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#1
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
The reason is apparently no money. I lay odds that there were way too
many "may cause cancer in California" labels on every thing. http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theloo...ol-sits-unused |
#2
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
On Jun 21, 6:10*pm, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
The reason is apparently no money. *I lay odds that there were way too many "may cause cancer in California" labels on every thing. http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theloo...log_thelookout... Don't get me started. I am a non-smoker. Haven't taken a puff in 25 years. But what the hell is the government doing with this current campaign to put morbid photos on cigarette packs? Do our legislators have nothing to do? If people want to smoke themselves to death it is their business - theirs alone. Ditto drinking. This BS of regulating stuff like this is taking energy away from fixing our country!! |
#3
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
"RonB" wrote in message ... But what the hell is the government doing with this current campaign to put morbid photos on cigarette packs? Do our legislators have nothing to do? If people want to smoke themselves to death it is their business - theirs alone. Ditto drinking. I've had no problem in the past with the govt. making it illegal to smoke in places like airliners, theatres, restaurants and so on (I really don't miss that eye-watering stench in every public place). But this latest campaign is just pointless, anyone who hasn't heard the message by now is past saving. Anti-smoking has become a lobby and an industry in its own right, self-sustaining beyond the point of common sense. So long as smokers are prevented from exhaling toxic smoke around non-smokers I figure that's the extent of the government's legitimate interest in the issue. |
#5
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
RonB wrote:
On Jun 21, 6:10 pm, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: The reason is apparently no money. I lay odds that there were way too many "may cause cancer in California" labels on every thing. http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theloo...log_thelookout... Don't get me started. I am a non-smoker. Haven't taken a puff in 25 years. But what the hell is the government doing with this current campaign to put morbid photos on cigarette packs? Do our legislators have nothing to do? If people want to smoke themselves to death it is their business - theirs alone. Ditto drinking. Yep, I know someone who, over the course of recent months, lost a good job, retirement, house, and spouse over Vokda, or whatever was handy. I wouldn't call it drinking though, I would call it alcoholism--there was nothing social about the mechanism. They are about 4 weeks sober (record of 3 months)--most recent treatment cost: tens of thousands. This BS of regulating stuff like this is taking energy away from fixing our country!! |
#6
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
On 6/22/2011 1:44 PM, RonB wrote:
On Jun 21, 6:10 pm, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: The reason is apparently no money. I lay odds that there were way too many "may cause cancer in California" labels on every thing. http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theloo...log_thelookout... Don't get me started. I am a non-smoker. Haven't taken a puff in 25 years. But what the hell is the government doing with this current campaign to put morbid photos on cigarette packs? Do our legislators have nothing to do? If people want to smoke themselves to death it is their business - theirs alone. Ditto drinking. This BS of regulating stuff like this is taking energy away from fixing our country!! The problem with letting the idiots continue to smoke is that it costs you and I. We pay for health insurance and much more than our share because of the smokers. Let the insurance companies price accordingly, that should be enough of a persuasion to drop the habit. |
#7
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
"RonB" wrote in message ... On Jun 21, 6:10 pm, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: The reason is apparently no money. I lay odds that there were way too many "may cause cancer in California" labels on every thing. http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theloo...log_thelookout... Don't get me started. I am a non-smoker. Haven't taken a puff in 25 years. But what the hell is the government doing with this current campaign to put morbid photos on cigarette packs? Do our legislators have nothing to do? If people want to smoke themselves to death it is their business - theirs alone. Ditto drinking. This BS of regulating stuff like this is taking energy away from fixing our country!! How can you fix the country, when government and major corporations shipped all their manufacturing overseas. Everyone is fooling themselves when they talk of creating jobs. There are next to none to make, the Chinese and Indians got them all. US has to emulate England and Europe, they lost much of their manufacturing in the 1950s and 1960s --- the jobs crossed the Atlantic and went to the US, now they have crossed the Pacific and left the US. England and Europe had to change the way they did business and to concentrate on high quality manufacturing and leave the cheap crap to the Asians. |
#8
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says... On 6/22/2011 1:44 PM, RonB wrote: On Jun 21, 6:10 pm, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: The reason is apparently no money. I lay odds that there were way too many "may cause cancer in California" labels on every thing. http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theloo...log_thelookout... Don't get me started. I am a non-smoker. Haven't taken a puff in 25 years. But what the hell is the government doing with this current campaign to put morbid photos on cigarette packs? Do our legislators have nothing to do? If people want to smoke themselves to death it is their business - theirs alone. Ditto drinking. This BS of regulating stuff like this is taking energy away from fixing our country!! The problem with letting the idiots continue to smoke is that it costs you and I. We pay for health insurance and much more than our share because of the smokers. Let the insurance companies price accordingly, that should be enough of a persuasion to drop the habit. I've got no problem with letting the insurance companies price accordingly, but pre-Obamacare I thought they did price accordingly. |
#9
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
"J. Clarke" wrote I've got no problem with letting the insurance companies price accordingly, but pre-Obamacare I thought they did price accordingly. Perhaps some do, but our group policy at work does not differentiate. |
#10
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
On 6/22/2011 8:06 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article_vGdnZLfhdUu9Z_TnZ2dnUVZ5tidnZ2d@giganews. com, lcb11211 @swbelldotnet says... On 6/22/2011 1:44 PM, RonB wrote: On Jun 21, 6:10 pm, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: The reason is apparently no money. I lay odds that there were way too many "may cause cancer in California" labels on every thing. http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theloo...log_thelookout... Don't get me started. I am a non-smoker. Haven't taken a puff in 25 years. But what the hell is the government doing with this current campaign to put morbid photos on cigarette packs? Do our legislators have nothing to do? If people want to smoke themselves to death it is their business - theirs alone. Ditto drinking. This BS of regulating stuff like this is taking energy away from fixing our country!! The problem with letting the idiots continue to smoke is that it costs you and I. We pay for health insurance and much more than our share because of the smokers. Let the insurance companies price accordingly, that should be enough of a persuasion to drop the habit. I've got no problem with letting the insurance companies price accordingly, but pre-Obamacare I thought they did price accordingly. Purchased as an individual you do get penalized for bad habits but for those that are on a group plan or have insurance through their employer every one is treated the same, they all technically pitch in to carry the slacker, so to speak. |
#11
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
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#12
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
EXT wrote:
How can you fix the country, when government and major corporations shipped all their manufacturing overseas. Everyone is fooling themselves when they talk of creating jobs. There are next to none to make, the Chinese and Indians got them all. US has to emulate England and Europe, they lost much of their manufacturing in the 1950s and 1960s --- the jobs crossed the Atlantic and went to the US, now they have crossed the Pacific and left the US. England and Europe had to change the way they did business and to concentrate on high quality manufacturing and leave the cheap crap to the Asians. Lower taxes. Yep, the U.S. has the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the civilized world. Boeing moved its corporate headquarters from Seattle to Chicago(!) to escape the obscene Washington state taxes, it's no wonder that many companies would shift their activities to a more friendly tax jurisdiction. You may have a point about there not being jobs to create. The Bush administration continues to take heat over the fewer jobs that were created compared to the Clinton years. But with unemployment under 5%, the jobs may have been there but there wasn't anybody available to be hired! Now, seemingly, as you point out, we have the reverse: Plenty of available workers but no jobs. |
#13
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
HeyBub wrote:
You may have a point about there not being jobs to create. The Bush administration continues to take heat over the fewer jobs that were created compared to the Clinton years. But with unemployment under 5%, the jobs may have been there but there wasn't anybody available to be hired! You're kidding - right? Is your memory so short that you don't recall that the jobs that were abailable were low paying, service sector jobs? Beyond that - when was the last time that you heard American business was crying about not being able to find an adequate pool of talented, qualified employees? Your statement above Hey Bub, refelects nothing but a completele distortion of what we all lived through. I'm sorry if my response is insulting - it's not intended to be, but it is a complete revisionist view of recent history. Now, seemingly, as you point out, we have the reverse: Plenty of available workers but no jobs. D'OH??? You are really making this statement? -- -Mike- |
#14
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
Mike Marlow wrote:
HeyBub wrote: You may have a point about there not being jobs to create. The Bush administration continues to take heat over the fewer jobs that were created compared to the Clinton years. But with unemployment under 5%, the jobs may have been there but there wasn't anybody available to be hired! You're kidding - right? Is your memory so short that you don't recall that the jobs that were abailable were low paying, service sector jobs? Whatever. Point is, everybody that was employable was employed! Classically, economists have held that anything below about 6% was "full employment." That is, 6% of the people looking for work are, in fact, unemployable: They are arsonists on parole, have no skills or an impossible work ethic, smell funny, etc. Beyond that - when was the last time that you heard American business was crying about not being able to find an adequate pool of talented, qualified employees? It's self-evident. Every year, EVERY year, the H1B quota is filled. If there were sufficient local talent - at the right price - there would be a surplus of H1B talent slots. Your statement above Hey Bub, refelects nothing but a completele distortion of what we all lived through. I'm sorry if my response is insulting - it's not intended to be, but it is a complete revisionist view of recent history. What revisionist history? Did I misrepresent or misquote the economic conditions of the first six Bush years? If so, I'll eagerly apologize when you correct me. Now, seemingly, as you point out, we have the reverse: Plenty of available workers but no jobs. D'OH??? You are really making this statement? Of course. Again, it's self-evident. We have in excess of 9% unemployment (~16% underemployment). That alone implies more workers than jobs. Do you have a different interpretation? If so, I'd love to hear it. |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
HeyBub wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote: HeyBub wrote: You may have a point about there not being jobs to create. The Bush administration continues to take heat over the fewer jobs that were created compared to the Clinton years. But with unemployment under 5%, the jobs may have been there but there wasn't anybody available to be hired! You're kidding - right? Is your memory so short that you don't recall that the jobs that were abailable were low paying, service sector jobs? Whatever. Point is, everybody that was employable was employed! Classically, economists have held that anything below about 6% was "full employment." That is, 6% of the people looking for work are, in fact, unemployable: They are arsonists on parole, have no skills or an impossible work ethic, smell funny, etc. Employed at jobs that paid a fraction of what they had been making, and that do not support raising a family. You really consider that to be good? Beyond that - when was the last time that you heard American business was crying about not being able to find an adequate pool of talented, qualified employees? It's self-evident. Every year, EVERY year, the H1B quota is filled. If there were sufficient local talent - at the right price - there would be a surplus of H1B talent slots. Sorry - what is H1B? Your statement above Hey Bub, refelects nothing but a completele distortion of what we all lived through. I'm sorry if my response is insulting - it's not intended to be, but it is a complete revisionist view of recent history. What revisionist history? Did I misrepresent or misquote the economic conditions of the first six Bush years? If so, I'll eagerly apologize when you correct me. You did misrepresent by stating that things were so good. They were not in fact. People were working at service sector jobs that paid a fraction of what their previous jobs paid, and did not provide enough to raise a family on a single income. To have stated how good things were and that there were not people to be hired is a complete misrepresentation of events. Now, seemingly, as you point out, we have the reverse: Plenty of available workers but no jobs. D'OH??? You are really making this statement? Of course. Again, it's self-evident. We have in excess of 9% unemployment (~16% underemployment). That alone implies more workers than jobs. Do you have a different interpretation? If so, I'd love to hear it. No - it was just such an obvious thing. I guess I didn't get the purpose of the statement. -- -Mike- |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
Mike Marlow wrote:
HeyBub wrote: Whatever. Point is, everybody that was employable was employed! Classically, economists have held that anything below about 6% was "full employment." That is, 6% of the people looking for work are, in fact, unemployable: They are arsonists on parole, have no skills or an impossible work ethic, smell funny, etc. Employed at jobs that paid a fraction of what they had been making, and that do not support raising a family. You really consider that to be good? The issue was not on "good" employment; the issue was on employment period. That is, the difference is not between $7.25/hr and $18.00/hr, the difference is between $7.25/hr and nothing. One CAN maintain a family on the minimum wage - perhaps by working two jobs and living in a hovel. It's not upper-class, but it's doable. It's self-evident. Every year, EVERY year, the H1B quota is filled. If there were sufficient local talent - at the right price - there would be a surplus of H1B talent slots. Sorry - what is H1B? "The H-1B is a non-immigrant visa in the United States under the Immigration and Nationality Act. It allows U.S. employers to temporarily employ foreign workers in specialty occupations. The employer has to certify that there are no domestic applicants available with the requisite skills. Currently, there is a limit of 65,000 H1B visas available. The demand is always greater than the quota above allows. What revisionist history? Did I misrepresent or misquote the economic conditions of the first six Bush years? If so, I'll eagerly apologize when you correct me. You did misrepresent by stating that things were so good. They were not in fact. People were working at service sector jobs that paid a fraction of what their previous jobs paid, and did not provide enough to raise a family on a single income. To have stated how good things were and that there were not people to be hired is a complete misrepresentation of events. I did not say things were good - you inferred it. Nevertheless I assert that however bad you think the 1st six years of the Bush administration were, they were still far, far better than what's now taking place. Further, I suggest that having a menial job is better than having no job. |
#17
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
HeyBub wrote:
The issue was not on "good" employment; the issue was on employment period. That is, the difference is not between $7.25/hr and $18.00/hr, the difference is between $7.25/hr and nothing. One CAN maintain a family on the minimum wage - perhaps by working two jobs and living in a hovel. It's not upper-class, but it's doable. That's where your observation is skewed. No - a minimum wage job is not proof of a good economy. You may be comfortable with where you are, but assigning other people to certain substandard levels of earnings is not your privledge. I'm sorry, but I have to contend that your take on this is just plain wrong. "The H-1B is a non-immigrant visa in the United States under the Immigration and Nationality Act. It allows U.S. employers to temporarily employ foreign workers in specialty occupations. The employer has to certify that there are no domestic applicants available with the requisite skills. Currently, there is a limit of 65,000 H1B visas available. The demand is always greater than the quota above allows. Employer certifies? 'Nuff said... I did not say things were good - you inferred it. Nevertheless I assert that however bad you think the 1st six years of the Bush administration were, they were still far, far better than what's now taking place. Further, I suggest that having a menial job is better than having no job. I don't thing the Bush years were necessarily bad. I don't think the Clinton years were necessarily bad. They were at best, reflecdtions of things changing. I only took exception to the claim that they were good because the unemployement numbers were lower. Those numbers only reflect one small, myopic view of things. To base an opinion on just those - which is what you put forward, is extreemly shortsighted. -- -Mike- |
#18
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
Mike Marlow wrote:
I don't thing the Bush years were necessarily bad. I don't think the Clinton years were necessarily bad. They were at best, reflecdtions of things changing. I only took exception to the claim that they were good because the unemployement numbers were lower. Those numbers only reflect one small, myopic view of things. To base an opinion on just those - which is what you put forward, is extreemly shortsighted. I didn't base my observation solely on unemployment numbers. It was you who glommed on to that. During the first three-quarters of the Bush years: * Unemployment fell below 5% * The stock market climbed above 12,000 * There were 26 quarters of uninterrupted growth, averaging 2.8% * Number of jobs grew at 6.5% * Average salaries grew at 1.2% * Consumer spending grew at 72%(!) * Low to non-existent inflation * Three tax cuts * Expiration of the assault-weapons ban (although I'm not sure what that had to do with economic conditions) * and so on And again, all this in spite of two wars, Katrina, and 9-11. |
#19
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
HeyBub wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote: I don't thing the Bush years were necessarily bad. I don't think the Clinton years were necessarily bad. They were at best, reflecdtions of things changing. I only took exception to the claim that they were good because the unemployement numbers were lower. Those numbers only reflect one small, myopic view of things. To base an opinion on just those - which is what you put forward, is extreemly shortsighted. I didn't base my observation solely on unemployment numbers. It was you who glommed on to that. During the first three-quarters of the Bush years: * Unemployment fell below 5% * The stock market climbed above 12,000 * There were 26 quarters of uninterrupted growth, averaging 2.8% * Number of jobs grew at 6.5% * Average salaries grew at 1.2% * Consumer spending grew at 72%(!) * Low to non-existent inflation * Three tax cuts * Expiration of the assault-weapons ban (although I'm not sure what that had to do with economic conditions) * and so on And again, all this in spite of two wars, Katrina, and 9-11. Sorry if I misunderstood but it seemed rather clear that you were both implying and directly stating that a decrease in unemployment, despite the fact that the jobs people were taking were now much lower in pay than what they were used to, was good. Get a couple more low paying jobs to make up for it, right? -- -Mike- |
#20
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
Mike Marlow wrote:
Sorry if I misunderstood but it seemed rather clear that you were both implying and directly stating that a decrease in unemployment, despite the fact that the jobs people were taking were now much lower in pay than what they were used to, was good. Get a couple more low paying jobs to make up for it, right? Right. Or develop more valuable skills. Of course I'm looking at it from the employer's point of view. People should get paid what they're worth in productivity, not what they think they deserve. If I have to pay someone $7.25/hr to, say, sew a shirt but I can sell that shirt for only $5.00, I'll quit employing people to sew shirts! |
#21
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
HeyBub wrote:
Right. Or develop more valuable skills. What a foolish statement to defend your previous statements. Of course I'm looking at it from the employer's point of view. People should get paid what they're worth in productivity, not what they think they deserve. Who said anything about what they think they're worth? We are talking about a lot of industry sectors and jobs that simply dried up and moved away. It does not matter what you think those people were worth, high paying jobs gushed out of this country, to be replaced by near minimum wage offerings. I'm sure you'd have a lot to say if you found yourself in that situation. If I have to pay someone $7.25/hr to, say, sew a shirt but I can sell that shirt for only $5.00, I'll quit employing people to sew shirts! I'm quite sure I'll live to hear you bitching about those who think you should provide your services for far less than you believe them to be worth. |
#22
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
Mike Marlow wrote:
HeyBub wrote: Right. Or develop more valuable skills. What a foolish statement to defend your previous statements. Of course I'm looking at it from the employer's point of view. People should get paid what they're worth in productivity, not what they think they deserve. Who said anything about what they think they're worth? We are talking about a lot of industry sectors and jobs that simply dried up and moved away. It does not matter what you think those people were worth, high paying jobs gushed out of this country, to be replaced by near minimum wage offerings. Ips facto, the job was only worth the lesser amount paid to foreign workers. In the shirt example, if I can hire 9-year old girls in Bangladesh to sew a shirt for twenty-five cents that I can sell for $5.00, I (and the girls) come out ahead. By definition, the "high paying jobs" whose absence you lament were TOO high paying. I'm sure you'd have a lot to say if you found yourself in that situation. Sure I would. But economic decisions - or governmental regulations - should not be made based on a single, unique circumstance. I'm quite sure I'll live to hear you bitching about those who think you should provide your services for far less than you believe them to be worth. You can adjust your product or service up to quality or down to price; that's probably what I'd do. For example, if I were an exterminator and hired to remove termites, I could dance around the perimeter of the house wearing only a loin-cloth while mumbling unintelligible gibberish and waving chicken feathers in the air. Then I would say to the home owner: "It's done. They'll be gone in a month. No guarantees. $500 please." |
#23
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 01:23:41 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote: HeyBub wrote: Right. Or develop more valuable skills. What a foolish statement to defend your previous statements. Someday, you guys will be able to tell the difference between a troll and a regular poster. -- Invest in America: Buy a CONgresscritter today! |
#24
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
HeyBub wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote: HeyBub wrote: Right. Or develop more valuable skills. What a foolish statement to defend your previous statements. Of course I'm looking at it from the employer's point of view. People should get paid what they're worth in productivity, not what they think they deserve. Who said anything about what they think they're worth? We are talking about a lot of industry sectors and jobs that simply dried up and moved away. It does not matter what you think those people were worth, high paying jobs gushed out of this country, to be replaced by near minimum wage offerings. Ips facto, the job was only worth the lesser amount paid to foreign workers. In the shirt example, if I can hire 9-year old girls in Bangladesh to sew a shirt for twenty-five cents that I can sell for $5.00, I (and the girls) come out ahead. By definition, the "high paying jobs" whose absence you lament were TOO high paying. I'm sure you'd have a lot to say if you found yourself in that situation. Sure I would. But economic decisions - or governmental regulations - should not be made based on a single, unique circumstance. I'm quite sure I'll live to hear you bitching about those who think you should provide your services for far less than you believe them to be worth. You can adjust your product or service up to quality or down to price; that's probably what I'd do. For example, if I were an exterminator and hired to remove termites, I could dance around the perimeter of the house wearing only a loin-cloth while mumbling unintelligible gibberish and waving chicken feathers in the air. Then I would say to the home owner: "It's done. They'll be gone in a month. No guarantees. $500 please." I'll give you this - you make me laugh - in a good way. Don't loose that whatever-it-is about you. -- -Mike- |
#25
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OT Brand new California high school to sit empty.
On 6/25/2011 2:35 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
HeyBub wrote: Mike Marlow wrote: HeyBub wrote: Right. Or develop more valuable skills. What a foolish statement to defend your previous statements. Of course I'm looking at it from the employer's point of view. People should get paid what they're worth in productivity, not what they think they deserve. Who said anything about what they think they're worth? We are talking about a lot of industry sectors and jobs that simply dried up and moved away. It does not matter what you think those people were worth, high paying jobs gushed out of this country, to be replaced by near minimum wage offerings. Ips facto, the job was only worth the lesser amount paid to foreign workers. In the shirt example, if I can hire 9-year old girls in Bangladesh to sew a shirt for twenty-five cents that I can sell for $5.00, I (and the girls) come out ahead. By definition, the "high paying jobs" whose absence you lament were TOO high paying. I'm sure you'd have a lot to say if you found yourself in that situation. Sure I would. But economic decisions - or governmental regulations - should not be made based on a single, unique circumstance. I'm quite sure I'll live to hear you bitching about those who think you should provide your services for far less than you believe them to be worth. You can adjust your product or service up to quality or down to price; that's probably what I'd do. For example, if I were an exterminator and hired to remove termites, I could dance around the perimeter of the house wearing only a loin-cloth while mumbling unintelligible gibberish and waving chicken feathers in the air. Then I would say to the home owner: "It's done. They'll be gone in a month. No guarantees. $500 please." I'll give you this - you make me laugh - in a good way. Don't loose that whatever-it-is about you. I simply don't have all the time in the world to follow this group very closely, so I'll use my special "Evelyn Woodhead Sped Reddin'" (sic) techniques to scan the posts for something that is either on-topic (so right there you know I'm skipping about 90% of 'em), from a particular contributor, or is otherwise interesting, and any given post that doesn't make the cut gets *maybe* a half-second of my time. HeyBub isn't very on-topic, and I can't say I have the patience to understand or care about his (or anybody else's) politics, but I do enjoy his sense of humor so I tend to slow down and look for a good laugh when I get to one of his posts. :-) -- Free bad advice available here. To reply, eat the taco. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/ |
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