One of my 4-H wood working kids turned up with treated lumber for
making a bird house. It's the new stuff, AC2-- not CCA -- but I still
don't trust the new stuff.

I'm in the process of telling him why that is a bad idea, and to use
just about anything else instead -- even cheap pine with a good latex
exterior paint for protection.

Although it is touted as being "less toxic," that still doesn't put my
mind at ease. Personally, I wouldn't work with it indoors, use it with
animals (birds) or let kids handle it much. I certainly wouldn't want
to finish sand the stuff.

Am I being too cautious, as the kid's parents seem to think I am?

Indyrose

Reply on the wreck or to my "real" email at indyrose at milmac dot
com.

here is a link to one of the chemicals. make up your own
mind as to it's safety.

http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/ET/ethanolamine.html

If the pesticide industry is any indicator, NOTHING they
make is safe. First they took Chlordane off the market,
which I used freely around my property. So I bought
Dursban. Now that's banned. I also used a termite killer
that is no longer sold due to it's toxicity. At some point,
I think the industry will replace all their products as
safety concerns continue to pile up.


dave

Indyrose wrote:

One of my 4-H wood working kids turned up with treated lumber for
making a bird house. It's the new stuff, AC2-- not CCA -- but I still
don't trust the new stuff.

I'm in the process of telling him why that is a bad idea, and to use
just about anything else instead -- even cheap pine with a good latex
exterior paint for protection.

Although it is touted as being "less toxic," that still doesn't put my
mind at ease. Personally, I wouldn't work with it indoors, use it with
animals (birds) or let kids handle it much. I certainly wouldn't want
to finish sand the stuff.

Am I being too cautious, as the kid's parents seem to think I am?

Indyrose

Reply on the wreck or to my "real" email at indyrose at milmac dot
com.

In article ,
says...
If the pesticide industry is any indicator, NOTHING they
make is safe. First they took Chlordane off the market,
which I used freely around my property. So I bought
Dursban. Now that's banned. I also used a termite killer
that is no longer sold due to it's toxicity. At some point,
I think the industry will replace all their products as
safety concerns continue to pile up.


While some of the stuff is truly scary (i.e. DDT), a lot of the
banning is to protect people who use the stuff incorrectly. And
I have to wonder if somebody isn't seeing dollar signs on
product liability lawsuits.

There's no product more dangerous than an automobile when used
incorrectly. OK, maybe a motorcycle :-).

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

or an assault rifle... g

dave

Larry Blanchard wrote:
snip

There's no product more dangerous than an automobile when used
incorrectly. OK, maybe a motorcycle :-).

what about a Scary Sharp chisel, Larry? That can cause
grievous bodily harm!

dave

Larry Blanchard wrote:

There's no product more dangerous than an automobile when used
incorrectly. OK, maybe a motorcycle :-).

In article ,
says...
what about a Scary Sharp chisel, Larry? That can cause
grievous bodily harm!

But seldom to several people at once :-).

--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
. com...
here is a link to one of the chemicals. make up your own
mind as to it's safety.

http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/ET/ethanolamine.html

If the pesticide industry is any indicator, NOTHING they
make is safe.

Yes, now that Bayer has started marketing pesticides, I'm convinced aspirin
must be unsafe.

First they took Chlordane off the market,
which I used freely around my property. So I bought
Dursban. Now that's banned. I also used a termite killer
that is no longer sold due to it's toxicity.

I sure wish I had some Pentachlor wood preservative. My father had his
garage doors replaced after a hurricane in 1983, cheap, basic doors of
(untrested) pine frames with MDF panels. I was a teen then, and was
prepping and painting them, and first I prushed on some Pentachlor
preservative he'd bought. The doors were painted on the outside only
(though I later did paint one on the inside). Painted twice in the past 20
years (due for another painting now). The bottom couple of panels have been
under water for hours at a timethree or four times, and the bottom eight -
twelve inches of the doors have been soaked for hours in minor floods
probably a dozen times. The wood is in great condition, while I've replaced
all of the hardware once, the springs twice, and probably should replace a
few of the rollers again. It may wipe out all the wildlife in miles, give
downwind neighbors cancer and explain why the cat had that pesky extra head,
but, damn, it sure preserved that wood!

(I wore rubber gloves, a respirator and goggles when I applied the stuff,
and *still* got a drop spalshed in my eye. My father, a chemical engineer,
phoned while I was rinsing my eye out, and freaked out, wanted to come take
me to the ER.)


At some point,
I think the industry will replace all their products as
safety concerns continue to pile up.

I replaced the pesticide foggers I used regularly in my workshop with
lizards. Well, the lizards (geckos) moved in, and I found I no longer had
the recurring problem with crickets getting into my woodpile.

Imagine that. A toxic poison. Who'd a thought .

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message news:gzkxc.81663

I also used a termite killer
that is no longer sold due to it's toxicity.

the stuff they have now is not as effective. Can you
understand that bit of science, you smart-assed twit?

dave

CW wrote:

Imagine that. A toxic poison. Who'd a thought .

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message news:gzkxc.81663


I also used a termite killer
that is no longer sold due to it's toxicity.

Birdhouses are one of my specialties and I now mostly work with pine.
Surprising enough, even cedar is considered by many to be too toxic for birds. I
don't know anything about AC2 but I would not use it.

Neal


"Indyrose" wrote in message
m...
One of my 4-H wood working kids turned up with treated lumber for
making a bird house. It's the new stuff, AC2-- not CCA -- but I still
don't trust the new stuff.

I'm in the process of telling him why that is a bad idea, and to use
just about anything else instead -- even cheap pine with a good latex
exterior paint for protection.

Although it is touted as being "less toxic," that still doesn't put my
mind at ease. Personally, I wouldn't work with it indoors, use it with
animals (birds) or let kids handle it much. I certainly wouldn't want
to finish sand the stuff.

Am I being too cautious, as the kid's parents seem to think I am?

Indyrose

Reply on the wreck or to my "real" email at indyrose at milmac dot
com.

I don't like working with PT lumber, although I recently constructed a
park bench using it. You should work with it outdoors and with a
properly fitted dust mask. The splinters from PT wood are nasty and
take a long time to heal. For bird houses, I prefer pine. One pine
house is over 18 years old and still in use today--I think the tar
shingle on the roof helped preserve it. I also built a bat house,
made from pine.

I toiled for a while at a Wild Birds Unltd store. The manager/owner knew her
stuff and was vehemently against ANY finish on the wood, even those that are
"non-toxic" for humans. She felt that not only were the birds susceptible to
the treated wood itself but also to the outgassing that cannot be prevented.
Her recommendation was to use untreated, unfinished pine. Yes, it will
decay, but no, the birds won't.

Bob

"Indyrose" wrote in message
m...
One of my 4-H wood working kids turned up with treated lumber for
making a bird house. It's the new stuff, AC2-- not CCA -- but I still
don't trust the new stuff.

I'm in the process of telling him why that is a bad idea, and to use
just about anything else instead -- even cheap pine with a good latex
exterior paint for protection.

Although it is touted as being "less toxic," that still doesn't put my
mind at ease. Personally, I wouldn't work with it indoors, use it with
animals (birds) or let kids handle it much. I certainly wouldn't want
to finish sand the stuff.

Am I being too cautious, as the kid's parents seem to think I am?

Indyrose

Reply on the wreck or to my "real" email at indyrose at milmac dot
com.

In article ,
says...
I toiled for a while at a Wild Birds Unltd store. The manager/owner knew her
stuff and was vehemently against ANY finish on the wood, even those that are
"non-toxic" for humans. She felt that not only were the birds susceptible to
the treated wood itself but also to the outgassing that cannot be prevented.
Her recommendation was to use untreated, unfinished pine. Yes, it will
decay, but no, the birds won't.

You know Bob, my first inclination was that PT lumber was no good for
birds either. But then I was quickly reminded of the sparrows nesting
(and ****ting) under my deck. Maybe sparrows have a higher tolerance,
considering they have 3 nests tucked in between the PT joists.

We used to have robins too, but the damned sparrows chased them off.

Maybe it's time for a cat...
--
Regards,

Rick

(Remove the HIGH SPOTS for e-mail)

"Rick Chamberlain" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
I toiled for a while at a Wild Birds Unltd store. The manager/owner knew
her
stuff and was vehemently against ANY finish on the wood, even those that
are
"non-toxic" for humans. She felt that not only were the birds
susceptible to
the treated wood itself but also to the outgassing that cannot be
prevented.
Her recommendation was to use untreated, unfinished pine. Yes, it will
decay, but no, the birds won't.

You know Bob, my first inclination was that PT lumber was no good for
birds either. But then I was quickly reminded of the sparrows nesting
(and ****ting) under my deck. Maybe sparrows have a higher tolerance,
considering they have 3 nests tucked in between the PT joists.

We used to have robins too, but the damned sparrows chased them off.

Maybe it's time for a cat...

....or some sparrow houses. That'll teach you use ipe.

How was the getaway weekend?

Bob

In article ,
says...

"Rick Chamberlain" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
I toiled for a while at a Wild Birds Unltd store. The manager/owner knew
her
stuff and was vehemently against ANY finish on the wood, even those that
are
"non-toxic" for humans. She felt that not only were the birds
susceptible to
the treated wood itself but also to the outgassing that cannot be
prevented.
Her recommendation was to use untreated, unfinished pine. Yes, it will
decay, but no, the birds won't.

You know Bob, my first inclination was that PT lumber was no good for
birds either. But then I was quickly reminded of the sparrows nesting
(and ****ting) under my deck. Maybe sparrows have a higher tolerance,
considering they have 3 nests tucked in between the PT joists.

We used to have robins too, but the damned sparrows chased them off.

Maybe it's time for a cat...

...or some sparrow houses. That'll teach you use ipe.

How was the getaway weekend?

Heh. Knew there was going to be a downside to that wood.

Never got there... I did get to Minny for a business meeting last week
tho. Got back in time to help my sister put in a patio and raised
veggie bed. Didn't feel too bad after half a bottle of ibuprofen and a
gallon of water.
--
Regards,

Rick

(Remove the HIGH SPOTS for e-mail)

Indyrose wrote:

One of my 4-H wood working kids turned up with treated lumber for
making a bird house. It's the new stuff, AC2-- not CCA -- but I still
don't trust the new stuff.

I'm in the process of telling him why that is a bad idea, and to use
just about anything else instead -- even cheap pine with a good latex
exterior paint for protection.

Although it is touted as being "less toxic," that still doesn't put my
mind at ease. Personally, I wouldn't work with it indoors, use it with
animals (birds) or let kids handle it much. I certainly wouldn't want
to finish sand the stuff.

Am I being too cautious, as the kid's parents seem to think I am?

Indyrose

Reply on the wreck or to my "real" email at indyrose at milmac dot
com.

I think the big problem is that birds are quite sensitive to substances that
a human wouldn't even be aware of. For example, miners used to use
canaries as warning of the presence of toxic gases--the canary would die
long before the buildup was high enough to harm the miners, so they'd know
to get out or ventilate in plenty of time. That being the case, with
anything that birds are going to live in I think it is best to err on the
side of caution.

Googling "birdhouse pressure treated" got one 8 year old extension service
link that said it was OK, the many, many others said not to.

http://birds.cornell.edu/birdhouse/bhbasics/bhbasics_index.html has lots
of good information on birdhouses. Since it's part of a research project
being conducted by the Cornell Ornithology lab which is one of the top
avian research organizations in the world, I think anything they say you
can pretty much take as gospel, and one of the first things they say is
"untreated wood".

I suspect that heart cedar with an asphalt shingle top would last a good
long time.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Do not use treated lumber. There are a lot if toxins that can hurt birds out there.