Anybody into making "box(es)" with mitres cut onna table saw?

I'm thinking of making a couple cremation urns in that fashion. Someone
might know a trick or 2?? I couldn't find any free plans ...

Thx,
Peetie

On 12/10/2011 11:46 PM, Peetie Wheatstraw wrote:
Anybody into making "box(es)" with mitres cut onna table saw?

I'm thinking of making a couple cremation urns in that fashion. Someone
might know a trick or 2?? I couldn't find any free plans ...

Thx,
Peetie
I don't make boxes, but routinely do stretchers and picture frames on
the table saw. I use a gauge similar to this one at Rockler

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...miter%20gauges


Since these gauges have fixed 90 degree angles it takes one source of
error from the cut.

I don't have to tell you accurate angles are only half the battle, the
sides must be precisely the same length to get good miters.

On 12/11/2011 9:20 AM, knuttle wrote:
I don't make boxes, but routinely do stretchers and picture frames on
the table saw. I use a gauge similar to this one at Rockler

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...miter%20gauges

If those aren't made any more accurately than these

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...ilter=clamp-it

then I suspect the results will be less than satisfactory. The
description says "... Since both pieces reference off a perfect 90°
angle, the miters will fit perfectly." but based on my experience with
the Clamp-It, I think that sentence might better be written as "IF both
pieces reference off a perfect 90° angle..."

Since these gauges have fixed 90 degree angles it takes one source of
error from the cut.

Only if it's truly a perfect 90° angle. If it's out-of-square by 0.025"
over a 6" length (as were the Clamp-Its that I bought, and promptly
returned) that will produce an error of a tenth of an inch on *each leg*
of a 24" frame.

I strongly recommend that anyone considering the purchase of either this
product, or the Clamp-It, should check it for square with one of the
Starrett combination squares that Rockler also sells.

If you want something that you can be sure is an accurate 90°, get a set
of "3D Squares" from Jevons Tool Co.

http://jevonstoolco.com/_wsn/page3.html

I bought a set of four at the Indianapolis Woodworking Show about six or
seven years ago -- a bit pricy, but well worth it. I've never regretted
the purchase. As far as I can tell, they're dead on perfect right angles.

(Obligatory disclaimer: I have no connection with Jevons Tool Company,
except as a *completely* satisfied customer.)

On 12/10/2011 10:46 PM, Peetie Wheatstraw wrote:
Anybody into making "box(es)" with mitres cut onna table saw?

I'm thinking of making a couple cremation urns in that fashion. Someone
might know a trick or 2?? I couldn't find any free plans ...

As opposed to the other responses, I presume you mean cutting miters on
flat, wide stock to make box sides rather than picture frame stock
across the stock.

It's certainly doable; I've done it a fair amount but the saw has to be
set up verrrry well. I could _not_ do it on the first old contractors
saw as the arbor mount wasn't quite parallel so on a 45 the blade wasn't
in plane w/ the table accurately enough. The PM Model 66 takes care of
that problem.

NB as well that the miter gauge or cutting sled used also has to be
right as you have both angles in play. There are fancy ways to measure
whether you have the 45 angle or not; I don't bother but simply use a
test cut and measure the 90 of the resulting pieces. At most this is a
slight adjustment as again the Model 66 is solid enough as to be
essentially perfect once set up once.

BTW, once you are almost there if it's a problem you can use the trick
outlined w/ the other poster's 90-degree pattern--cut mating corners on
alternate sides or if the stock is clear and matches well simply make a
cut and flip over and continue from a single piece. If grain is
distinct that doesn't work so well from grain matching, of course...

In a nutshell, it can be done but requires a seriously good setup -- oh,
and you'll want to clamp the workpieces going thru 'cuz they _will_ want
to slide on the face of the miter gauge/sled fence.

--

On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 09:20:13 -0500, knuttle wrote:

I don't make boxes, but routinely do stretchers and picture frames on
the table saw. I use a gauge similar to this one at Rockler

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...miter%20gauges


Since these gauges have fixed 90 degree angles it takes one source of
error from the cut.

Interesting. And reasonably priced.

When next I need to make frames I may well try such device.

I don't have to tell you accurate angles are only half the battle, the
sides must be precisely the same length to get good miters.

*Everything* must be damn nigh perfect ...

Thx,
Peetie

On 12/11/2011 7:12 PM, Peetie Wheatstraw wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 09:20:13 -0500, wrote:

I don't make boxes, but routinely do stretchers and picture frames on
the table saw. I use a gauge similar to this one at Rockler

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...miter%20gauges


Since these gauges have fixed 90 degree angles it takes one source of
error from the cut.

Interesting. And reasonably priced.

When next I need to make frames I may well try such device.

I don't have to tell you accurate angles are only half the battle, the
sides must be precisely the same length to get good miters.

*Everything* must be damn nigh perfect ...

Thx,
Peetie

When I posted earlier I could not find what I wanted and posted
something similar.

I don't know if this is the same brand but this is what I have. I have
modified it so the gauge is more in the middle of the bar that runs in
the table saw slot.

With the modifications. I have as much bar in the slot which ever way I
need to put the gauge on the saw. (While it says you can clamp you
piece to the back of the gauge, I find it more accurate to flip the
gauge to get the direction on the angle.)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/90-Degree-Do...-/120791622919

The unit being a molded piece retains the 90 degree angle, even if it
accidently gets knocked off of the saw. (I realize no one would ever do
anything like that but just in case)

As for accuracy of the gauge I believe matches any other type of miter
gauge and pobably a lot better the most even the much more expensive.
It is quick to set up and easy to use.

With the gauge it has been years since I botched a frame because of bad
miters.

On Dec 10, 8:46*pm, Peetie Wheatstraw
wrote:
Anybody into making "box(es)" with mitres cut onna table saw?

I'm thinking of making a couple cremation urns in that fashion. Someone
might know a trick or 2?? I couldn't find any free plans ...

Thx,
Peetie

If you are going to do thos a lot you might look into a Dubby. Seeing
this guy (the inventor) do miters at tradeshows is amazing how precise
he does 4, 6, 8 sided frames or boxes. Very good little sled.

http://www.in-lineindustries.com/index.html

On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 11:52:20 -0600, dpb wrote:

As opposed to the other responses, I presume you mean cutting miters on
flat, wide stock to make box sides rather than picture frame stock
across the stock.

Correct.

It's certainly doable; I've done it a fair amount but the saw has to be
set up verrrry well. I could _not_ do it on the first old contractors
saw as the arbor mount wasn't quite parallel so on a 45 the blade wasn't
in plane w/ the table accurately enough. The PM Model 66 takes care of
that problem.

NB as well that the miter gauge or cutting sled used also has to be
right as you have both angles in play. There are fancy ways to measure
whether you have the 45 angle or not; I don't bother but simply use a
test cut and measure the 90 of the resulting pieces. At most this is a
slight adjustment as again the Model 66 is solid enough as to be
essentially perfect once set up once.

You, kind sir, are in possession of a -real- table saw. I have but an
old Craftsman, but that makes it more challenging.

BTW, once you are almost there if it's a problem you can use the trick
outlined w/ the other poster's 90-degree pattern--cut mating corners on
alternate sides or if the stock is clear and matches well simply make a
cut and flip over and continue from a single piece. If grain is
distinct that doesn't work so well from grain matching, of course...

In a nutshell, it can be done but requires a seriously good setup -- oh,
and you'll want to clamp the workpieces going thru 'cuz they _will_ want
to slide on the face of the miter gauge/sled fence.

It's true, one really needs a near perfect setup but ...

Years ago, as an experiment, I cut some 10 x 4" pieces from one-by
hardwood, set the blade to 45 degrees and cut miters on the 10"
side, all but the last maybe 1/8" (so I could turn each piece
around and rip-miter the other side). The corners of the glued-up
result were rounded and other embellishments were made on a
router table. Added a bottom piece, finished, and it was like
a vase for artificial flowers. Gave it to a friend's wife, she
liked it.

I guess I'll try something similar with the urns. It's crude,
but with a good deal of care, it will hopefully be effective
given the tools/skills available.

Thanks,
Peetie

On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 11:52:20 -0600, dpb wrote:

....
In a nutshell, it can be done but requires a seriously good setup -- oh,
and you'll want to clamp the workpieces going thru 'cuz they _will_ want
to slide on the face of the miter gauge/sled fence.

It's true, one really needs a near perfect setup but ...

Years ago, as an experiment, I cut some 10 x 4" pieces from one-by
hardwood, set the blade to 45 degrees and cut miters on the 10"
side, all but the last maybe 1/8" (so I could turn each piece
around and rip-miter the other side). The corners of the glued-up
result were rounded and other embellishments were made on a
router table. Added a bottom piece, finished, and it was like
a vase for artificial flowers. Gave it to a friend's wife, she
liked it.

I guess I'll try something similar with the urns. It's crude,
but with a good deal of care, it will hopefully be effective
given the tools/skills available.
....

If you could do that well enough seems pretty much like you answered
your own question...

One last point--you can ease glue up on angled sides with either splines
or biscuits. You can cut splines on the TS by simply lowering the blade
and reversing the stock after the miters are cut and have the perfect
complementary angle automagically...

OBTW--use a sled and you don't have a problem of the narrow edge sliding
under the fence that was the problem previously w/ the ripping of the
second edge. Or, turn the stock over and position the fence on the
other side of the blade.

--

Neat! I'll definitely keep this in mind.

I would never buy something like this from ebay without a good
recommendation from an actual user.

Thanks,
Peetie

On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 21:30:53 -0500, knuttle wrote:

When I posted earlier I could not find what I wanted and posted
something similar.

I don't know if this is the same brand but this is what I have. I have
modified it so the gauge is more in the middle of the bar that runs in
the table saw slot.

With the modifications. I have as much bar in the slot which ever way I
need to put the gauge on the saw. (While it says you can clamp you
piece to the back of the gauge, I find it more accurate to flip the
gauge to get the direction on the angle.)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/90-Degree-Do...-/120791622919

The unit being a molded piece retains the 90 degree angle, even if it
accidently gets knocked off of the saw. (I realize no one would ever do
anything like that but just in case)

As for accuracy of the gauge I believe matches any other type of miter
gauge and pobably a lot better the most even the much more expensive.
It is quick to set up and easy to use.

With the gauge it has been years since I botched a frame because of bad
miters.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 07:43:46 -0600, dpb wrote:

If you could do that well enough seems pretty much like you answered
your own question...

"well enough" for my buddies wife *could* be a far cry from truly
respectable wood joinery.

One last point--you can ease glue up on angled sides with either splines
or biscuits. You can cut splines on the TS by simply lowering the blade
and reversing the stock after the miters are cut and have the perfect
complementary angle automagically...

Not equipped for biscuits. Splines are an interesting idea, but I'm
not really following your instructions (above) as well as I'd like.

OBTW--use a sled and you don't have a problem of the narrow edge sliding
under the fence that was the problem previously w/ the ripping of the
second edge.

I just built a sled similar to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69t6MFCUobw.
The blade slot is zero-clearance: I can't tilt the blade.

Or, turn the stock over and position the fence on the
other side of the blade.

My cheapo TS won't allow this.

Thanks,
Peetie

On 12/12/2011 3:56 PM, Peetie Wheatstraw wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 07:43:46 -0600, wrote:
....

... You can cut splines on the TS by simply lowering the blade
and reversing the stock after the miters are cut and have the perfect
complementary angle automagically...

Not equipped for biscuits. Splines are an interesting idea, but I'm
not really following your instructions (above) as well as I'd like.
....


For four-sided boxes--if more than four sides doesn't work as simply.

------------
Stock /
\/
--------/\ __________ Table
\
Blade

In the rough sketch above, the stock has been mitered and the blade now
lowered and then passed over w/ the bevel against the blade. For a 45
the blade is then precisely perpendicular to the face. You can figure
out ways for other angles but it isn't as trivial.

--

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:45:50 -0600, dpb wrote:

------------
Stock /
\/
--------/\ __________ Table
\
Blade

In the rough sketch above, the stock has been mitered and the blade now
lowered and then passed over w/ the bevel against the blade. For a 45
the blade is then precisely perpendicular to the face. You can figure
out ways for other angles but it isn't as trivial.

Then 'tis to be an "internal spline", not visable on the finished
work-piece. Neat! I'll give it a try.

Many Thanks,
Peetie