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A Prognostication
Doug Winterburn wrote in
eb.com: On 8/2/2011 8:13 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote: Doug Winterburn wrote: The way I'm explaining all this to the kids is: Your mother and I want to spend about $10,000 per month, but we only have $5,800 a month income. So we (your parents generation)have opened up a $17 trillion (by 2013) credit account in your and your kids (our grandkids) names so we can spend the extra $4200 per month. -------------------------------------------------------- What a crock of crap. Nice try, but no cigar. Fight TWO (2) wars on borrowed money and the sacrifice of less than 5% of the country. Create a prescription drug insurance plan on borrowed money. Cut taxes so that additional debt is created. Well it's time to start paying the tab, so shut the f**k up and start paying your bill. Unless of course you want to be a free loader and let the next generation pay YOUR bill. Lew Glad to see you're so up on the current debt situation and how we got here, Lew. Been paying my share and much of others for some time. Getting tired of your kind of crap - very tired. Doug, wake up. You can't cut income and increase expenses like Bush did and expect to NOT increase the deficit. It's obvious from all statistics that wealth has increased mnuch more for the wealthy than for the not so wealthy. The only rightful way is to correct that imbalance or prepare for a revolution. -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
A Prognostication
On 8/2/2011 8:27 PM, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 11:34:42 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: Read that as: "I have a Domino, he does notgloat,gloat!"g Ackshully ... I have three Festool sanders, a TS75, and a CT22E, all with tails. For at total of four and 32/32nd tailed Festools (that's five for you, Leon) ;). Lets see here,,, I have a Rotex, the rectangle 400 Finish Sander, TS75, Domino, and CT22. That's 5. I musta been thinking about the ones I was wishing for. ;~) I sure could have used the fancy Domino drill with eccentric off-set when crawling around under the islands and installing slides on my last drawer installment. I can just see it. Karl moves into Leon's neighbourhood. Every morning they meet in the middle of the street. Here's the scenario: Hi Karl, how's it going today? Fine Karl says, how are you doing? Fine says Leon. Karl says, Leon, can I borrow your Rotex sander? Sure says Leon, help yourself. BTW Karl, can I borrow that Domino drill of yours? Sure, says Karl, feel free to go get it. we'll meet again tomorrow morning and exchange what we borrowed today for something else. Great says Leon, have a good day. You too Leon, says Karl. And so goes the Karl/Leon daily swap meet. Close except Karl is going to build next door with his garage next to mine. Then we build a connecting hallway between the garages. That lot is still available, Karl. |
A Prognostication
On 8/3/2011 6:56 AM, Han wrote:
Doug wrote in eb.com: On 8/2/2011 8:13 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote: Doug Winterburn wrote: The way I'm explaining all this to the kids is: Your mother and I want to spend about $10,000 per month, but we only have $5,800 a month income. So we (your parents generation)have opened up a $17 trillion (by 2013) credit account in your and your kids (our grandkids) names so we can spend the extra $4200 per month. -------------------------------------------------------- What a crock of crap. Nice try, but no cigar. Fight TWO (2) wars on borrowed money and the sacrifice of less than 5% of the country. Create a prescription drug insurance plan on borrowed money. Cut taxes so that additional debt is created. Well it's time to start paying the tab, so shut the f**k up and start paying your bill. Unless of course you want to be a free loader and let the next generation pay YOUR bill. Lew Glad to see you're so up on the current debt situation and how we got here, Lew. Been paying my share and much of others for some time. Getting tired of your kind of crap - very tired. Doug, wake up. You can't cut income and increase expenses like Bush did and expect to NOT increase the deficit. It's obvious from all statistics that wealth has increased mnuch more for the wealthy than for the not so wealthy. The only rightful way is to correct that imbalance or prepare for a revolution. So penalize the wealthy for being wealthy. Not much of an incentive to try to get ahead. Seems that penalizing the wealthy for being fruitful would create a lower class that does not want to produce and rather wait for hand outs. |
A Prognostication
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
: On 8/3/2011 6:56 AM, Han wrote: Doug wrote in eb.com: On 8/2/2011 8:13 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote: Doug Winterburn wrote: The way I'm explaining all this to the kids is: Your mother and I want to spend about $10,000 per month, but we only have $5,800 a month income. So we (your parents generation)have opened up a $17 trillion (by 2013) credit account in your and your kids (our grandkids) names so we can spend the extra $4200 per month. -------------------------------------------------------- What a crock of crap. Nice try, but no cigar. Fight TWO (2) wars on borrowed money and the sacrifice of less than 5% of the country. Create a prescription drug insurance plan on borrowed money. Cut taxes so that additional debt is created. Well it's time to start paying the tab, so shut the f**k up and start paying your bill. Unless of course you want to be a free loader and let the next generation pay YOUR bill. Lew Glad to see you're so up on the current debt situation and how we got here, Lew. Been paying my share and much of others for some time. Getting tired of your kind of crap - very tired. Doug, wake up. You can't cut income and increase expenses like Bush did and expect to NOT increase the deficit. It's obvious from all statistics that wealth has increased mnuch more for the wealthy than for the not so wealthy. The only rightful way is to correct that imbalance or prepare for a revolution. So penalize the wealthy for being wealthy. Not much of an incentive to try to get ahead. Seems that penalizing the wealthy for being fruitful would create a lower class that does not want to produce and rather wait for hand outs. Nonsense. Right now the codes are penalizing regular wage earners with much higher taxation then those of us who earn income from capital gains and dividends. Of course, that was enacted to stimulate investment, and perhaps rightly so. But the law of unintended (I hope) consequences is indeed now heaping tax upon tax on wage earners (income tax, SS tax, medicare tax etc), while unearned income doesn't have that. Hey, I shouldn't complain, really. I am retired ... -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
A Prognostication
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
: On 8/2/2011 8:27 PM, Dave wrote: On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 11:34:42 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: Read that as: "I have a Domino, he does notgloat,gloat!"g Ackshully ... I have three Festool sanders, a TS75, and a CT22E, all with tails. For at total of four and 32/32nd tailed Festools (that's five for you, Leon) ;). Lets see here,,, I have a Rotex, the rectangle 400 Finish Sander, TS75, Domino, and CT22. That's 5. I musta been thinking about the ones I was wishing for. ;~) I sure could have used the fancy Domino drill with eccentric off-set when crawling around under the islands and installing slides on my last drawer installment. I can just see it. Karl moves into Leon's neighbourhood. Every morning they meet in the middle of the street. Here's the scenario: Hi Karl, how's it going today? Fine Karl says, how are you doing? Fine says Leon. Karl says, Leon, can I borrow your Rotex sander? Sure says Leon, help yourself. BTW Karl, can I borrow that Domino drill of yours? Sure, says Karl, feel free to go get it. we'll meet again tomorrow morning and exchange what we borrowed today for something else. Great says Leon, have a good day. You too Leon, says Karl. And so goes the Karl/Leon daily swap meet. Close except Karl is going to build next door with his garage next to mine. Then we build a connecting hallway between the garages. That lot is still available, Karl. Too bad that isn't right next to me. I'd love to have you guys next doors. -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
A Prognostication
On 8/3/2011 6:56 AM, Han wrote:
Doug, wake up. You can't cut income and increase expenses like Bush did and expect to NOT increase the deficit. It's obvious from all statistics that wealth has increased mnuch more for the wealthy than for the not so wealthy. The only rightful way is to correct that imbalance or prepare for a revolution. I'm sorta thinking that the root cause of any current "imbalance" is NOT based on the tax code so, instead of trying to fix it with the tax code, doesn't it make more sense to get at the root cause? -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 4/15/2010 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
A Prognostication
Lew Hodgett wrote:
What a crock of crap. Nice try, but no cigar. Fight TWO (2) wars on borrowed money and the sacrifice of less than 5% of the country. Sorry, I don't understand your meaning. Create a prescription drug insurance plan on borrowed money. Democratic Congress passed Part D. It's consistent with their beliefs. Cut taxes so that additional debt is created. Every time taxes have been cut, revenue has increased. Debt is caused by spending and nothing else. No spending, no debt. It really is as simple as that. Well it's time to start paying the tab, so shut the f**k up and start paying your bill. I agree to the extent that the debt has to be paid. But it is almost useless to pay on the debt without reining in spending. Unless of course you want to be a free loader and let the next generation pay YOUR bill. Um, not exactly. Many parts of the national debt are billed as "investments," that is, we obligate ourselves for something now to be paid for later. Here are a couple of examples: * Infrastructure, i.e., so-called "shovel ready" projects * Grants and subsidies for so-called "Green Energy" projects |
A Prognostication
Swingman wrote:
On 8/3/2011 6:56 AM, Han wrote: Doug, wake up. You can't cut income and increase expenses like Bush did and expect to NOT increase the deficit. It's obvious from all statistics that wealth has increased mnuch more for the wealthy than for the not so wealthy. The only rightful way is to correct that imbalance or prepare for a revolution. I'm sorta thinking that the root cause of any current "imbalance" is NOT based on the tax code so, instead of trying to fix it with the tax code, doesn't it make more sense to get at the root cause? But you'll run into the maxim that anybody who wants to solve the "root cause" of any problem needs to be shot. In the head. Then the body cremated and the ashes scattered. Take no chances. |
A Prognostication
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 07:40:57 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: Close except Karl is going to build next door with his garage next to mine. Then we build a connecting hallway between the garages. That lot is still available, Karl. Good idea as I have heard this "The weather in Houston is great 78 degrees all the time, now why anyone would want to go outside is with tht is beyond me." |
A Prognostication
On 8/3/2011 9:32 AM, Markem wrote:
Good idea as I have heard this "The weather in Houston is great 78 degrees all the time, now why anyone would want to go outside is with tht is beyond me." Two shop fans, blowing 105 degree, 90% humidity laden air, and the temptation to come in from the shop the past couple of days is overwhelming. AKA why I'm wasting time in the office at this time of day ... -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 4/15/2010 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
A Prognostication
Swingman wrote in
: On 8/3/2011 6:56 AM, Han wrote: Doug, wake up. You can't cut income and increase expenses like Bush did and expect to NOT increase the deficit. It's obvious from all statistics that wealth has increased mnuch more for the wealthy than for the not so wealthy. The only rightful way is to correct that imbalance or prepare for a revolution. I'm sorta thinking that the root cause of any current "imbalance" is NOT based on the tax code so, instead of trying to fix it with the tax code, doesn't it make more sense to get at the root cause? The root cause is very simple. Congresscritters want to get reelected, so they'll do anything to get people and now businesses to give to their reelection campaign. And with anything, I mean anything. That includes sending federal money to the brother-in-law's sister's grandfather's business. The only real way is to make then congresscritters designate the source of the money they send out. -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
A Prognostication
"HeyBub" wrote in
m: Lew Hodgett wrote: What a crock of crap. Nice try, but no cigar. Fight TWO (2) wars on borrowed money and the sacrifice of less than 5% of the country. Sorry, I don't understand your meaning. Create a prescription drug insurance plan on borrowed money. Democratic Congress passed Part D. It's consistent with their beliefs. Cut taxes so that additional debt is created. Every time taxes have been cut, revenue has increased. Debt is caused by spending and nothing else. No spending, no debt. It really is as simple as that. Well it's time to start paying the tab, so shut the f**k up and start paying your bill. I agree to the extent that the debt has to be paid. But it is almost useless to pay on the debt without reining in spending. Or enhancing revenues. Why should big corporations be able to post enormous profits and pay no income taxes? Etc, etc. For one thing, hiding moneys overseas should be abolished. I had to pay tax on overseas moneys, so why shouldn't "they"? Unless of course you want to be a free loader and let the next generation pay YOUR bill. Um, not exactly. Many parts of the national debt are billed as "investments," that is, we obligate ourselves for something now to be paid for later. Here are a couple of examples: * Infrastructure, i.e., so-called "shovel ready" projects * Grants and subsidies for so-called "Green Energy" projects Some of that is totally legit, but the source of the funds should be identified. I have to take out a mortgage or loan, and when I do, I make sure I can pay for it, i.e. I can tell you which funds I'll use to pay (but I'm not going to be specific here). Congress should do the same. Borrowing isn't bad in itself, but there are limits. See, I'm a fiscally conservative liberal ... -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
A Prognostication
On 8/2/2011 11:13 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Cut taxes so that additional debt is created. Except since at least JFK, cutting taxes has ALWAYS resulted in increased revenues. So how is it that increased revenues creates more debt? -- Jack You can't Tax your way into Prosperity! http://jbstein.com |
A Prognostication
Jack Stein wrote in :
On 8/2/2011 11:13 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote: Cut taxes so that additional debt is created. Except since at least JFK, cutting taxes has ALWAYS resulted in increased revenues. Fudged statistics, I'm sure. At least it defies logic that by cutting income you'll get more money in. So how is it that increased revenues creates more debt? Only if you spend the same money more than once. A favorite in some state governments ... -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
A Prognostication
On 8/3/2011 9:15 AM, Han wrote:
Right now the codes are penalizing regular wage earners with much higher taxation then those of us who earn income from capital gains and dividends. Of course, that was enacted to stimulate investment, and perhaps rightly so. But the law of unintended (I hope) consequences is indeed now heaping tax upon tax on wage earners (income tax, SS tax, medicare tax etc), while unearned income doesn't have that. Hey, I shouldn't complain, really. I am retired ... Right now, regular wage earners ain't paying dick, compared to above regular wage earners: In fact, many of the lower group, like my son, received income taxes for doing less. Tax Year 2008 Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid Top 1% 38.02% Top 5% 58.72% Top 10% 69.94% Top 25% 86.34% Top 50% 97.30% Bottom 50% 2.7% Personally, I think everyone should pay the exact same rate, with the exception of those that earn so little it would cost more to process their taxes than they would pay, say $50 in taxes could be ignored. Everyone else needs an opportunity to participate. At any rate, your statement that "regular wage earners" are penalized by tax codes is not only wrong, but 180° wrong. -- Jack You can't legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. http://jbstein.com |
A Prognostication
On 8/3/2011 11:13 AM, Han wrote:
.... Why should big corporations be able to post enormous profits and pay no income taxes? Etc, etc. For one thing, hiding moneys overseas should be abolished. I had to pay tax on overseas moneys, so why shouldn't "they"? Corporations don't pay taxes, period, unless they have a printing press in their basement, they get ALL their money from YOU. You give your money to the corporation and SOME of them pay (GE paid ZERO, XOM paid $36BILLION, or ZERO % vs 45%) The problem of course is first, most people are too freaking dumb to realize business collects ALL it's money to pay taxes from YOU, and secondly tax codes are so ****ed up some, like GE pay zip, whilst some, like EXXON-Mobil pay a ton. -- Jack Conservatives believe every day is the Fourth of July, Liberals believe every day is April 15. http://jbstein.com |
A Prognostication
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 07:40:57 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 8/2/2011 8:27 PM, Dave wrote: On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 11:34:42 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: Read that as: "I have a Domino, he does notgloat,gloat!"g Ackshully ... I have three Festool sanders, a TS75, and a CT22E, all with tails. For at total of four and 32/32nd tailed Festools (that's five for you, Leon) ;). Lets see here,,, I have a Rotex, the rectangle 400 Finish Sander, TS75, Domino, and CT22. That's 5. I musta been thinking about the ones I was wishing for. ;~) I sure could have used the fancy Domino drill with eccentric off-set when crawling around under the islands and installing slides on my last drawer installment. I can just see it. Karl moves into Leon's neighbourhood. Every morning they meet in the middle of the street. Here's the scenario: Hi Karl, how's it going today? Fine Karl says, how are you doing? Fine says Leon. Karl says, Leon, can I borrow your Rotex sander? Sure says Leon, help yourself. BTW Karl, can I borrow that Domino drill of yours? Sure, says Karl, feel free to go get it. we'll meet again tomorrow morning and exchange what we borrowed today for something else. Great says Leon, have a good day. You too Leon, says Karl. And so goes the Karl/Leon daily swap meet. Close except Karl is going to build next door with his garage next to mine. Then we build a connecting hallway between the garages. That lot is still available, Karl. Yabbut, how will you two be when you both live together, not just work together? -- Win first, Fight later. --martial principle of the Samurai |
A Prognostication
On 8/3/2011 11:21 AM, Han wrote:
Jack Stein wrote: Lew Hodgett wrote: Cut taxes so that additional debt is created. Except since at least JFK, cutting taxes has ALWAYS resulted in increased revenues. Fudged statistics, I'm sure. How are you sure? It's just a dollar amount of taxes collected. How do you fudge that? At least it defies logic that by cutting income you'll get more money in. It defies logic to think otherwise, but, just for you, to quote the Joint Economic Committee of the US Congress: ***** High marginal tax rates discourage work effort, saving, and investment, and promote tax avoidance and tax evasion. A reduction in high marginal tax rates would boost long term economic growth, and reduce the attractiveness of tax shelters and other forms of tax avoidance. The economic benefits of ERTA were summarized by President Clinton's Council of Economic Advisers in 1994: "It is undeniable that the sharp reduction in taxes in the early 1980s was a strong impetus to economic growth." ***** This was their take on how it happens. That it happens is hard to contest, but if you got some secrete information besides just being sure the stats were "fudged" feel free to cite. So how is it that increased revenues creates more debt? Only if you spend the same money more than once. A favorite in some state governments ... So you agree, increased revenues do not increase debt, but spending does. Now all you need is to figure out that confiscatory, convoluted, inequitable, unethical tax laws do not boost economic growth, ergo less tax revenue. -- Jack A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. http://jbstein.com |
A Prognostication
On 8/3/2011 8:16 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in : On 8/2/2011 8:27 PM, Dave wrote: On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 11:34:42 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: Read that as: "I have a Domino, he does notgloat,gloat!"g Ackshully ... I have three Festool sanders, a TS75, and a CT22E, all with tails. For at total of four and 32/32nd tailed Festools (that's five for you, Leon) ;). Lets see here,,, I have a Rotex, the rectangle 400 Finish Sander, TS75, Domino, and CT22. That's 5. I musta been thinking about the ones I was wishing for. ;~) I sure could have used the fancy Domino drill with eccentric off-set when crawling around under the islands and installing slides on my last drawer installment. I can just see it. Karl moves into Leon's neighbourhood. Every morning they meet in the middle of the street. Here's the scenario: Hi Karl, how's it going today? Fine Karl says, how are you doing? Fine says Leon. Karl says, Leon, can I borrow your Rotex sander? Sure says Leon, help yourself. BTW Karl, can I borrow that Domino drill of yours? Sure, says Karl, feel free to go get it. we'll meet again tomorrow morning and exchange what we borrowed today for something else. Great says Leon, have a good day. You too Leon, says Karl. And so goes the Karl/Leon daily swap meet. Close except Karl is going to build next door with his garage next to mine. Then we build a connecting hallway between the garages. That lot is still available, Karl. Too bad that isn't right next to me. I'd love to have you guys next doors. Back at'cha Han. |
A Prognostication
On 8/3/2011 9:32 AM, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 07:40:57 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: Close except Karl is going to build next door with his garage next to mine. Then we build a connecting hallway between the garages. That lot is still available, Karl. Good idea as I have heard this "The weather in Houston is great 78 degrees all the time, now why anyone would want to go outside is with tht is beyond me." 78 degrees at least twice a day, all the time. |
A Prognostication
In article , Han wrote:
Nonsense. Right now the codes are penalizing regular wage earners with much higher taxation then those of us who earn income from capital gains and dividends. Of course, that was enacted to stimulate investment, and perhaps rightly so. But the law of unintended (I hope) consequences is indeed now heaping tax upon tax on wage earners (income tax, SS tax, medicare tax etc), while unearned income doesn't have that. Which is why we should stop taxing income altogether, and tax consumption instead. |
A Prognostication
On 8/3/2011 10:03 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 8/3/2011 9:32 AM, Markem wrote: Good idea as I have heard this "The weather in Houston is great 78 degrees all the time, now why anyone would want to go outside is with tht is beyond me." Two shop fans, blowing 105 degree, 90% humidity laden air, and the temptation to come in from the shop the past couple of days is overwhelming. AKA why I'm wasting time in the office at this time of day ... LOL, waiting for 3:00 pm to roll around, before heading back out??? You see when you build you house and shop next to mine, facing east, you get a couple hours of morning sun and right about now the garage is completely shadowed till tomorrow morning. |
A Prognostication
On 8/3/2011 11:11 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 07:40:57 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 8/2/2011 8:27 PM, Dave wrote: On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 11:34:42 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: Read that as: "I have a Domino, he does notgloat,gloat!"g Ackshully ... I have three Festool sanders, a TS75, and a CT22E, all with tails. For at total of four and 32/32nd tailed Festools (that's five for you, Leon) ;). Lets see here,,, I have a Rotex, the rectangle 400 Finish Sander, TS75, Domino, and CT22. That's 5. I musta been thinking about the ones I was wishing for. ;~) I sure could have used the fancy Domino drill with eccentric off-set when crawling around under the islands and installing slides on my last drawer installment. I can just see it. Karl moves into Leon's neighbourhood. Every morning they meet in the middle of the street. Here's the scenario: Hi Karl, how's it going today? Fine Karl says, how are you doing? Fine says Leon. Karl says, Leon, can I borrow your Rotex sander? Sure says Leon, help yourself. BTW Karl, can I borrow that Domino drill of yours? Sure, says Karl, feel free to go get it. we'll meet again tomorrow morning and exchange what we borrowed today for something else. Great says Leon, have a good day. You too Leon, says Karl. And so goes the Karl/Leon daily swap meet. Close except Karl is going to build next door with his garage next to mine. Then we build a connecting hallway between the garages. That lot is still available, Karl. Yabbut, how will you two be when you both live together, not just work together? -- Win first, Fight later. --martial principle of the Samurai We think a lot the same way, I don't think it would be a problem. |
A Prognostication
Jack Stein wrote in
: On 8/3/2011 9:15 AM, Han wrote: Right now the codes are penalizing regular wage earners with much higher taxation then those of us who earn income from capital gains and dividends. Of course, that was enacted to stimulate investment, and perhaps rightly so. But the law of unintended (I hope) consequences is indeed now heaping tax upon tax on wage earners (income tax, SS tax, medicare tax etc), while unearned income doesn't have that. Hey, I shouldn't complain, really. I am retired ... Right now, regular wage earners ain't paying dick, compared to above regular wage earners: In fact, many of the lower group, like my son, received income taxes for doing less. Tax Year 2008 Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid Top 1% 38.02% Top 5% 58.72% Top 10% 69.94% Top 25% 86.34% Top 50% 97.30% Bottom 50% 2.7% Personally, I think everyone should pay the exact same rate, with the exception of those that earn so little it would cost more to process their taxes than they would pay, say $50 in taxes could be ignored. Everyone else needs an opportunity to participate. At any rate, your statement that "regular wage earners" are penalized by tax codes is not only wrong, but 180° wrong. Wait a minute. You're using statistics that divide the taxes paid among people. That is totally inappropriate for my statement, whether true or not. US Median income is ~$45K (roughly picked from wikipedia). On that income you'd pay ~$6900, or ~15% taxes. That's the same as on all unearned (long-term) income. That means that half the people with earned income pay more income taxes than those who subsist on unearned income. Add to that that they also pay SS, medicare taxes and state income taxes, and it is very clear earned income is taxed more heavily than unearned income. Now, as far as a flat tax, that'll never fly, unless a) there are differnt scales at different income levels, and b) all the exceptions are taken out of the IRS regulations. -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
A Prognostication
On 8/3/2011 12:22 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
In , wrote: Nonsense. Right now the codes are penalizing regular wage earners with much higher taxation then those of us who earn income from capital gains and dividends. Of course, that was enacted to stimulate investment, and perhaps rightly so. But the law of unintended (I hope) consequences is indeed now heaping tax upon tax on wage earners (income tax, SS tax, medicare tax etc), while unearned income doesn't have that. Which is why we should stop taxing income altogether, and tax consumption instead. Sales taxes are good, flat tax would be good. What we have now sucks, big time. -- Jack Mr. Geithner, May I Borrow Your TurboTax? http://jbstein.com |
A Prognostication
Jack Stein wrote in
: On 8/3/2011 11:13 AM, Han wrote: .... Why should big corporations be able to post enormous profits and pay no income taxes? Etc, etc. For one thing, hiding moneys overseas should be abolished. I had to pay tax on overseas moneys, so why shouldn't "they"? Corporations don't pay taxes, period, unless they have a printing press in their basement, they get ALL their money from YOU. You give your money to the corporation and SOME of them pay (GE paid ZERO, XOM paid $36BILLION, or ZERO % vs 45%) The problem of course is first, most people are too freaking dumb to realize business collects ALL it's money to pay taxes from YOU, and secondly tax codes are so ****ed up some, like GE pay zip, whilst some, like EXXON-Mobil pay a ton. You know which part I agree with. Corporations do pay taxes, whether extorted from you or me. But when they take my money and DON'T pay taxes, I should get upset, methinks. That is why I amtotally for tax simplifications. Let's make it sort of flat rate, no exceptions (well, I do like my property tax and mortgage deductions). -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
A Prognostication
On 8/3/2011 8:15 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in : On 8/3/2011 6:56 AM, Han wrote: Doug wrote in eb.com: On 8/2/2011 8:13 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote: Doug Winterburn wrote: The way I'm explaining all this to the kids is: Your mother and I want to spend about $10,000 per month, but we only have $5,800 a month income. So we (your parents generation)have opened up a $17 trillion (by 2013) credit account in your and your kids (our grandkids) names so we can spend the extra $4200 per month. -------------------------------------------------------- What a crock of crap. Nice try, but no cigar. Fight TWO (2) wars on borrowed money and the sacrifice of less than 5% of the country. Create a prescription drug insurance plan on borrowed money. Cut taxes so that additional debt is created. Well it's time to start paying the tab, so shut the f**k up and start paying your bill. Unless of course you want to be a free loader and let the next generation pay YOUR bill. Lew Glad to see you're so up on the current debt situation and how we got here, Lew. Been paying my share and much of others for some time. Getting tired of your kind of crap - very tired. Doug, wake up. You can't cut income and increase expenses like Bush did and expect to NOT increase the deficit. It's obvious from all statistics that wealth has increased mnuch more for the wealthy than for the not so wealthy. The only rightful way is to correct that imbalance or prepare for a revolution. So penalize the wealthy for being wealthy. Not much of an incentive to try to get ahead. Seems that penalizing the wealthy for being fruitful would create a lower class that does not want to produce and rather wait for hand outs. Nonsense. Right now the codes are penalizing regular wage earners with much higher taxation then those of us who earn income from capital gains and dividends. Of course, that was enacted to stimulate investment, and perhaps rightly so. But the law of unintended (I hope) consequences is indeed now heaping tax upon tax on wage earners (income tax, SS tax, medicare tax etc), while unearned income doesn't have that. Hey, I shouldn't complain, really. I am retired ... The only fair taxation would be simply that "everyone" pay the exact same taxes each year. Every one would pay, no deductions, and every one would seriously expect much much more out of the elected. No victim, and no privileged tax payers The elected would also pay the same taxes and have the same benefits/insurance as every one else. The only advantage that the elected would have is that they are paid the same as now. Once there are no special benefits to winning the lottery, uh er uh an election the unqualified would make room for the more qualified. Once the elected loose the capability of buying votes the problem goes away. Basically our elected officials precisely fit the profile of the average lottery winner. The average lottery winner continues to gamble, and in approximately 10 years have lost all their winnings and are in debt. Does that sound like our lottery winner/ uh er uh elected officials? |
A Prognostication
Jack Stein wrote in :
snipped Jack, we agree (I think) that confiscatory taxes are a no-no, that tax simplification and elimination of loopholes and crazy "shelters" woukld be good, and, moreover, that we should spend as we generate income (as governments). Now, then we should have a really good set of REALLY wise men and women sit down and figure out how to get to a zero deficit. I am sure that will need to include revenue enhancement, since abolishing Medicare/Aid or the Pentagon is not to the country's best interests. Agriculture give-aways, perhaps eliminating those would be good, etc, etc. -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
A Prognostication
In article , Jack Stein wrote:
[...] At any rate, your statement that "regular wage earners" are penalized by tax codes is not only wrong, but 180° wrong. No, it's not. You're ignoring the fact that "regular wage earners" pay social security taxes on most or all of their income, even if they pay no personal income tax at all, while those with unearned income (i.e. dividends, capital gains, and interest) do not. A great many wage earners pay substantially more in social security tax than they do in personal income tax. I need look no further than my own tax return for an example: in 2010, we paid $2500 more in social security tax than we paid in personal income tax. They are *both* taxes on income, but only one is actually *called* that. And only one is actually paid by those whose income is entirely, or primarily, from dividends and capital gains. Those who actually *work* for a living pay *both*. And that's fundamentally unfair. All other factors (deductions, exemptions, etc.) being equal, someone with $100K annual income solely from dividends pays significantly less in *total* taxes than someone with $100K annual income solely from salary. That's not right. |
A Prognostication
On 8/3/2011 11:36 AM, Jack Stein wrote:
On 8/3/2011 12:22 PM, Doug Miller wrote: In , wrote: Nonsense. Right now the codes are penalizing regular wage earners with much higher taxation then those of us who earn income from capital gains and dividends. Of course, that was enacted to stimulate investment, and perhaps rightly so. But the law of unintended (I hope) consequences is indeed now heaping tax upon tax on wage earners (income tax, SS tax, medicare tax etc), while unearned income doesn't have that. Which is why we should stop taxing income altogether, and tax consumption instead. Sales taxes are good, flat tax would be good. What we have now sucks, big time. I realistically don't think a sales tax would be enough to defend ourselves. If you have another economic down turn and sales drop we don't have money for defense. Look at how most police departments suffer and crime goes up when spending cuts are applied. Every one should pay exactly the same tax, no income tax, including non citizens working here. |
A Prognostication
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A Prognostication
In article , Han wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in om: I agree to the extent that the debt has to be paid. But it is almost useless to pay on the debt without reining in spending. Or enhancing revenues. Why should big corporations be able to post enormous profits and pay no income taxes? Etc, etc. For one thing, hiding moneys overseas should be abolished. I had to pay tax on overseas moneys, so why shouldn't "they"? Han, what makes you think that corporations pay taxes at all? *No* business pays taxes -- their *customers* pay the taxes. Corporate income tax is simply another cost of doing business, just like utilities, wages and salaries, raw materials, office supplies, or any other business expense, and like those other business expenses, the tax is passed along to the customer, incorporated into the price of the goods or services the corporation provides. Every time you buy anything, a portion of what you pay for it goes to pay the corporate income taxes of the manufacturer who made it, the retailer who sold it to you, and the trucking company who moved it from one to the other. |
A Prognostication
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
: On 8/3/2011 8:15 AM, Han wrote: Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in : On 8/3/2011 6:56 AM, Han wrote: Doug wrote in eb.com: On 8/2/2011 8:13 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote: Doug Winterburn wrote: The way I'm explaining all this to the kids is: Your mother and I want to spend about $10,000 per month, but we only have $5,800 a month income. So we (your parents generation)have opened up a $17 trillion (by 2013) credit account in your and your kids (our grandkids) names so we can spend the extra $4200 per month. -------------------------------------------------------- What a crock of crap. Nice try, but no cigar. Fight TWO (2) wars on borrowed money and the sacrifice of less than 5% of the country. Create a prescription drug insurance plan on borrowed money. Cut taxes so that additional debt is created. Well it's time to start paying the tab, so shut the f**k up and start paying your bill. Unless of course you want to be a free loader and let the next generation pay YOUR bill. Lew Glad to see you're so up on the current debt situation and how we got here, Lew. Been paying my share and much of others for some time. Getting tired of your kind of crap - very tired. Doug, wake up. You can't cut income and increase expenses like Bush did and expect to NOT increase the deficit. It's obvious from all statistics that wealth has increased mnuch more for the wealthy than for the not so wealthy. The only rightful way is to correct that imbalance or prepare for a revolution. So penalize the wealthy for being wealthy. Not much of an incentive to try to get ahead. Seems that penalizing the wealthy for being fruitful would create a lower class that does not want to produce and rather wait for hand outs. Nonsense. Right now the codes are penalizing regular wage earners with much higher taxation then those of us who earn income from capital gains and dividends. Of course, that was enacted to stimulate investment, and perhaps rightly so. But the law of unintended (I hope) consequences is indeed now heaping tax upon tax on wage earners (income tax, SS tax, medicare tax etc), while unearned income doesn't have that. Hey, I shouldn't complain, really. I am retired ... The only fair taxation would be simply that "everyone" pay the exact same taxes each year. Every one would pay, no deductions, and every one would seriously expect much much more out of the elected. No victim, and no privileged tax payers The elected would also pay the same taxes and have the same benefits/insurance as every one else. The only advantage that the elected would have is that they are paid the same as now. Once there are no special benefits to winning the lottery, uh er uh an election the unqualified would make room for the more qualified. Once the elected loose the capability of buying votes the problem goes away. Basically our elected officials precisely fit the profile of the average lottery winner. The average lottery winner continues to gamble, and in approximately 10 years have lost all their winnings and are in debt. Does that sound like our lottery winner/ uh er uh elected officials? If you mean get rid of all the convoluted exceptions etc, than I'm all for it. I have "grown" with the growth of the complexity of our income taxes, even though I use a computer program for the calculations now, rather than paper and pencil as in the '70s. But I couldn't do it if I had to start anew cold turkey-like. The elected now are more concerned with re-election than with doing the "right" thing. At least now we can use FB & twitter to tell them, and round up help to tell them ... -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
A Prognostication
Doug Miller wrote:
In , Jack wrote: [...] At any rate, your statement that "regular wage earners" are penalized by tax codes is not only wrong, but 180° wrong. No, it's not. You're ignoring the fact that "regular wage earners" pay social security taxes on most or all of their income, even if they pay no personal income tax at all, while those with unearned income (i.e. dividends, capital gains, and interest) do not. A great many wage earners pay substantially more in social security tax than they do in personal income tax. I need look no further than my own tax return for an example: in 2010, we paid $2500 more in social security tax than we paid in personal income tax. They are *both* taxes on income, but only one is actually *called* that. And only one is actually paid by those whose income is entirely, or primarily, from dividends and capital gains. Those who actually *work* for a living pay *both*. And that's fundamentally unfair. All other factors (deductions, exemptions, etc.) being equal, someone with $100K annual income solely from dividends pays significantly less in *total* taxes than someone with $100K annual income solely from salary. That's not right. Good point Doug. I never thought of that. That does not even take into account that long term capital gains are taxed at a significantly lower rate. Bill |
A Prognostication
Leon wrote:
On 8/3/2011 11:36 AM, Jack Stein wrote: On 8/3/2011 12:22 PM, Doug Miller wrote: In , wrote: Nonsense. Right now the codes are penalizing regular wage earners with much higher taxation then those of us who earn income from capital gains and dividends. Of course, that was enacted to stimulate investment, and perhaps rightly so. But the law of unintended (I hope) consequences is indeed now heaping tax upon tax on wage earners (income tax, SS tax, medicare tax etc), while unearned income doesn't have that. Which is why we should stop taxing income altogether, and tax consumption instead. Sales taxes are good, flat tax would be good. What we have now sucks, big time. I realistically don't think a sales tax would be enough to defend ourselves. If you have another economic down turn and sales drop we don't have money for defense. Look at how most police departments suffer and crime goes up when spending cuts are applied. Every one should pay exactly the same tax, no income tax, including non citizens working here. That's easy to say if you can afford it, unless you mean the same tax rate. |
A Prognostication
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A Prognostication
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in news:l6-
: Every one should pay exactly the same tax, no income tax, including non citizens working here. I was subject to exactly the same tax schedules before I became a citizen as after. Luckily, the wages went nicely up after, but that was not because I became a citizen. I just earned it grin. -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
A Prognostication
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A Prognostication
On 8/3/2011 11:55 AM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote: On 8/3/2011 11:36 AM, Jack Stein wrote: On 8/3/2011 12:22 PM, Doug Miller wrote: In , wrote: Nonsense. Right now the codes are penalizing regular wage earners with much higher taxation then those of us who earn income from capital gains and dividends. Of course, that was enacted to stimulate investment, and perhaps rightly so. But the law of unintended (I hope) consequences is indeed now heaping tax upon tax on wage earners (income tax, SS tax, medicare tax etc), while unearned income doesn't have that. Which is why we should stop taxing income altogether, and tax consumption instead. Sales taxes are good, flat tax would be good. What we have now sucks, big time. I realistically don't think a sales tax would be enough to defend ourselves. If you have another economic down turn and sales drop we don't have money for defense. Look at how most police departments suffer and crime goes up when spending cuts are applied. Every one should pay exactly the same tax, no income tax, including non citizens working here. That's easy to say if you can afford it, unless you mean the same tax rate. The same rate, I live here so I pay "x" dollars, same as my neighbor. It would not happen over night obliviously but there would be no favoritism votes. |
A Prognostication
On 8/3/2011 11:51 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in : The elected now are more concerned with re-election than with doing the "right" thing. At least now we can use FB& twitter to tell them, and round up help to tell them ... Correction! The elected are "only" concerned with re-election. There is no right and wrong in government. |
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