On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:34:03 +0000, xrongor wrote:

just to ask a couple specific questions.. about where is the price point
for a good new table saw. not the best, not too many bells and whistles,
but one that will last a lifetime with care, with quality parts on the key
pieces, churning out say a house full of furnature. what are the key
features to look for and the pitfalls to avoid? do i really need a 220v
motor?

$500-600 - 120V is OK and it should be convertible


for a 6" jointer with a tilting fence?

$350-400


for a 14" floor standing drill press with decent travel?

$180-220

Add in mobile bases if you're in a garage shop and a 1.5HP Dust collector.

$200-250

--
-Doug

am i the only one who sometimes thinks all this internet information makes
buying decisions harder instead of easer? i hate to do this, but i swear
the more i look, the more confused i become.

its easy to say you need the best, but most of us just dont have an endless
pocketbook. so how do you decide where to enter the market?

just to ask a couple specific questions.. about where is the price point
for a good new table saw. not the best, not too many bells and whistles,
but one that will last a lifetime with care, with quality parts on the key
pieces, churning out say a house full of furnature. what are the key
features to look for and the pitfalls to avoid? do i really need a 220v
motor?

for a 6" jointer with a tilting fence?

for a 14" floor standing drill press with decent travel?

hey at least i didnt just ask 'which is best' g

thx
randy

"xrongor" wrote in message
news:%tO3c.356$bP2.6445@attbi_s53...
am i the only one who sometimes thinks all this internet information makes
buying decisions harder instead of easer? i hate to do this, but i swear
the more i look, the more confused i become.

its easy to say you need the best, but most of us just dont have an
endless
pocketbook. so how do you decide where to enter the market?

just to ask a couple specific questions.. about where is the price point
for a good new table saw. not the best, not too many bells and whistles,
but one that will last a lifetime with care, with quality parts on the key
pieces, churning out say a house full of furnature. what are the key
features to look for and the pitfalls to avoid? do i really need a 220v
motor?

for a 6" jointer with a tilting fence?

for a 14" floor standing drill press with decent travel?

There is no one "right" answer for everyone. There is always going to be a
better tool than we can afford or need. So, what is right for you?

220 volt is always better than 110. I have 220 run to the shop, but have it
split to two 110 circuits. Maybe some day I'll change, but everything
works. Another 110 circuit handles lights and small tools like sanders and
the radio.

Buy the best you can afford. Sure, a Unisaw is great, but not all of us can
afford it or need it. I've used the Unisaw and the equivalent Jet. Great
saws, but when I'm cutting a 1" board or cross cutting a few 3/4 x 3/4"
stock, I cannot tell the difference between them and my Delta contractors
saw.If I was cutting 8/4 maple all day, I'd have the more powerful saw. I'm
a weekend hacker, not a pro. Get a good blade though. $50 to $120 for a 40
tooth combination. My cheap saw had a good blade and performed better with
it.

While I'm very pleased with the performance of my Delta, (about $800) I
would think most of us could use the Jet, Ridgid, Grizzly, Bridgewood,
models in the $500 to $1000 range. Below that you are getting a bit too
chintzy. But I did make some nice stuff on my first $199 Craftsman direct
drive saw. It was just harder to do. I have a 30" fence. The 52" would be
better, but I don't have the room for it. Only twice have I wished I had
the bigger fence. Unless you do a lot of sheet goods, you may never need
it.

My next big buy will be a jointer. I'm pretty well decided it will be a
Bridgewood or York. See www.wilkemachine.com for details. Why them?
Because everything I've read has convinced my they are as good as the Delta
and Jet but will save me a lot of money.

Can't help with the specifics on a drill press. I have a 12" Delta benchtop.
does what I need, but I've seen floor models from Ridgid and Jet that look
good also. The Delta fit my budget at the time and I've not had a need to
upgrade.
HTH
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

a 6" jointer and DP will use 110v motors.

dave

xrongor wrote:

am i the only one who sometimes thinks all this internet information makes
buying decisions harder instead of easer? i hate to do this, but i swear
the more i look, the more confused i become.

its easy to say you need the best, but most of us just dont have an endless
pocketbook. so how do you decide where to enter the market?

just to ask a couple specific questions.. about where is the price point
for a good new table saw. not the best, not too many bells and whistles,
but one that will last a lifetime with care, with quality parts on the key
pieces, churning out say a house full of furnature. what are the key
features to look for and the pitfalls to avoid? do i really need a 220v
motor?

for a 6" jointer with a tilting fence?

for a 14" floor standing drill press with decent travel?

hey at least i didnt just ask 'which is best' g

thx
randy

"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
s.com...
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:34:03 +0000, xrongor wrote:

just to ask a couple specific questions.. about where is the price
point
for a good new table saw. not the best, not too many bells and
whistles,
but one that will last a lifetime with care, with quality parts on the
key
pieces, churning out say a house full of furnature. what are the key
features to look for and the pitfalls to avoid? do i really need a 220v
motor?

$500-600 - 120V is OK and it should be convertible

convertable meaning it can take 120 or 220 single phase? if so thats a good
idea..


for a 6" jointer with a tilting fence?

$350-400


for a 14" floor standing drill press with decent travel?

$180-220

Add in mobile bases if you're in a garage shop and a 1.5HP Dust collector.

$200-250

thats a good reminder about making sure i can roll them around. and ive got
a 5hp peak shop vac that should do it for the dust.

thx!
randy

xrongor writes:

Add in mobile bases if you're in a garage shop and a 1.5HP Dust collector.

$200-250

thats a good reminder about making sure i can roll them around. and ive got
a 5hp peak shop vac that should do it for the dust.


You're goiong to be surprised about that vac. It will be marginal with the
table saw, much more marginal with face jointing on the jointer, and great on
the drill press.

Charlie Self
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
Dwight D. Eisenhower

The work horse of the shop is a table saw, I'm not in a position to say
anything about the different manufacturers in the US. Together with the saw
is the rip fence, I know with my fence (Biesemeyer) that if I take care
setting it it will be within 5 thou.

Presumably, as you talk about a house full of furniture, you will be working
with real wood. In which case I'd pass on the jointer and get a planer. My
reasoning is that I can get as straight a cut on the TS but it takes a lot
of work to hand plane a wide board to dead thickness over the entire
surface. If we were in any other coutry I'd be saying buy a
planer/thicknesser (jointer/planer in USese). Typical planer/thicknessers
are 10 & 12" but I once had a 24" unit. Strange thing is that DeWalt sells
one but not in the US. The other reason is the operator in the lumber yard
isn't always as careful as he should be, also what happens if you want
different thicknesses out of the same plank of wood.

Also before a jointer I'd get an aftermarket sliding table. about $500,
anyone who has ever used one would never go without. It makes it simple to
cut large lumps of lumber you wouldn't even consider otherwise, but the main
advantage is accuracy, everything is square to the limits of my measurements
and the home made fence on mine is again repeatably accurate to within 5
thou, the limitation is setting the cursor.

My few cents.

Bernard R

"xrongor" wrote in message
news:%tO3c.356$bP2.6445@attbi_s53...
am i the only one who sometimes thinks all this internet information makes
buying decisions harder instead of easer? i hate to do this, but i swear
the more i look, the more confused i become.

its easy to say you need the best, but most of us just dont have an
endless
pocketbook. so how do you decide where to enter the market?

just to ask a couple specific questions.. about where is the price point
for a good new table saw. not the best, not too many bells and whistles,
but one that will last a lifetime with care, with quality parts on the key
pieces, churning out say a house full of furnature. what are the key
features to look for and the pitfalls to avoid? do i really need a 220v
motor?

for a 6" jointer with a tilting fence?

for a 14" floor standing drill press with decent travel?

hey at least i didnt just ask 'which is best' g

thx
randy

i dont disagree with you about the planer, but i have decent access to one.
good enough to meet my needs in the near future anyway. its up there on the
list though...

the thing nobody i know has is a good jointer. thats why i think im going
for that one. ill have to look into the sliding table though.. those sure
do sound sweet. as you say, maybe a good slider can cover most of my
jointer needs by allowing better faster tablesaw cuts.

thx
randy


Presumably, as you talk about a house full of furniture, you will be
working
with real wood. In which case I'd pass on the jointer and get a planer.
My
reasoning is that I can get as straight a cut on the TS but it takes a lot
of work to hand plane a wide board to dead thickness over the entire
surface. If we were in any other coutry I'd be saying buy a
planer/thicknesser (jointer/planer in USese). Typical planer/thicknessers
are 10 & 12" but I once had a 24" unit. Strange thing is that DeWalt
sells
one but not in the US. The other reason is the operator in the lumber
yard
isn't always as careful as he should be, also what happens if you want
different thicknesses out of the same plank of wood.

Also before a jointer I'd get an aftermarket sliding table. about $500,
anyone who has ever used one would never go without. It makes it simple
to
cut large lumps of lumber you wouldn't even consider otherwise, but the
main
advantage is accuracy, everything is square to the limits of my
measurements
and the home made fence on mine is again repeatably accurate to within 5
thou, the limitation is setting the cursor.

My few cents.

Bernard R

"xrongor" wrote in message
news:%tO3c.356$bP2.6445@attbi_s53...
am i the only one who sometimes thinks all this internet information
makes
buying decisions harder instead of easer? i hate to do this, but i
swear
the more i look, the more confused i become.

its easy to say you need the best, but most of us just dont have an
endless
pocketbook. so how do you decide where to enter the market?

just to ask a couple specific questions.. about where is the price
point
for a good new table saw. not the best, not too many bells and
whistles,
but one that will last a lifetime with care, with quality parts on the
key
pieces, churning out say a house full of furnature. what are the key
features to look for and the pitfalls to avoid? do i really need a 220v
motor?

for a 6" jointer with a tilting fence?

for a 14" floor standing drill press with decent travel?

hey at least i didnt just ask 'which is best' g

thx
randy

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:23:35 -0600, "Bernard Randall"
wrote:

The work horse of the shop is a table saw,



hey, that's very true in a cabinet shop, but not necessarily true in a
furniture shop. there the band saw is king...

"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
s.com...
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:34:03 +0000, xrongor wrote:

just to ask a couple specific questions.. about where is the price
point
for a good new table saw. not the best, not too many bells and
whistles,
but one that will last a lifetime with care, with quality parts on the
key
pieces, churning out say a house full of furnature. what are the key
features to look for and the pitfalls to avoid? do i really need a 220v
motor?

$500-600 - 120V is OK and it should be convertible


for a 6" jointer with a tilting fence?

$350-400


for a 14" floor standing drill press with decent travel?

$180-220

Add in mobile bases if you're in a garage shop and a 1.5HP Dust collector.

$200-250

where can i get a 1.5hp dust collector and bases for less than 250? i dont
even see any 1.5hp collectors for less than 250 forget about the mobile
bases..

thx
randy

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 04:33:03 GMT, "xrongor"
wrote:


"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
ws.com...
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:34:03 +0000, xrongor wrote:

just to ask a couple specific questions.. about where is the price
point
for a good new table saw. not the best, not too many bells and
whistles,
but one that will last a lifetime with care, with quality parts on the
key
pieces, churning out say a house full of furnature. what are the key
features to look for and the pitfalls to avoid? do i really need a 220v
motor?

$500-600 - 120V is OK and it should be convertible


for a 6" jointer with a tilting fence?

$350-400


for a 14" floor standing drill press with decent travel?

$180-220

Add in mobile bases if you're in a garage shop and a 1.5HP Dust collector.

$200-250

where can i get a 1.5hp dust collector and bases for less than 250? i dont
even see any 1.5hp collectors for less than 250 forget about the mobile
bases..

thx
randy



http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45378

for starters. you might have to get creative about the bases...

"Bridger" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:23:35 -0600, "Bernard Randall"
wrote:

The work horse of the shop is a table saw,



hey, that's very true in a cabinet shop, but not necessarily true in a
furniture shop. there the band saw is king...




That's when you get into the real hairy stuff isn't it, when you have to be
able to read wood and have real hand tools (and know how to use them). :-)

BR

thx for the link. ya stock bases are sure pricy... maybe just for the
table saw.
havent looked at harbor yet. ill have to do that.

thx
randy




http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45378

for starters. you might have to get creative about the bases...

After you buy the tablesaw, get busy making bases. Great thing about doing
it yourself is that:

1) You pay less for the tool initially, as you don't buy closed cabinet
versions.
2) You adjust height and travel of work over or under to your own
specification, effectively gaining shop space.
3) SWMBO sees an instant return on "investment," if you phrase (1) properly.
4) You get the storage space that used to be enclosed dead air under tools
back - to store new tools. See (2).

"xrongor" wrote in message
news:3QS3c.3709$YG.44220@attbi_s01...
thx for the link. ya stock bases are sure pricy... maybe just for the
table saw.
havent looked at harbor yet. ill have to do that.


for starters. you might have to get creative about the bases...

George writes:

fter you buy the tablesaw, get busy making bases. Great thing about doing
it yourself is that:

1) You pay less for the tool initially, as you don't buy closed cabinet
versions.
2) You adjust height and travel of work over or under to your own
specification, effectively gaining shop space.
3) SWMBO sees an instant return on "investment," if you phrase (1) properly.
4) You get the storage space that used to be enclosed dead air under tools
back - to store new tools. See (2).

Great advice. A friend of mine did it that way for many of his tools. The
concept of being able to store other tools under a tablesaw is one that cabinet
saw makers haven't quite figured out yet..simple prefab cabinets could be used,
go together in minutes, cost very little (have to cost very little, because
with the purchase of the saw, the woodworker can make his own quickly and
easily. Of course, that need for low cost may be why none are offered). My
buddy is shorter than I am, so left his table saws at a lower point than I
like, but perfect for him. That adjustment alone is worth the price of
admission, I think.

Charlie Self
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
Dwight D. Eisenhower

xrongor wrote:

convertable meaning it can take 120 or 220 single phase? if so thats a
good idea..

Most contractor's saws come with a 1.5 HP 110/220 motor. You can wire it
either way. If you want more than 1.5 HP, you have to go higher on
amperage than a standard 15A/110V circuit will support. You could still
run such a motor on 110 I guess, with a beefier feeder circuit that could
stand up to more amps, but I'd say that would be an unusual thing to see.
Bigger motors are AFAIK always wired up for 220 only.

thats a good reminder about making sure i can roll them around. and ive
got a 5hp peak shop vac that should do it for the dust.

That's two different cans of worms. The "5 HP" thing is a complete joke,
for starters. Then you can't do real dust collection with a shop vac. You
need low static pressure and big CFM. To do a real dust collection system
you have to spend $2,500 for an industrial sized doohickey and an expensive
custom cyclone doohickie from that guy who posts on here periodically
telling you that you can't do dust collection without spending $2,500 and
you're going to die of emphyzema/lung cancer and/or horrible wood allergies
if you don't.

(My "18 HP" har dee har shop vac mated to a Lee Valley trash can cyclone lid
and cheap shop vac dust collection network is a lot better than nothing,
FWIW.)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

"xrongor" wrote in
news:3_R3c.3082$mM.46502@attbi_s02:

Add in mobile bases if you're in a garage shop and a 1.5HP Dust
collector.

$200-250

where can i get a 1.5hp dust collector and bases for less than 250? i
dont even see any 1.5hp collectors for less than 250 forget about the
mobile bases..


Keep an eye on Grizzley tools http://www.grizzly.com. A month or so ago
they had their 1 HP dust collector on sale for $99.00 or so. They have a
2HP on a mobile stand for $249.00 all the time.

My next big buy will be a jointer. I'm pretty well decided it will be a
Bridgewood or York. See www.wilkemachine.com for details. Why them?
Because everything I've read has convinced my they are as good as the Delta
and Jet but will save me a lot of money.



I've seen posts about Wilke Machine and have been on their website. I
didn't know anything about their reputation. What have you heard? I
wish I investigated them a little better before I bought my Grizzly 6"
Jointer, especially since Wilke is less the 1/2 hour from my house.

Thanks


Chuck

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
My next big buy will be a jointer. I'm pretty well decided it will be a
Bridgewood or York. See www.wilkemachine.com for details. Why them?
Because everything I've read has convinced my they are as good as the Delta
and Jet but will save me a lot of money.

Try http://www.wilkemach.com/ instead

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/

"xrongor" , after much forethought and
consternation, put forth:

the thing nobody i know has is a good jointer. thats why i think im going
for that one. ill have to look into the sliding table though.. those sure
do sound sweet. as you say, maybe a good slider can cover most of my
jointer needs by allowing better faster tablesaw cuts.

That's assuming you're using primarily sheet goods. For (fine)
furniture, you're going to dive into solid wood construction pretty
quickly, in which case a jointer (power or hand) is going to be
central to your production. Gluing-up panels that haven't been
jointed is a pain in the ass, and just generally not ship-shape. I
don't have the space for a jointer, so I use hand planes. I've gotten
reasonably good at it, such that the average woodDorker has to look
pretty hard for glue lines.

This is something I'm currently working on. It's a 9' plank of cherry,
soon to be a mondo fireplace mantel shelf.

http://www.klownhammer.org/progress/glueline.jpg

I like the idea of getting a TS for to make all yer roll-around
cabinets/tool-stands and such (previously mentioned). I remember
doing that for my first (somewhat) major power tool - a Delta 20"
scroll saw.

O'Deen

the thing nobody i know has is a good jointer. thats why i think im
going
for that one. ill have to look into the sliding table though.. those
sure
do sound sweet. as you say, maybe a good slider can cover most of my
jointer needs by allowing better faster tablesaw cuts.

That's assuming you're using primarily sheet goods. For (fine)
furniture, you're going to dive into solid wood construction pretty
quickly, in which case a jointer (power or hand) is going to be
central to your production. Gluing-up panels that haven't been
jointed is a pain in the ass, and just generally not ship-shape. I
don't have the space for a jointer, so I use hand planes. I've gotten
reasonably good at it, such that the average woodDorker has to look
pretty hard for glue lines.

ya and a good jointer can be used for other things too.


This is something I'm currently working on. It's a 9' plank of cherry,
soon to be a mondo fireplace mantel shelf.

http://www.klownhammer.org/progress/glueline.jpg

that link had a 404 error (page not found)
but if you take off the glueline.jpg it brings up a page. looks like you
did a great job!


I like the idea of getting a TS for to make all yer roll-around
cabinets/tool-stands and such (previously mentioned). I remember
doing that for my first (somewhat) major power tool - a Delta 20"
scroll saw.

O'Deen

"WoodChuck34" wrote in message
I've seen posts about Wilke Machine and have been on their website. I
didn't know anything about their reputation. What have you heard? I
wish I investigated them a little better before I bought my Grizzly 6"
Jointer, especially since Wilke is less the 1/2 hour from my house.

I've never heard anything bad about them or their tools. They had a sale on
freight cost last year also making the delivered price very reasonable.

FWIW, every brand has had some problem for someone. I'm sure they are a
minority but anything mechanical can and will break or wear out. Comes down
to features versus cost. Generally the higher price gets you more feature
and hopefully better quality. Not always though.
Ed

"WoodChuck34" wrote in message
om...
My next big buy will be a jointer. I'm pretty well decided it will be a
Bridgewood or York. See www.wilkemachine.com for details. Why them?
Because everything I've read has convinced my they are as good as the
Delta
and Jet but will save me a lot of money.



I've seen posts about Wilke Machine and have been on their website. I
didn't know anything about their reputation. What have you heard? I
wish I investigated them a little better before I bought my Grizzly 6"
Jointer, especially since Wilke is less the 1/2 hour from my house.


I have the Yorkcraft 6" and it's a fine jointer. It is the same jointer as
the Delta 36-195, except the switch is in a different place. The
instructions have the Delta brand name removed in the picture, but not the
big "Professional Jointer" label that goes under it, and they even have the
mounting instructions for the high-mount Delta switch.

Wilke is nice to deal with by all accounts. The only complaint I've ever
heard about them is the cost of shipping. But if you buy at the warehouse,
they'll load it into the back of your truck for you. The downside of going
to the warehouse is that right behind the 6" jointer, they've got the 8".
Then, beyond that, the 12. Then there's the 16....

I know it's only $150, but 14 amps at 110volts won't realistically
give you 2HP of performance. My 2HP DC is 12 amps at 220 volts.

I would be curious as to what size the inlet is on that machine with
the splitter off. The Grizz has a 6 inch outlet under the splitter,
which is perfect for your main trunk. Until you have time/money to
buildout the ductwork, you can leave the splitter cover on and hook
directly to your tools. Definitely a decent start and will blow your
shop vac away.

Joe



http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45378

for starters. you might have to get creative about the bases...

If you can't get decent glue lines straight off a table saw then I feel
somethings off, either the fence or the blade. As a preference I use an
interlocking glue line router bit but in the past also used the TS to cut
slots for plywood tongues, both methods produced perfect results. We're
talking real wood here, 3/4" raised maple panel doors, 7' x 3' x 1 1/2"
iroko (teak sustitute) dining table.

If a jointer is solely being used to joint the edge I would prefer to invest
in a router, table and fence. (I made my own router table and fence, the
latter from 80-20 extrusion I picked up at the local scrap yard @ $2.00/lb.)

Bernard R

"Patrick Olguin" wrote in message
m...
"xrongor" , after much forethought and
consternation, put forth:

the thing nobody i know has is a good jointer. thats why i think im
going
for that one. ill have to look into the sliding table though.. those
sure
do sound sweet. as you say, maybe a good slider can cover most of my
jointer needs by allowing better faster tablesaw cuts.

That's assuming you're using primarily sheet goods. For (fine)
furniture, you're going to dive into solid wood construction pretty
quickly, in which case a jointer (power or hand) is going to be
central to your production. Gluing-up panels that haven't been
jointed is a pain in the ass, and just generally not ship-shape. I
don't have the space for a jointer, so I use hand planes. I've gotten
reasonably good at it, such that the average woodDorker has to look
pretty hard for glue lines.

This is something I'm currently working on. It's a 9' plank of cherry,
soon to be a mondo fireplace mantel shelf.

http://www.klownhammer.org/progress/glueline.jpg

I like the idea of getting a TS for to make all yer roll-around
cabinets/tool-stands and such (previously mentioned). I remember
doing that for my first (somewhat) major power tool - a Delta 20"
scroll saw.

O'Deen

"Bernard Randall" wrote in message ...
If you can't get decent glue lines straight off a table saw then I feel
somethings off, either the fence or the blade.

The something off would be me. A finely tuned TS should routinely be
accurate within 0.004" over a few feet or so. With a finely set
jointer plane, I peel off shavings as thin as 0.0015. I guess I'm a
stickler for ridiculously beyong decent, when it comes to glue lines.

http://www.klownhammer.org/progress/9glueline.jpg

I don't expect others to be this nutty ;-).

O'Deen

Howard wrote:

It's a general thing. I sit here fretting over spending $20 because I
think I might be able to find it for $15. And I *know* that as soon I
break down and spend the $20, I'll immediately find something better &
cheaper.

Or next week the $20 place itself will put the thing on sale for $14.95.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/