I recently discovered that an area at the top corner of a swinging
plywood door just below my kitchen sink has delaminated very
significantly. The door is ~ 22" x 16". There's space up to 1/8 inch in
some places and all told probably around 35 square inches of
delamination. Unfortunately, dirt and dust has penetrated into the
cravasses considerably. I don't want to replace the piece, which would
be costly and I don't know where I would look for a replacement in any
case. The edge of the door on 3 sides has a notch of ~3/8" x ~1/2", and
I don't have a router (could probably borrow one, but I've never used
one), so I'm loath to try to make a new door out of new stock.

I want to repair by cleaning in some manner and gluing and clamping,
then refinishing the piece along with its companion door.

What kind of glue should I use? I figure I can clean in there some by
inserting large pieces of sandpaper and pushing and pulling them and
then shooting air into the crevasses. Not perfect, but it will help.

I was thinking of using either a wood glue or contact cement. Yes, I
know that contact cement is unorthodox in something like this, but I
love the stuff. It's very versatile and seems to be very tenacious once
set. I'd use it outdoors to avoid inhaling the toxic solvents. However,
I realize it might be a good time to buy a good all purpose wood glue,
presumably a powder I mix with fluid (probably water). I tested my old
container of Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue yesterday and it turns to
powder when "set" so I'll have to discard it. What are some good all
purpose wood glues of this type these days? Thanks for the help.

Dan


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

"Dan Musicant" wrote in message
...
I recently discovered that an area at the top corner of a swinging
plywood door just below my kitchen sink has delaminated very
significantly. The door is ~ 22" x 16". There's space up to 1/8 inch in
some places and all told probably around 35 square inches of
delamination. Unfortunately, dirt and dust has penetrated into the
cravasses considerably. I don't want to replace the piece, which would
be costly and I don't know where I would look for a replacement in any
case. The edge of the door on 3 sides has a notch of ~3/8" x ~1/2", and
I don't have a router (could probably borrow one, but I've never used
one), so I'm loath to try to make a new door out of new stock.

I want to repair by cleaning in some manner and gluing and clamping,
then refinishing the piece along with its companion door.


After cleaning it out as good as you can I'd use the wood glue... You can
use the compressed air to blow the glue between the laminations. Then clamp
with cauls to ensure the panel is flat and that there is good contact. I did
this recently so I know it will work!

John

On 5/23/2011 5:21 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

"Dan Musicant" wrote in message
...
I recently discovered that an area at the top corner of a swinging
plywood door just below my kitchen sink has delaminated very
significantly. The door is ~ 22" x 16". There's space up to 1/8 inch in
some places and all told probably around 35 square inches of
delamination. Unfortunately, dirt and dust has penetrated into the
cravasses considerably. I don't want to replace the piece, which would
be costly and I don't know where I would look for a replacement in any
case. The edge of the door on 3 sides has a notch of ~3/8" x ~1/2", and
I don't have a router (could probably borrow one, but I've never used
one), so I'm loath to try to make a new door out of new stock.

I want to repair by cleaning in some manner and gluing and clamping,
then refinishing the piece along with its companion door.


After cleaning it out as good as you can I'd use the wood glue... You
can use the compressed air to blow the glue between the laminations.
Then clamp with cauls to ensure the panel is flat and that there is good
contact. I did this recently so I know it will work!

John

I have found that reglueing a failed glued surface can be almost
impossible to fix long term Not sure if the repair eventually fails
again because of (1) glue does not stick well to dried/cured glue, or
(2) the failed glue that is still in there will fail again. My
experience has been that you pretty much have to get back to bare wood
and reglue.

On May 23, 6:33*pm, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
On 5/23/2011 5:21 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:







"Dan Musicant" wrote in message
.. .
I recently discovered that an area at the top corner of a swinging
plywood door just below my kitchen sink has delaminated very
significantly. The door is ~ 22" x 16". There's space up to 1/8 inch in
some places and all told probably around 35 square inches of
delamination. Unfortunately, dirt and dust has penetrated into the
cravasses considerably. I don't want to replace the piece, which would
be costly and I don't know where I would look for a replacement in any
case. The edge of the door on 3 sides has a notch of ~3/8" x ~1/2", and
I don't have a router (could probably borrow one, but I've never used
one), so I'm loath to try to make a new door out of new stock.

I want to repair by cleaning in some manner and gluing and clamping,
then refinishing the piece along with its companion door.

After cleaning it out as good as you can I'd use the wood glue... You
can use the compressed air to blow the glue between the laminations.
Then clamp with cauls to ensure the panel is flat and that there is good
contact. I did this recently so I know it will work!

John

I have found that reglueing a failed glued surface can be almost
impossible to fix long term *Not sure if the repair eventually fails
again because of (1) *glue does not stick well to dried/cured glue, or
(2) the failed glue that is still in there will fail again. *My
experience has been that you pretty much have to get back to bare wood
and reglue.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The exception being hide glue, but that's going to be
impractical here.

On May 23, 11:22*am, Dan Musicant wrote:
I recently discovered that an area at the top corner of a swinging
plywood door just below my kitchen sink has delaminated very
significantly. The door is ~ 22" x 16". There's space up to 1/8 inch in
some places and all told probably around 35 square inches of
delamination. Unfortunately, dirt and dust has penetrated into the
cravasses considerably. I don't want to replace the piece, which would
be costly and I don't know where I would look for a replacement in any
case. The edge of the door on 3 sides has a notch of ~3/8" x ~1/2", and
I don't have a router (could probably borrow one, but I've never used
one), so I'm loath to try to make a new door out of new stock.

Laminate from two thinner sheets of ply, one 3/8" narrower than
the other to create the rabbet.

I want to repair by cleaning in some manner and gluing and clamping,
then refinishing the piece along with its companion door.

What kind of glue should I use? I figure I can clean in there some by
inserting large pieces of sandpaper and pushing and pulling them and
then shooting air into the crevasses. Not perfect, but it will help.

I was thinking of using either a wood glue or contact cement. Yes, I
know that contact cement is unorthodox in something like this, but I
love the stuff. It's very versatile and seems to be very tenacious once
set. I'd use it outdoors to avoid inhaling the toxic solvents. However,
I realize it might be a good time to buy a good all purpose wood glue,
presumably a powder I mix with fluid (probably water). I tested my old
container of Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue yesterday and it turns to
powder when "set" so I'll have to discard it. What are some good all
purpose wood glues of this type these days? Thanks for the help.

Dan

Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

If you still want to repair the old door, Gorilla Glue expands
and will drive itself into any voids. It's also waterproof, ideal
for a a sink cabinet door. Take extra pains to more heavily
seal the top edges of the doors to prevent future water
penetration. Shaping the edges leaves less of a ledge to
catch and hold drips.

.. What are some good all
purpose wood glues of this type these days? Thanks for the help.

Dan

Dan,

I would strongly suggest epoxy. Something like this
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200...16-ounces.aspx

or any System 3 product.

It is very tolerant of crappy surfaces, moisture, dust, etc. and will
glue almost anything to anything.
- It does NOT need compression or pressure like normal wood glue.
Wood glue will not make a good bond unless under pressure.
- It does not need moisture like poly glue (Gorilla glue). Just an
FYI that Gorilla glue is a great marketing campaign but is ALWAYS the
least effective glue in any test I have ever seen it included in.
- It won't expand like ploy glue and foam all over.
- It is totally waterproof.
- It is very sandable when cured.

Epoxy is my go-to glue for all wood repairs. I've used it in numerous
cases and always had good outcomes.

"Dan Musicant" wrote in message
...
I recently discovered that an area at the top corner of a swinging
plywood door just below my kitchen sink has delaminated very
significantly. The door is ~ 22" x 16". There's space up to 1/8 inch in
some places and all told probably around 35 square inches of
delamination. Unfortunately, dirt and dust has penetrated into the
cravasses considerably. I don't want to replace the piece, which would
be costly and I don't know where I would look for a replacement in any
case. The edge of the door on 3 sides has a notch of ~3/8" x ~1/2", and
I don't have a router (could probably borrow one, but I've never used
one), so I'm loath to try to make a new door out of new stock.

I want to repair by cleaning in some manner and gluing and clamping,
then refinishing the piece along with its companion door.

What kind of glue should I use? I figure I can clean in there some by
inserting large pieces of sandpaper and pushing and pulling them and
then shooting air into the crevasses. Not perfect, but it will help.

I was thinking of using either a wood glue or contact cement. Yes, I
know that contact cement is unorthodox in something like this, but I
love the stuff. It's very versatile and seems to be very tenacious once
set. I'd use it outdoors to avoid inhaling the toxic solvents. However,
I realize it might be a good time to buy a good all purpose wood glue,
presumably a powder I mix with fluid (probably water). I tested my old
container of Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue yesterday and it turns to
powder when "set" so I'll have to discard it. What are some good all
purpose wood glues of this type these days? Thanks for the help.

Dan


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

D:

If you need to try to fix it, I add my vote to SP's
for epoxy, particularly in light of the occasional 1/8" gap.
And I'd listen to Leon: no wood glue.

Wet the gap with a solvent like Naptha to loosen
up any accreted gunk. Get right after it with whatever
thin, raspy and long tools or abrasive paper you have to
clean the sprung surface.

Throughout a process of any duration
you will want to wet again with a solvent like Naptha--
or one otherwise suggested in answers--as long as you
determine that is making any interference debris release
as you mechanically attack it. My guess is grease
and grit are not unknown in kitchens.

Obviously, your target is not to take out much healthy
wood in the process. If you have one of those
dangerous air-line vaccums or can tape a small
plastic tube to a shop vac, make that a closing
cleaning step. As an alternative, you could try
blowing it out, checking you didn't leave any
stuff binding.

I've done structural failure tests on quick and slow
epoxies on rock. Slow performs better period and
much better in wet environments. Part of the
reason is time. The mers have much more of it
to become thoroughly poly-merized.

The idea of blowing the adhesive in is new to me.
And it's worth consideration. The only potential
hitch I'd anticipate is dislodging a nice chunk of
wood crosswise in a tight, delaminated area.

Use clamps on pieces of wood/plywood or clamps to
sequentially pressure the placed adhesive from the inmost
area outward to prevent trapping excess glue.
I dont' imagine this door is real thick, so don't
do anything to distort it from flat.

Clean up any excess and wait the duration prescribed
by your manufacturer.

Good luck.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

On Mon, 23 May 2011 16:17:51 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

:. What are some good all
: purpose wood glues of this type these days? Thanks for the help.
:
: Dan
:
an,
:
:I would strongly suggest epoxy. Something like this
:http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200...16-ounces.aspx
:
r any System 3 product.
:
:It is very tolerant of crappy surfaces, moisture, dust, etc. and will
:glue almost anything to anything.
: - It does NOT need compression or pressure like normal wood glue.
:Wood glue will not make a good bond unless under pressure.
: - It does not need moisture like poly glue (Gorilla glue). Just an
:FYI that Gorilla glue is a great marketing campaign but is ALWAYS the
:least effective glue in any test I have ever seen it included in.
: - It won't expand like ploy glue and foam all over.
: - It is totally waterproof.
: - It is very sandable when cured.
:
:Epoxy is my go-to glue for all wood repairs. I've used it in numerous
:cases and always had good outcomes.

Thanks. I actually have a lot of experience with epoxies. I've used them
for decades and always have it on hand. I have some 5 minute, one hour
and longer setting resins. Maybe I should buy some rather than using
what I have, such as the System 3 you suggest.

Dan


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

On Mon, 23 May 2011 16:17:51 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

:. What are some good all
: purpose wood glues of this type these days? Thanks for the help.
:
: Dan
:
an,
:
:I would strongly suggest epoxy. Something like this
:http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200...16-ounces.aspx
:
r any System 3 product.
:
:It is very tolerant of crappy surfaces, moisture, dust, etc. and will
:glue almost anything to anything.
: - It does NOT need compression or pressure like normal wood glue.
:Wood glue will not make a good bond unless under pressure.
: - It does not need moisture like poly glue (Gorilla glue). Just an
:FYI that Gorilla glue is a great marketing campaign but is ALWAYS the
:least effective glue in any test I have ever seen it included in.
: - It won't expand like ploy glue and foam all over.
: - It is totally waterproof.
: - It is very sandable when cured.
:
:Epoxy is my go-to glue for all wood repairs. I've used it in numerous
:cases and always had good outcomes.

I like the idea of not needing pressure. The instructions with my
old (!) container of Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue said minimal 50psi. I
don't know just how much pressure that would mean turning the screws on
my hand clamps, but it sounds scary. My test of the old glue completely
failed. The powder mixed with water, lathered between two pieces of
cleaned lath and clamped (moderately hand tight) and left in the sun for
6+ hours turned back to complete powder! Ack! It was as if I applied
powder without adding water.

I'm truly torn between my original idea of contact cement and epoxy, but
will probably go with the epoxy. This is the kind of thing you probably
get only one chance on. Well, maybe more than one but I'd like to do
something that works and holds up on the first try.

The link above is to 5 minute System Three, but I like the idea of
longer setting and I found this one:

http://www.amazon.com/System-Three-T...8I/ref=lh_ni_t

Dan


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

On Mon, 23 May 2011 20:21:16 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote:

:Wet the gap with a solvent like Naptha to loosen
:up any accreted gunk. Get right after it with whatever
:thin, raspy and long tools or abrasive paper you have to
:clean the sprung surface.

The naptha (I have a gallon can, most of which I still have), will
evaporate? Or will it absorb into the wood and eventually evaporate?
Seems to me I don't want to apply epoxy to wood that is somewhat
saturated with napthta. In my experience it is volatile but slow
evaporating.

Dan


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

"Dan Musicant" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 23 May 2011 20:21:16 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote:

:Wet the gap with a solvent like Naptha to loosen
:up any accreted gunk. Get right after it with whatever
:thin, raspy and long tools or abrasive paper you have to
:clean the sprung surface.

The naptha (I have a gallon can, most of which I still have), will
evaporate? Or will it absorb into the wood and eventually evaporate?
Seems to me I don't want to apply epoxy to wood that is somewhat
saturated with napthta. In my experience it is volatile but slow
evaporating.

Dan


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

D:

You are going to take the door off the hinges
and do this, right?

Naptha has an odor. Women generally have
a better sense of that then men. When you
are finished with your solvent phase, let
you door sit in the sun for an hour outdoors.
Have someone with a good nose smell it.
When the odor is gone, the infiltration is
gone, without a residue of anything that
will disturb ensuing steps.

However, you will find repairing this in
the detailed, finicky and correct way
specified a real misinvestment of resources
compared to a new door. If you are indisposed
to fabricate one yourself with a tablesaw or
with a router and tablesaw, the cost of having
a skilled party do this would be efficient unless
you will treasure the restoration experience.

Call glass shops and ask who does their
custom doors. Buy the wood. Call cabinet makers.
Put an ad on Craig's List. If your edge step
has an uncommon profile, perhaps a particular
router bit will be needed. That will be about
as complicated as this simple problem can
get. The choices are yours but most people
here would wisely start over. Trust me, after
you've gone the hindsight route, you, regretfully
would too.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

The link above is to 5 minute System Three, but I like the idea of
longer setting and I found this one:

http://www.amazon.com/System-Three-T...00M64R8I/ref=l...

Dan

Yup, that's actually what I use but I searched on t-11 for some reason
and couldn't find it so offered the other. I was thinking of external
ply(t1-11) I guess.

On Tue, 24 May 2011 08:08:02 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote:

:
:"Dan Musicant" wrote in message
:news : On Mon, 23 May 2011 20:21:16 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
: wrote:
:
: :Wet the gap with a solvent like Naptha to loosen
: :up any accreted gunk. Get right after it with whatever
: :thin, raspy and long tools or abrasive paper you have to
: :clean the sprung surface.
:
: The naptha (I have a gallon can, most of which I still have), will
: evaporate? Or will it absorb into the wood and eventually evaporate?
: Seems to me I don't want to apply epoxy to wood that is somewhat
: saturated with napthta. In my experience it is volatile but slow
: evaporating.
:
: Dan
:
:
: Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
:
:
:
:You are going to take the door off the hinges
:and do this, right?

Yes, I already removed the hinges, latch and magnetic plate, i.e. all
the hardware.

:
:Naptha has an odor. Women generally have
:a better sense of that then men. When you
:are finished with your solvent phase, let
:you door sit in the sun for an hour outdoors.
:Have someone with a good nose smell it.
:When the odor is gone, the infiltration is
:gone, without a residue of anything that
:will disturb ensuing steps.

I have what I think is a very keen nose... and no women around
I think I'll be able to tell when the naptha has _totally_ evaporated.
:
:However, you will find repairing this in
:the detailed, finicky and correct way
:specified a real misinvestment of resources
:compared to a new door. If you are indisposed
:to fabricate one yourself with a tablesaw or
:with a router and tablesaw, the cost of having
:a skilled party do this would be efficient unless
:you will treasure the restoration experience.

I'm very dedicated to DIY, but I'm not nuts. However, I'd like to try a
repair.
:
:Call glass shops and ask who does their
:custom doors. Buy the wood. Call cabinet makers.
:Put an ad on Craig's List. If your edge step
:has an uncommon profile, perhaps a particular
:router bit will be needed. That will be about
:as complicated as this simple problem can
:get. The choices are yours but most people
:here would wisely start over. Trust me, after
:you've gone the hindsight route, you, regretfully
:would too.
:
:Regards,
:
:Edward Hennessey

If I decide on a new door I'll try to make it myself. I think I'm up to
it, although I've never used a router. There's a tool lending library
(free) a 2 block bike ride from my house and I can borrow a router
there. They are also very nice friendly guys generally speaking and I
can bring the door to them and get opinions on both how to repair (if
feasible) or how to make a new one. I might do that before trying the
repair just to get another set of opinions, WTH. What I'm not inclined
to do is enlist the help of a professional for something on this order.
I have zero disposable income and am constantly brainstorming how I can
live more frugally. It's something I like, actually. Well, it forces me
to be creative a whole lot.

The table saw I do have is home made from a bunch of scrap wood, a few
hardware odds and ends, and a used clothes drier motor I bought for $5.
It also functions as a grinder, it's more typical function, however I
have used it as a table saw many times (with a 7 1/4 inch circle saw
blade). I made an adjustable fence for it.

Dan



Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

"Dan Musicant" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 24 May 2011 08:08:02 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote:

:
:"Dan Musicant" wrote in message
:news : On Mon, 23 May 2011 20:21:16 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
: wrote:
:
: :Wet the gap with a solvent like Naptha to loosen
: :up any accreted gunk. Get right after it with whatever
: :thin, raspy and long tools or abrasive paper you have to
: :clean the sprung surface.
:
: The naptha (I have a gallon can, most of which I still have), will
: evaporate? Or will it absorb into the wood and eventually evaporate?
: Seems to me I don't want to apply epoxy to wood that is somewhat
: saturated with napthta. In my experience it is volatile but slow
: evaporating.
:
: Dan
:
:
: Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
:
:
:
:You are going to take the door off the hinges
:and do this, right?

Yes, I already removed the hinges, latch and magnetic plate, i.e. all
the hardware.

:
:Naptha has an odor. Women generally have
:a better sense of that then men. When you
:are finished with your solvent phase, let
:you door sit in the sun for an hour outdoors.
:Have someone with a good nose smell it.
:When the odor is gone, the infiltration is
:gone, without a residue of anything that
:will disturb ensuing steps.

D:

I have what I think is a very keen nose... and no women around
I think I'll be able to tell when the naptha has _totally_ evaporated.

Funny, when I bring women flowers, I can never
smell them and then they tell me to evaporate.
Next time, I'll wear Eau de Naptha. That
French touch....
:
:However, you will find repairing this in
:the detailed, finicky and correct way
:specified a real misinvestment of resources
:compared to a new door. If you are indisposed
:to fabricate one yourself with a tablesaw or
:with a router and tablesaw, the cost of having
:a skilled party do this would be efficient unless
:you will treasure the restoration experience.

I'm very dedicated to DIY, but I'm not nuts. However, I'd like to try a
repair.
:
:Call glass shops and ask who does their
:custom doors. Buy the wood. Call cabinet makers.
:Put an ad on Craig's List. If your edge step
:has an uncommon profile, perhaps a particular
:router bit will be needed. That will be about
:as complicated as this simple problem can
:get. The choices are yours but most people
:here would wisely start over. Trust me, after
:you've gone the hindsight route, you, regretfully
:would too.
:
:Regards,
:
:Edward Hennessey

If I decide on a new door I'll try to make it myself. I think I'm up to
it, although I've never used a router. There's a tool lending library
(free) a 2 block bike ride from my house and I can borrow a router
there. They are also very nice friendly guys generally speaking and I
can bring the door to them and get opinions on both how to repair (if
feasible) or how to make a new one. I might do that before trying the
repair just to get another set of opinions, WTH. What I'm not inclined
to do is enlist the help of a professional for something on this order.
I have zero disposable income and am constantly brainstorming how I can
live more frugally. It's something I like, actually. Well, it forces me
to be creative a whole lot.

A simple flat step could be done on the tablesaw in multiple
passes (or with a dado blade) and finished with sandpaper or sharp chisels.
A TS/moulding head would be another possibility. Then there's your
router. Ask the guys at your tool library how to sequence operations
and take steps to avoid finished tearout.

The table saw I do have is home made from a bunch of scrap wood, a few
hardware odds and ends, and a used clothes drier motor I bought for $5.
It also functions as a grinder, it's more typical function, however I
have used it as a table saw many times (with a 7 1/4 inch circle saw
blade). I made an adjustable fence for it.


If you check the outbins behind cabinet shops, kitchen remodelers
and the like, you just might luck into a free piece of wood
fit for your purpose if this isn't a burning issue.

Best of results and regards,

Edward Hennessey