http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BExGi9HbLSM

Neat demonstration of the need for woodworking accuracy.

On Nov 3, 8:15*pm, GarageWoodworks
wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BExGi9HbLSM

Neat demonstration of the need for woodworking accuracy.

Scratch that. Make that "The advantages of woodworking accuracy"

Where is the glue going to go?

"GarageWoodworks" wrote in message
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BExGi9HbLSM

Neat demonstration of the need for woodworking accuracy.

In article ,
GarageWoodworks wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BExGi9HbLSM

Neat demonstration of the need for woodworking accuracy.

It is neat, but they cannot demonstrate any real need for the
pricey tools they sell
--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation
with the average voter. (Winston Churchill)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On 11/3/10 10:04 PM, Larry W wrote:
In ,
wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BExGi9HbLSM

Neat demonstration of the need for woodworking accuracy.

It is neat, but they cannot demonstrate any real need for the
pricey tools they sell

There are lots of tools we don't "need."


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Larry W" wrote in message
It is neat, but they cannot demonstrate any real need for the
pricey tools they sell

Really? Just for information's sake, try asking Leon how often he uses his
Kerfmaker Pro? Or perhaps, ask Bridge City what the waiting period is for
one of their Jointmaker Pro tools? Most would consider them extremely pricey
and the waiting period is months and months. But, low and behold, there are
many people on the waiting list for one. That includes me.

Need and price are most certainly relative to the person that is going to
use the tool. When you get down to it, few of us need more than a pocket
knife to build our projects, but it sure is nice and convenient to have
those additional tools on hand.

"Josepi" wrote in message
...
Where is the glue going to go?

"GarageWoodworks" wrote in message
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BExGi9HbLSM

Neat demonstration of the need for woodworking accuracy.




In the joint oc course. If some squeeses out that is perfectly fine. The
thinner the glue film the better.

"Larry W" wrote in message
...
In article
,
GarageWoodworks wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BExGi9HbLSM

Neat demonstration of the need for woodworking accuracy.

It is neat, but they cannot demonstrate any real need for the
pricey tools they sell
--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation
with the average voter. (Winston Churchill)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

I have the "tool" and have used it more times in the last year than I
thought I would ever use it. In particular I needed to create muntons for
my tower bed project earlier this year. Basically I inserted fake window
frames in 8 openings in my head board and foot boards. The pieces were
3/32" thick and all joints were lap joints. Perfect fit for all 96 joints.

On Nov 4, 8:52*am, "Leon" wrote:

I have the "tool" and have used it more times in the last year than I
thought I would ever use it. *In particular I needed to create muntons for
my tower bed project earlier this year. *Basically I inserted fake window
frames in 8 openings in my head board and foot boards. *The pieces were
3/32" thick and all joints were lap joints. *Perfect fit for all 96 joints.

We expect no less from you - perfect fits every time. BTW, with your
new 3 horse-drawn carriage shop we're going to expect better than
perfect.

R

On Nov 3, 9:52*pm, "Josepi" wrote:

Where is the glue going to go?

Into the wood fibers. You sure you're not using adhesive caulk?

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Nov 4, 8:52 am, "Leon" wrote:

I have the "tool" and have used it more times in the last year than I
thought I would ever use it. In particular I needed to create muntons for
my tower bed project earlier this year. Basically I inserted fake window
frames in 8 openings in my head board and foot boards. The pieces were
3/32" thick and all joints were lap joints. Perfect fit for all 96 joints.

We expect no less from you - perfect fits every time. BTW, with your
new 3 horse-drawn carriage shop we're going to expect better than
perfect.

R

Better would be good.... but more breathing room for sure. LOL

The joint, promoted, has no space for glue.
How about 0 thickness? Would that be the strongest?

I guess there would be some absoption (or would the joint fit together due
to swelling?)


"Leon" wrote in message
...
In the joint oc course. If some squeeses out that is perfectly fine. The
thinner the glue film the better.



"Josepi" wrote in message
...
Where is the glue going to go?

"GarageWoodworks" wrote in message
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BExGi9HbLSM

Neat demonstration of the need for woodworking accuracy.

"Josepi" wrote in message
...
The joint, promoted, has no space for glue.
How about 0 thickness? Would that be the strongest?

I guess there would be some absoption (or would the joint fit together due
to swelling?)


If you are glueing up two panels edge to edge and clamp up that union, how
thick is that glue line? Naturally you would want to put a minimal amount
but complete coverage layer in the bottom of the lap joints, but any more
than enough to cover is too much.
Earlier this year as mentioned in another post on this thread I was working
on a project with 96 lap joints. These joints were 1/2" wide and 3/64" deep
for a combined thickness of 3/32". The joints were tight enough to hold the
assembly together with out glue as proven by the test fit. Applying the
proper amount of glue posed no problem with fit.
Had there been any weak joints the 8 assemblies would have flown apart
during their 3-4 trips through the drum sander.

The video demo link provided showed a tight fitting joint that encompassed
each piece of wood, not a lap joint or "edge to edge" where any amout of
adhesive would fit.

If you put wood glue on the insdie surfaces of one of these tight joint
"pockets" the wood would likely swell and the joint would no longer fit
together. I am sure most experienced wood workers have experiences this
trauma at some point after doing very precise machining and then gluing. A
mallet and prayer comes to mind in these cases...LOL

Agreed and point taken on the thinness of the glue in the joint, though.



"Leon" wrote in message
...
If you are glueing up two panels edge to edge and clamp up that union, how
thick is that glue line? Naturally you would want to put a minimal amount
but complete coverage layer in the bottom of the lap joints, but any more
than enough to cover is too much.
Earlier this year as mentioned in another post on this thread I was working
on a project with 96 lap joints. These joints were 1/2" wide and 3/64" deep
for a combined thickness of 3/32". The joints were tight enough to hold the
assembly together with out glue as proven by the test fit. Applying the
proper amount of glue posed no problem with fit.
Had there been any weak joints the 8 assemblies would have flown apart
during their 3-4 trips through the drum sander.


"Josepi" wrote in message
...
The joint, promoted, has no space for glue.
How about 0 thickness? Would that be the strongest?

I guess there would be some absoption (or would the joint fit together due
to swelling?)

On 11/4/10 9:18 AM, Josepi wrote:
The joint, promoted, has no space for glue.

Myth.


How about 0 thickness? Would that be the strongest?


No, did you watch the video?


I guess there would be some absoption (or would the joint fit together due
to swelling?)


The joint fits. The strength is in the joint, due in part to the
tightness of the fit.
The glue is simply holding the two pieces together.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Nale Bangha" wrote in message
...
"Leon" wrote:

Enjoying being trolled. Dickhead!
Wake up to the environment and smell the troll ****.

Nale

Bite Me

Leon wrote:
"Nale Bangha" wrote in message
...
"Leon" wrote:

Enjoying being trolled. Dickhead!
Wake up to the environment and smell the troll ****.

Nale

Bite Me

Now Leon - that's just not like you...

--

-Mike-

Nale Bangha wrote:
"Leon" wrote:
"Josepi" wrote in message
...
The joint, promoted, has no space for glue.
How about 0 thickness? Would that be the strongest?

I guess there would be some absoption (or would the joint fit
together due to swelling?)


If you are glueing up two panels edge to edge and clamp up that
union, how thick is that glue line? Naturally you would want to put
a minimal amount but complete coverage layer in the bottom of the
lap joints, but any more than enough to cover is too much.
Earlier this year as mentioned in another post on this thread I was
working on a project with 96 lap joints. These joints were 1/2"
wide and 3/64" deep for a combined thickness of 3/32". The joints
were tight enough to hold the assembly together with out glue as
proven by the test fit. Applying the proper amount of glue posed no
problem with fit.
Had there been any weak joints the 8 assemblies would have flown
apart during their 3-4 trips through the drum sander.

Enjoying being trolled. Dickhead!
Wake up to the environment and smell the troll ****.

Nale

Welcome to the world of don't give a **** people, asshole. Real, honest
people like you will find here eaily dismiss idiots like yourself - and we
don't care a wit about doing so. Dickead, indead - that would be what is
commonly referred to as projection. So Dichead - how does that troll ****
taste in your mouth?


--

-Mike-

Just our local Usenet troll that like to follow me around for the last six
or seven years.

Goes by hopper, Tazoar and a miriad of other names in different groups.
Prides himself in how many groups he can "bring to their knees"


"Leon" wrote in message
...
Bite Me

"Nale Bangha" wrote in message
...
"Leon" wrote:

Enjoying being trolled. Dickhead!
Wake up to the environment and smell the troll ****.

Nale

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
"Nale Bangha" wrote in message
...
"Leon" wrote:

Enjoying being trolled. Dickhead!
Wake up to the environment and smell the troll ****.

Nale

Bite Me

Now Leon - that's just not like you...


I know..... no misspelled workd or anything.

On 11/4/2010 1:16 PM, Leon wrote:
"Mike wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
"Nale wrote in message
...
wrote:

Enjoying being trolled. Dickhead!
Wake up to the environment and smell the troll ****.

Nale

Bite Me

Now Leon - that's just not like you...


I know..... no misspelled workd or anything.

This is the digital age, dood ... that should be "Byte me"!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Josepi" wrote in message
...
The joint, promoted, has no space for glue.
How about 0 thickness? Would that be the strongest?

I guess there would be some absoption (or would the joint fit together due
to swelling?)

My handcut dovetails genrally have zero clearance... but they stay together.

Leaving room for glue is overrated. ;~)

John

On 11/4/10 3:31 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

Leaving room for glue is overrated. ;~)


It's an excuse for poor craftsmanship. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

In article ,
Upscale wrote:

"Larry W" wrote in message
It is neat, but they cannot demonstrate any real need for the
pricey tools they sell

Really? Just for information's sake, try asking Leon how often he uses his
Kerfmaker Pro? Or perhaps, ask Bridge City what the waiting period is for
one of their Jointmaker Pro tools? Most would consider them extremely pricey
and the waiting period is months and months. But, low and behold, there are
many people on the waiting list for one. That includes me.

Need and price are most certainly relative to the person that is going to
use the tool. When you get down to it, few of us need more than a pocket
knife to build our projects, but it sure is nice and convenient to have
those additional tools on hand.



Well of course it really comes down to opinion and individual preference
in this instance. For my own needs and preferences, I stand by my
statement of opinion that the Kerfmaker is an unnecessary, exorbitantly
priced, and overrated tool. I'll stick with the old method, accurate,
tried and true in my experience, and described in the past on the rec,
of cutting any old piece of scrap as a guide. YMMV and your opinion
may be different. That's what makes the world and usenet go round.


--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation
with the average voter. (Winston Churchill)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On Nov 4, 5:32*pm, (Larry W) wrote:
Upscale wrote:

Need and price are most certainly relative to the person that is going to
use the tool. When you get down to it, few of us need more than a pocket
knife to build our projects, but it sure is nice and convenient to have
those additional tools on hand.

Well of course it really comes down to opinion and individual preference
in this instance. For my own needs and preferences, I stand by my
statement of opinion that the Kerfmaker is an unnecessary, exorbitantly
priced, and overrated tool. I'll stick with the old method, accurate,
tried and true in my experience, and described in the past on the rec,
of cutting any old piece of scrap as a guide. YMMV and your opinion
may be different. That's what makes the world and usenet go round.

It's so much quicker to have firm opinions on tools you've never
used. And cheaper.

R

On Nov 4, 4:35*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
On 11/4/10 3:31 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

Leaving room for glue is overrated. ;~)

It's an excuse for poor craftsmanship. * :-)

Even if it's really good glue? Even if Festool made glue and had a
Festool Psycron glue dispenser with metric gap filling settings?

R

On 11/4/10 4:36 PM, RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 4, 4:35 pm, wrote:
On 11/4/10 3:31 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

Leaving room for glue is overrated. ;~)

It's an excuse for poor craftsmanship. :-)

Even if it's really good glue? Even if Festool made glue and had a
Festool Psycron glue dispenser with metric gap filling settings?

R

You don't need glue with Festool saws.
They leave behind a hook and loop surface that bonds, instantly, when
the joint is put together.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

In article ,
RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 4, 5:32*pm, (Larry W) wrote:
Upscale wrote:

Need and price are most certainly relative to the person that is going to
use the tool. When you get down to it, few of us need more than a pocket
knife to build our projects, but it sure is nice and convenient to have
those additional tools on hand.

Well of course it really comes down to opinion and individual preference
in this instance. For my own needs and preferences, I stand by my
statement of opinion that the Kerfmaker is an unnecessary, exorbitantly
priced, and overrated tool. I'll stick with the old method, accurate,
tried and true in my experience, and described in the past on the rec,
of cutting any old piece of scrap as a guide. YMMV and your opinion
may be different. That's what makes the world and usenet go round.

It's so much quicker to have firm opinions on tools you've never
used. And cheaper.

R

Indeed it is, I must admit when I first saw the B&D adjustable wrench with
a battery powered motor to do the adjusting, I reached a similar opinion
even more quickly. On the other hand, I really like my old Delta cast iron
tenoning jig, and there are plenty here on the rec that will tell me I'm a
fool for having one.



--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation
with the average voter. (Winston Churchill)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 11/4/10 4:36 PM, RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 4, 4:35 pm, wrote:
On 11/4/10 3:31 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

Leaving room for glue is overrated. ;~)

It's an excuse for poor craftsmanship. :-)

Even if it's really good glue? Even if Festool made glue and had a
Festool Psycron glue dispenser with metric gap filling settings?

R

You don't need glue with Festool saws.
They leave behind a hook and loop surface that bonds, instantly, when the
joint is put together.

I hear the new L-N glue will allow the various pieces of wood to grow
together seamlessly.

John

On 11/4/10 4:48 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
Even if it's really good glue? Even if Festool made glue and had a
Festool Psycron glue dispenser with metric gap filling settings?

R

You don't need glue with Festool saws.
They leave behind a hook and loop surface that bonds, instantly, when
the joint is put together.

I hear the new L-N glue will allow the various pieces of wood to grow
together seamlessly.

John


That called a graft joint.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 11/4/10 4:48 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
Even if it's really good glue? Even if Festool made glue and had a
Festool Psycron glue dispenser with metric gap filling settings?

R

You don't need glue with Festool saws.
They leave behind a hook and loop surface that bonds, instantly, when
the joint is put together.

I hear the new L-N glue will allow the various pieces of wood to grow
together seamlessly.

John


That called a graft joint.


The glue reactivates the DNA so it grows until there is 25 lbs / sq inch of
pressure.

Who woulda thought...

John

John Grossbohlin wrote:

I hear the new L-N glue will allow the various pieces of wood to grow
together seamlessly.

John


Just add water?

Bill

On 11/4/2010 5:32 PM, Bill wrote:
John Grossbohlin wrote:

I hear the new L-N glue will allow the various pieces of wood to grow
together seamlessly.

John


Just add water?

No, it has to the natural byproduct of Shiner Beer, applied naturally ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 11/4/2010 4:46 PM, Larry W wrote:
In ,
wrote:
On Nov 4, 5:32 pm, (Larry W) wrote:
wrote:

Need and price are most certainly relative to the person that is going to
use the tool. When you get down to it, few of us need more than a pocket
knife to build our projects, but it sure is nice and convenient to have
those additional tools on hand.

Well of course it really comes down to opinion and individual preference
in this instance. For my own needs and preferences, I stand by my
statement of opinion that the Kerfmaker is an unnecessary, exorbitantly
priced, and overrated tool. I'll stick with the old method, accurate,
tried and true in my experience, and described in the past on the rec,
of cutting any old piece of scrap as a guide. YMMV and your opinion
may be different. That's what makes the world and usenet go round.

It's so much quicker to have firm opinions on tools you've never
used. And cheaper.

R

Indeed it is, I must admit when I first saw the B&D adjustable wrench with
a battery powered motor to do the adjusting, I reached a similar opinion
even more quickly. On the other hand, I really like my old Delta cast iron
tenoning jig, and there are plenty here on the rec that will tell me I'm a
fool for having one.

Wanna sell it? I have a more modern Delta tenoning jig and it's great (WHO
says a tenoning jig isn't as useful as a pocket on a shirt?) but if you have
the one I think you do then I'm jealous.

--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On Nov 4, 6:51*pm, Swingman wrote:
On 11/4/2010 5:32 PM, Bill wrote:

John Grossbohlin wrote:

I hear the new L-N glue will allow the various pieces of wood to grow
together seamlessly.

John

Just add water?

No, it has to the natural byproduct of Shiner Beer, applied naturally ...

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Lew will insist on Gougeon Bros Single Malt with micro balloons.

On 11/4/2010 4:34 PM, RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 4, 5:32 pm, (Larry W) wrote:
wrote:

Need and price are most certainly relative to the person that is going to
use the tool. When you get down to it, few of us need more than a pocket
knife to build our projects, but it sure is nice and convenient to have
those additional tools on hand.

Well of course it really comes down to opinion and individual preference
in this instance. For my own needs and preferences, I stand by my
statement of opinion that the Kerfmaker is an unnecessary, exorbitantly
priced, and overrated tool. I'll stick with the old method, accurate,
tried and true in my experience, and described in the past on the rec,
of cutting any old piece of scrap as a guide. YMMV and your opinion
may be different. That's what makes the world and usenet go round.

It's so much quicker to have firm opinions on tools you've never
used. And cheaper.

I recall a similar recent conversation about the Grr-Ripper.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 11/4/2010 5:51 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 11/4/2010 5:32 PM, Bill wrote:
John Grossbohlin wrote:

I hear the new L-N glue will allow the various pieces of wood to grow
together seamlessly.

John


Just add water?

No, it has to the natural byproduct of Shiner Beer, applied naturally ...

Did somebody mention Shiner? Hot dang, I'm off to the fridge... :-)

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

In article ,
Steve Turner wrote:
On 11/4/2010 4:46 PM, Larry W wrote:
In ,
wrote:
On Nov 4, 5:32 pm, (Larry W) wrote:
wrote:

Need and price are most certainly relative to the person that is going to
use the tool. When you get down to it, few of us need more than a pocket
knife to build our projects, but it sure is nice and convenient to have
those additional tools on hand.

Well of course it really comes down to opinion and individual preference
in this instance. For my own needs and preferences, I stand by my
statement of opinion that the Kerfmaker is an unnecessary, exorbitantly
priced, and overrated tool. I'll stick with the old method, accurate,
tried and true in my experience, and described in the past on the rec,
of cutting any old piece of scrap as a guide. YMMV and your opinion
may be different. That's what makes the world and usenet go round.

It's so much quicker to have firm opinions on tools you've never
used. And cheaper.

R

Indeed it is, I must admit when I first saw the B&D adjustable wrench with
a battery powered motor to do the adjusting, I reached a similar opinion
even more quickly. On the other hand, I really like my old Delta cast iron
tenoning jig, and there are plenty here on the rec that will tell me I'm a
fool for having one.

Wanna sell it? I have a more modern Delta tenoning jig and it's great (WHO
says a tenoning jig isn't as useful as a pocket on a shirt?) but if you have
the one I think you do then I'm jealous.
...snipped...

We probably have the same one, mine isn't _that_ old. It's a 34-183.
About the same as the current 34-184:
http://www.amazon.com/DELTA-34-184-U...8917308&sr=8-1

I've seen the older model you're probably thinking of, I don't know if I
could even lift it! The 1172 model:
http://www.owwm.com/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=5457

--
Make it as simple as possible, but no simpler.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On 11/4/2010 7:40 PM, Larry W wrote:
In ,
Steve wrote:
On 11/4/2010 4:46 PM, Larry W wrote:
Indeed it is, I must admit when I first saw the B&D adjustable wrench with
a battery powered motor to do the adjusting, I reached a similar opinion
even more quickly. On the other hand, I really like my old Delta cast iron
tenoning jig, and there are plenty here on the rec that will tell me I'm a
fool for having one.

Wanna sell it? I have a more modern Delta tenoning jig and it's great (WHO
says a tenoning jig isn't as useful as a pocket on a shirt?) but if you have
the one I think you do then I'm jealous.
...snipped...

We probably have the same one, mine isn't _that_ old. It's a 34-183.

Yes, we do. Mine is also the 34-183. I've use mine a LOT, and it's a very
useful tool.

I've seen the older model you're probably thinking of, I don't know if I
could even lift it! The 1172 model:
http://www.owwm.com/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=5457

Yes, that's the one I was thinking of, or at least some variation thereof. No
doubt our modern versions have more features and are probably more useful, but
I'd still like to have one of those old jobbies if I could find one.

--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

GarageWoodworks wrote:
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BExGi9HbLSM

: Neat demonstration of the need for woodworking accuracy.

How much is that piece of wood going to contract and expand across its width
with humidity (and temperature) changes?

I don't have Hoadley's book, but I vaguely recall when I built a bookcase with both maple
and sycamore, looking up the rates of expansion (to make sure they matched), and it
was something like 1/8 or 1/4" across the depth of the bookcase. That gives something like .006"
per inch, a bigger gap than any of the loose joints the BCTW video shows.

-- Andy Barss