There are presently many brush fires burning all over California
including several here in SoCal.

Just to put things in perspective, one of these fires known as the
Station fire has expanded to over 45,000 acres and is threatening
Mount Wilson, home of the observatory as well as the broadcast towers
of every major radio and TV station serving the L/A area.

Two (2) L/A county firefighters have died and literally thousands of
homes are threatened.

The "brush", basically chaparral which depends on fire to repopulate
itself, has not burned in this area for at least 50 years.

Things are a little dicey right now, but the "super scooper" airplanes
(12,000 gallon capacity) are here and will be up at daylight.

Mean while you can smell the fire & smoke from 30-40 miles away.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in
Things are a little dicey right now, but the "super scooper" airplanes
(12,000 gallon capacity) are here and will be up at daylight.

I understand that all firefighting aircraft is old and needs lots of
maintainence. And congress has refused to buy anything for them for many
years. I wonder what is going to haopen if no replacements become available.
It seems that there lots of airplanes in mothballs.

What would it take to get some of them out of storage and fitted for fire
duty? It seems like the situation you describe are perfect justification for
more planes. You can never have enough of them.

Lee Michaels wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in
Things are a little dicey right now, but the "super scooper"
airplanes (12,000 gallon capacity) are here and will be up at
daylight.

I understand that all firefighting aircraft is old and needs lots of
maintainence. And congress has refused to buy anything for them for
many years. I wonder what is going to haopen if no replacements
become available. It seems that there lots of airplanes in mothballs.

What would it take to get some of them out of storage and fitted for
fire duty? It seems like the situation you describe are perfect
justification for more planes. You can never have enough of them.

The Super Scoopers he mentioned are brand new airplanes purpose-made for
firefighting. The trend is toward newly constructed purpose-built aircraft
instead of toward refitting older ones.

Most firefighting aircraft in the US are privately owned--why would the
Congress be "buying anything for them"? That's the responsibility of their
owners.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Lee Michaels wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in
Things are a little dicey right now, but the "super scooper"
airplanes (12,000 gallon capacity) are here and will be up at
daylight.

I understand that all firefighting aircraft is old and needs lots of
maintainence. And congress has refused to buy anything for them for
many years. I wonder what is going to haopen if no replacements
become available. It seems that there lots of airplanes in mothballs.

What would it take to get some of them out of storage and fitted for
fire duty? It seems like the situation you describe are perfect
justification for more planes. You can never have enough of them.

The Super Scoopers he mentioned are brand new airplanes purpose-made for
firefighting. The trend is toward newly constructed purpose-built
aircraft
instead of toward refitting older ones.

Most firefighting aircraft in the US are privately owned--why would the
Congress be "buying anything for them"? That's the responsibility of
their
owners.

I am just quoting an article I read. I know that the smokejumpers have their
own planes. And the crews that maintain those planes also maintains some of
the aircraft that drop the water and retardent.

"Lee Michaels" wrote:

I understand that all firefighting aircraft is old and needs lots of
maintainence.

Aircraft owned and operated by the US Forest service are indeed old
and difficult to maintain; however, these are new planes designed
specifically to fight fires and owned and operated by the private
sector.

They are leased to the State of California on as as needed basis.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:

There are presently many brush fires burning all over California
including several here in SoCal.

Just to put things in perspective, one of these fires known as the
Station fire has expanded to over 45,000 acres and is threatening
Mount Wilson, home of the observatory as well as the broadcast towers
of every major radio and TV station serving the L/A area.

Two (2) L/A county firefighters have died and literally thousands of
homes are threatened.

The "brush", basically chaparral which depends on fire to repopulate
itself, has not burned in this area for at least 50 years.

Things are a little dicey right now, but the "super scooper" airplanes
(12,000 gallon capacity) are here and will be up at daylight.

Mean while you can smell the fire & smoke from 30-40 miles away.

Lew


It sounds like you have a situation there that has plagued a lot of forest
land in the US, poor management. This has allowed a huge amount of
deadfall to accumulate in the US Forest areas and makes for one heck of
firestorm when it lights off.

No burn off of the chapparral in 50 years? This cannot end well, unless God
is very good to you.

Deb

On 2009-08-31, Dr. Deb wrote:

It sounds like you have a situation there that has plagued a lot of forest
land in the US, poor management. This has allowed a huge amount of
deadfall to accumulate in the US Forest areas and makes for one heck of
firestorm when it lights off.

It's a major problem that's taken a hundred years of wrong headed
thinking to create and is not likely to go away anytime soon.

Worse, California was born to burn. It's the natural course of
things. The chaparral is not the only species requiring fire to
propagate. Not only does fire clear the underbrush, but it keeps the
tree density at its natural levels. Most CA forest land is insanely
dense and just waiting to explode. I've seen tree density so bad,
trees were growing almost on top of one another.

No matter. Foolish human beings will continue to build right in among
all that natural fuel and lament their loses when nature take its
course. God has little to do with it.

nb

notbob wrote:
On 2009-08-31, Dr. Deb wrote:

It sounds like you have a situation there that has plagued a lot of
forest land in the US, poor management. This has allowed a huge
amount of deadfall to accumulate in the US Forest areas and makes
for one heck of firestorm when it lights off.

It's a major problem that's taken a hundred years of wrong headed
thinking to create and is not likely to go away anytime soon.

Worse, California was born to burn. It's the natural course of
things. The chaparral is not the only species requiring fire to
propagate. Not only does fire clear the underbrush, but it keeps the
tree density at its natural levels. Most CA forest land is insanely
dense and just waiting to explode. I've seen tree density so bad,
trees were growing almost on top of one another.

No matter. Foolish human beings will continue to build right in among
all that natural fuel and lament their loses when nature take its
course. God has little to do with it.


And even more foolish humans won't allow thinning or, God forbid, controlled
burns in forests.

HeyBub wrote:

notbob wrote:
On 2009-08-31, Dr. Deb wrote:

It sounds like you have a situation there that has plagued a lot of
forest land in the US, poor management. This has allowed a huge
amount of deadfall to accumulate in the US Forest areas and makes
for one heck of firestorm when it lights off.

It's a major problem that's taken a hundred years of wrong headed
thinking to create and is not likely to go away anytime soon.

Worse, California was born to burn. It's the natural course of
things. The chaparral is not the only species requiring fire to
propagate. Not only does fire clear the underbrush, but it keeps the
tree density at its natural levels. Most CA forest land is insanely
dense and just waiting to explode. I've seen tree density so bad,
trees were growing almost on top of one another.

No matter. Foolish human beings will continue to build right in among
all that natural fuel and lament their loses when nature take its
course. God has little to do with it.


And even more foolish humans won't allow thinning or, God forbid,
controlled burns in forests.

I also wonder how much CARBON is being spewed into the air. I'm guessing
Congress will find a way to tax WILDFIRES....... More pollution flying into
the air in one of these fires then all the cars on all the Freeways in
California in a year!

--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

LA taxed to bits because of the CO2 excesses.
Nature turns some of this around in the carbon cycle.

Martin

evodawg wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

notbob wrote:
On 2009-08-31, Dr. Deb wrote:

It sounds like you have a situation there that has plagued a lot of
forest land in the US, poor management. This has allowed a huge
amount of deadfall to accumulate in the US Forest areas and makes
for one heck of firestorm when it lights off.
It's a major problem that's taken a hundred years of wrong headed
thinking to create and is not likely to go away anytime soon.

Worse, California was born to burn. It's the natural course of
things. The chaparral is not the only species requiring fire to
propagate. Not only does fire clear the underbrush, but it keeps the
tree density at its natural levels. Most CA forest land is insanely
dense and just waiting to explode. I've seen tree density so bad,
trees were growing almost on top of one another.

No matter. Foolish human beings will continue to build right in among
all that natural fuel and lament their loses when nature take its
course. God has little to do with it.

And even more foolish humans won't allow thinning or, God forbid,
controlled burns in forests.

I also wonder how much CARBON is being spewed into the air. I'm guessing
Congress will find a way to tax WILDFIRES....... More pollution flying into
the air in one of these fires then all the cars on all the Freeways in
California in a year!

Part of the problem - no forest picking up wood for home
fire places. All fallen wood must rot in place to be natural.

The forests were cleaner because they would have periodic fires.
But with excess in forest mis-management you will have bigger fires
when one comes. Sometimes massive ones due to the underbrush
filling in between tress making a thicket.

Martin

HeyBub wrote:
notbob wrote:
On 2009-08-31, Dr. Deb wrote:

It sounds like you have a situation there that has plagued a lot of
forest land in the US, poor management. This has allowed a huge
amount of deadfall to accumulate in the US Forest areas and makes
for one heck of firestorm when it lights off.
It's a major problem that's taken a hundred years of wrong headed
thinking to create and is not likely to go away anytime soon.

Worse, California was born to burn. It's the natural course of
things. The chaparral is not the only species requiring fire to
propagate. Not only does fire clear the underbrush, but it keeps the
tree density at its natural levels. Most CA forest land is insanely
dense and just waiting to explode. I've seen tree density so bad,
trees were growing almost on top of one another.

No matter. Foolish human beings will continue to build right in among
all that natural fuel and lament their loses when nature take its
course. God has little to do with it.


And even more foolish humans won't allow thinning or, God forbid, controlled
burns in forests.

"Dr. Deb" wrote:

It sounds like you have a situation there that has plagued a lot of
forest
land in the US, poor management. This has allowed a huge amount of
deadfall to accumulate in the US Forest areas and makes for one heck
of
firestorm when it lights off.

No burn off of the chapparral in 50 years? This cannot end well,
unless God
is very good to you.

Much of this terrain is mountainous accessible only to mountain goats.

Nestled among the mountains are canyons full of brush.

Over night the fire has expanded to over 85,000 acres.

Not sure there can be a realistic land management plan.

Lew

On Aug 31, 7:44*am, "Dr. Deb" wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:
There are presently many brush fires burning all over California
including several here in SoCal.

Just to put things in perspective, one of these fires known as the
Station fire has expanded to over 45,000 acres and is threatening
Mount Wilson, home of the observatory as well as the broadcast towers
of every major radio and TV station serving the L/A area.

Two (2) L/A county firefighters have died and literally thousands of
homes are threatened.

The "brush", basically chaparral which depends on fire to repopulate
itself, has not burned in this area for at least 50 years.

Things are a little dicey right now, but the "super scooper" airplanes
(12,000 gallon capacity) are here and will be up at daylight.

Mean while you can smell the fire & smoke from 30-40 miles away.

Lew

It sounds like you have a situation there that has plagued a lot of forest
land in the US, poor management. *This has allowed a huge amount of
deadfall to accumulate in the US Forest areas and makes for one heck of
firestorm when it lights off. *

Yep. Tree-huggers refuse to allow the forests to be harvested and
controlled (brush) burns. Much land is intentionally left "virgin",
or worse, small fires put out before the fuel is expended...

No burn off of the chapparral in 50 years? *This cannot end well, unless God
is very good to you.


....and then they're surprised when nature takes its course.

And sad to say, Gray out Davis sent the big DC10 water bombers
out of state because they cost to much. One could dump large
sections of the fire with a single load.

Times change and I wonder what the rich would say if a fire when
where their homes were. Some wouldn't care.

Martin

wrote:
On Aug 31, 7:44 am, "Dr. Deb" wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:
There are presently many brush fires burning all over California
including several here in SoCal.
Just to put things in perspective, one of these fires known as the
Station fire has expanded to over 45,000 acres and is threatening
Mount Wilson, home of the observatory as well as the broadcast towers
of every major radio and TV station serving the L/A area.
Two (2) L/A county firefighters have died and literally thousands of
homes are threatened.
The "brush", basically chaparral which depends on fire to repopulate
itself, has not burned in this area for at least 50 years.
Things are a little dicey right now, but the "super scooper" airplanes
(12,000 gallon capacity) are here and will be up at daylight.
Mean while you can smell the fire & smoke from 30-40 miles away.
Lew
It sounds like you have a situation there that has plagued a lot of forest
land in the US, poor management. This has allowed a huge amount of
deadfall to accumulate in the US Forest areas and makes for one heck of
firestorm when it lights off.

Yep. Tree-huggers refuse to allow the forests to be harvested and
controlled (brush) burns. Much land is intentionally left "virgin",
or worse, small fires put out before the fuel is expended...

No burn off of the chapparral in 50 years? This cannot end well, unless God
is very good to you.


...and then they're surprised when nature takes its course.

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 06:48:35 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

There are presently many brush fires burning all over California
including several here in SoCal.

Just to put things in perspective, one of these fires known as the
Station fire has expanded to over 45,000 acres and is threatening
Mount Wilson, home of the observatory as well as the broadcast towers
of every major radio and TV station serving the L/A area.

Two (2) L/A county firefighters have died and literally thousands of
homes are threatened.

The "brush", basically chaparral which depends on fire to repopulate
itself, has not burned in this area for at least 50 years.

Things are a little dicey right now, but the "super scooper" airplanes
(12,000 gallon capacity) are here and will be up at daylight.

Mean while you can smell the fire & smoke from 30-40 miles away.

Lew



I look at California fires as an important part of nature. The
burning clears the land, fertilizes it, then allows new plants to
sprout. Fires, earthquakes, and taxes are big in SoCal. Glad I moved
out of LA 20 years ago, more wood varieties available (sometimes for
free) in east TN unless you are looking for redwood. Hope the rain
helps SoCal, though.