There is an article In the latest issue of FWW about "using the grain"
in lumber. I have not read the entire article because it disturbed me.
Most of the time when I buy my lumber I am most concerned with just
getting pieces with minmal defects (sap wood and knots). If I can find
the sticks need that pass my requirements for these defects I am
happy. Finding pieces that meet grain rwquiremwnts that also pass my
defect requirements? Fagettaboutit. I recently bought some cherry
lumber (hardwood store) and I has difficulty finding pieces that had
no sap on both faces.
Enough with these "grain" articles already.

Just venting.

On Jun 7, 1:20*pm, GarageWoodworks
wrote:
There is an article In the latest issue of FWW about "using the grain"
in lumber. I have not read the entire article because it disturbed me.
Most of the time when I buy my lumber I am most concerned with just
getting pieces with minmal defects (sap wood and knots). If I can find
the sticks *need that pass my requirements for these defects I am
happy. Finding pieces that meet grain rwquiremwnts that also pass my
defect requirements? *Fagettaboutit. *I recently bought some cherry
lumber (hardwood store) and I has difficulty finding pieces that had
no sap on both faces.
Enough with these "grain" articles already.

Just venting.

The article is called "Designing with Grain"

GarageWoodworks wrote:
On Jun 7, 1:20 pm, GarageWoodworks
wrote:
There is an article In the latest issue of FWW about "using the grain"
in lumber. I have not read the entire article because it disturbed me.
Most of the time when I buy my lumber I am most concerned with just
getting pieces with minmal defects (sap wood and knots). If I can find
the sticks need that pass my requirements for these defects I am
happy. Finding pieces that meet grain rwquiremwnts that also pass my
defect requirements? Fagettaboutit. I recently bought some cherry
lumber (hardwood store) and I has difficulty finding pieces that had
no sap on both faces.
Enough with these "grain" articles already.

Just venting.

The article is called "Designing with Grain"

But if the grain is wonky then the wood is more apt to crack and
splinter and that can be very bad in some cases, like if you fashioned a
big ol wooden dildo and shoved it up your butt. Do you know how
embarrassing to go to hospital and ask to have splinters pulled out of
your butt hole? And then you get wheeled around naked with your butt
sticking up in the air, the cover it with a sheet but it gets pulled off
every two minutes.

"Beacon of Truth and Light (maybe)" wrote in
message ...
GarageWoodworks wrote:
On Jun 7, 1:20 pm, GarageWoodworks
wrote:
There is an article In the latest issue of FWW about "using the grain"
in lumber. I have not read the entire article because it disturbed me.
Most of the time when I buy my lumber I am most concerned with just
getting pieces with minmal defects (sap wood and knots). If I can find
the sticks need that pass my requirements for these defects I am
happy. Finding pieces that meet grain rwquiremwnts that also pass my
defect requirements? Fagettaboutit. I recently bought some cherry
lumber (hardwood store) and I has difficulty finding pieces that had
no sap on both faces.
Enough with these "grain" articles already.

Just venting.

The article is called "Designing with Grain"

But if the grain is wonky then the wood is more apt to crack and splinter
and that can be very bad in some cases, like if you fashioned a big ol
wooden dildo and shoved it up your butt. Do you know how embarrassing to
go to hospital and ask to have splinters pulled out of your butt hole?
And then you get wheeled around naked with your butt sticking up in the
air, the cover it with a sheet but it gets pulled off every two minutes.

Fake Beacon has a strange taste in topics....

Fake Beacon has a strange taste in topics....- Hide quoted text -


Fake Beacon probably speaks from experience, but that still doesn't
negate the fact of his having strange taste topics... or likely in
anything.

In rec.woodworking "Beacon of Truth and Light (maybe)" wrote:


snip of snot

Guess they have internet access at summer camp now.


-- Andy Barss

"GarageWoodworks" wrote in message
...
There is an article In the latest issue of FWW about "using the grain"
in lumber. I have not read the entire article because it disturbed me.
Most of the time when I buy my lumber I am most concerned with just
getting pieces with minmal defects (sap wood and knots). If I can find
the sticks need that pass my requirements for these defects I am
happy. Finding pieces that meet grain rwquiremwnts that also pass my
defect requirements? Fagettaboutit. I recently bought some cherry
lumber (hardwood store) and I has difficulty finding pieces that had
no sap on both faces.
Enough with these "grain" articles already.

Just venting.

Just think of it as one more thing that takes your projects to the 'next
level'.

Reach enough next levels and your woodworking might reach a whole new
plane.... (I just had to, you realize)

On Jun 7, 2:21*pm, "Joe" wrote:


Reach enough next levels and your woodworking might reach a whole new
plane.... (I just had to, you realize)

ouch

On Jun 7, 2:21*pm, "Joe" wrote:
"GarageWoodworks" wrote in message

...

There is an article In the latest issue of FWW about "using the grain"
in lumber. I have not read the entire article because it disturbed me.
Most of the time when I buy my lumber I am most concerned with just
getting pieces with minmal defects (sap wood and knots). If I can find
the sticks *need that pass my requirements for these defects I am
happy. Finding pieces that meet grain rwquiremwnts that also pass my
defect requirements? *Fagettaboutit. *I recently bought some cherry
lumber (hardwood store) and I has difficulty finding pieces that had
no sap on both faces.
Enough with these "grain" articles already.

Just venting.

Just think of it as one more thing that takes your projects to the 'next
level'.

Reach enough next levels and your woodworking might reach a whole new
plane.... (I just had to, you realize)

I'm sure it would if the lumber required was obtainable.

"GarageWoodworks" wrote in message
...
On Jun 7, 2:21 pm, "Joe" wrote:
"GarageWoodworks" wrote in message

...

There is an article In the latest issue of FWW about "using the grain"
in lumber. I have not read the entire article because it disturbed me.
Most of the time when I buy my lumber I am most concerned with just
getting pieces with minmal defects (sap wood and knots). If I can find
the sticks need that pass my requirements for these defects I am
happy. Finding pieces that meet grain rwquiremwnts that also pass my
defect requirements? Fagettaboutit. I recently bought some cherry
lumber (hardwood store) and I has difficulty finding pieces that had
no sap on both faces.
Enough with these "grain" articles already.

Just venting.

Just think of it as one more thing that takes your projects to the 'next
level'.

Reach enough next levels and your woodworking might reach a whole new
plane.... (I just had to, you realize)

I'm sure it would if the lumber required was obtainable.

gw,

I read the whole article and don't really see where there's any bad
advice/guidance in there.

To be sure, most people aren't buying their lumber in the boule, but that
doesn't mean you can't apply the concepts presented to your project.

Sorry you don't have a better selection where you shop.

jc

I guess you could always work in basswood

On Jun 7, 6:15*pm, "Joe" wrote:
"GarageWoodworks" wrote in message

...
On Jun 7, 2:21 pm, "Joe" wrote:



"GarageWoodworks" wrote in message

...

There is an article In the latest issue of FWW about "using the grain"
in lumber. I have not read the entire article because it disturbed me..
Most of the time when I buy my lumber I am most concerned with just
getting pieces with minmal defects (sap wood and knots). If I can find
the sticks need that pass my requirements for these defects I am
happy. Finding pieces that meet grain rwquiremwnts that also pass my
defect requirements? Fagettaboutit. I recently bought some cherry
lumber (hardwood store) and I has difficulty finding pieces that had
no sap on both faces.
Enough with these "grain" articles already.

Just venting.

Just think of it as one more thing that takes your projects to the 'next
level'.

Reach enough next levels and your woodworking might reach a whole new
plane.... (I just had to, you realize)

I'm sure it would if the lumber required was obtainable.

gw,

I read the whole article and don't really see where there's any bad
advice/guidance in there.

To be sure, most people aren't buying their lumber in the boule, but that
doesn't mean you can't apply the concepts presented to your project.

Sorry you don't have a better selection where you shop.

jc

I guess you could always work in basswood

At every yard I've been to (three), the overwelming objective is to
pick through the sap and the knots until you find adequate lumber.
Shopping for "grain" can not feasibly be entered into the equation.
You get what you get from the piles of sap ridden cherry. Years ago
maybe it wasn't as big a problem with old growth trees (?). That's
not to say I can't make do with what I bring home. I just dont expect
my decision making process to come down to which stick has the best
grain. It's always, which stick has the least amount of sap and can I
make it "work".

"GarageWoodworks" wrote:

At every yard I've been to (three), the overwelming objective is to
pick through the sap and the knots until you find adequate lumber.

You need to find a somebody that is actually a real hardwood lumber
supplier, not a make believe hardwood yard.

Lew

On Jun 7, 2:21 pm, "Joe" wrote:
"GarageWoodworks" wrote in message

...

There is an article In the latest issue of FWW about "using the grain"
in lumber. I have not read the entire article because it disturbed me.
Most of the time when I buy my lumber I am most concerned with just
getting pieces with minmal defects (sap wood and knots). If I can find
the sticks need that pass my requirements for these defects I am
happy. Finding pieces that meet grain rwquiremwnts that also pass my
defect requirements? Fagettaboutit. I recently bought some cherry
lumber (hardwood store) and I has difficulty finding pieces that had
no sap on both faces.
Enough with these "grain" articles already.

Just venting.

Just think of it as one more thing that takes your projects to the 'next
level'.

Reach enough next levels and your woodworking might reach a whole new
plane.... (I just had to, you realize)

I'm sure it would if the lumber required was obtainable.

Think out side the box. Almost any lumber can be made to be beautifully
unique if you resaw it and book match the pieces. Almost 100% of the time
any board can be made into a work of art. To get an idea of what any board
would look like lay a small mirror down beside it at a 90 degree angle. You
will see the book matched image.

"Leon" wrote

Think out side the box. Almost any lumber can be made to be beautifully
unique if you resaw it and book match the pieces. Almost 100% of the time
any board can be made into a work of art. To get an idea of what any
board
would look like lay a small mirror down beside it at a 90 degree angle.
You
will see the book matched image.

I always get in trouble when reading things literally. I got this immediate
image of a peice of furniture. One half of it was done in wood and the
other half....., well...., it was a mirror. I knew that wouldn't work.

Ok, I got it out of my system. I am reasonably certain that is not what Leon
meant. I will try to stay out of trouble for the rest of the day.

"Leon" wrote in message
...

Think out side the box. Almost any lumber can be made to be beautifully
unique if you resaw it and book match the pieces. Almost 100% of the time
any board can be made into a work of art. To get an idea of what any
board
would look like lay a small mirror down beside it at a 90 degree angle.
You
will see the book matched image.


There you go again. :-)

In Houston, Mason's Mill, Clarkes Hardwood, and Houston Hardwood comes to
mind.
I've never been to Texas Kiln, but their web site shows some pretty nice
wood.
M&G in Huntsville also comes to mind.

"Lowell Holmes" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
...

Think out side the box. Almost any lumber can be made to be beautifully
unique if you resaw it and book match the pieces. Almost 100% of the
time
any board can be made into a work of art. To get an idea of what any
board
would look like lay a small mirror down beside it at a 90 degree angle.
You
will see the book matched image.


There you go again. :-)

In Houston, Mason's Mill, Clarkes Hardwood, and Houston Hardwood comes to
mind.

Add Hardwood Products, West Belt, south bound side, south of Hammerly.


I've never been to Texas Kiln, but their web site shows some pretty nice
wood.

I have been there, I would not make a special trip but worth a stop when
going between Houston and austin. Not much variety but lots of nice
Mesquite. I have to buy a piece each time I stop in to look around.


M&G in Huntsville also comes to mind.

Certainly a place to go for a large purchase.

GarageWoodworks wrote:

I'm sure it would if the lumber required was obtainable.

It is obtainable. Whether you're willing to spend the time
to find it and/or pay the price for it . . .

One of the interesting (read "fun") things about doing solid
wood furniture is flipping and turning and sliding boards around
to get the best grain look for panels and table tops, rails and
stiles and so on. If you do it right you get a nice flow of grain
rather than a "well at least I got the most out of the boards
I bought". Sometimes "waste" is mismatched grains and grain
heading in obviously and glaringly different directions,

Lucked out with this one, had very little leftovers after doing
the drawer faces. Those went into the top where the sapwood
next to heartwood were used intentionaly put bands in the top.

http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/D...ssDrawers.html

"charlieb" wrote in message
Lucked out with this one, had very little leftovers after doing
the drawer faces. Those went into the top where the sapwood
next to heartwood were used intentionally put bands in the top.
http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/D...ssDrawers.html

Nice matching. I had a related decision to make when I was cutting the book
matched plywood panels for my entertainment centre. I picked out the best
looking sections of panels for the sides and top of the entertainment centre
(2ea 21" x 60" and 1 ea 21"x 72"). The less handsome pieces when for
interior shelving and dividers. It made for some difficult cuts to get the
best looking pieces where they'd be viewed most often, but that's all part
and parcel of woodworking as far as I'm concerned.

On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:20:14 -0700 (PDT), GarageWoodworks
wrote:

There is an article In the latest issue of FWW about "using the grain"
in lumber. I have not read the entire article because it disturbed me.
Most of the time when I buy my lumber I am most concerned with just
getting pieces with minmal defects (sap wood and knots). If I can find
the sticks need that pass my requirements for these defects I am
happy. Finding pieces that meet grain rwquiremwnts that also pass my
defect requirements? Fagettaboutit. I recently bought some cherry
lumber (hardwood store) and I has difficulty finding pieces that had
no sap on both faces.
Enough with these "grain" articles already.

Just venting.


When I am working on an individual piece that I hope will be
meaningful both to myself and the client (these days, mostly my wife,
myself and my children) I usually begin with the gross parameters,
such as size, shape and function, but this inevitably involves the
recognition of how the grain, color and figure of the piece will come
into play. To design otherwise would be to deprive myself of one (or
two) of the premier elements of a wood object. Taking these into
consideration makes me a painter. Ignoring them makes me a draftsman.

Grain and figure are not entirely the same. I have not read the FWW
article but I would hope that they admired the difference between
grain, which is a structural consideration, and figure, which is an
aesthetic component of a piece.

They inform each other but are not equal.

Grain comes into play mostly in the engineering area of the design. It
informs you as to how to do the joinery. When it becomes a design
component on the visual level, as in QSWO stuff, the line is blurred.

Figure comes in on the visual level in a different way. It talks
about how the piece is viewed as a piece of woodworking art.

This is not an absolute delineation. I am mindful that 'joinery is
the beginning of ornament'. However, in a general sense, once you
have gone beyond the basics of size and shape, it is figure and color
that describe the piece.

There are some craftsmen who begin with the wood. Nakashima might be
considered one, although his ultimate form was also informed by the
grain and figure.

There are others who would make a piece of a given form and look to
grain, color and figure to give it life.

That's where I live. While I am drawing a fairly rectilinear object,
like the desk I am building for my daughter, I am thinking about what
wood, what grain, what color and which figures to use in the piece.
Then I go looking for the wood that fills my eye.

It is a kind of design circle, you see. You may start with the need,
and the room that it will be in goes a long way to determine the size
and shape and color. The use of figure will determine if it is to fit
in, or to stand out.

You might also start with a beautifully figured stick and say to
yourself, "I wonder what I can best make from this?"

I have wood that is waiting to be a jewelry box. I have wood that is
clearly meant to be a chair. I have wood that is useless for joinery
and needs to be turned.

Right now I have a desk to make. Because it does not have to fit into
any particular room, excepting to be small enough to fit in a college
dorm, I get to go crazy on the color and figure. It is a wildcard. It
is a surd. It is a gift.

And you should see the figure and color of the fiddleback cherry.

That I saw in my mind's eye when I was drawing it.

Found the perfect sticks.

Nirvana.









Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

Tom:

In a world heavily trending towards the typically vacuous brevity
of texting and twittering comes - Sir Tom to the rescue, waxing
eloquently on those and that which are precious to him - and
passing on knowledge of, and insights into, wood and woodworking
(as well as life).

But it's the poet in you I appreciate the most. And this post on
grain and figure is filled with ideas beautifully expressed which
should be inscribed in a pieces of wood and placed in every
woodworker's shop as both inspiration - and reminders of why
we play with wood.

Thank you sir, once again.

With your permission, I'd like to share your post with others
over in a WoodCentral woodworking forum.

charlie b

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:25:36 -0800, charlieb
wrote:

Tom:

In a world heavily trending towards the typically vacuous brevity
of texting and twittering comes - Sir Tom to the rescue, waxing
eloquently on those and that which are precious to him - and
passing on knowledge of, and insights into, wood and woodworking
(as well as life).

But it's the poet in you I appreciate the most. And this post on
grain and figure is filled with ideas beautifully expressed which
should be inscribed in a pieces of wood and placed in every
woodworker's shop as both inspiration - and reminders of why
we play with wood.

Thank you sir, once again.

With your permission, I'd like to share your post with others
over in a WoodCentral woodworking forum.

charlie b


Thanks for the kind words. Please feel free to use them however you
wish.




Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

Tom Watson wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:20:14 -0700 (PDT), GarageWoodworks
wrote:

There is an article In the latest issue of FWW about "using the grain"
in lumber. I have not read the entire article because it disturbed me.
Most of the time when I buy my lumber I am most concerned with just
getting pieces with minmal defects (sap wood and knots). If I can find
the sticks need that pass my requirements for these defects I am
happy. Finding pieces that meet grain rwquiremwnts that also pass my
defect requirements? Fagettaboutit. I recently bought some cherry
lumber (hardwood store) and I has difficulty finding pieces that had
no sap on both faces.
Enough with these "grain" articles already.

Just venting.


When I am working on an individual piece that I hope will be
meaningful both to myself and the client (these days, mostly my wife,
myself and my children) I usually begin with the gross parameters,
such as size, shape and function, but this inevitably involves the
recognition of how the grain, color and figure of the piece will come
into play. To design otherwise would be to deprive myself of one (or
two) of the premier elements of a wood object. Taking these into
consideration makes me a painter. Ignoring them makes me a draftsman.

Grain and figure are not entirely the same. I have not read the FWW
article but I would hope that they admired the difference between
grain, which is a structural consideration, and figure, which is an
aesthetic component of a piece.

They inform each other but are not equal.

Grain comes into play mostly in the engineering area of the design. It
informs you as to how to do the joinery. When it becomes a design
component on the visual level, as in QSWO stuff, the line is blurred.

Figure comes in on the visual level in a different way. It talks
about how the piece is viewed as a piece of woodworking art.

This is not an absolute delineation. I am mindful that 'joinery is
the beginning of ornament'. However, in a general sense, once you
have gone beyond the basics of size and shape, it is figure and color
that describe the piece.

There are some craftsmen who begin with the wood. Nakashima might be
considered one, although his ultimate form was also informed by the
grain and figure.

There are others who would make a piece of a given form and look to
grain, color and figure to give it life.

That's where I live. While I am drawing a fairly rectilinear object,
like the desk I am building for my daughter, I am thinking about what
wood, what grain, what color and which figures to use in the piece.
Then I go looking for the wood that fills my eye.

It is a kind of design circle, you see. You may start with the need,
and the room that it will be in goes a long way to determine the size
and shape and color. The use of figure will determine if it is to fit
in, or to stand out.

You might also start with a beautifully figured stick and say to
yourself, "I wonder what I can best make from this?"

I have wood that is waiting to be a jewelry box. I have wood that is
clearly meant to be a chair. I have wood that is useless for joinery
and needs to be turned.

Right now I have a desk to make. Because it does not have to fit into
any particular room, excepting to be small enough to fit in a college
dorm, I get to go crazy on the color and figure. It is a wildcard. It
is a surd. It is a gift.

And you should see the figure and color of the fiddleback cherry.

That I saw in my mind's eye when I was drawing it.

Found the perfect sticks.

Nirvana.

Pure poetry ... thank you, Tom. Made my day!


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Most of the time when I buy my lumber I am most concerned with just
getting pieces with minmal defects (sap wood and knots). If I can find
the sticks *need that pass my requirements for these defects I am
happy. Finding pieces that meet grain rwquiremwnts that also pass my
defect requirements? *Fagettaboutit.

It seems that part of the issue here isn't so much finding good
quality wood with pleasing grain as much as it is finding it at a
price you can afford.

Do you own a planer? Do you have a place to store a fair amount of
lumber?

There is another way to approach obtaining wood with pleasing grain at
an economical price, which is to buy _cheaper_ wood, in a greater
quantity than you need, and then pick through it to get the quality
and grain you want. I don't know about in your area, but near me
there are a number of places that sell roughsawn hardwood, often small
producers with bandsaw mills and the like who make more than they need
for their own use and sell the rest for cheap money. Keeping your eye
on the local ads will often turn up deals along these lines.

It may require changing your project ideas somewhat. For example, if
you can't get cherry where you are, but can find a good deal on pecan,
you could still end up with some very nice looking pieces if you're
willing to work with it. It also helps if you have other woodworking
friends nearby to share out on "...but you have to take it all" deals,
and to serve as aditional sets of eyes in the hunt.
Or if you don't have a sharp time deadline on the piece, and can spend
more time looking for the stock; or have the space to stockpile
against future projects...

Having a larger amount of lumber to pick through, because you obtained
it at a price you could afford can give you some of the flexibility to
work with some of the other features of the wood that simply aren't
available to you when you have to figure your cutlist out to the last
inch.

--Glenn Lyford

....
There is another way to approach obtaining wood with pleasing grain at
an economical price, which is to buy _cheaper_ wood, in a greater
quantity than you need, and then pick through it to get the quality
and grain you want.
....

That has been a very effective approach for me. The other approach is to
simply overbuy. If you count on 30 or 40% waste rather than 10% you can
pretty easily ensure that all rails and stiles are rifft or quatersawn
rather than flat. Even then, only the last 10% is really ever thrown in the
burn pile. less than optimal grain usually makes an acceptable drawer back.

-Steve