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#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
I am making a kitchen island that will have 3.5" square legs made from
maple. I bought 2 pieces of 16/4 hard maple about 8.5" wide and ripped each one in half leaving me 4 rough ~4x4 pieces about 4 foot long. So, I am trying to square them now on a small 4" jointer that I have. Although I know this Jointer is very accurate, ( set it up with a dial gauge and have successfully flattened and jointed quite a few boards on it) I cannot seem to get 2 sides of these big pieces to be square with each other. When I take them off the jointer and lay them on my table saw, one jointed face down, and put a square between the saw table and the other jointed face there is always a gap. I know the jointer fence is square with the top. This is very frustrating. I'm wondering if I can somehow use my planer to get this thing square all around. Any suggestions? -Jim |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
I would consider this a normal sequence:
This does assume that each tool is tuned and used properly. - Joint one face on each stick - Plane the opposite face straight across from the jointed face. You now have two parallel faces. - Saw one of the untouched faces to establish one square edge. This assumes the saw blade is giving an accurate cut. - Plane the side opposite the newly sawn surface. You now have two sets of parallel faces that should be square on all edges. - I assume at this point that you are very close to finish dimension. Plane to finish dimension, quarter turn each stick to plane to full square. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DanG Keep the whole world singing . . . "jtpr" wrote in message ... I am making a kitchen island that will have 3.5" square legs made from maple. I bought 2 pieces of 16/4 hard maple about 8.5" wide and ripped each one in half leaving me 4 rough ~4x4 pieces about 4 foot long. So, I am trying to square them now on a small 4" jointer that I have. Although I know this Jointer is very accurate, ( set it up with a dial gauge and have successfully flattened and jointed quite a few boards on it) I cannot seem to get 2 sides of these big pieces to be square with each other. When I take them off the jointer and lay them on my table saw, one jointed face down, and put a square between the saw table and the other jointed face there is always a gap. I know the jointer fence is square with the top. This is very frustrating. I'm wondering if I can somehow use my planer to get this thing square all around. Any suggestions? -Jim |
#3
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
On Nov 28, 11:12*am, "DanG" wrote:
I would consider this a normal sequence: This does assume that each tool is tuned and used properly. - Joint one face on each stick - Plane the opposite face straight across from the jointed face. You now have two parallel faces. - Saw one of the untouched faces to establish one square edge. This assumes the saw blade is giving an accurate cut. - Plane the side opposite the newly sawn surface. *You now have two sets of parallel faces that should be square on all edges. - I assume at this point that you are very close to finish dimension. *Plane to finish dimension, quarter turn each stick to plane to full square. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DanG Keep the whole world singing . . . "jtpr" wrote in message ... I am making a kitchen island that will have 3.5" square legs made from maple. *I bought 2 pieces of 16/4 hard maple about 8.5" wide and ripped each one in half leaving me 4 rough ~4x4 pieces about 4 foot long. *So, I am trying to square them now on a small 4" jointer that I have. *Although I know this Jointer is very accurate, ( set it up with a dial gauge and have successfully flattened and jointed quite a few boards on it) I cannot seem to get 2 sides of these big pieces to be square with each other. *When I take them off the jointer and lay them on my table saw, one jointed face down, and put a square between the saw table and the other jointed face there is always a gap. * *I know the jointer fence is square with the top. *This is very frustrating. I'm wondering if I can somehow use my planer to get this thing square all around. Any suggestions? -Jim Thank you, and I would agree. However, my table saw has, at best, a 3.5" cut. So I will have to make 2 cuts on the table saw which doesn't leave a nice finish, but I supppose I can plane it flat. -Jim |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
jtpr wrote:
I am making a kitchen island that will have 3.5" square legs made from maple. I bought 2 pieces of 16/4 hard maple about 8.5" wide and ripped each one in half leaving me 4 rough ~4x4 pieces about 4 foot long. So, I am trying to square them now on a small 4" jointer that I have. Although I know this Jointer is very accurate, ( set it up with a dial gauge and have successfully flattened and jointed quite a few boards on it) I cannot seem to get 2 sides of these big pieces to be square with each other. When I take them off the jointer and lay them on my table saw, one jointed face down, and put a square between the saw table and the other jointed face there is always a gap. I know the jointer fence is square with the top. This is very frustrating. I'm wondering if I can somehow use my planer to get this thing square all around. Any suggestions? Either the jointer fence is _not_ square to the table (or the knives aren't parallel to the table is another possibility) or you're not keeping the previously jointed (reference) face flush against the fence in order to square the next one. Or, if the jointer isn't up to snuff, perhaps the fence moves or is twisted. As another poster noted, you can get two opposite faces parallel w/ the planer but you can _not_ use it to square two faces (at least w/o some other shimming sled, etc., ...) -- |
#5
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
dpb wrote:
.... Either the jointer fence is _not_ square to the table (or the knives aren't parallel to the table is another possibility) or you're not keeping the previously jointed (reference) face flush against the fence in order to square the next one. Or, if the jointer isn't up to snuff, perhaps the fence moves or is twisted. .... Oh, one other possibility is that your square isn't...check two pieces against each other that have been "squared" by the jointer. They can be anything so could use some lighter material to make it easier handling. I'm still suspecting the jointer may just not be stout enough for the material but it's still more likely to be technique or set up... -- |
#6
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
In article ,
jtpr wrote: I am making a kitchen island that will have 3.5" square legs made from maple. I bought 2 pieces of 16/4 hard maple about 8.5" wide and ripped each one in half leaving me 4 rough ~4x4 pieces about 4 foot long. So, I am trying to square them now on a small 4" jointer that I have. Although I know this Jointer is very accurate, ( set it up with a dial gauge and have successfully flattened and jointed quite a few boards on it) I cannot seem to get 2 sides of these big pieces to be square with each other. When I take them off the jointer and lay them on my table saw, one jointed face down, and put a square between the saw table and the other jointed face there is always a gap. I know the jointer fence is square with the top. This is very frustrating. I'm wondering if I can somehow use my planer to get this thing square all around. Any suggestions? -Jim While they are on the table saw, why not square them up right there? F Besides, unless the gap is pretty big, they are probably square enough to use as table legs as is. -- Often wrong, never in doubt. Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org |
#7
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
On 11/28/2010 9:53 AM, jtpr wrote:
Any suggestions? No sense chasing your tail trying to make table legs perfectly square. All you really need are two adjacent faces of the legs perpendicular to each other ... these would be the two surfaces to which the aprons will be attached. Providing your jointer fence is square to the jointer table and the tool is otherwise properly setup, you can indeed use the jointer to make two _adjacent faces_ perpendicular. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 4/15/2010 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#8
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 08:13:37 -0800 (PST), jtpr
wrote: Thank you, and I would agree. However, my table saw has, at best, a 3.5" cut. So I will have to make 2 cuts on the table saw which doesn't leave a nice finish, but I supppose I can plane it flat. Jim, try using a cabinet scraper to smooth the saw cuts. They work VERY well. -- Happiness comes of the capacity to feel deeply, to enjoy simply, to think freely, to risk life, to be needed. -- Storm Jameson |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
"jtpr" wrote in message ... I am making a kitchen island that will have 3.5" square legs made from maple. I bought 2 pieces of 16/4 hard maple about 8.5" wide and ripped each one in half leaving me 4 rough ~4x4 pieces about 4 foot long. So, I am trying to square them now on a small 4" jointer that I have. Although I know this Jointer is very accurate, ( set it up with a dial gauge and have successfully flattened and jointed quite a few boards on it) I cannot seem to get 2 sides of these big pieces to be square with each other. When I take them off the jointer and lay them on my table saw, one jointed face down, and put a square between the saw table and the other jointed face there is always a gap. I know the jointer fence is square with the top. This is very frustrating. I'm wondering if I can somehow use my planer to get this thing square all around. Any suggestions? -Jim Jim, Not trying to be a wise guy here, and assuming the fence is in fact at a right angle to the table, are you pushing the board tight to the fence as you feed it through the jointer? With stock of that shape the tendency is for the board to lay on the tables and for the high spots on the side of the board to touch the fence. This rather than for the side of the board to be tight to the fence and only touch the tables at the "high" spots on the bottom... John |
#10
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 07:53:13 -0800 (PST), jtpr
wrote: I am making a kitchen island that will have 3.5" square legs made from maple. I bought 2 pieces of 16/4 hard maple about 8.5" wide and ripped each one in half leaving me 4 rough ~4x4 pieces about 4 foot long. So, I am trying to square them now on a small 4" jointer that I have. Although I know this Jointer is very accurate, ( set it up with a dial gauge and have successfully flattened and jointed quite a few boards on it) I cannot seem to get 2 sides of these big pieces to be square with each other. When I take them off the jointer and lay them on my table saw, one jointed face down, and put a square between the saw table and the other jointed face there is always a gap. I know the jointer fence is square with the top. This is very frustrating. I'm wondering if I can somehow use my planer to get this thing square all around. Any suggestions? -Jim This reminds me of my High School freshman wood shop class. For us to be able to use, and appreciate, the power tools we first had to prove we could use hand tools. One of the tasks was to get a scrap piece of wood and after our instructor measured it, he would tell us what size, length, width and height; it must be reduced to. The only tools we could use were a hand plane, a square and a tape measure and absolutely no sandpaper. All measurements not only had to be the exact dimensions he specified but all the faces had to be exactly square, parallel and perpendicular to the other respective faces for the entire length. He inspected all wood blocks very closely. Some kids took several weeks for each task. I'm sure with a little time you could do it by hand. If you do, just think of the pride you will have when completed. |
#11
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
"John Grossbohlin" wrote in message m... "jtpr" wrote in message ... I am making a kitchen island that will have 3.5" square legs made from maple. I bought 2 pieces of 16/4 hard maple about 8.5" wide and ripped each one in half leaving me 4 rough ~4x4 pieces about 4 foot long. So, I am trying to square them now on a small 4" jointer that I have. Although I know this Jointer is very accurate, ( set it up with a dial gauge and have successfully flattened and jointed quite a few boards on it) I cannot seem to get 2 sides of these big pieces to be square with each other. When I take them off the jointer and lay them on my table saw, one jointed face down, and put a square between the saw table and the other jointed face there is always a gap. I know the jointer fence is square with the top. This is very frustrating. I'm wondering if I can somehow use my planer to get this thing square all around. Any suggestions? -Jim Jim, Not trying to be a wise guy here, and assuming the fence is in fact at a right angle to the table, are you pushing the board tight to the fence as you feed it through the jointer? With stock of that shape the tendency is for the board to lay on the tables and for the high spots on the side of the board to touch the fence. This rather than for the side of the board to be tight to the fence and only touch the tables at the "high" spots on the bottom... John John, That didn't sound like a wise guy, sounded like good advice. Was wondering if there's an upright version of a jointer? So that the board lay on what used to be the fence, and what used to be the table is now the fence, and the axis of the jointer cutterhead vertical rather than horizontal? I'm obviously not an experienced woodworker. Thanks, Kerry |
#12
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
As I understand it - joiner for a flat side.
A planner makes a parallel side. The trick is to transfer a vertical parallel side to transfer onto the joiner table/blade. It is how the wood is held while pushing it through naturally. Lacking a planer, one must have a flat side and use that off the fence cutting another as you rotate the leg step by step. Martin On 11/28/2010 10:28 AM, dpb wrote: dpb wrote: ... Either the jointer fence is _not_ square to the table (or the knives aren't parallel to the table is another possibility) or you're not keeping the previously jointed (reference) face flush against the fence in order to square the next one. Or, if the jointer isn't up to snuff, perhaps the fence moves or is twisted. ... Oh, one other possibility is that your square isn't...check two pieces against each other that have been "squared" by the jointer. They can be anything so could use some lighter material to make it easier handling. I'm still suspecting the jointer may just not be stout enough for the material but it's still more likely to be technique or set up... -- |
#13
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 20:31:37 -0600, Martin Eastburn
wrote: As I understand it - joiner for a flat side. A planner makes a parallel side. The trick is to transfer a vertical parallel side to transfer onto the joiner table/blade. It is how the wood is held while pushing it through naturally. Lacking a planer, one must have a flat side and use that off the fence cutting another as you rotate the leg step by step. Martin On 11/28/2010 10:28 AM, dpb wrote: dpb wrote: ... Either the jointer fence is _not_ square to the table (or the knives aren't parallel to the table is another possibility) or you're not keeping the previously jointed (reference) face flush against the fence in order to square the next one. Or, if the jointer isn't up to snuff, perhaps the fence moves or is twisted. ... Oh, one other possibility is that your square isn't...check two pieces against each other that have been "squared" by the jointer. They can be anything so could use some lighter material to make it easier handling. I'm still suspecting the jointer may just not be stout enough for the material but it's still more likely to be technique or set up... -- I'd be jointing one side straight, then planing the opposite surface to match, then jointing the third side straight, and running it through the planer again to square up the 4th side. After all 4 sides are trued up, use the planer to reduce to the desired dimensions. Square it up first removing as little wood as possible to allow for some fine tuning if required. |
#14
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
That would be a router table or a shaper with a huge vertical face bit!
That would be harder to handle keeping it flat against a vertical cutting fence. The opposite side could still be ragged and rough so a pushing fence would not work as a jointer but possibly as a planer. "Kerry Montgomery" wrote in message ... John, That didn't sound like a wise guy, sounded like good advice. Was wondering if there's an upright version of a jointer? So that the board lay on what used to be the fence, and what used to be the table is now the fence, and the axis of the jointer cutterhead vertical rather than horizontal? I'm obviously not an experienced woodworker. Thanks, Kerry |
#15
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
That would be a router table or a shaper with a huge vertical face bit!
That would be harder to handle keeping it flat against a vertical cutting fence. The opposite side could still be ragged and rough so a pushing fence would not work as a jointer but possibly as a planer. "Kerry Montgomery" wrote in message ... John, That didn't sound like a wise guy, sounded like good advice. Was wondering if there's an upright version of a jointer? So that the board lay on what used to be the fence, and what used to be the table is now the fence, and the axis of the jointer cutterhead vertical rather than horizontal? I'm obviously not an experienced woodworker. Thanks, Kerry |
#16
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
"Kerry Montgomery" wrote in message ... "John Grossbohlin" wrote in message m... "jtpr" wrote in message ... I am making a kitchen island that will have 3.5" square legs made from maple. I bought 2 pieces of 16/4 hard maple about 8.5" wide and ripped each one in half leaving me 4 rough ~4x4 pieces about 4 foot long. So, I am trying to square them now on a small 4" jointer that I have. Although I know this Jointer is very accurate, ( set it up with a dial gauge and have successfully flattened and jointed quite a few boards on it) I cannot seem to get 2 sides of these big pieces to be square with each other. When I take them off the jointer and lay them on my table saw, one jointed face down, and put a square between the saw table and the other jointed face there is always a gap. I know the jointer fence is square with the top. This is very frustrating. I'm wondering if I can somehow use my planer to get this thing square all around. Any suggestions? -Jim Jim, Not trying to be a wise guy here, and assuming the fence is in fact at a right angle to the table, are you pushing the board tight to the fence as you feed it through the jointer? With stock of that shape the tendency is for the board to lay on the tables and for the high spots on the side of the board to touch the fence. This rather than for the side of the board to be tight to the fence and only touch the tables at the "high" spots on the bottom... John John, That didn't sound like a wise guy, sounded like good advice. Was wondering if there's an upright version of a jointer? So that the board lay on what used to be the fence, and what used to be the table is now the fence, and the axis of the jointer cutterhead vertical rather than horizontal? I'm obviously not an experienced woodworker. Thanks, Kerry You could do that with a shaper and a split fence.... The limitation would be how tall of a cutter you could find within the context of bigger shapers taking bigger cutters. I suppose it would be possible to set up a stock feeder to keep the wood tight against the fence. However, you are going to need something bigger than a 4" jointer for that simply due to the size and weight of the stock feeder. John |
#17
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
How would you square up the sides to the top/bottom, though? I have seen
this attempted by others and it becomes a comedy sometimes, like the trimming the stool legs. Initial jointing and opposite side planing then after square testing, shim as necessary and replane? I don't own a planer. Can the pressure rollers be put on a slope to accomodate this? wrote in message news I'd be jointing one side straight, then planing the opposite surface to match, then jointing the third side straight, and running it through the planer again to square up the 4th side. After all 4 sides are trued up, use the planer to reduce to the desired dimensions. Square it up first removing as little wood as possible to allow for some fine tuning if required. |
#18
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 18:17:33 -0800, "Kerry Montgomery"
wrote: "John Grossbohlin" wrote in message om... "jtpr" wrote in message ... I am making a kitchen island that will have 3.5" square legs made from maple. I bought 2 pieces of 16/4 hard maple about 8.5" wide and ripped each one in half leaving me 4 rough ~4x4 pieces about 4 foot long. So, I am trying to square them now on a small 4" jointer that I have. Although I know this Jointer is very accurate, ( set it up with a dial gauge and have successfully flattened and jointed quite a few boards on it) I cannot seem to get 2 sides of these big pieces to be square with each other. When I take them off the jointer and lay them on my table saw, one jointed face down, and put a square between the saw table and the other jointed face there is always a gap. I know the jointer fence is square with the top. This is very frustrating. I'm wondering if I can somehow use my planer to get this thing square all around. Any suggestions? -Jim Jim, Not trying to be a wise guy here, and assuming the fence is in fact at a right angle to the table, are you pushing the board tight to the fence as you feed it through the jointer? With stock of that shape the tendency is for the board to lay on the tables and for the high spots on the side of the board to touch the fence. This rather than for the side of the board to be tight to the fence and only touch the tables at the "high" spots on the bottom... John John, That didn't sound like a wise guy, sounded like good advice. Was wondering if there's an upright version of a jointer? So that the board lay on what used to be the fence, and what used to be the table is now the fence, and the axis of the jointer cutterhead vertical rather than horizontal? I'm obviously not an experienced woodworker. Thanks, Kerry They do exist - generally called a spindle shaper IIRC. Or a Spindle Moulder Or a vertical jointer. They are not terribly common today. A honking big table router would also work I've done 2" on the router table, not sure how much bigger cutters would be available. |
#19
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
Gordon Shumway wrote:
This reminds me of my High School freshman wood shop class. For us to be able to use, and appreciate, the power tools we first had to prove we could use hand tools. One of the tasks was to get a scrap piece of wood and after our instructor measured it, he would tell us what size, length, width and height; it must be reduced to. The only tools we could use were a hand plane, a square and a tape measure and absolutely no sandpaper. All measurements not only had to be the exact dimensions he specified but all the faces had to be exactly square, parallel and perpendicular to the other respective faces for the entire length. He inspected all wood blocks very closely. Some kids took several weeks for each task. I can't imagine that many, if any high scholl freshmen ever made it on to the power tools based on what you describe. But then again, we usually remember these things a bit more dramatically than they actually occurred. You're specifiying quite a piece of workmanship - something that takes a tradesman a while to master, and you're suggesting that this was a qualifier for high school freshman? Somehow, I find this very hard to believe. -- -Mike- |
#20
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
Josepi wrote:
How would you square up the sides to the top/bottom, though? I have seen this attempted by others and it becomes a comedy sometimes, like the trimming the stool legs. Initial jointing and opposite side planing then after square testing, shim as necessary and replane? I don't own a planer. Can the pressure rollers be put on a slope to accomodate this? .... Specifically that way, no. It is difficult to square two faces w/ a planer (to the point I'd not even bother trying as a general rule). Even if a side is flattened as reference, if the adjacent face is flattened there's no guarantee it's consistent along it's length with the previous face (the two surfaces can be twisted relative to each other). So, there's not a guarantee that a single reference shim will get you square thru the planer. The technique is to start w/ the reference face and then having a square fence on the jointer, hold that reference face against the fence for indexing rather than holding the face being jointed solidly on the table. It helps if one has gotten close w/ table saw or bandsaw or even w/ hand plane or however initially, of course. I'm not sure what point of Martin's followup was--intended simply as confirmation in other wording or was trying to what...??? OP's problem is indeterminate for certain from afar -- if one presumes the tools are indeed aligned and accurate then it's technique. OTOH, sometimes one thinks things are what they aren't--if his square weren't quite so, for example, or the jointer fence isn't or... -- |
#21
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
Kerry Montgomery wrote:
.... if there's an upright version of a jointer? So that the board lay on what used to be the fence, and what used to be the table is now the fence, and the axis of the jointer cutterhead vertical rather than horizontal? I'm obviously not an experienced woodworker. .... Actually, not sure if anybody makes one now, but in the early 70s-80s time frame Delta introduced precisely that....unfortunately, I can't even recall at the moment what it was they called it. It didn't make a big hit and didn't last very long. I saw one in an auction list not terribly long ago but don't have a link at the moment, sorry... Maybe one of the other oldtimers will recall them. If I get some time I'll try to find one of the old catalogs or do a google and see if can find any links to the past... Never owned one, did get chance to use one once't. Handy and useful but not indispensible, obviously. IIRC, the cutter head cutting radius was about 8" or less. It used a set of inset knives on a surface plate and was able to joint very tiny and thin pieces that couldn't be considered on a normal jointer since there was a support plate behind the knives instead of the open gap on a jointer table. -- |
#22
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
dpb wrote:
Kerry Montgomery wrote: ... if there's an upright version of a jointer? So that the board lay on what used to be the fence, and what used to be the table is now the fence, and the axis of the jointer cutterhead vertical rather than horizontal? I'm obviously not an experienced woodworker. ... Actually, not sure if anybody makes one now, but in the early 70s-80s time frame Delta introduced precisely that....unfortunately, I can't even recall at the moment what it was they called it. It didn't make a big hit and didn't last very long. I saw one in an auction list not terribly long ago but don't have a link at the moment, sorry... .... OK, there is one at the OWWM site...they were the "Uniplane"... http://www.owwm.com/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=209 -- |
#23
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
On Nov 29, 10:22*am, dpb wrote:
dpb wrote: Kerry Montgomery wrote: ... if there's an upright version of a jointer? So that the board lay on what used to be the fence, and what used to be the table is now the fence, and the axis of the jointer cutterhead vertical rather than horizontal? I'm obviously not an experienced woodworker. ... Actually, not sure if anybody makes one now, but in the early 70s-80s time frame Delta introduced precisely that....unfortunately, I can't even recall at the moment what it was they called it. *It didn't make a big hit and didn't last very long. *I saw one in an auction list not terribly long ago but don't have a link at the moment, sorry... ... OK, there is one at the OWWM site...they were the "Uniplane"... http://www.owwm.com/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=209 -- Well, I did manage to get things so that they are square within about 1/32--1/16 of an inch which is close enough for what I'm doing. I was pushing the piece against the fence and not the table, and eventually, with a lot of work, got 3 legs done. I need to invest in a bigger, better jointer for projects this size. Thank you all for all the help. -Jim |
#24
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 23:14:44 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote: Gordon Shumway wrote: This reminds me of my High School freshman wood shop class. For us to be able to use, and appreciate, the power tools we first had to prove we could use hand tools. One of the tasks was to get a scrap piece of wood and after our instructor measured it, he would tell us what size, length, width and height; it must be reduced to. The only tools we could use were a hand plane, a square and a tape measure and absolutely no sandpaper. All measurements not only had to be the exact dimensions he specified but all the faces had to be exactly square, parallel and perpendicular to the other respective faces for the entire length. He inspected all wood blocks very closely. Some kids took several weeks for each task. I can't imagine that many, if any high scholl freshmen ever made it on to the power tools based on what you describe. But then again, we usually remember these things a bit more dramatically than they actually occurred. You're specifiying quite a piece of workmanship - something that takes a tradesman a while to master, and you're suggesting that this was a qualifier for high school freshman? Somehow, I find this very hard to believe. It shouldn't be hard to believe because it is true. When inspecting the surfaces for flatness and squareness he would hold the piece up to the light and if he saw ANY light between the piece and the square you had some more work to do. Also don't forget that we only had about 45 minutes a day to accomplish this work. One of the other tasks was to create a half lap joint using only a hammer and chisel. I still have a scar on my left thumb from that 50 year old memory. I also have a great appreciation for power tools. |
#25
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
jtpr wrote:
.... Well, I did manage to get things so that they are square within about 1/32--1/16 of an inch which is close enough for what I'm doing. I was pushing the piece against the fence and not the table, and eventually, with a lot of work, got 3 legs done. I need to invest in a bigger, better jointer for projects this size. .... Did you try the test on a couple pieces of (say), 4x4 pine (could even build it up out of a couple scrap tubafor for the purpose) to check on the accuracy of the jointer/fence setup? Should be much easier to machine and two placed facing each other on the flat surface of the saw table or similar should match precisely or show double the error... If that doesn't work well, then the setup just isn't right (or the fence moves or something...) -- |
#26
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
On Nov 29, 12:33*pm, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 23:14:44 -0500, "Mike Marlow" wrote: Gordon Shumway wrote: This reminds me of my High School freshman wood shop class. *For us to be able to use, and appreciate, the power tools we first had to prove we could use hand tools. *One of the tasks was to get a scrap piece of wood and after our instructor measured it, he would tell us what size, length, width and height; it must be reduced to. *The only tools we could use were a hand plane, a square and a tape measure and absolutely no sandpaper. *All measurements not only had to be the exact dimensions he specified but all the faces had to be exactly square, parallel and perpendicular to the other respective faces for the entire length. *He inspected all wood blocks very closely. *Some kids took several weeks for each task. I can't imagine that many, if any high scholl freshmen ever made it on to the power tools based on what you describe. *But then again, we usually remember these things a bit more dramatically than they actually occurred. You're specifiying quite a piece of workmanship - something that takes a tradesman a while to master, and you're suggesting that this was a qualifier for high school freshman? *Somehow, I find this very hard to believe. It shouldn't be hard to believe because it is true. *When inspecting the surfaces for flatness and squareness he would hold the piece up to the light and if he saw ANY light between the piece and the square you had some more work to do. *Also don't forget that we only had about 45 minutes a day to accomplish this work. One of the other tasks was to create a half lap joint using only a hammer and chisel. *I still have a scar on my left thumb from that 50 year old memory. *I also have a great appreciation for power tools. I was recently reading an article in one of the mags about some school (North Bennett?) that uses this same methodology. It does seem a sound way to teach youngsters about a craft. -Jim |
#27
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 22:32:30 -0500, "Josepi"
wrote: How would you square up the sides to the top/bottom, though? I have seen this attempted by others and it becomes a comedy sometimes, like the trimming the stool legs. Initial jointing and opposite side planing then after square testing, shim as necessary and replane? I don't own a planer. Can the pressure rollers be put on a slope to accomodate this? Nope, but you've obviously not used one. If the first side is jointed straight, the second parallel side will always come out parallel and straight. The third side is a repeat of the first, using the jointer, and the 4th side then also comes out parallel and straight - and if the third edge is jointed square, which is not difficult, the whole part will be "square" - could be a rectangle, but 2 sets of sides will be equall, and all corners will be 90 degree (or VERY close) wrote in message news I'd be jointing one side straight, then planing the opposite surface to match, then jointing the third side straight, and running it through the planer again to square up the 4th side. After all 4 sides are trued up, use the planer to reduce to the desired dimensions. Square it up first removing as little wood as possible to allow for some fine tuning if required. |
#28
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 22:20:21 -0500, "Josepi"
wrote: That would be a router table or a shaper with a huge vertical face bit! That would be harder to handle keeping it flat against a vertical cutting fence. The opposite side could still be ragged and rough so a pushing fence would not work as a jointer but possibly as a planer. "Kerry Montgomery" wrote in message ... John, That didn't sound like a wise guy, sounded like good advice. Was wondering if there's an upright version of a jointer? So that the board lay on what used to be the fence, and what used to be the table is now the fence, and the axis of the jointer cutterhead vertical rather than horizontal? I'm obviously not an experienced woodworker. Thanks, Kerry No, actually it works very well - and is quite simple. A Kreg router table and fence is a joy to work on - and it's not terribly hard to make your own that will work just as well. The long cutter is the hardest part to locate. (or make) |
#29
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 08:54:14 -0600, dpb wrote:
Kerry Montgomery wrote: ... if there's an upright version of a jointer? So that the board lay on what used to be the fence, and what used to be the table is now the fence, and the axis of the jointer cutterhead vertical rather than horizontal? I'm obviously not an experienced woodworker. ... Actually, not sure if anybody makes one now, but in the early 70s-80s time frame Delta introduced precisely that....unfortunately, I can't even recall at the moment what it was they called it. It didn't make a big hit and didn't last very long. I saw one in an auction list not terribly long ago but don't have a link at the moment, sorry... Maybe one of the other oldtimers will recall them. If I get some time I'll try to find one of the old catalogs or do a google and see if can find any links to the past... Never owned one, did get chance to use one once't. Handy and useful but not indispensible, obviously. IIRC, the cutter head cutting radius was about 8" or less. It used a set of inset knives on a surface plate and was able to joint very tiny and thin pieces that couldn't be considered on a normal jointer since there was a support plate behind the knives instead of the open gap on a jointer table. You talking about a veneer jointer? |
#30
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 09:22:21 -0600, dpb wrote:
dpb wrote: Kerry Montgomery wrote: ... if there's an upright version of a jointer? So that the board lay on what used to be the fence, and what used to be the table is now the fence, and the axis of the jointer cutterhead vertical rather than horizontal? I'm obviously not an experienced woodworker. ... Actually, not sure if anybody makes one now, but in the early 70s-80s time frame Delta introduced precisely that....unfortunately, I can't even recall at the moment what it was they called it. It didn't make a big hit and didn't last very long. I saw one in an auction list not terribly long ago but don't have a link at the moment, sorry... ... OK, there is one at the OWWM site...they were the "Uniplane"... http://www.owwm.com/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=209 A different animal than I was thinking of. |
#31
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
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#32
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
In article ,
dpb wrote: Kerry Montgomery wrote: ... if there's an upright version of a jointer? So that the board lay on what used to be the fence, and what used to be the table is now the fence, and the axis of the jointer cutterhead vertical rather than horizontal? I'm obviously not an experienced woodworker. ... Actually, not sure if anybody makes one now, but in the early 70s-80s time frame Delta introduced precisely that....unfortunately, I can't even recall at the moment what it was they called it. It didn't make a big hit and didn't last very long. I saw one in an auction list not terribly long ago but don't have a link at the moment, sorry... ...snipped... I believe you're referring to the Uniplane. http://www.owwm.com/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=209 -- Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one. Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org |
#33
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
All the deli counters have them for the cold cuts.
"Larry W" wrote in message ... I believe you're referring to the Uniplane. http://www.owwm.com/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=209 -- |
#34
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
All the deli counters have them for the cold cuts.
"Larry W" wrote in message ... I believe you're referring to the Uniplane. http://www.owwm.com/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=209 -- |
#35
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Trying to square a 4x4 piece of hard maple
You have to hold it tight to the fence and let the cutter cut off the
bottom. It would be nice to have a sliding fence so you could clamp it tight. With only a joiner - you have 1 true edge and three held to the fence trying to cut the bottom to match a 90 of the fence. A planner is handy to make two sided parallel. Martin On 11/28/2010 9:32 PM, Josepi wrote: How would you square up the sides to the top/bottom, though? I have seen this attempted by others and it becomes a comedy sometimes, like the trimming the stool legs. Initial jointing and opposite side planing then after square testing, shim as necessary and replane? I don't own a planer. Can the pressure rollers be put on a slope to accomodate this? wrote in message news I'd be jointing one side straight, then planing the opposite surface to match, then jointing the third side straight, and running it through the planer again to square up the 4th side. After all 4 sides are trued up, use the planer to reduce to the desired dimensions. Square it up first removing as little wood as possible to allow for some fine tuning if required. |
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