I put up a post on this problem back in early November but I am still stuck
so I thought I would try again.

10 years ago I made a dresser out of red oak, applied golden oak stain, and
finished with poly to match some existing furniture. That furniture has been
replaced with some purchased cherry furniture with a rather dark stain on
it. Now my second oak dresser sticks out like a sore thumb.

I made up a sample board finished the same way as the dresser. I cleaned it
with TSP, roughed up the poly with 180 grit paper, and applied two different
kinds of gel stain to the sample. The gel stains made very minor changes to
the color. I will of course apply more coats of the gel stain to see if I
can get closer but I want to make up a second board to try a different path
(dye) in parallel as I don't have infinite time to get this job done. On my
second sample, if I rough up the poly, and put on a coat of shellac, can I
go for a stain that will match the new cherry furniture right off or do I
need to be conscious of the light buttery brown underneath and try to figure
out a stain that will combine (a la a color wheel) with the buttery brown to
give me the dark cherry finish I am trying to "match". I put match in quotes
as I will never match it exactly and of course the oak grain will be very
obviously different than the cherry but the second dresser is not right next
to the other furniture so a kinda sorta match would be great.

Your advice on this second posting of my problem would be greatly
appreciated as always.

TIA.

Dick Snyder

Your advice on this second posting of my problem would be greatly
appreciated as always.

TIA.

Dick Snyder

The basic problem here is that stain or dye over a film finish is not
really going to work very well. The best hope for that was gel stain
and even then you should sort of leave a thick film behind and let the
poly in the gel harden to hold the color in place.

I would suggest using Minwax Polyshades. This is poly with dye in it.
The basic technique to match an existing tone is to get something of
the right shade and apply multiple thin coats until it gets dark
enough to match.

Also, you could do your own toning using poly or shellac or lacquer
and adding your own dye, transtint liquid works fine like this. But I
would assume some polyshade color should be close. Just pick a color
that seems like it would be close if you added a bit of orange\buttery
brown, to account for the underlying existing tone.

But practice, practice, practice with the Poly-shades. Like most things Norm
did, it is not as simple as it looks. Play with it and see what works for
you for putting on an even coat.

Deb

SonomaProducts.com wrote:

Your advice on this second posting of my problem would be greatly
appreciated as always.

TIA.

Dick Snyder

The basic problem here is that stain or dye over a film finish is not
really going to work very well. The best hope for that was gel stain
and even then you should sort of leave a thick film behind and let the
poly in the gel harden to hold the color in place.

I would suggest using Minwax Polyshades. This is poly with dye in it.
The basic technique to match an existing tone is to get something of
the right shade and apply multiple thin coats until it gets dark
enough to match.

Also, you could do your own toning using poly or shellac or lacquer
and adding your own dye, transtint liquid works fine like this. But I
would assume some polyshade color should be close. Just pick a color
that seems like it would be close if you added a bit of orange\buttery
brown, to account for the underlying existing tone.

On Jan 5, 4:32*pm, "Dr. Deb" wrote:
But practice, practice, practice with the Poly-shades. Like most things Norm
did, it is not as simple as it looks. *Play with it and see what works for
you for putting on an even coat.

Deb

Amen sister. Polyshades is very unforgiving of overlap for instance.
Even with a wet edge if you overlap much that section gets darker.

Why take a chance on learning new techniques, new methodology, etc.?

Stripping isn't all that hard. Strip it, sand it, and you will be
back on familiar ground with raw wood just like you started with.
Experiment until you get your color, then seal it up.

I have tried just about every type of color matching for stained
finishes possible over the years and nothing has ever worked as well
as stripping. With care on your surface prep you are starting with a
clean slate. Tough to be that!

Robert

On Wed, 5 Jan 2011 19:17:50 -0800 (PST), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

On Jan 5, 4:32*pm, "Dr. Deb" wrote:
But practice, practice, practice with the Poly-shades. Like most things Norm
did, it is not as simple as it looks. *Play with it and see what works for
you for putting on an even coat.

Deb

Amen sister. Polyshades is very unforgiving of overlap for instance.
Even with a wet edge if you overlap much that section gets darker.

Even if you use a $23 Purdy synthetic brush. I'd never willingly brush
polyshades again, especially the dark walnut. BTDT, hated the ****.
I never should have asked the client what they wanted to use for
finish. "Oh, I have some polyshades in the shed. We'll use that."

--
Some people are like Slinkies ... not really good for
anything, but you can't help smiling when you see one
tumble down the stairs.

On 1/6/2011 12:13 AM, wrote:
Why take a chance on learning new techniques, new methodology, etc.?

Stripping isn't all that hard. Strip it, sand it, and you will be
back on familiar ground with raw wood just like you started with.
Experiment until you get your color, then seal it up.

I have tried just about every type of color matching for stained
finishes possible over the years and nothing has ever worked as well
as stripping. With care on your surface prep you are starting with a
clean slate. Tough to be that!

Robert

Far better advice than trying to use that Polyshades crap. Chances are good
that after trying to "fix it up" with Polyshades you'd be breaking out the
stripper anyway...

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

wrote in message
...
Why take a chance on learning new techniques, new methodology, etc.?

Stripping isn't all that hard. Strip it, sand it, and you will be
back on familiar ground with raw wood just like you started with.
Experiment until you get your color, then seal it up.

I have tried just about every type of color matching for stained
finishes possible over the years and nothing has ever worked as well
as stripping. With care on your surface prep you are starting with a
clean slate. Tough to be that!

Robert

You are probably right. What do you like to use for stripping?

On Jan 6, 10:16 am, "Dick Snyder" wrote:

What do you like to use for stripping?

If I go to the paint store to buy stripper, I look for BIX products.
Their "Original" formula will work great on one or two coats of finish
and is pretty safe around veneers.

If the subject has more than one coat, or thick coats of finish, I use
the BIX "Tuff Job" or something like that. It has "Tough" or "Tuff"
on the can. The Tuff grade has a nice feature and that is that I find
it to be more of a gel, so it stays on vertical surfaces a little
easier. In this colder weather, that shouldn't be an issue, though.

I have never had any luck with the soy or organic strippers, nor do I
know anyone that has. I tried it, it didn't work, I won't waste my
time on that again.

Like finishing (in my opinion) people make too much out of stripping.
Search around here on this forum and there is good info on the
processes and procedures including observation of mandatory safety
issues to respect.

A couple of highlights. If you are going to strip in this colder
weather, make sure you allow plenty of time for the stripper to do its
work. They are tested in a laboratory where the temps are a
controlled 70 something. If your shop/garage is 50 - 60 something,
allow a lot more time.

Apply the stripper in even coats, don't just slather it on. The
thicker the stripper, the more bite it will have, and you will get
streaking and highlights (and dark streaks and lowlights). When you
take the time to put the stripper on in even, thick coats it will pay
off in a big way.

Allowing more time due to temp (really high or really low) will make
it easy for the stripper to dry up. No problem. Buy those drop
cloths that are the same thickness of a dry cleaning bag and cover the
piece immediately after coating with stripper. Lay the plastic right
on top of your goo, and buy a couple of packages of those drop cloths
in case you have to strip twice. Cover it in a way that allows you to
pick up a corner and check to see how well it is working.

Don't be afraid to strip twice. This is something that is often
overlooked, but it gives you a great shot to getting ALL the old
finish and stains off. After you have stripped off the finish, wash
it off the surfaces with some cheap lacquer thinner. Sand until you
find your surface smooth and clean, then wipe down one more time with
the lacquer thinner.

You should be in familiar territory after that.

Let us know how it worked out!

Robert

Far better advice than trying to use that Polyshades crap. *

Not sure why people have such hate towards polyshades and minwax in
general. It isn't ever my first choice but if you are trying to save
the hassle of totally stripping a piece and you have any talent at
finishing at all you can get great results. I suspect they are usually
blaming their incompetance on the product.

Even if you use a $23 Purdy synthetic brush. I'd never willingly brush
polyshades again, especially the dark walnut. BTDT, hated the ****.
I never should have asked the client what they wanted to use for
finish. *"Oh, I have some polyshades in the shed. We'll use that."


First rule of finishing is to test the complete process on samples of
the same material or hidden spot before ever doing an actual project.

On 1/6/2011 12:57 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

Far better advice than trying to use that Polyshades crap.

Not sure why people have such hate towards polyshades and minwax in
general. It isn't ever my first choice but if you are trying to save
the hassle of totally stripping a piece and you have any talent at
finishing at all you can get great results. I suspect they are usually
blaming their incompetance on the product.

Are you calling me incompetent? I may not be as accomplished as Robert, but
I've been doing hobbyist finishing on cars and boats and furniture and pretty
much everything else for over 30 years, so I ain't no newbie. I can get
acceptable results from Polyshades if I'm forced to, but I certainly have
enough experience to know that I wouldn't recommend it in the general sense,
particularly to beginners, and particularly when there are so many other
products and methods that yield better results with far less hassle and margin
for error. 95% of the discussions I've seen from others regarding Polyshades
backs my own experience, and many of those people have far more experience than
I do. You must be very experienced indeed if you assume that the average Joe
can use that stuff without wishing they hadn't...

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Some people have trouble with a lot of things...

walking
posting humanely
acting intelligent

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
...

Far better advice than trying to use that Polyshades crap.

Not sure why people have such hate towards polyshades and minwax in
general. It isn't ever my first choice but if you are trying to save
the hassle of totally stripping a piece and you have any talent at
finishing at all you can get great results. I suspect they are usually
blaming their incompetance on the product.

In ,
Steve Turner spewed forth:
On 1/6/2011 12:57 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

Far better advice than trying to use that Polyshades crap.

Not sure why people have such hate towards polyshades and minwax in
general. It isn't ever my first choice but if you are trying to save
the hassle of totally stripping a piece and you have any talent at
finishing at all you can get great results. I suspect they are
usually blaming their incompetance on the product.

Are you calling me incompetent? I may not be as accomplished as
Robert, but I've been doing hobbyist finishing on cars and boats and
furniture and pretty much everything else for over 30 years, so I
ain't no newbie. I can get acceptable results from Polyshades if I'm
forced to, but I certainly have enough experience to know that I
wouldn't recommend it in the general sense, particularly to
beginners, and particularly when there are so many other products and
methods that yield better results with far less hassle and margin for
error. 95% of the discussions I've seen from others regarding
Polyshades backs my own experience, and many of those people have far
more experience than I do. You must be very experienced indeed if
you assume that the average Joe can use that stuff without wishing
they hadn't...

Not to mention that in 35 years I've NEVER known a Professional finisher to
buy anything minwax, let alone at HD

wrote in message
...
On Jan 6, 10:16 am, "Dick Snyder" wrote:

What do you like to use for stripping?

If I go to the paint store to buy stripper, I look for BIX products.
Their "Original" formula will work great on one or two coats of finish
and is pretty safe around veneers.

If the subject has more than one coat, or thick coats of finish, I use
the BIX "Tuff Job" or something like that. It has "Tough" or "Tuff"
on the can. The Tuff grade has a nice feature and that is that I find
it to be more of a gel, so it stays on vertical surfaces a little
easier. In this colder weather, that shouldn't be an issue, though.

I have never had any luck with the soy or organic strippers, nor do I
know anyone that has. I tried it, it didn't work, I won't waste my
time on that again.

Like finishing (in my opinion) people make too much out of stripping.
Search around here on this forum and there is good info on the
processes and procedures including observation of mandatory safety
issues to respect.

A couple of highlights. If you are going to strip in this colder
weather, make sure you allow plenty of time for the stripper to do its
work. They are tested in a laboratory where the temps are a
controlled 70 something. If your shop/garage is 50 - 60 something,
allow a lot more time.

Apply the stripper in even coats, don't just slather it on. The
thicker the stripper, the more bite it will have, and you will get
streaking and highlights (and dark streaks and lowlights). When you
take the time to put the stripper on in even, thick coats it will pay
off in a big way.

Allowing more time due to temp (really high or really low) will make
it easy for the stripper to dry up. No problem. Buy those drop
cloths that are the same thickness of a dry cleaning bag and cover the
piece immediately after coating with stripper. Lay the plastic right
on top of your goo, and buy a couple of packages of those drop cloths
in case you have to strip twice. Cover it in a way that allows you to
pick up a corner and check to see how well it is working.

Don't be afraid to strip twice. This is something that is often
overlooked, but it gives you a great shot to getting ALL the old
finish and stains off. After you have stripped off the finish, wash
it off the surfaces with some cheap lacquer thinner. Sand until you
find your surface smooth and clean, then wipe down one more time with
the lacquer thinner.

You should be in familiar territory after that.

Let us know how it worked out!

Robert

Thanks for the detailed reply Robert. I will give it a shot.
BTW, one of my friends uses Citrustrip Remover. Is that what you refer to as
an organic stripper?

In any case, I will try the BIX products as you have obviously had good
success with it.

Dick

Not to mention that in 35 years I've NEVER known a Professional finisher to
buy anything minwax, let alone at HD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

1. Well professional finishers do toning all the time with dye in
poly, ie the exact same thing as polyshades.
2. I've been paid to do finishing. I use Minwax products when they
make sense. I by at Home Depot.
3. This is 'rec.' woodworking, as in recreational. So my advise was to
a hobbiest not a professional. Also, given the facts that he had a
finished piece and was trying to change it's color with stain as
opposed to stripping\sanding it and I gave him a totally viable
approach.

Are you calling me incompetent?
--
See Nad. *See Nad go. *Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

I don't know you or your skill so I really don't know if you are
competent or not. I was generalizing that anyone complaining so
bitterly about hating a product line, that I have found to work fine,
is maybe incompetent and just taking it out on the product. That would
of course esentially qualify as me calling you incompetent, which is
rude on my part and I aploogize.

Regarding the early statement about stripping being a far superior
approach, in terms of outcome that is likely true but in terms of how
much work to get to a reasonable result, polyshades would be a faster
way to get there, given the original question.

On Jan 5, 5:59*pm, "Dick Snyder" wrote:
I put up a post on this problem back in early November but I am still stuck
so I thought I would try again.

10 years ago I made a dresser out of red oak, applied golden oak stain, and
finished with poly to match some existing furniture. That furniture has been
replaced with some purchased cherry furniture with a rather dark stain on
it. Now my second oak dresser sticks out like a sore thumb.

I made up a sample board finished the same way as the dresser. I cleaned it
with TSP, roughed up the poly with 180 grit paper, and applied two different
kinds of gel stain to the sample. The gel stains made very minor changes to
the color. I will of course apply more coats of the gel stain to see if I
can get closer but I want to make up a second board to try a different path
(dye) in parallel as I don't have infinite time to get this job done. On my
second sample, if I rough up the poly, and put on a coat of shellac, can I
go for a stain that will match the new cherry furniture right off or do I
need to be conscious of the light buttery brown underneath and try to figure
out a stain that will combine (a la a color wheel) with the buttery brown to
give me the dark cherry finish I am trying to "match". I put match in quotes
as I will never match it exactly and of course the oak grain will be very
obviously different than the cherry but the second dresser is not right next
to the other furniture so a kinda sorta match would be great.

Your advice on this second posting of my problem would be greatly
appreciated as always.

TIA.

Dick Snyder

As a rule when manufacturers finish their products, they use tinted
clearcoats so they accelerate the age process. I took the time to look
up the polyshades color chart and I'm willing to bet that your color
is not the "natural cherry" . It's probably the Bombay Mahogany. look
this over:


http://www.minwax.com/products/one_s...es.html#Colors


I hope the link works. despite all the naysayers of polyshades I'm
willing to bet you can pull this off without stripping. Polyshades
does suck if applied wrong. BTDT and I've ~also~ had good results
putting on one good coat over a sealed product. Try it on your test
piece and you might be pleasantly surprised. Whatta you got to lose?
$15 for a quart-o-stain. BFD. If it doesn't suit your taste strip it
and start brand new. Good Luck.

RP

Subject

Picture a band in the pit playing a bump and grind routine while on
stage a young lady complies with the lyric, "take it off, take it all
off."

Lew

On Jan 6, 5:07 pm, "Dick Snyder" wrote:

Thanks for the detailed reply Robert. I will give it a shot.
BTW, one of my friends uses Citrustrip Remover. Is that what you refer to as
an organic stripper?

In any case, I will try the BIX products as you have obviously had good
success with it.

The Citrus products are just more of the organic products. They seem
to work a bit on some products, not at all on others. The old
standard of BIX products have been around for a few decades, and it
has all the nasty stuff in it you need to dissolve something like
poly.

A few more thoughts to make you project easier. Go to a discount
store ( I buy mine at Big Lots ) and get a stiff grout brush and a tub
brush. If they have those cheap plastic putty knives there, buy a 3"
and a 1 1/2" as well.

After you decide that the stripper has done all it can, cast a bit of
sawdust (not sanding dust) onto the surface to use as an abrasive
medium. Scrub the finish off with the tub brush, and the sawdust will
help control the gooey stuff. To remove the goo/sawdust left on the
surface after a good scrub, scoop it off with your throw away putty
knife.

For the inside corners or tough to reach spots, dip the grout brush in
a bit of stripper and have at them. The smaller brush with the
stiffer bristles will be a life saver in corners, copes, moldings,
profiles, etc. For the finest work, those 2 for 99 cents tooth
brushes at the discount stores work great. Use 'em, toss 'em.

Using heavy duty scrub brushes, I never have to use any metal
scrapers, metal putty knives, or anything else that could potentially
damage the damp surface.

Work in sections (plan that out) so that you can keep the wood covered
with your plastic until you get to it. If you only your original
finish to take off, you will be surprised how well it will go.

Make sure you wash it off with the lacquer thinner after stripping and
after sanding. After the first wash, if you find that there are still
remnants of finish or discolorations on the wood, apply stripper to
the whole panel or side, not just the area with remaining finish.
TRUST ME ON THAT. If you strip only a small section, that in turn
will be a different color than the rest of the adjoining area when it
dries.

Since you are only taking off one finish, I think that will careful
application of the stripper that won't be an issue.

Before applying your color, wait a day and let all the thinner
evaporate. The large open area will dry quickly, but little joints
and corners won't. Apply your color as you wish, preferably over a
very light sealer, and wait a day to make sure it all took well and
the appearance is uniform.

Apply sealer as you usually do.

Once you get all the stripper off the piece and you are looking at
clean wood, you will be wondering what all the fuss is about over
stripping.

Once again, good luck and don't forget to post a follow up!

Robert

On Jan 6, 1:16*pm, Steve Turner
wrote:

I've been doing hobbyist finishing on cars and boats and furniture and pretty
much everything else for over 30 years, so I ain't no newbie. *I can get
acceptable results from Polyshades if I'm forced to, but I certainly have
enough experience to know that I wouldn't recommend it in the general sense,
particularly to beginners, and particularly when there are so many other
products and methods that yield better results with far less hassle and margin
for error. *95% of the discussions I've seen from others regarding Polyshades
backs my own experience, and many of those people have far more experience than
I do. *You must be very experienced indeed if you assume that the average Joe
can use that stuff without wishing they hadn't...

I was gonna snip that a bit, but then I realized I agreed with all of
it.

Two things of an important note to add, though:

1) A professional rarely brushes clear seal finishes. I don't, and
certainly don't know of another professional that brushes toned
finishes. Unless Dick is going to spray, Minwax PS wouldn't be a good
choice. I was careful in reading the tone of his post, and remember
his post on this from before. If I am reading this right, he isn't
ready to learn a brand new way of finishing by learning on a couple of
new pieces before tackling his house furniture.

I have the strongest suspicion that Dick wants to get this over and
done with as quickly as possible. Nothing wrong with that! So by
getting him back to familiar ground he can take it from there based on
his own experience.

2) No one I know that has any background in refinishing would ever put
a new finish over polyurethane. The toughest of the plastic resins,
polyurethane is made specifically to resist adhesion, penetration and
abrasion by foreign materials. That's why it make a great table top
or hard use finish. That is also why it is important to get off
before attempting something like a color match. It it made to resist
all manner of wear, and simply scuffing about with a piece of sand
paper only marginally (if at all) increase adhesion.

Unless you understand that you are simply going to "lay" color on it,
then seal it up by "laying" another coat of something on top of the
urethane resin film, you are going the wrong way. To be exact, it is
like painting plastic.

And remember Steve, one man's ceiling is another man's floor. I see
that all the time in finishing work.

Kinda risky to make comments about another's work sight unseen,
though.

Robert

wrote in message
...
On Jan 6, 5:07 pm, "Dick Snyder" wrote:

Thanks for the detailed reply Robert. I will give it a shot.
BTW, one of my friends uses Citrustrip Remover. Is that what you refer to
as
an organic stripper?

In any case, I will try the BIX products as you have obviously had good
success with it.

The Citrus products are just more of the organic products. They seem
to work a bit on some products, not at all on others. The old
standard of BIX products have been around for a few decades, and it
has all the nasty stuff in it you need to dissolve something like
poly.

A few more thoughts to make you project easier. Go to a discount
store ( I buy mine at Big Lots ) and get a stiff grout brush and a tub
brush. If they have those cheap plastic putty knives there, buy a 3"
and a 1 1/2" as well.

After you decide that the stripper has done all it can, cast a bit of
sawdust (not sanding dust) onto the surface to use as an abrasive
medium. Scrub the finish off with the tub brush, and the sawdust will
help control the gooey stuff. To remove the goo/sawdust left on the
surface after a good scrub, scoop it off with your throw away putty
knife.

For the inside corners or tough to reach spots, dip the grout brush in
a bit of stripper and have at them. The smaller brush with the
stiffer bristles will be a life saver in corners, copes, moldings,
profiles, etc. For the finest work, those 2 for 99 cents tooth
brushes at the discount stores work great. Use 'em, toss 'em.

Using heavy duty scrub brushes, I never have to use any metal
scrapers, metal putty knives, or anything else that could potentially
damage the damp surface.

Work in sections (plan that out) so that you can keep the wood covered
with your plastic until you get to it. If you only your original
finish to take off, you will be surprised how well it will go.

Make sure you wash it off with the lacquer thinner after stripping and
after sanding. After the first wash, if you find that there are still
remnants of finish or discolorations on the wood, apply stripper to
the whole panel or side, not just the area with remaining finish.
TRUST ME ON THAT. If you strip only a small section, that in turn
will be a different color than the rest of the adjoining area when it
dries.

Since you are only taking off one finish, I think that will careful
application of the stripper that won't be an issue.

Before applying your color, wait a day and let all the thinner
evaporate. The large open area will dry quickly, but little joints
and corners won't. Apply your color as you wish, preferably over a
very light sealer, and wait a day to make sure it all took well and
the appearance is uniform.

Apply sealer as you usually do.

Once you get all the stripper off the piece and you are looking at
clean wood, you will be wondering what all the fuss is about over
stripping.

Once again, good luck and don't forget to post a follow up!

Robert


Thanks again for another detailed posting Robert. I have to admit I was
leaning towards trying PS as an easy way out but you have sold me with this
post and another post of yours to get this back to the red oak I started
with. You are correct. I don't want to learn a new way of finishing. I am in
the midst of making a teak entertainment center which is a lot more fun than
refinishing that dresser by SWMBO is hot for me to get the dresser done so
................

Thanks again and I will post the results after all this is over.

Dick

In ,
SonomaProducts.com spewed forth:
Not to mention that in 35 years I've NEVER known a Professional
finisher to buy anything minwax, let alone at HD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

1. Well professional finishers do toning all the time with dye in
poly, ie the exact same thing as polyshades.

True, but most finishers that I know still use lacquers.
I guess it's just what you're use to using. I think most people are afraid
of lacquers because they have never used them.
Personally I find them the easiest to use and the most forgiving
jmo


2. I've been paid to do finishing. I use Minwax products when they
make sense. I by at Home Depot.

Again, I gues it's what ever you're used to using.
I've never used any Minwax products and only buy spray enamel at HD.
Lacquers and toners I buy ftom Mohawk or my local Ace that carries them


3. This is 'rec.' woodworking, as in recreational. So my advise was to
a hobbiest not a professional. Also, given the facts that he had a
finished piece and was trying to change it's color with stain as
opposed to stripping\sanding it and I gave him a totally viable
approach.


Even a hobbiest can raise the barg

In ,
spewed forth:
On Jan 6, 1:16 pm, Steve Turner
wrote:

I've been doing hobbyist finishing on cars and boats and furniture
and pretty much everything else for over 30 years, so I ain't no
newbie. I can get acceptable results from Polyshades if I'm forced
to, but I certainly have enough experience to know that I wouldn't
recommend it in the general sense, particularly to beginners, and
particularly when there are so many other products and methods that
yield better results with far less hassle and margin for error. 95%
of the discussions I've seen from others regarding Polyshades backs
my own experience, and many of those people have far more experience
than I do. You must be very experienced indeed if you assume that
the average Joe can use that stuff without wishing they hadn't...

I was gonna snip that a bit, but then I realized I agreed with all of
it.

Two things of an important note to add, though:

1) A professional rarely brushes clear seal finishes. I don't, and
certainly don't know of another professional that brushes toned
finishes. Unless Dick is going to spray, Minwax PS wouldn't be a good
choice. I was careful in reading the tone of his post, and remember
his post on this from before. If I am reading this right, he isn't
ready to learn a brand new way of finishing by learning on a couple of
new pieces before tackling his house furniture.

I have the strongest suspicion that Dick wants to get this over and
done with as quickly as possible. Nothing wrong with that! So by
getting him back to familiar ground he can take it from there based on
his own experience.

2) No one I know that has any background in refinishing would ever put
a new finish over polyurethane. The toughest of the plastic resins,
polyurethane is made specifically to resist adhesion, penetration and
abrasion by foreign materials. That's why it make a great table top
or hard use finish. That is also why it is important to get off
before attempting something like a color match. It it made to resist
all manner of wear, and simply scuffing about with a piece of sand
paper only marginally (if at all) increase adhesion.

Unless you understand that you are simply going to "lay" color on it,
then seal it up by "laying" another coat of something on top of the
urethane resin film, you are going the wrong way. To be exact, it is
like painting plastic.

And remember Steve, one man's ceiling is another man's floor. I see
that all the time in finishing work.

Kinda risky to make comments about another's work sight unseen,
though.

Robert

what he saidg

On Jan 7, 12:46 pm, "Dick Snyder" wrote:

Thanks again and I will post the results after all this is over.

I am sure you will do just fine with the refinishing.

I am glad you get some information out or my posts. I am a serious
night owl, and surf and read a lot on the net in the quiet hours to
soothe my jangled nerves.

With that in mind, I re-read some of my posts and I am surprised at
how poorly they read, how many simple mistakes there are in them, and
how far away my mind wanders when typing. Couple that with with the
fact I hammer away on the keyboard with wild abandon, editing as I
type, and I swear I confuse myself!

So I am glad in the end you were able to decode the posts. If you
have a bad weather day or so more before you start your stripping,
there are more posts on this forum that have good insight into the
processes.

I am looking forward to news of the project.

Also, if you hit a snag or just have a question, hit me back here or
start a new thread to ping me and I will help if I can.

Robert

True, but most finishers that I know still use lacquers.
I guess it's just what you're use to using. I think most people are afraid
of lacquers because they have never used them.
Personally I find them the easiest to use and the most forgiving
jmo

Yup, usually done with lacquer. Yup, lacquer is the best. Getting
harder and harder to get for the non-pro but really the best to work
with. Plus the solvent gives you a better high than most drugs.

In ,
SonomaProducts.com spewed forth:
True, but most finishers that I know still use lacquers.
I guess it's just what you're use to using. I think most people are
afraid of lacquers because they have never used them.
Personally I find them the easiest to use and the most forgiving
jmo

Yup, usually done with lacquer. Yup, lacquer is the best. Getting
harder and harder to get for the non-pro but really the best to work
with. Plus the solvent gives you a better high than most drugs.

love the smell of lacquer in the mornin'g

"ChairMan" wrote

love the smell of lacquer in the mornin'g

Plus, it feels soooo good when you sit on a lacquer soaked rag, long enough
it to soak through to your butt cheeks.

DON'T ask me how I know that!
--
Jim in NC

On Sat, 8 Jan 2011 23:48:23 -0500, "Morgans"
wrote:


"ChairMan" wrote

love the smell of lacquer in the mornin'g

Plus, it feels soooo good when you sit on a lacquer soaked rag, long enough
it to soak through to your butt cheeks.

DON'T ask me how I know that!

Lacquer -thinner- rags are much more interesting when sat upon,
especially when you're centered on it and you catch your nutsack, too.
DAMHIKT

--
You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will
preserve for our children this, the last best hope
of man on Earth, or we will sentence them to take
the last step into a thousand years of darkness.?
-- Ronald Reagan

Lacquer -thinner- rags are much more interesting when sat upon,
especially when you're centered on it and you catch your nutsack, too.
DAMHIKT


I love this forum. Start out by spinng up (yet another) polyshades
controversy and close out talking about lacquer solvent soaked
nutsacks... be careful with the matches!!!

Speaking of lacquer solvent soaked nutsacks...

http://www.spike.com/video/nuts-roasting-on/2676622



"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
...
I love this forum. Start out by spinng up (yet another) polyshades
controversy and close out talking about lacquer solvent soaked
nutsacks... be careful with the matches!!!

On Sun, 9 Jan 2011 12:48:14 -0800 (PST), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:


Lacquer -thinner- rags are much more interesting when sat upon,
especially when you're centered on it and you catch your nutsack, too.
DAMHIKT

I love this forum. Start out by spinng up (yet another) polyshades
controversy and close out talking about lacquer solvent soaked
nutsacks... be careful with the matches!!!

C'mon, do you seriously think it'll end here? vbg

--
You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will
preserve for our children this, the last best hope
of man on Earth, or we will sentence them to take
the last step into a thousand years of darkness.?
-- Ronald Reagan

Lacquer -thinner- rags are much more interesting when sat upon,
especially when you're centered on it and you catch your nutsack, too.
DAMHIKT

I never had considered that possibility.

Thanks for my not sleeping, tonight! ;-)
--
Jim in NC

On Jan 9, 2:02*pm, "Josepi" wrote:
Speaking of lacquer solvent soaked nutsacks...

Ouch. Best ever. I guess I walked right into that one,

On Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:53:28 -0500, "Morgans"
wrote:


Lacquer -thinner- rags are much more interesting when sat upon,
especially when you're centered on it and you catch your nutsack, too.
DAMHIKT

I never had considered that possibility.

Thanks for my not sleeping, tonight! ;-)

Why are you walking with your knees together and your mouth puckerd up
so tightly today, Jim?


--
You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will
preserve for our children this, the last best hope
of man on Earth, or we will sentence them to take
the last step into a thousand years of darkness.?
-- Ronald Reagan

wrote in message
...
On Jan 6, 10:16 am, "Dick Snyder" wrote:

What do you like to use for stripping?

If I go to the paint store to buy stripper, I look for BIX products.
Their "Original" formula will work great on one or two coats of finish
and is pretty safe around veneers.

If the subject has more than one coat, or thick coats of finish, I use
the BIX "Tuff Job" or something like that. It has "Tough" or "Tuff"
on the can. The Tuff grade has a nice feature and that is that I find
it to be more of a gel, so it stays on vertical surfaces a little
easier. In this colder weather, that shouldn't be an issue, though.

I have never had any luck with the soy or organic strippers, nor do I
know anyone that has. I tried it, it didn't work, I won't waste my
time on that again.

Like finishing (in my opinion) people make too much out of stripping.
Search around here on this forum and there is good info on the
processes and procedures including observation of mandatory safety
issues to respect.

A couple of highlights. If you are going to strip in this colder
weather, make sure you allow plenty of time for the stripper to do its
work. They are tested in a laboratory where the temps are a
controlled 70 something. If your shop/garage is 50 - 60 something,
allow a lot more time.

Apply the stripper in even coats, don't just slather it on. The
thicker the stripper, the more bite it will have, and you will get
streaking and highlights (and dark streaks and lowlights). When you
take the time to put the stripper on in even, thick coats it will pay
off in a big way.

Allowing more time due to temp (really high or really low) will make
it easy for the stripper to dry up. No problem. Buy those drop
cloths that are the same thickness of a dry cleaning bag and cover the
piece immediately after coating with stripper. Lay the plastic right
on top of your goo, and buy a couple of packages of those drop cloths
in case you have to strip twice. Cover it in a way that allows you to
pick up a corner and check to see how well it is working.

Don't be afraid to strip twice. This is something that is often
overlooked, but it gives you a great shot to getting ALL the old
finish and stains off. After you have stripped off the finish, wash
it off the surfaces with some cheap lacquer thinner. Sand until you
find your surface smooth and clean, then wipe down one more time with
the lacquer thinner.

You should be in familiar territory after that.

Let us know how it worked out!

Robert
Hi Robert,

I had a couple of detailed questions along with a picture of the dresser I
want to send to you without bothering the group. I tried your email address
but the mail was bounced. Would you mind sending an email to
? Then I would know your return address in order to send
the picture and ask the questions.

Dick