Ok, this is actually a woodworking request for help.

I am building a Shaker Hall Table. Plans are from Woodsmith Issue 61,
for
those who want to follow along.

The plan calls for the front and back aprons to have a groove along
the length of the apron. This groove will hold the cross pieces that
will support the top and the drawers.

Here's the problem:

The plans state to cut the groove to 9/16" in the aprons to allow for
a 1/2 tenon
of the cross pieces and a 1/16 for glue. Not a problem. Then it states
that you should
cut a 1/4 tenon in the aprons to join it to the legs. This tenon has
to be centered
on the apron.

The aprons are 3/4" thick. If I cut a groove 9/16" in the apron, that
will reduce
the thickness to 11/16" at that point. There is no way I can center a
1/4" tenon
without reducing the thickness of the tenon at the point where it
meets the long groove.

My thought is that the 1/2" tenon of the cross piece should be
reduced 1/16"
to allow for the glue. I can't see that it would affect the
structural strength of
the base. There are two side aprons that should be sufficient for
that. The
cross tenons are there to merely to attach the top and support the
drawers.

What's the take here? Do I just

1) Ignore the "requirement" to make the 1/2" apron groove 9/16"?
2) Shorten the cross tenon?
3) Reduce the apron tenon? - I'd cut the tenon first, then
do the long groove.

MJ

On 6/13/2011 7:24 PM, wrote:
Ok, this is actually a woodworking request for help.

I am building a Shaker Hall Table. Plans are from Woodsmith Issue 61,
for
those who want to follow along.

The plan calls for the front and back aprons to have a groove along
the length of the apron. This groove will hold the cross pieces that
will support the top and the drawers.

Here's the problem:

The plans state to cut the groove to 9/16" in the aprons to allow for
a 1/2 tenon
of the cross pieces and a 1/16 for glue. Not a problem. Then it states
that you should
cut a 1/4 tenon in the aprons to join it to the legs. This tenon has
to be centered
on the apron.

The aprons are 3/4" thick. If I cut a groove 9/16" in the apron, that
will reduce
the thickness to 11/16" at that point. There is no way I can center a
1/4" tenon
without reducing the thickness of the tenon at the point where it
meets the long groove.

My thought is that the 1/2" tenon of the cross piece should be
reduced 1/16"
to allow for the glue. I can't see that it would affect the
structural strength of
the base. There are two side aprons that should be sufficient for
that. The
cross tenons are there to merely to attach the top and support the
drawers.

What's the take here? Do I just

1) Ignore the "requirement" to make the 1/2" apron groove 9/16"?
2) Shorten the cross tenon?
3) Reduce the apron tenon? - I'd cut the tenon first, then
do the long groove.

MJ
Looking at that issue my self to get a better idea of what the problem
is. ;~)

Dont worry about cutting that 9/16" groove, let it go through the
tennon. The end tennon is going to be large enough that the small
amount that you remove should not be a problem.

That said I think if you made that apron grove 1/4" deep, not 9/16" deep
you would still be in good shape.

I built that table several years ago, but I don't remember the specifics.
If I can find the plans I'll refresh my memory and let you know what I did.


wrote in message
...
Ok, this is actually a woodworking request for help.

I am building a Shaker Hall Table. Plans are from Woodsmith Issue 61,
for
those who want to follow along.

The plan calls for the front and back aprons to have a groove along
the length of the apron. This groove will hold the cross pieces that
will support the top and the drawers.

Here's the problem:

The plans state to cut the groove to 9/16" in the aprons to allow for
a 1/2 tenon
of the cross pieces and a 1/16 for glue. Not a problem. Then it states
that you should
cut a 1/4 tenon in the aprons to join it to the legs. This tenon has
to be centered
on the apron.

The aprons are 3/4" thick. If I cut a groove 9/16" in the apron, that
will reduce
the thickness to 11/16" at that point. There is no way I can center a
1/4" tenon
without reducing the thickness of the tenon at the point where it
meets the long groove.

My thought is that the 1/2" tenon of the cross piece should be
reduced 1/16"
to allow for the glue. I can't see that it would affect the
structural strength of
the base. There are two side aprons that should be sufficient for
that. The
cross tenons are there to merely to attach the top and support the
drawers.

What's the take here? Do I just

1) Ignore the "requirement" to make the 1/2" apron groove 9/16"?
2) Shorten the cross tenon?
3) Reduce the apron tenon? - I'd cut the tenon first, then
do the long groove.

MJ

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:12:05 -0700, Lew Hodgett wrote:

wrote:


The plans state to cut the groove to 9/16" in the aprons to allow for
a 1/2 tenon
of the cross pieces and a 1/16 for glue.

1/16 gap for glue?

Not in my boat yard.


Amen to that! Did the magazine really say that? I don't have access to
a copy but find it hard to believe. If true, Woodsmith needs to hire a
woodworker as proofreader :-).

The only "gap" I've ever left for glue is to cut a mortise a little
deeper than the length of the tenon so excess glue can puddle at the
bottom.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

The only "gap" I've ever left for glue is to cut a mortise a little
deeper than the length of the tenon so excess glue can puddle at the
bottom.

Gap is my "language". The recommend a 1/16" extra on the
long groove to allow for the gap. The tenon is 1/2".

MJ

On 6/14/2011 11:04 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:12:05 -0700, Lew Hodgett wrote:

wrote:


The plans state to cut the groove to 9/16" in the aprons to allow for
a 1/2 tenon
of the cross pieces and a 1/16 for glue.

1/16 gap for glue?

Not in my boat yard.


Amen to that! Did the magazine really say that? I don't have access to
a copy but find it hard to believe. If true, Woodsmith needs to hire a
woodworker as proofreader :-).

The only "gap" I've ever left for glue is to cut a mortise a little
deeper than the length of the tenon so excess glue can puddle at the
bottom.


Issue 61 IIRC 1989. too late for the proof er.

To all,

I goofed up here. Happens when I was working off my memory
without looking at the plan.

The groove along the front apron is 5/16", not 9/16". This still
takes away 1/16 from the tenon at the end at the point the
groove cuts across the space.

The process they want to follow is the cut the groove first.
Then the tenon.

Hope that clears up some of the confusion. The point
remains, though on these plans. The tenon is a bit
"skinny" where the groove intersects it on the apron.

MJ

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 16:04:43 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:12:05 -0700, Lew Hodgett wrote:

wrote:


The plans state to cut the groove to 9/16" in the aprons to allow for
a 1/2 tenon
of the cross pieces and a 1/16 for glue.

1/16 gap for glue?

Not in my boat yard.

I want loose/slip-fit, but without slop in any direction. I don't
hammer tenons into mortises and feel it should not be done. The moist
glue swells the wood to take up any looseness.


Amen to that! Did the magazine really say that? I don't have access to
a copy but find it hard to believe. If true, Woodsmith needs to hire a
woodworker as proofreader :-).

I finished reading _The Home Machinist's Handbook_ last night and he
used "course" regarding threads in TWO TABLES, and "augar" in one
place. I wanted to scream. Are there no editors left in the world?


The only "gap" I've ever left for glue is to cut a mortise a little
deeper than the length of the tenon so excess glue can puddle at the
bottom.

Yeah, and I don't mind if I chamfer the ends of the tenons a skosh,
either.

--
To know the road ahead, ask those coming back.
-- Chinese Proverb

Well after confusing 9/16 for 5/16, I got an official
answer from WoodSmith:

--
On page 16 of issue 61, Figure 4a shows a
groove that's 1/2" wide and 5/16" deep.

After cutting that groove on the top and bottom
edge of the front and back apron, you are
instructed to cut a tenon on each end (Figures 5,6, and 7).

It's true, the groove will leave a shallow notch
the inside face of the tenon. However, this will
not alter the strength of the tenon and its glue joint.

--

Issue resolved. Thanks everyone for helping out and
at least looking at the request for assistance.

MJ