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Speaking of home wood-related repairs...
Sort of a woodworking post...
When the choice is given to me to use a nail or a screw, I almost always choose the screw. Only time I choose a nail is when it is a finishing nail and the head is meant to sort of disappear on the application. My logic is that screws don't eventually walk out if there are temperature fluctuations, people walking on the surface, etc. When is a nail a better choice? Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/ Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill V8013-R |
Speaking of home wood-related repairs...
"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message ... Sort of a woodworking post... When the choice is given to me to use a nail or a screw, I almost always choose the screw. Only time I choose a nail is when it is a finishing nail and the head is meant to sort of disappear on the application. My logic is that screws don't eventually walk out if there are temperature fluctuations, people walking on the surface, etc. When is a nail a better choice? One obvious place is when you are constructing something quick and dirty. I have some basic racks Ihave to build into a garage in the next week or so. I have one day. Sooo...., I just bang it together with nails. It ain't pretty. But it is fast. I am going to glue everything though. I figure the extra strength from the glue justifies the small amount of time to apply the glue. |
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I think screws are popular for two reasons.
First, most people can't drive a nail anymore. I have carpenters that work for me from time to time that think their hammers are just adjustment tools. Without airtools, they beat the crap out of material, can't get joints to line up, and it in some cases they simply can't get the job done at all. I am now at an age where many younger "carpenters" have never worked solely with hammer and nails all day for any reason. I always make sure we have pneumatic equipment on the job now, and have for years. Second, with the differences in today's materials screws are an important part of different aspects of construction. They are invaluable in my repairs as I don't vibrate or move things around like I do when driving large nails. Also, when using mdf, crappy plywood, etc., nails simply won't hold. Some mdf is too hard to nail together, and the nails won't hold if you get them in at all. I still use a lot of nails. I use pneumatic and hand nails, and my stuff doesn't fall apart. Just think how many old houses aren't screwed together anywhere, from framing to cabinets and trim, and they are still standing... I cannot explain that to my idiot neighbor. He spend an untold amount of money and time screwing fence boards onto his new fence. He was out there forever, thinking his fence would last as well as The Pyramids if it was screwed together. He had something like $275 bucks in screws, when he could have borrowed my utility nailer and bought a box of ring shanked galvanized nails for $55 and been through in a day. It took him four weekends, working both days to attach with screws. I could only surmise he was just doing it for the fun. Robert |
Speaking of home wood-related repairs...
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Speaking of home wood-related repairs...
On Oct 6, 3:55*pm, "
wrote: I think screws are popular for two reasons. First, most people can't drive a nail anymore. I have carpenters that work for me from time to time that think their hammers are just adjustment tools. *Without airtools, they beat the crap out of material, can't get joints to line up, and it in some cases they simply can't get the job done at all. *I am now at an age where many younger "carpenters" have never worked solely with hammer and nails all day for any reason. *I always make sure we have pneumatic equipment on the job now, and have for years. Second, with the differences in today's materials screws are an important part of different aspects of construction. *They are invaluable in my repairs as I don't vibrate or move things around like I do when driving large nails. *Also, when using mdf, crappy plywood, etc., nails simply won't hold. *Some mdf is too hard to nail together, and the nails won't hold if you get them in at all. I still use a lot of nails. *I use pneumatic and hand nails, and my stuff doesn't fall apart. *Just think how many old houses aren't screwed together anywhere, from framing to cabinets and trim, and they are still standing... I cannot explain that to my idiot neighbor. *He spend an untold amount of money and time screwing fence boards onto his new fence. *He was out there forever, thinking his fence would last as well as The Pyramids if it was screwed together. *He had something like $275 bucks in screws, when he could have borrowed my utility nailer and bought a box of ring shanked galvanized nails for $55 and been through in a day. It took him four weekends, working both days to attach with screws. *I could only surmise he was just doing it for the fun. Robert A good screw costs money. What I like about them is that I get the 'suck' when screwing two boards together. An airnailer just doesn't do that...I find I'm invariably driving those home with an after blow from my trusty 26 oz Estwing. I really do like those nifty self- drilling stainless screws for out-door projects. |
Speaking of home wood-related repairs...
Robatoy wrote:
A good screw costs money. What I like about them is that I get the 'suck' when screwing two boards together. An airnailer just doesn't do that...I find I'm invariably driving those home with an after blow from my trusty 26 oz Estwing. I really do like those nifty self- drilling stainless screws for out-door projects. I still will occasionally use the nail-by-nail technique to get that suck. Hit one nail, pulls the piece in a bit, then hit the other nail... back and forth. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
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On 10/06/2009 11:43 AM, Joe AutoDrill wrote:
Sort of a woodworking post... When the choice is given to me to use a nail or a screw, I almost always choose the screw. When is a nail a better choice? Nails are cheaper. A properly heat-treated screw is about as strong in shear strength as a nail the same size as the shaft, but is stronger in pull-out. There are comparatively few screws that are actually rated and approved for structural applications. Chris |
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wrote in message ... I think screws are popular for two reasons. It took him four weekends, working both days to attach with screws. I could only surmise he was just doing it for the fun. Maybe the only screwing he ever gets to do. Or, he's an engineer of some sort; they typically like to overbuild stuff. Dave in Houston |
Speaking of home wood-related repairs...
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Speaking of home wood-related repairs...
"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message ... Sort of a woodworking post... When the choice is given to me to use a nail or a screw, I almost always choose the screw. Only time I choose a nail is when it is a finishing nail and the head is meant to sort of disappear on the application. My logic is that screws don't eventually walk out if there are temperature fluctuations, people walking on the surface, etc. When is a nail a better choice? When you wear flannel shirts and speak with a Bahston accent. B. |
Speaking of home wood-related repairs...
On Oct 6, 3:27*pm, Steve Turner wrote:
Well I wouldn't want to do what your neighbor did, but I can tell you that ring shank nails in Western Red Cedar fences (that are *everywhere* here in Texas) don't hold forever, probably because of extreme drying and shrinking in the boards. *When that happens, all my repair work is done by pulling out the nails and driving screws in their place. *Works for me. Works for me, too. As far as fences go (odd.... I am replacing about 50 boards on a client's house this week as part of other work) the reason I see most verticals become loose is because they installers used 1 1/2" nails. I have used 2" for years, and no problems yet. *knocks on wood* The repair of a fence is a perfect home for screws. The fence is probably already older, maybe a bit rickety, and not something that will take any kind of vibration from my 22 oz hammer. So screws are the perfect choice. Plus, screws make the homeowners feel really good about having high quality repairs at their home. Screws also work great for deck repairs, and I couldn't imagine a better solution for loose or deformed deck boards. Plenty of places to use screws, no doubt. Robert |
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"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in
: *snip* When is a nail a better choice? Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. When visiting some family, we took a trip out on their boat. The dock had been recently redone, using new material and nails. The only reason we could think of using nails instead of screws was that they figured the dock would rot fairly quickly anyway, and the nails would be easier to get back up. All speculation, of course, but might we have been on the right track? Puckdropper -- "The potential difference between the top and bottom of a tree is the reason why all trees have to be grounded..." -- Bored Borg on rec.woodworking To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm |
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"Chris Friesen" wrote in message el... On 10/06/2009 11:43 AM, Joe AutoDrill wrote: Sort of a woodworking post... When the choice is given to me to use a nail or a screw, I almost always choose the screw. When is a nail a better choice? Nails are cheaper. A properly heat-treated screw is about as strong in shear strength as a nail the same size as the shaft, but is stronger in pull-out. Why a heat treated screw? Nails are dead soft. |
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CW wrote:
A properly heat-treated screw is about as strong in shear strength as a nail the same size as the shaft, but is stronger in pull-out. Why a heat treated screw? Nails are dead soft. Tru dat. A standard framing nail has a shear streangth of something like 16,000lbs. A screw designed for strength (like a cabinet screw, not a drywall screw) is probably a 1/3 that. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
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"PDQ" wrote in message ... I don't know about your "idiot neighbor", but I put in stainless steel screws so they would rot a greatly reduced rate and, maybe, be reused when the boards rotted. Other than this 1 item, I concur. Everywhere one looks one sees the next generation knowing less about manual labour and more about ?????????? P D Q My experience is that replacing a fence is enough work with out having to save and reuse any parts. I get about 20 years out of galvanized nails in a fence application and typically the rest of the fence is about ready to go also. |
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"Steve Turner" wrote in message ... wrote: I cannot explain that to my idiot neighbor. He spend an untold amount Well I wouldn't want to do what your neighbor did, but I can tell you that ring shank nails in Western Red Cedar fences (that are *everywhere* here in Texas) don't hold forever, probably because of extreme drying and shrinking in the boards. When that happens, all my repair work is done by pulling out the nails and driving screws in their place. Works for me. Cant say that I agree. I have probably replaced 15-20 fences and the nails are still holding well enough that we cut the rails from the posts and carry the section to the trailer. Typically the boards rot out on the bottom and begin sagging. I see galvanized nails lasting a good 20 years. |
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On Oct 6, 9:43*pm, "Leon" wrote:
My experience is that replacing a fence is enough work with out having to save and reuse any parts. * *I get about 20 years out of galvanized nails in a fence application and typically the rest of the fence is about ready to go also. BINGO! I couldn't agree more. I can't imagine taking a fence apart to save some old screws. I am tight, but not that tight. Right on the spot as usual, Leon. Robert |
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I was given a 50lb. box of dry wall screws by my buddy. So I screw
everything .. Jerry http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutc...oodWorkingPage http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutcher/1974RuppCentair |
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"Jerry - OHIO" wrote: I was given a 50lb. box of dry wall screws by my buddy. So I screw everything .. We won't go thereG. Lew |
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Speaking of home wood-related repairs...
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Speaking of home wood-related repairs...
wrote in message ... On Oct 6, 9:43 pm, "Leon" wrote: My experience is that replacing a fence is enough work with out having to save and reuse any parts. I get about 20 years out of galvanized nails in a fence application and typically the rest of the fence is about ready to go also. BINGO! I couldn't agree more. I can't imagine taking a fence apart to save some old screws. I am tight, but not that tight. Right on the spot as usual, Leon. Robert It is my understanding that, in the pioneering days, people would take apart whole houses when they moved to save the nails (for the next one)! Bill |
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Bill wrote:
wrote in message ... On Oct 6, 9:43 pm, "Leon" wrote: My experience is that replacing a fence is enough work with out having to save and reuse any parts. I get about 20 years out of galvanized nails in a fence application and typically the rest of the fence is about ready to go also. BINGO! I couldn't agree more. I can't imagine taking a fence apart to save some old screws. I am tight, but not that tight. Right on the spot as usual, Leon. Robert It is my understanding that, in the pioneering days, people would take apart whole houses when they moved to save the nails (for the next one)! Bill Back then each nail had to be hand forged. IIRC, they'd burn the old house down and sift through the ashes. -- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA |
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"Bill" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... On Oct 6, 9:43 pm, "Leon" wrote: My experience is that replacing a fence is enough work with out having to save and reuse any parts. I get about 20 years out of galvanized nails in a fence application and typically the rest of the fence is about ready to go also. BINGO! I couldn't agree more. I can't imagine taking a fence apart to save some old screws. I am tight, but not that tight. Right on the spot as usual, Leon. Robert It is my understanding that, in the pioneering days, people would take apart whole houses when they moved to save the nails (for the next one)! How many of us as kids had the job of straightening the bent nails to be re-used? Dave in Houston |
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"Dave in Houston" wrote How many of us as kids had the job of straightening the bent nails to be re-used? raises hand My grandfather was a great junkman/recycler. I built a couple garages with him. Every nail was bent, recycled and in big buckets. We pullled the nail out, straightened it and drove it into the wood. |
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Dave in Houston wrote:
.... How many of us as kids had the job of straightening the bent nails to be re-used? .... More to the point, how many still _have_ the job? :) I reuse stuff routinely, including structural material and nails, screws, etc., as long as still sound. For one thing, nails 20 years old are far better straightened than most new ones and old finish nails actually have a real dimple for the nail set and a neat, finished round head (instead of A sorry clipped chunk of soft wire w/ a blob mashed onto the end for a head... :( ) -- |
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"Leon" wrote in message ... SNIP My experience is that replacing a fence is enough work with out having to save and reuse any parts. I get about 20 years out of galvanized nails in a fence application and typically the rest of the fence is about ready to go also. Thought about that when I built my deck and only used screws that were guaranteed not to rust, bust, or spring leaks. Not even 10 years into it some boards needed replacing, cedar does not last that long either, the screws were just about a rotted out as the wood. That is why SS Screws in the fence. BTB, all deck replacements are SS as well. SWMBO, decreed that the gates in the fence needed to be lighter. I backed out the screws, cut the wood in half, reinstalled the screws and rehung lighter gates. SWMBO is ecstatic, I have a lot of new Brownie Points and all it cost was some manual labour. Can't beat the cost. P D Q |
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On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 13:43:47 -0400, "Joe AutoDrill"
wrote: Sort of a woodworking post... When the choice is given to me to use a nail or a screw, I almost always choose the screw. Only time I choose a nail is when it is a finishing nail and the head is meant to sort of disappear on the application. My logic is that screws don't eventually walk out if there are temperature fluctuations, people walking on the surface, etc. When is a nail a better choice? I typically use screws, but find nails better for molding. Nails can pop a little, but there are applications where that is not a concern. It is rare that I use a nail/screw for fine furniture, but they have their place too. |
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On Oct 6, 6:47*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
CW wrote: A properly heat-treated screw is about as strong in shear strength as a nail the same size as the shaft, but is stronger in pull-out. Why a heat treated screw? Nails are dead soft. Tru dat. *A standard framing nail has a shear streangth of something like 16,000lbs. A screw designed for strength (like a cabinet screw, not a drywall screw) is probably a 1/3 that. -- * -MIKE- * "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" * * *--Elvin Jones *(1927-2004) * -- *http://mikedrums.com * * ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply Tru dat. A standard framing nail has a shear strength of something like 16,000lbs. First comment; some (many) nails are dead soft but not all nails are dead soft. Huh? Care to take another try? Do you mean the nail material has an allowable shear stress of 16,000 psi (lbs / sq in) ? Because the code allowable shear loading (last time I checked) for a 16d common is somewhere in the 150 lb range so........ your units are off, your concept is wrong or your number is off by 100x. cheers Bob |
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On Oct 6, 10:47*pm, (Jerry - OHIO) wrote:
I was given a 50lb. box of dry wall screws by my buddy. So I screw everything .. Jerry http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutc...oodWorkingPage http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutcher/1974RuppCentair Jerry- Drywall screws are meant to install drywall, that's it. They are not a general purpose fastener, esp not for any kind of serious load. Drywall screws are hard & brittle....they pretty much suck but do work for drywall. Drywall screws have ruined countless redwood or cedar fences. The fence might look ok when you drive away but a few months later the face boards will be streaked with rust. I wonder how many kitchen cabinets installed in the last 15 years with drywall screws will come down in the next big SoCal earthquake. Don't be hack; use drywall screws for drywall. And get some decent screws for general work. cheers Bob |
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fftt wrote:
Huh? Care to take another try? Do you mean the nail material has an allowable shear stress of 16,000 psi (lbs / sq in) ? No. I mean it takes 16,000lbs to shear a nail. Have you seen those tests they do with the giant machines that hold piece of whatever in one jaw while the other jaw pushes or pulls or tears the other end. This shear test has both jaws right next to each other, coplanar, while one jaw moves down, perpendicular to the length of the nail. Because the code allowable shear loading (last time I checked) for a 16d common is somewhere in the 150 lb range I'm guessing that has to do with how much weight is allowed, by code, to be held by a single nail. That has nothing to do with the shear strength limit of the nail. If the two were the same, then every house would collapse before finished. You and I can exert much more than 150lbs with our bare hands. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
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-MIKE- wrote:
fftt wrote: Huh? Care to take another try? Do you mean the nail material has an allowable shear stress of 16,000 psi (lbs / sq in) ? No. I mean it takes 16,000lbs to shear a nail. Have you seen those tests they do with the giant machines that hold piece of whatever in one jaw while the other jaw pushes or pulls or tears the other end. This shear test has both jaws right next to each other, coplanar, while one jaw moves down, perpendicular to the length of the nail. Because the code allowable shear loading (last time I checked) for a 16d common is somewhere in the 150 lb range I'm guessing that has to do with how much weight is allowed, by code, to be held by a single nail. That has nothing to do with the shear strength limit of the nail. If the two were the same, then every house would collapse before finished. You and I can exert much more than 150lbs with our bare hands. A 16d nail has a nominal diameter of .162 inches. That gives an area of about 0.02 inches. To get 16,000 pounds out of that area would require steel that could take a sheer stress of 800,000 psi. This is beyond the range of even exotic ultra high strength steels, let alone the the cheap junk that is typically used in modern nails. For a typical mild steel the shear strength woulde be around 60,000 psi, so multiply that by .02 and you have 1200 pounds. |
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J. Clarke wrote:
-MIKE- wrote: fftt wrote: Huh? Care to take another try? Do you mean the nail material has an allowable shear stress of 16,000 psi (lbs / sq in) ? No. I mean it takes 16,000lbs to shear a nail. Have you seen those tests they do with the giant machines that hold piece of whatever in one jaw while the other jaw pushes or pulls or tears the other end. This shear test has both jaws right next to each other, coplanar, while one jaw moves down, perpendicular to the length of the nail. Because the code allowable shear loading (last time I checked) for a 16d common is somewhere in the 150 lb range I'm guessing that has to do with how much weight is allowed, by code, to be held by a single nail. That has nothing to do with the shear strength limit of the nail. If the two were the same, then every house would collapse before finished. You and I can exert much more than 150lbs with our bare hands. A 16d nail has a nominal diameter of .162 inches. That gives an area of about 0.02 inches. To get 16,000 pounds out of that area would require steel that could take a sheer stress of 800,000 psi. This is beyond the range of even exotic ultra high strength steels, let alone the the cheap junk that is typically used in modern nails. For a typical mild steel the shear strength woulde be around 60,000 psi, so multiply that by .02 and you have 1200 pounds. I don't get what psi has to do with anything. You put half a nail in a clamp, the other half of the clamp moves down with the weight of 8 tons. That is well within many testing machines. They test steel beams and concrete sections way, way, beyond that weight. IN ANY CASE, this irrelevant detail has nothing to do with my original point that a nail is many, many, many, many times stronger that a fu@&!ng screw! forest, trees? hello? anyone home? -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
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On Oct 9, 3:09*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
J. Clarke wrote: A 16d nail has a nominal diameter of .162 inches. *That gives an area of about 0.02 inches. To get 16,000 pounds out of that area would require steel that could take a sheer stress of 800,000 psi. * This is beyond the range of even exotic ultra high strength steels, let alone the the cheap junk that is typically used in modern nails. *For a typical mild steel the shear strength woulde be around 60,000 psi, so multiply that by .02 and you have 1200 pounds. I don't get what psi has to do with anything. You put half a nail in a clamp, the other half of the clamp moves down with the weight of 8 tons. That is well within many testing machines. They test steel beams and concrete sections way, way, beyond that weight. IN ANY CASE, this irrelevant detail has nothing to do with my original point that a nail is many, many, many, many times stronger that a fu@&!ng screw! forest, trees? hello? anyone home? Lighten up, Mike. You're talking about relative strengths, which inherently incorporates the differing material properties. It is not an irrelevant detail to correct an obvious error in shear strength, as this is what we are talking about, and shear strength is figured in PSI, which incorporates the area. It is not a question of whether a testing machine can exert such force, it is a question of whether the item being tested has the material properties to withstand that force. Your point that a common nail is stronger in shear than a drywall screw is not coming under fire. It is the 16,000 lbs thing. Here's a little video for you to back up your point: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/967794...ctio n_screw/ As an aside, the malleability of a framing nail goes a long way to contributing the long term strength, and longevity, of a structure. I'm sure you've seen framing where the pieces have pulled away a bit, the nail has bent a bit, but it is still firmly embedded in the wood pieces. A framing screw has no such give and will be more likely to split the wood when the building inevitably begins to move. There are many reasons to use screws, but there are also reasons not to. R |
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IN ANY CASE, this irrelevant detail has nothing to do with my original
point that a nail is many, many, many, many times stronger that a fu@&!ng screw! forest, trees? hello? anyone home? So... You're saying nails and screws shouldn't be used in forests or trees due to them being ... what? G Seriously though, I got your point about nails being stronger than screws. It has a lot to do with the fact there are grooves in a screw. As a machine builder, I know all to well that the weakest point on a shaft or spindle is almost always where there is an undercut or snap ring groove, etc. You'd be amazed at how often something fails because a machined sharp angle or right angle is there on a steel or aluminum part instead of a machined curve of some sort. Screws have lots of these stress points and thus break more easily. However, they do avoid coming loose with vibration, are more easily used to "suck" parts tight and all that jazz. The strength of nails is way beyond what almost any home engineering job would need. If you don't believe me, drive some small finishing nails deep enough to be 50% in one piece of strong wood and 50% in the other... Maybe use two or three at most. Now try to "sheer" the nails by whatever manual method (toolless) you can think of. I bet they bend and come loose before you break any of them unless you bend them back and forth. The screws will be even harder to break because you won't be able to work them loose by hand in most cases. So... Depending on where you live, what you need the fastener for, etc. determines which to use. Personally, I like doing things the "right way" the first time which means the quality way even if there is some loss or waste. Would I build a farm fence with screws? Probably not. Would I build a deck with nails? Probably not except for maybe the framework - but even then, I'd probably opt for screws here in NJ where we get hot, cold, wet, dry and generally a lot of traffic. Just for grins... Let's assume your screw is similar to a 1/4-20 threaded bolt... That bolt, in the cheapest grade often used has a maximum weight bearing capacity of 2350 lbs. The suggested limit is lower because of vibration and other movement and is generally recognized to be around 200-300 lbs. That means a man my size can hang from a 1/4"-20 bolt all day long and pretty much move around all I want. A 1/2" bolt is approximately 450% stronger on average. Now, let's presume the screw's shank is 1/8" diameter and similar in quality to the Grade 2 bolt... That means that it is probably capable of holding 500 lbs or so with a safety rating of around 40-50 lbs. Given the fact that screws are not machined out of quality materials, I'd divide those numbers by two for the average steel screw. The numbers will be slightly higher for a nail as there are no grooves. This is all based on average quality bolts (Grade 2). Grage 5, Grade 8 and even higher grades for aircraft use, etc. are significantly stronger with a 1/4" bolt sometimes having a weight bearing capacity near 10,000 lbs. Bottom line? Unless you are using big fat "gutter nails" made of steel, you're not going to have a 16,000 lb. shear limit on the average nail. What trees? What forest? Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 01.908.542.0244 Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/ Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill V8013-R |
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RicodJour wrote:
Your point that a common nail is stronger in shear than a drywall screw is not coming under fire. It is the 16,000 lbs thing. I still swear I've seen that number and it surprised the crap out of me, too. I've been looking through some of my textbooks and publications, but don't have any more time to look. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
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-MIKE- wrote:
.... I don't get what psi has to do with anything. Then you don't understand what shear is all about... http://emweb.unl.edu/NEGAHBAN/Em325/13-Shear-stress-in-beams/Shear%20stress%20in%20beams.htm consider the nail to be a small-diameter round beam. You put half a nail in a clamp, the other half of the clamp moves down with the weight of 8 tons. That is well within many testing machines. They test steel beams and concrete sections way, way, beyond that weight. SO??? I don't follow what you're trying to describe, anyway, and sounds like perhaps you're confusing tensile strength w/ shear... IN ANY CASE, this irrelevant detail has nothing to do with my original point that a nail is many, many, many, many times stronger that a fu@&!ng screw! forest, trees? hello? anyone home? How do you reach that astounding conclusion in general? The relative strength of a nail and a screw will depend on their relative sizes and the material of which each is made and has little, if anything, to do w/ the difference between simply being a nail or screw... -- |
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dpb wrote:
IN ANY CASE, this irrelevant detail has nothing to do with my original point that a nail is many, many, many, many times stronger that a fu@&!ng screw! forest, trees? hello? anyone home? How do you reach that astounding conclusion in general? The relative strength of a nail and a screw will depend on their relative sizes and the material of which each is made and has little, if anything, to do w/ the difference between simply being a nail or screw... How? Drive a common 16d nail 2/3 into a 2x4. Do the same with a common screw of the same diameter shaft. Take sledge hammer and swing it directly down on the nail. It will bend. Do the same to the screw. It will "shear" right off. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
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On Oct 9, 3:26*pm, "Joe AutoDrill" wrote:
Seriously though, I got your point about nails being stronger than screws.. It has a lot to do with the fact there are grooves in a screw. More to do with what's done to the steel during manufacture. The drywall screw is hardened and thus brittle. R |
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