I have almost no experience with woodworking and am wondering which
tool would be best to make the following cut. (I can make it fairly
well w/ hand tools, but curious what the best approach would be with
power tool).

I have a piece of poplar 1/2" thick, 9" long, 4.5" wide. I want to cut
a rectangle out of the corner of the board to make a finger. I'd like
to remove 1/2" along the 9" edge and 2.25" along the 4.5" edge. I need
to be able to make it close to perfectly square, and to do this
repeatably on multiple boards.

Visually, here is what I want to do (not to scale):

Befo
xxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxx

After:
xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxx

I'm guessing I could do this on a table saw, for this case, since I
can raise the blade 1/2" above the table and use a dado head blade.
However, what about the more general case, if the smaller dimension of
the rectangle that I want to remove was larger than the max height of
a tablesaw blade?


Thanks for any suggestions.

-Scott

On 12 Jul 2004 12:40:41 -0700, Scott Kuhn wrote:
I have almost no experience with woodworking and am wondering which
tool would be best to make the following cut. (I can make it fairly
well w/ hand tools, but curious what the best approach would be with
power tool).

I have a piece of poplar 1/2" thick, 9" long, 4.5" wide. I want to cut
a rectangle out of the corner of the board to make a finger. I'd like
to remove 1/2" along the 9" edge and 2.25" along the 4.5" edge. I need
to be able to make it close to perfectly square, and to do this
repeatably on multiple boards.

Visually, here is what I want to do (not to scale):

Befo
xxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxx

After:
xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxx

I'm guessing I could do this on a table saw, for this case, since I
can raise the blade 1/2" above the table and use a dado head blade.
However, what about the more general case, if the smaller dimension of
the rectangle that I want to remove was larger than the max height of
a tablesaw blade?


That's called a rabbet. Same root as "rebate" . . NOT the animal (which
isn't a rodent, despite having similar teeth, but that's another
discussion). Some older "Rabbet planes" are labeled "Rebate planes"

If your rabbet is deeper than 3/4", you should think about WHY you need
to rabbet that deep. There's probably a better way to accomplish what
you want in those cases.

Tools? Almost anything. Mark the width and depth with your marking
guage. Cut with the bow saw, fitted with the appropriate blade for the
task at hand. I use a mirror so I can stand in a comforatable position
and still see what I'm doing.

My first attempt at tenons (imagine four rabbets) used exactly that
technique, and it was plenty "square". Practice on scrap. Poplar is
just about the easiest hardwood to practice on.

I practiced on red oak before I did my actual pieces. Took about three
practice runs before I "got it."

Good luck


Charles

Charles, Thanks for the info.

I may not have explained what I'm trying to do clearly enough. In my
case, I want to remove the rectangle all the way thru the whole
thickness of the board. Is it still a rabbet in this case?

When I'm done, the whole piece will still be 1/2" thick but shaped
like shown in the diagram below (looking at the board from the front)

Befo
------------------
- -
- -
- -
- -
------------------

After:
------------
- -
- -
- -------
- -
------------------

(In this diagram, the rectangle that I've cut away is the upper right
corner.)

I wish it were that easy to get nice square angles with wood.

In case you wonder what I'm doing, I'm trying to build a box. It is
the first project in a book by Aime Ontairo Fraser called "Getting
Started in Woodworking". The joints for the box are finger joints, as
she calls them, which are then strengthened by inserting a dowel pin
later in the process. The adjacent board would have the rectangle
removed on the bottom half of the board so they will fit together.

--Scott




"U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles" "Charles wrote in message . ..
On 12 Jul 2004 12:40:41 -0700, Scott Kuhn wrote:
I have almost no experience with woodworking and am wondering which
tool would be best to make the following cut. (I can make it fairly
well w/ hand tools, but curious what the best approach would be with
power tool).

I have a piece of poplar 1/2" thick, 9" long, 4.5" wide. I want to cut
a rectangle out of the corner of the board to make a finger. I'd like
to remove 1/2" along the 9" edge and 2.25" along the 4.5" edge. I need
to be able to make it close to perfectly square, and to do this
repeatably on multiple boards.

Visually, here is what I want to do (not to scale):

Befo
xxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxx

After:
xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxx

I'm guessing I could do this on a table saw, for this case, since I
can raise the blade 1/2" above the table and use a dado head blade.
However, what about the more general case, if the smaller dimension of
the rectangle that I want to remove was larger than the max height of
a tablesaw blade?


That's called a rabbet. Same root as "rebate" . . NOT the animal (which
isn't a rodent, despite having similar teeth, but that's another
discussion). Some older "Rabbet planes" are labeled "Rebate planes"

If your rabbet is deeper than 3/4", you should think about WHY you need
to rabbet that deep. There's probably a better way to accomplish what
you want in those cases.

Tools? Almost anything. Mark the width and depth with your marking
guage. Cut with the bow saw, fitted with the appropriate blade for the
task at hand. I use a mirror so I can stand in a comforatable position
and still see what I'm doing.

My first attempt at tenons (imagine four rabbets) used exactly that
technique, and it was plenty "square". Practice on scrap. Poplar is
just about the easiest hardwood to practice on.

I practiced on red oak before I did my actual pieces. Took about three
practice runs before I "got it."

Good luck


Charles

On 12 Jul 2004 20:55:09 -0700, (Scott Kuhn)
wrote:

Charles, Thanks for the info.

I may not have explained what I'm trying to do clearly enough.

there's that.

if you are trying to do what I think you are trying to do, it's pretty
different from what I'd call a finger joint. here's what I'd call a
finger joint:
http://www.azwoodman.com/joints/finger-joint2.jpg

is that what you are after? if it is, there are a number of ways to go
about it:
http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/works...ngerjoint.html
http://www.growinglifestyle.com/article/s0/a166236.html
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/fe...ea.asp?id=1109
http://www.woodrat.com/
http://www.incra.biz/index.html
http://www.leestyron.com/lynnjig.php















In my
case, I want to remove the rectangle all the way thru the whole
thickness of the board. Is it still a rabbet in this case?

no








When I'm done, the whole piece will still be 1/2" thick but shaped
like shown in the diagram below (looking at the board from the front)


ascii art rarely communicates well. if you have a scanner or a digital
camera or a drawing program on your computer either capture the images
from the book or draw us a diagram and scan it or whatever and post it
to alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking.







Befo
------------------
- -
- -
- -
- -
------------------

After:
------------
- -
- -
- -------
- -
------------------

(In this diagram, the rectangle that I've cut away is the upper right
corner.)

I wish it were that easy to get nice square angles with wood.

In case you wonder what I'm doing, I'm trying to build a box. It is
the first project in a book by Aime Ontairo Fraser called "Getting
Started in Woodworking". The joints for the box are finger joints, as
she calls them, which are then strengthened by inserting a dowel pin
later in the process. The adjacent board would have the rectangle
removed on the bottom half of the board so they will fit together.

that sounds more like a half lap joint. it hardly seems like it would
add much to the strength of the box. I suspect that I'm still not
understanding what it is that you are trying to do.

wrote in message
if you are trying to do what I think you are trying to do, it's pretty
different from what I'd call a finger joint. here's what I'd call a
finger joint:
http://www.azwoodman.com/joints/finger-joint2.jpg

is that what you are after?

No, that is what i will eventually be after, but right now it's much
simpler...



ascii art rarely communicates well. if you have a scanner or a digital
camera or a drawing program on your computer either capture the images
from the book or draw us a diagram and scan it or whatever and post it
to alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking.

I took a few pics and posted them he
http://home.comcast.net/~scott_d_kuhn/index.html

So now that it's clear what joint I'm trying to make, how would you
make it accurately and repeatably? I stopped in my local Woodworking
store and asked a guy there, and he said he'd do it on a jigsaw or
maybe a bandsaw.


Thx to the previous posters for the resources and info. The book by
Rogowski mentioned by Patriarch looks great and is now in my
Amazon.com shopping cart.

--Scott

(Scott Kuhn) wrote in
om:

wrote in message
if you are trying to do what I think you are trying to do, it's pretty
different from what I'd call a finger joint. here's what I'd call a
finger joint:
http://www.azwoodman.com/joints/finger-joint2.jpg

is that what you are after?

No, that is what i will eventually be after, but right now it's much
simpler...



ascii art rarely communicates well. if you have a scanner or a digital
camera or a drawing program on your computer either capture the images
from the book or draw us a diagram and scan it or whatever and post it
to alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking.

I took a few pics and posted them he
http://home.comcast.net/~scott_d_kuhn/index.html

So now that it's clear what joint I'm trying to make, how would you
make it accurately and repeatably? I stopped in my local Woodworking
store and asked a guy there, and he said he'd do it on a jigsaw or
maybe a bandsaw.


Thx to the previous posters for the resources and info. The book by
Rogowski mentioned by Patriarch looks great and is now in my
Amazon.com shopping cart.

--Scott


If the pictures are the ones that showed up earlier this evening on abpw,
then mostly the tools you need to cut this simple joint are readily
available. A good little saw, on which you can spend anywhere from $10 up
to more than $100, a square for marking the cut lines, and either a sharp
pencil, or a razor-type knife.

Since you're starting out, pick up the hobby saw marketed under the name
ZONA. It has replaceable blades, cuts with a very thin kerf, and is the
maybe $10 model mentioned in the previous paragraph. And, lest you think
that it has no class at all, it is the handcut dovetail saw of choice of
one of the graduates of the College of the Redwoods woodworking types that
regularly hangs out with our woodworking club. Or a Japanese style pull
saw, or similar.

Maybe a chisel to clean up the cuts. And a block plane to trim the joints
to close fit after glueup. Or use sandpaper wrapped around a block of
wood.

Now, the question of repeatability comes up. How much repeatability are
you after? Do you want to cut 4 of these joints? Or 400? Or 4000? If
the answer is 4, then use the hand tools, and practice, and work with care.
If you want to do 400, then a jig or fixture on the table saw or router
table will help you cut them repeatably, quickly, and fairly safely. If
you need 4000, then find Morris Dovey, and have him program his massive CNC
robotic cutters, and sub out the job. ;-)

You see, woodworking is a bit like economics. There are a few questions,
many more answers, and no one can really prove any of them wrong. But
things DO tend to get more complicated than we ever intended, when once we
started.

Enjoy the learning experiences. That's where the value comes, in my
limited experiences. That, and making people smile.

Patriarch

Scott Kuhn wrote:
if you are trying to do what I think you are trying to do, it's pretty
different from what I'd call a finger joint. here's what I'd call a
finger joint:
http://www.azwoodman.com/joints/finger-joint2.jpg

is that what you are after?

No, that is what i will eventually be after, but right now it's much
simpler...

I'm not far from a newbie (only about 6 months woodworking experience)
but as far as I know, that joint is called a half-lap joint.

I've gotta cut about 40 of them soon (in 2x2 for making a frame) so I'll
be trying to find a repeatable method too. In fact, I'm probably just
going to cut them all by hand as:

a)I'm a bit shaky with a router (it is a very cheap router)

b)it's only for a frame underneath an MDF constructions.

Cheers,


Andy

On 13 Jul 2004 20:56:48 -0700, (Scott Kuhn)
wrote:

wrote in message
if you are trying to do what I think you are trying to do, it's pretty
different from what I'd call a finger joint. here's what I'd call a
finger joint:
http://www.azwoodman.com/joints/finger-joint2.jpg

is that what you are after?

No, that is what i will eventually be after, but right now it's much
simpler...



ascii art rarely communicates well. if you have a scanner or a digital
camera or a drawing program on your computer either capture the images
from the book or draw us a diagram and scan it or whatever and post it
to alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking.

I took a few pics and posted them he
http://home.comcast.net/~scott_d_kuhn/index.html

So now that it's clear what joint I'm trying to make, how would you
make it accurately and repeatably? I stopped in my local Woodworking
store and asked a guy there, and he said he'd do it on a jigsaw or
maybe a bandsaw.


Thx to the previous posters for the resources and info. The book by
Rogowski mentioned by Patriarch looks great and is now in my
Amazon.com shopping cart.

--Scott




Scott-

what tools do you have?

Scott Kuhn wrote:

wrote in message
if you are trying to do what I think you are trying to do, it's pretty
different from what I'd call a finger joint. here's what I'd call a
finger joint:
http://www.azwoodman.com/joints/finger-joint2.jpg

is that what you are after?

No, that is what i will eventually be after, but right now it's much
simpler...



ascii art rarely communicates well. if you have a scanner or a digital
camera or a drawing program on your computer either capture the images
from the book or draw us a diagram and scan it or whatever and post it
to alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking.

I took a few pics and posted them he
http://home.comcast.net/~scott_d_kuhn/index.html

So now that it's clear what joint I'm trying to make, how would you
make it accurately and repeatably? I stopped in my local Woodworking
store and asked a guy there, and he said he'd do it on a jigsaw or
maybe a bandsaw.


Thx to the previous posters for the resources and info. The book by
Rogowski mentioned by Patriarch looks great and is now in my
Amazon.com shopping cart.

As to how I'd make that specific cut "accurately and repeatably", IMO it's
practically made to order for a radial arm saw. Two passes, one with the
blade vertical to cut from the edge, one horizontal from the end, stack
your pieces and you can do a dozen or so on one pass depending on
thickness.

But if you don't have a radial arm saw then you'd have to go out and get one
to use that approach, so it's probalby not cost effective for you.

The problem with questions like this is that there is no "right" answer.
The "best" way to do it depends on too many factors. If all you've got it
a Swiss Army Knife and you're a broke student with plenty of time then you
can do it, very carefully, with a Swiss Army Knife, sharpening it on a
coffee mug in the cafeteria as needed. On the other hand, if you're the
CEO of Delta you hand the piece to an engineer and tell him to whip you up
a machine that takes whatever he has in at one end and produces finished
parts at the other (OK, I'm exaggerating--he'd probably just pull a radial
arm saw off the line if he didn't already have one).

Part of the "art" of woodworking is figuring out how to do what you need to
do with what you have and failing that what's the best thing to do about
it--the "best thing to do about it" is not necessarily get a tool optimized
for that one job--there may be one that does it "good enough" and does a
lot of other stuff that you've been working too hard at with what you have.

You asked how to handle a cut of that nature that is too deep for the blade
depth on your table saw. Many ways. You could use any of several
varieties of hand saw, a band saw, a jigsaw, a scrollsaw, etc. If the
stock thickness is less than twice the cut depth of the longest bit your
router will handle then you could route it and clean up the corner with a
chisel. If you're desperate enough you could drill multiple holes along
the cut line then smooth it with a chisel.

--Scott

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

(Scott Kuhn) wrote in
om:

Charles, Thanks for the info.

I may not have explained what I'm trying to do clearly enough. In my
case, I want to remove the rectangle all the way thru the whole
thickness of the board. Is it still a rabbet in this case?

snippage

I'm guessing that the limitations of ASCI art, and relative unfamiliarity
with terminology, are going to be a problem which continues for a little
while.

You have one pretty good book - let me suggest another: Taunton's
"Complete Illustrated Guide to Joinery", by Gary Rogowski, published
withing the last 18 months or so. Well written, tons of process photos,
and almost every conceivable means of safely producing common and not-so-
common woodworking joints.

It will cost you about 20% of the price of the router you're likely to be
shopping for next, by the way. For that, see www.patwarner.com for some of
the best information you could want.

Have fun with this. There are friends here.

Patriarch