The proper answer is 'buy or borrow a table saw with a dado blade'.

However, I don't want to.

I want to use my plunge router to place a 3-1/2" square lap joint
about 3/4" deep on the ends of several pressure treated 2x4s.
I will don a respirator first, no worries.

I've designed an machined jig to allow me to do
this but I want to know how you pro's would approach this
challenge before I search my junk pile for parts.

My Google-fu was not up to the challenge. Instead, it revealed
some table saw adapters.

My band saw refuses to cut anywhere near straight so that's out.

First prize answer would be an inexpensive jig I could pick up
at my local hardware store.

What would SuperWoodworker do?

Thanks!

--Winston


--

Harley was venal, arrogant, despicable and a psychologist.
He was the second most redundant man I ever talked to.

On 4/26/2010 9:09 AM, Winston wrote:
The proper answer is 'buy or borrow a table saw with a dado blade'.

However, I don't want to.

Typically what would be done on site by an experienced framing crew
would be a circular saw to make multiple, close together shoulder cuts
at the proper depth, and a chisel to finish chopping the residue of
these cuts out.

Just one of many options ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 4/26/2010 7:27 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 4/26/2010 9:09 AM, Winston wrote:
The proper answer is 'buy or borrow a table saw with a dado blade'.

However, I don't want to.

Typically what would be done on site by an experienced framing crew
would be a circular saw to make multiple, close together shoulder cuts
at the proper depth, and a chisel to finish chopping the residue of
these cuts out.

Just one of many options ...


I will give that a try.

Thanks!


--Winston

The proper answer is 'buy or borrow a table saw with a dado blade'.

It would be difficult to safely cut a lap joint on the end of an 8 foot 2x4
using a table saw with a dado blade. Far too easy for the long board to
shift while cutting. Maybe with a proper jig, but I wouldn't try it.

I want to use my plunge router to place a 3-1/2" square lap joint
about 3/4" deep on the ends of several pressure treated 2x4s.
I will don a respirator first, no worries.

A router would work fine, and it sounds like you're alerady set up for the
task.

I don't know what kind of precision you need, but for rough carpentry I
usually "dado" using my circular saw. For instance, if I want to "let-in"
a 1x4 diagonal brace in a stud wall. Just mark the outside edges where you
need to cut, then set your circular saw to the proper depth (3/4" in your
case). Make a cut on each cut line, then a series of cuts in between. For
construction work I usually just use the claw of my hammer to knock out the
thin strips and clean up the joint. If you need a finer joint, you sould
clean it up with a chisel.

Of course, it might be just as easy to make the cut with a handsaw. With a
sharp saw, it shouldn't take more than a few minutes to cut a half lap
joint.

Take care,

Anthony

On 4/26/2010 10:09 AM, Winston wrote:
The proper answer is 'buy or borrow a table saw with a dado blade'.

However, I don't want to.

I want to use my plunge router to place a 3-1/2" square lap joint
about 3/4" deep on the ends of several pressure treated 2x4s.
I will don a respirator first, no worries.

I've designed an machined jig to allow me to do
this but I want to know how you pro's would approach this
challenge before I search my junk pile for parts.

My Google-fu was not up to the challenge. Instead, it revealed
some table saw adapters.

My band saw refuses to cut anywhere near straight so that's out.

First prize answer would be an inexpensive jig I could pick up
at my local hardware store.

What would SuperWoodworker do?

Thanks!

Machined jig?!?!?!?!

Clamp the 2x4s side by side. Clamp a scrap across them an appropriate
distance from the cut line as a fence. Clamp another 2x4 crosswise
along the ends for the router to ride on at the ends of the cut. Route
until done.

If this is difficult for you to set up you don't have enough clamps or
don't have the right kind of clamps. And nobody _ever_ has enough
clamps so go get some clamps if you need to.




--Winston

On Apr 26, 10:09*am, Winston wrote:
The proper answer is 'buy or borrow a table saw with a dado blade'.

However, I don't want to.

I want to use my plunge router to place a 3-1/2" square lap joint
about 3/4" deep on the ends of several pressure treated 2x4s.
I will don a respirator first, no worries.

I've designed an machined jig to allow me to do
this but I want to know how you pro's would approach this
challenge before I search my junk pile for parts.

My Google-fu was not up to the challenge. *Instead, it revealed
some table saw adapters.

My band saw refuses to cut anywhere near straight so that's out.

First prize answer would be an inexpensive jig I could pick up
at my local hardware store.

What would SuperWoodworker do?

Thanks!

--Winston

--

Harley was venal, arrogant, despicable and a psychologist.
He was the second most redundant man I ever talked to.

It seems to me that a fairly simple jig, based on the size of your
router base would make short work of this project.

I recently had to cut a number 3 1/2" x 1/2" deep recessed areas in
the middle of some boards and a simple frame made of 1 x 2 stock
clamped to the boards made quick work of them.

All you need is a square frame sized so that the router can only move
enough to cut a 3 1/2" square and a way to mount the jig on top of a 2
x 4.

How about this:

Size up and build the square frame and set it aside.

Take some scrap 2 X material and make a "U" shaped jig so that your 2
x 4's can slip into the "U", essentially giving you a "flat board"
just like I had. This will support your router as you rout the 2 x 4.

Mount the frame on top of this "U", positioned so the center of the
area you need to cut out is in the center of the frame.

Slip a 2 x 4 under the frame into the "U" and rout out your lap joint.
You can oversize the frame to allow the router to clean all of the
material from the end of the 2 x 4 and then just clean up the other
end of the joint with a chisel.

I don't know how this will come out, but I'll try a little ASCII
art...

The Frame:

|-------------------|
| |
| |
| |
| |
|-------------------|

The "U" (=) with 2 x 4 (x) inserted, obviouslY not to scale.

======================
=O==========O======O==
======================
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx =========
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ======O===
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx==========
======================
=O==========O======O==
======================

Center the Frame over the "U", screw it where indicated (O) and rout
to your heart's content.

On 4/26/2010 8:04 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


It seems to me that a fairly simple jig, based on the size of your
router base would make short work of this project.


(...)

Center the Frame over the "U", screw it where indicated (O) and rout
to your heart's content.

Two Great Minds, DerbyDad!

That is almost exactly what my machined jig looks like!

If I can't make any headway using J. Clarke's suggestion,
I'll go ahead and hog one of these out of some scrap aluminum.


Thanks!

--Winston


--

Harley was venal, arrogant, despicable and a psychologist.
He was the second most redundant man I ever talked to.

On Apr 26, 1:07*pm, Winston wrote:
On 4/26/2010 8:04 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:



It seems to me that a fairly simple jig, based on the size of your
router base would make short work of this project.

(...)

Center the Frame over the "U", screw it where indicated (O) and rout
to your heart's content.

Two Great Minds, DerbyDad!

That is almost exactly what my machined jig looks like!

If I can't make any headway using J. Clarke's suggestion,
I'll go ahead and hog one of these out of some scrap aluminum.

Thanks!

--Winston

--

Harley was venal, arrogant, despicable and a psychologist.
He was the second most redundant man I ever talked to.

I'll go ahead and hog one of these out of some scrap aluminum.


What? Why are you using aluminum?

Grab some scrap wood and drywall screws and throw this thing together
in 10 minutes.

On 4/26/2010 10:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
(...)


What? Why are you using aluminum?

Grab some scrap wood and drywall screws and throw this thing together
in 10 minutes.

My mill can cut aluminum straighter than I can cut scrap.



--Winston

On Apr 26, 4:07*pm, Winston wrote:
On 4/26/2010 10:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
(...)



What? Why are you using aluminum?

Grab some scrap wood and drywall screws and throw this thing together
in 10 minutes.

My mill can cut aluminum straighter than I can cut scrap.



--Winston

You shouldn't really have to cut anything "straight".

The 2 x 4's for the base are already cut straight, you just have to
cut them to length.

The same goes for anything that you'll be using for the upper frame.
Any kind of scraps that can be laid out in a square will work,
including more 2 x 4's.

I really believe that you are over thinking this fairly simple
project.

In article ,
Winston wrote:
The proper answer is 'buy or borrow a table saw with a dado blade'.

However, I don't want to.

I want to use my plunge router to place a 3-1/2" square lap joint
about 3/4" deep on the ends of several pressure treated 2x4s.
I will don a respirator first, no worries.

I've designed an machined jig to allow me to do
this but I want to know how you pro's would approach this
challenge before I search my junk pile for parts.

My Google-fu was not up to the challenge. Instead, it revealed
some table saw adapters.

My band saw refuses to cut anywhere near straight so that's out.

First prize answer would be an inexpensive jig I could pick up
at my local hardware store.

What would SuperWoodworker do?

Skilsaw (or equivalent), cut across the 2x4 at the proper distance from
the end, then use the Neander approach -- wide wood chisel and a hammer
to 'split' in from the end.

*WAY* less dust than the router will throw up.

Of course, you've got to be able to chisel a flat surface. for the lap.

To reduce the effort of Neandering, do a -series- of parallel custs with
the Skilsaw, then break the 'fingers' off, and clean up with the chisel.

On 4/26/2010 1:48 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
In ,
wrote:

(...)


What would SuperWoodworker do?

Skilsaw (or equivalent), cut across the 2x4 at the proper distance from
the end, then use the Neander approach -- wide wood chisel and a hammer
to 'split' in from the end.

*WAY* less dust than the router will throw up.

Of course, you've got to be able to chisel a flat surface. for the lap.

Yes. Please see my forth sentence.

To reduce the effort of Neandering, do a -series- of parallel custs with
the Skilsaw, then break the 'fingers' off, and clean up with the chisel.

Hi, Robert.

I may revisit this approach, particularly if I can find a circular
saw blade with a very wide kerf (1/4" or wider?).
My first attempt failed because I left way too much room between cuts,
as mentioned by other groupers.

My chisel-fu is not going to be up to your standard, so it may pay
me to continue to let the router create the flat surfaces I require.
That will be sufficient for the few pieces I need.

Thanks!

--Winston

--

Harley was venal, arrogant, despicable and a psychologist.
He was the second most redundant man I ever talked to.

In article ,
Winston wrote:
On 4/26/2010 1:48 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
In ,
wrote:

(...)


What would SuperWoodworker do?

Skilsaw (or equivalent), cut across the 2x4 at the proper distance from
the end, then use the Neander approach -- wide wood chisel and a hammer
to 'split' in from the end.

*WAY* less dust than the router will throw up.

Of course, you've got to be able to chisel a flat surface. for the lap.

Yes. Please see my forth sentence.

To reduce the effort of Neandering, do a -series- of parallel custs with
the Skilsaw, then break the 'fingers' off, and clean up with the chisel.

Hi, Robert.

I may revisit this approach, particularly if I can find a circular
saw blade with a very wide kerf (1/4" or wider?).

I suppose you could put two blades on the saw. *grin*
an actual dado set, "wobble" or otherwise, is definitely not a good idea,


My first attempt failed because I left way too much room between cuts,
as mentioned by other groupers.

BTW, there's nothing that says you have to leave _any_ space between the
cuts -- you can take it all off with the saw blade. "Break it off, and
clean up with a chisel and/or rasp" just tends to be easier/faster,
particularly, when you're going 'along' the grain.

My chisel-fu is not going to be up to your standard, so it may pay
me to continue to let the router create the flat surfaces I require.

I'll merely point out that you don't _need_ "flat" surfaces, just that
the two surfaces to be joined 'match". This -is- easier to do, with a
bit of 'lay them to together and see where they bind'.

I'm not disparaging the way you're currently doing it -- if it works _for_you_
that's all that matters. grin

When the opportunity presents itself, it is always worthwhile experimenting
with alternative approaches -- who knows, one of them *may* fit you better
than the way you have been doing it. Of course, it may not, but you're never
going to know until you try it.

One other alternative to consider, *IF* you've got the space to stand the 2x4
_on_end_, and support it stably, is to use a "back saw" (hand saw with a
reinforced spine on the blade) to cut down the middle of the 2x4s, and then
lay them down and cut off one of the 'sides', either with the back saw, or
a power saw. This +does+ call for some skill with the back saw, to hold it
vertical as you get the cut started.

On 4/26/2010 6:14 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
In ,
wrote:
On 4/26/2010 1:48 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
In ,
wrote:

(...)


What would SuperWoodworker do?

Skilsaw (or equivalent), cut across the 2x4 at the proper distance from
the end, then use the Neander approach -- wide wood chisel and a hammer
to 'split' in from the end.

*WAY* less dust than the router will throw up.

Of course, you've got to be able to chisel a flat surface. for the lap.

Yes. Please see my forth sentence.

To reduce the effort of Neandering, do a -series- of parallel custs with
the Skilsaw, then break the 'fingers' off, and clean up with the chisel.

Hi, Robert.

I may revisit this approach, particularly if I can find a circular
saw blade with a very wide kerf (1/4" or wider?).

I suppose you could put two blades on the saw. *grin*
an actual dado set, "wobble" or otherwise, is definitely not a good idea,

We agree. 'Power tool racing' is for braver souls than me.

My first attempt failed because I left way too much room between cuts,
as mentioned by other groupers.

BTW, there's nothing that says you have to leave _any_ space between the
cuts -- you can take it all off with the saw blade. "Break it off, and
clean up with a chisel and/or rasp" just tends to be easier/faster,
particularly, when you're going 'along' the grain.

I grok.

My chisel-fu is not going to be up to your standard, so it may pay
me to continue to let the router create the flat surfaces I require.

I'll merely point out that you don't _need_ "flat" surfaces, just that
the two surfaces to be joined 'match". This -is- easier to do, with a
bit of 'lay them to together and see where they bind'.

I was hoping to take advantage of the raw wood in flat contact by
gluing the corner laps together for added rigidity.
Flatter would be better for that use, yes?

I'm not disparaging the way you're currently doing it -- if it works _for_you_
that's all that matters.grin

'Perfect' is the enemy of 'good enough'. I am not building a piano,
I am building a fence gate.

When the opportunity presents itself, it is always worthwhile experimenting
with alternative approaches -- who knows, one of them *may* fit you better
than the way you have been doing it. Of course, it may not, but you're never
going to know until you try it.

I agree.

One other alternative to consider, *IF* you've got the space to stand the 2x4
_on_end_, and support it stably, is to use a "back saw" (hand saw with a
reinforced spine on the blade) to cut down the middle of the 2x4s, and then
lay them down and cut off one of the 'sides', either with the back saw, or
a power saw. This +does+ call for some skill with the back saw, to hold it
vertical as you get the cut started.

I'm not interested in developing the technique necessary to make a proper
cut under these circumstances. That sounds like a lot of work and
frustration. I will let Mr. Router do that for now.

I appreciate your thoughts on this.

Thanks!

--Winston


--

Harley was venal, arrogant, despicable and a psychologist.
He was the second most redundant man I ever talked to.

On 4/26/2010 9:04 PM, Winston wrote:

I was hoping to take advantage of the raw wood in flat contact by
gluing the corner laps together for added rigidity.
Flatter would be better for that use, yes?

Consider a "glue" that can be used with pressure treated wood, and be
aware that a lap joint is one joint, particularly in this application,
that, in addition to being "glued", needs to be either pinned or screwed
together.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 20:14:21 -0500, the infamous
(Robert Bonomi) scrawled the following:

In article ,
Winston wrote:
On 4/26/2010 1:48 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
In ,
wrote:

(...)


What would SuperWoodworker do?

Skilsaw (or equivalent), cut across the 2x4 at the proper distance from
the end, then use the Neander approach -- wide wood chisel and a hammer
to 'split' in from the end.

*WAY* less dust than the router will throw up.

Of course, you've got to be able to chisel a flat surface. for the lap.

Yes. Please see my forth sentence.

To reduce the effort of Neandering, do a -series- of parallel custs with
the Skilsaw, then break the 'fingers' off, and clean up with the chisel.

Hi, Robert.

I may revisit this approach, particularly if I can find a circular
saw blade with a very wide kerf (1/4" or wider?).

I suppose you could put two blades on the saw. *grin*
an actual dado set, "wobble" or otherwise, is definitely not a good idea,

Yeah, and if one's installed backwards, it'll cut well on the return
stroke, huh? chortle


My first attempt failed because I left way too much room between cuts,
as mentioned by other groupers.

BTW, there's nothing that says you have to leave _any_ space between the
cuts -- you can take it all off with the saw blade. "Break it off, and
clean up with a chisel and/or rasp" just tends to be easier/faster,
particularly, when you're going 'along' the grain.

Bbbut, that's awfully tricky to do.


My chisel-fu is not going to be up to your standard, so it may pay
me to continue to let the router create the flat surfaces I require.

I'll merely point out that you don't _need_ "flat" surfaces, just that
the two surfaces to be joined 'match". This -is- easier to do, with a
bit of 'lay them to together and see where they bind'.

Yes you do need flat. Wavy surfaces don't glue-up well. Curved is OK
if they mate, but "fairly flat" is a necessity.


I'm not disparaging the way you're currently doing it -- if it works _for_you_
that's all that matters. grin

When the opportunity presents itself, it is always worthwhile experimenting
with alternative approaches -- who knows, one of them *may* fit you better
than the way you have been doing it. Of course, it may not, but you're never
going to know until you try it.

True, try things until one "fits" your style.


One other alternative to consider, *IF* you've got the space to stand the 2x4
_on_end_, and support it stably, is to use a "back saw" (hand saw with a
reinforced spine on the blade) to cut down the middle of the 2x4s, and then
lay them down and cut off one of the 'sides', either with the back saw, or
a power saw. This +does+ call for some skill with the back saw, to hold it
vertical as you get the cut started.

[One could also set the depth stop in an SCMS (sliding compound miter
saw) and cut them on one of those, Pooh.]

--
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.

On 4/27/2010 6:42 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 20:14:21 -0500, the infamous
(Robert Bonomi) scrawled the following:

In ,
wrote:
On 4/26/2010 1:48 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
In ,
wrote:

(...)


What would SuperWoodworker do?

Skilsaw (or equivalent), cut across the 2x4 at the proper distance from
the end, then use the Neander approach -- wide wood chisel and a hammer
to 'split' in from the end.

*WAY* less dust than the router will throw up.

Of course, you've got to be able to chisel a flat surface. for the lap.

Yes. Please see my forth sentence.

To reduce the effort of Neandering, do a -series- of parallel custs with
the Skilsaw, then break the 'fingers' off, and clean up with the chisel.

Hi, Robert.

I may revisit this approach, particularly if I can find a circular
saw blade with a very wide kerf (1/4" or wider?).

I suppose you could put two blades on the saw. *grin*
an actual dado set, "wobble" or otherwise, is definitely not a good idea,

Yeah, and if one's installed backwards, it'll cut well on the return
stroke, huh?chortle

I will be all set during the 'big crunch'!

My first attempt failed because I left way too much room between cuts,
as mentioned by other groupers.

BTW, there's nothing that says you have to leave _any_ space between the
cuts -- you can take it all off with the saw blade. "Break it off, and
clean up with a chisel and/or rasp" just tends to be easier/faster,
particularly, when you're going 'along' the grain.

Bbbut, that's awfully tricky to do.

Indeed.

One other alternative to consider, *IF* you've got the space to stand the 2x4
_on_end_, and support it stably, is to use a "back saw" (hand saw with a
reinforced spine on the blade) to cut down the middle of the 2x4s, and then
lay them down and cut off one of the 'sides', either with the back saw, or
a power saw. This +does+ call for some skill with the back saw, to hold it
vertical as you get the cut started.

That is all but impossible for me. You should see some of the unintentional
angles I've placed along axes over the years using various saws.
Great for making stakes but I'm fresh out of vampires. Very discouraging.


[One could also set the depth stop in an SCMS (sliding compound miter
saw) and cut them on one of those, Pooh.]

Sometimes I forget to just walk over to the proper machine in my
10k foot^2 wood shop, like you do on your show, Norm.

http://www.klockit.com/itm_img/49597.jpg

But seriously, I'm trying to limit myself to only one new tool per project.

--Winston


--

Harley was venal, arrogant, despicable and a psychologist.
He was the second most redundant man I ever talked to.

Larry Jaques wrote in
:


Yeah, and if one's installed backwards, it'll cut well on the return
stroke, huh? chortle


*snip*

Ever heard of the Omni Dual Saw? Same idea... except I don't know if
they'd ever tried it going backwards.

"Our saw cuts so well backwards, just imagine what it could do forwards!"

:-)

Puckdroper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 20:14:21 -0500, the infamous
(Robert Bonomi) scrawled the following:

Hi, Robert.

I may revisit this approach, particularly if I can find a circular
saw blade with a very wide kerf (1/4" or wider?).

I suppose you could put two blades on the saw. *grin*
an actual dado set, "wobble" or otherwise, is definitely not a good idea,

Yeah, and if one's installed backwards, it'll cut well on the return
stroke, huh? chortle

Awright, wiseacre! You *do* know that somebody actually makes a hand circular
saw with two *counter-rotating* blades on it, don't you?

I'll merely point out that you don't _need_ "flat" surfaces, just that
the two surfaces to be joined 'match". This -is- easier to do, with a
bit of 'lay them to together and see where they bind'.

Yes you do need flat. Wavy surfaces don't glue-up well. Curved is OK
if they mate, but "fairly flat" is a necessity.

No, you do _not_ need flat. Consider a dovetail joint -- no flat surfaces
whatsoever. The _only_ requirement is that they mate up well.

The _easiest_ way to ensure a good mating it to make both surfaces flat,
but it is -not- a requirement.

On Apr 26, 1:48*pm, (Robert Bonomi) wrote:

[on making a half-lap joint on board ends]

Skilsaw (or equivalent), cut across the 2x4 at the proper distance from
the end, then use the Neander approach -- wide wood chisel and a hammer
to 'split' in from the end.

*WAY* less dust than the router will throw up.

Of course, you've got to be able to chisel a flat surface. for the lap.

To reduce the effort of Neandering, do a -series- of parallel custs with
the Skilsaw, then break the 'fingers' off, and clean up with the chisel.

YES! This is the least energy approach, works with the wood grain to
produce the desired shape with simple saw cuts and very quick chisel
work.
A plane or rabbet plane would easily clean up the split face, if
that's
not acceptable straight from the chisel.

The cut or cuts are shallow, and a thin kerf blade is appropriate.
Gang the
boards together and make a Skilsaw (handheld circular saw) kerf on a
half dozen at a time. When those are all done, remove the dust mask.
True neanders will have a miter saw with depth stops, in handheld
back saw style. That will work, too.

On 4/27/2010 10:58 AM, whit3rd wrote:
On Apr 26, 1:48 pm, (Robert Bonomi) wrote:

[on making a half-lap joint on board ends]

Skilsaw (or equivalent), cut across the 2x4 at the proper distance from
the end, then use the Neander approach -- wide wood chisel and a hammer
to 'split' in from the end.

*WAY* less dust than the router will throw up.

Of course, you've got to be able to chisel a flat surface. for the lap.

To reduce the effort of Neandering, do a -series- of parallel custs with
the Skilsaw, then break the 'fingers' off, and clean up with the chisel.

YES! This is the least energy approach, works with the wood grain to
produce the desired shape with simple saw cuts and very quick chisel
work.
A plane or rabbet plane would easily clean up the split face, if
that's
not acceptable straight from the chisel.

The cut or cuts are shallow, and a thin kerf blade is appropriate.
Gang the
boards together and make a Skilsaw (handheld circular saw) kerf on a
half dozen at a time. When those are all done, remove the dust mask.
True neanders will have a miter saw with depth stops, in handheld
back saw style. That will work, too.

Grok that. Thanks!

--Winston



--

Harley was venal, arrogant, despicable and a psychologist.
He was the second most redundant man I ever talked to.

Winston wrote:
The proper answer is 'buy or borrow a table saw with a dado blade'.

However, I don't want to.

I want to use my plunge router to place a 3-1/2" square lap joint
about 3/4" deep on the ends of several pressure treated 2x4s.
(snip)
What would SuperWoodworker do?


SuperWoodworker might double up 1x4s rather than cutting lap joints in
2x4s, depending on the application.

On 4/27/2010 8:06 AM, Mike Paulsen wrote:
Winston wrote:
The proper answer is 'buy or borrow a table saw with a dado blade'.

However, I don't want to.

I want to use my plunge router to place a 3-1/2" square lap joint
about 3/4" deep on the ends of several pressure treated 2x4s.
(snip)
What would SuperWoodworker do?


SuperWoodworker might double up 1x4s rather than cutting lap joints in
2x4s, depending on the application.

Great idea but 2 x 4 was the smallest PT lumber I could find.

As dpb says, grain orientation would prevent the joint from being
structurally sound anyway, so perhaps a steel frame or maybe
some "L" StrongTie joints.

http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/T-L.asp

Thanks for helping the noob, guys.

--Winston



--

Harley was venal, arrogant, despicable and a psychologist.
He was the second most redundant man I ever talked to.

Winston wrote:
On 4/27/2010 8:06 AM, Mike Paulsen wrote:

SuperWoodworker might double up 1x4s rather than cutting lap joints
in 2x4s, depending on the application.

Great idea but 2 x 4 was the smallest PT lumber I could find.

As dpb says, grain orientation would prevent the joint from being
structurally sound anyway, so perhaps a steel frame or maybe
some "L" StrongTie joints.


Just be careful how far you take principles. Sure - a cross grain joint is
inherently inferior to a joint where the grain runs in the same direction -
but will you ever notice that? For centuries, cross grain joints have been
in use and have served very well. You can take the theory too far and get
all caught up in what you should not do. Net result - analysis paralysis.
You'll never build anything. The governing factor should be whether the
particular joint, or technique is sufficient for the task at hand, not
whether it is the best theoretical approach. A good guiding light is the
preponderance of evidence of eons of time. Ignore all the rest.

--

-Mike-

On Apr 27, 11:42*am, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:
Winston wrote:
On 4/27/2010 8:06 AM, Mike Paulsen wrote:
SuperWoodworker might double up 1x4s rather than cutting lap joints
in 2x4s, depending on the application.

Great idea but 2 x 4 was the smallest PT lumber I could find.

As dpb says, grain orientation would prevent the joint from being
structurally sound anyway, so perhaps a steel frame or maybe
some "L" StrongTie joints.

Just be careful how far you take principles. *Sure - a cross grain joint is
inherently inferior to a joint where the grain runs in the same direction -
but will you ever notice that? *For centuries, cross grain joints have been
in use and have served very well. *You can take the theory too far and get
all caught up in what you should not do. *Net result - analysis paralysis.
You'll never build anything. *The governing factor should be whether the
particular joint, or technique is sufficient for the task at hand, not
whether it is the best theoretical approach. *A good guiding light is the
preponderance of evidence of eons of time. *Ignore all the rest.

--

-Mike-


"You can take the theory too far and get all caught up in what you
should not do. Net result - analysis paralysis."

Well said!

BTDT

On 4/27/2010 8:42 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Winston wrote:
On 4/27/2010 8:06 AM, Mike Paulsen wrote:

SuperWoodworker might double up 1x4s rather than cutting lap joints
in 2x4s, depending on the application.

Great idea but 2 x 4 was the smallest PT lumber I could find.

As dpb says, grain orientation would prevent the joint from being
structurally sound anyway, so perhaps a steel frame or maybe
some "L" StrongTie joints.


Just be careful how far you take principles. Sure - a cross grain joint is
inherently inferior to a joint where the grain runs in the same direction -
but will you ever notice that?

From what you and dadiOH are saying, the glued and screwed cross grain
corner lap joints will be sufficiently strong in a frame for a 4' wide
fence gate.

That's good enough for me, so I will try it out.

For centuries, cross grain joints have been
in use and have served very well. You can take the theory too far and get
all caught up in what you should not do. Net result - analysis paralysis.
You'll never build anything. The governing factor should be whether the
particular joint, or technique is sufficient for the task at hand, not
whether it is the best theoretical approach.A good guiding light is the
preponderance of evidence of eons of time. Ignore all the rest.

OK, Thanks!

--Winston


--

Harley was venal, arrogant, despicable and a psychologist.
He was the second most redundant man I ever talked to.

On 4/27/2010 12:56 PM, Winston wrote:
On 4/27/2010 8:42 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Winston wrote:
On 4/27/2010 8:06 AM, Mike Paulsen wrote:

SuperWoodworker might double up 1x4s rather than cutting lap joints
in 2x4s, depending on the application.

Great idea but 2 x 4 was the smallest PT lumber I could find.

As dpb says, grain orientation would prevent the joint from being
structurally sound anyway, so perhaps a steel frame or maybe
some "L" StrongTie joints.


Just be careful how far you take principles. Sure - a cross grain
joint is
inherently inferior to a joint where the grain runs in the same
direction -
but will you ever notice that?

From what you and dadiOH are saying, the glued and screwed cross grain
corner lap joints will be sufficiently strong in a frame for a 4' wide
fence gate.

That's good enough for me, so I will try it out.

For centuries, cross grain joints have been
in use and have served very well. You can take the theory too far and get
all caught up in what you should not do. Net result - analysis paralysis.
You'll never build anything. The governing factor should be whether the
particular joint, or technique is sufficient for the task at hand, not
whether it is the best theoretical approach.A good guiding light is the
preponderance of evidence of eons of time. Ignore all the rest.

OK, Thanks!

Suggestion--on any gate put in a diagonal brace. This can be a board, a
piece of wire, a threaded rod, or whatever else suits your fancy. With
a diagonal brace it's much much less likely to sag.

Also note that aliphatic resin glues like Titebond, while they are very
strong, tend to creep when subjected to continuous load.

On 4/27/2010 10:42 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

Just be careful how far you take principles. Sure - a cross grain joint is
inherently inferior to a joint where the grain runs in the same direction -
but will you ever notice that? For centuries, cross grain joints have been
in use and have served very well. You can take the theory too far and get
all caught up in what you should not do. Net result - analysis paralysis.
You'll never build anything. The governing factor should be whether the
particular joint, or technique is sufficient for the task at hand, not
whether it is the best theoretical approach. A good guiding light is the
preponderance of evidence of eons of time. Ignore all the rest.

Bingo!!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
On 4/27/2010 10:42 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

Just be careful how far you take principles. Sure - a cross grain joint
is
inherently inferior to a joint where the grain runs in the same
direction -
but will you ever notice that? For centuries, cross grain joints have
been
in use and have served very well. You can take the theory too far and
get
all caught up in what you should not do. Net result - analysis
paralysis.
You'll never build anything. The governing factor should be whether the
particular joint, or technique is sufficient for the task at hand, not
whether it is the best theoretical approach. A good guiding light is the
preponderance of evidence of eons of time. Ignore all the rest.

Bingo!!


Damnit! I only needed the free-space and I'd have had a Bingo too! Hate it
when that happens...

--

-Mike-

On 4/27/2010 10:06 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 4/27/2010 10:42 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

Just be careful how far you take principles. Sure - a cross grain
joint is
inherently inferior to a joint where the grain runs in the same
direction -
but will you ever notice that? For centuries, cross grain joints have
been
in use and have served very well. You can take the theory too far and get
all caught up in what you should not do. Net result - analysis paralysis.
You'll never build anything. The governing factor should be whether the
particular joint, or technique is sufficient for the task at hand, not
whether it is the best theoretical approach. A good guiding light is the
preponderance of evidence of eons of time. Ignore all the rest.

Bingo!!

Copy that.

--Winston

--

Harley was venal, arrogant, despicable and a psychologist.
He was the second most redundant man I ever talked to.

On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:06:22 -0500, the infamous Mike Paulsen
scrawled the following:

Winston wrote:
The proper answer is 'buy or borrow a table saw with a dado blade'.

However, I don't want to.

I want to use my plunge router to place a 3-1/2" square lap joint
about 3/4" deep on the ends of several pressure treated 2x4s.
(snip)
What would SuperWoodworker do?


SuperWoodworker might double up 1x4s rather than cutting lap joints in
2x4s, depending on the application.

Where'd you find PT one-bys, Mike?

--
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:06:22 -0500, the infamous Mike Paulsen
scrawled the following:

Winston wrote:
The proper answer is 'buy or borrow a table saw with a dado blade'.

However, I don't want to.

I want to use my plunge router to place a 3-1/2" square lap joint
about 3/4" deep on the ends of several pressure treated 2x4s.
(snip)
What would SuperWoodworker do?

SuperWoodworker might double up 1x4s rather than cutting lap joints in
2x4s, depending on the application.

Where'd you find PT one-bys, Mike?


Minnesota. The local Menards and Home Depot both stock treated 1x4 and 1x6.

On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 00:35:39 -0500, the infamous Mike Paulsen
scrawled the following:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:06:22 -0500, the infamous Mike Paulsen
scrawled the following:

Winston wrote:
The proper answer is 'buy or borrow a table saw with a dado blade'.

However, I don't want to.

I want to use my plunge router to place a 3-1/2" square lap joint
about 3/4" deep on the ends of several pressure treated 2x4s.
(snip)
What would SuperWoodworker do?

SuperWoodworker might double up 1x4s rather than cutting lap joints in
2x4s, depending on the application.

Where'd you find PT one-bys, Mike?


Minnesota. The local Menards and Home Depot both stock treated 1x4 and 1x6.

Amazing. I'd never heard of them before, let alone seen them. In doing
more research on it, I found out that AZQA is used on Doug Fir. I
hadn't thought that species was PTed.

--
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.

What would SuperWoodworker do?

Typically what would be done on site by an experienced framing crew
would be a circular saw to make multiple, close together shoulder cuts
at the proper depth, and a chisel to finish chopping the residue of
these cuts out.

If you have a BS, you could use that too as well. I've done it on a
TS, RAS and (as another mentioned) with a skill saw.

If you are removing 3/4" x 3.5" x 3.5" of wood, the router approach
would be better to clean up the lap after one of the aother approaches
was used to HOG OUT the majority of the lap.

On 4/27/2010 2:07 PM, Hoosierpopi wrote:


What would SuperWoodworker do?

Typically what would be done on site by an experienced framing crew
would be a circular saw to make multiple, close together shoulder cuts
at the proper depth, and a chisel to finish chopping the residue of
these cuts out.

If you have a BS, you could use that too as well. I've done it on a
TS, RAS and (as another mentioned) with a skill saw.

If you are removing 3/4" x 3.5" x 3.5" of wood, the router approach
would be better to clean up the lap after one of the aother approaches
was used to HOG OUT the majority of the lap.

Yup. That is the current plan.
I'm leaving a temporary 1" island on the end of the board to
support the router.

I think it will work just fine.

--Winston -- The noob thanks you.


--

Harley was venal, arrogant, despicable and a psychologist.
He was the second most redundant man I ever talked to.