. The
rest is southern pine.

I can always paint it. But before I resort to that I would like to see
how it stains up.

Is water based stains more resistant to fading in the sun?

Actually yes. Water based stains tend to be more resistant to fading
(lightfast) than oil or alcohol stains.

Thanks, that's what I was hoping as this is a south east facing bay.
And it gets a load of sunlight. I thought I heard one was better than
the other. But could not remember.


Do you get deeper colors once top coated?

Deeper colors? If you use a pigment stain the colors lodge in the pores.
If you use a dye the wood is stained. Deeper then would really only
apply to dye stain since once a pigment (which contains a binder - a
finish) onces applied won't seep in - only way to darken it is to wipe
of less.

I should explain. When I look at water stained surfaces that have not
been topcoated they look really painted not rich. Oil still has a
richer look. So does it come up and have (water based stain) depth
once topcoated?



Pigment stains are basically a very low pigment % paint (paint is
basically a pigment stain with tons of pigment so the painted surface is
not seen). Pigment stain sits on the surface of the wood (lodging in the
pores and any areas that allow the tiny pigments to catch hold). So this
means it usually will highlight pores and wood damage more than the rest
of the surface (though you will get staining overall of course). The
only way to darken this is to wipe less off. Being pigment it will
obscure the wood in some amount depending on how heavy it is allowed to
remain in it. (just a note, pigment stains are suspended in a finish -
to "glue" the pigments to the wood).

Dye stains seep into the wood and actual color it - not just sitting on
top. This gives much more even highlight - but of course damaged wood
would allow more seepage so more color. You can keep applying these
stains until you get the shade you want because each application adds
more dye. There is no binder in these stains because they dye the wood
itself and they don't obscure the wood - no matter how many coats.


I would think if you want deeper appearance to the wood you would use
the dye type. Not to mention you can add some compatible solvent (in
your case water - there is probably a limit though to how much you can
add) and then keep applying it until you obtain the shade you want.

The way it looks wet (any stain) is basically how it is going to look
finished. A paste wood filler can be used to add "depth" but with birch
and pine I don't think the pores are big enough to bother with.

You probably know the dangers of staining (blotching) so no need to
mention it. That is what gel stains are best for - being a gel the
stains don't work in deep so they show up the differences in the wood
less - but this also means less "depth" look.

You may want to test your stain on a piece of pine to be sure your going
to get the look you expect.

I don't know why an oil stain would give more depth than water - unless
you compare a oil dye stain to a water pigment stain - OR - the oil
stain has a finish/binder and the water stain didn't. This would mean
the oil would continue to have a "wet" look (or at least somewhat) while
the water would go flat once dry. But this isn't a difference in the
stain - just the fact that the water stain hasn't been top coated yet.


Can I apply alcohol based shellac over the water based finish?


I am confused because you say "water based finish". If we are talking
about a dye stain, it isn't a finish. That is why it looks bland and
flattish once dry. It needs a finish on it make it look good.

You shouldn't have any problems applying an alcohol based shellac since
it won't redissolve the stain. - lacquer or a water based could.



Or do I need a water based product?
I noticed that Target Coatings sells a water based shellac, do I need
that, or will alc based shellac do as a sealer?

I am planning on using the general finishes water based.

If you use a water based finish over a water based stain you take a
chance of having some of the stain redissolve as you rub over it.

I like shellac. It is not a lot weaker than lacquer to water, heat,
chemicals, and solvents. It is actually better at blocking water vapor.
It is easy to fix when damaged.

On top of that - if you decide to paint shellac isn't going to pose a
problem.

Dewaxed will give a clearer finish than the waxed - it also helps it
resist water a little more.

Hope all this was of some help - it rambles on forever.

On 3/31/2012 9:29 PM, Michael Joel wrote:
tiredofspam wrote:


On 3/30/2012 3:34 PM, Michael Joel wrote:

tiredofspam wrote:

I have never used water based stain, but I have a new bay window that
needs to be finished. The top and bottom of the bay are birch ply. The
rest is southern pine.

I can always paint it. But before I resort to that I would like to see
how it stains up.


snipped for brevity

Nicely done Michael! Well written and thoroughly covered. Nice to see
that kind of informed interest in helping someone with an intelligent
response as well as patience, these days.

I would only add that shellac is not sunscreen. But, neither is lacquer
nor even conventional varnishes...

--
Digger
Bob O'Dell

On 3/31/2012 9:30 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
Yep, much of this I already understood, I work with Shellac all the
time, dewaxed primarily. I've ruffled quite a few feathers here over my
feelings that Shellac is highly under rated. But to each his own.

I used shellac when I was in 8th grade wood shop. Didn't use it again
for over 50 years, for no particular reason. Well perhaps because of the
white ring you get on a table with a wet glass.

I bought a can a few years ago because people in here where saying you
couldn't spray it or something and I wanted to see what the fuss was
about... Well, club me with a feather, I sprayed it on a small walnut
box with a maple top I built from firewood to hold some pool cue
maintenance supplies. Wow, really made the wood pop and begs to be
touched. I'll never again not have some shellac on hand. Really good
stuff. I use it on turnings all the time now, it dries fast, finishes
great, particularly on hard woods.

I don't know whose feathers you may have ruffled, but they are mistaken.
I still won't use it on a table that will get water and booze spilt on it.

Anyway, I never used water based stains, but seems Michael Joel did a
great job explaining it. Thanks Michael.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com