I have a couple slabs that I need to resaw and they are too wide for
my band saw, so I have had to cut on each side to max depth on the TS
with a thin kerf blade and am left with a 3" strip in the middle to
cut by hand. The problem is the cut is bowing as it progresses, on
the first one I ended up with a 1/16" bow in the middle. Similar
thing happened on a wider slab but I really didn't think it'd be an
issue over just 3". Technique problem or saw problem?

And I really hate Leon right about now.


-Kevin

wrote in message
...
I have a couple slabs that I need to resaw and they are too wide for
my band saw, so I have had to cut on each side to max depth on the TS
with a thin kerf blade and am left with a 3" strip in the middle to
cut by hand. The problem is the cut is bowing as it progresses, on
the first one I ended up with a 1/16" bow in the middle. Similar
thing happened on a wider slab but I really didn't think it'd be an
issue over just 3". Technique problem or saw problem?

And I really hate Leon right about now.


Are you thinking about my 16"er. LOL

I "used" to use a recip saw to take out the center. And of course, I
allowed plenty of material for the planer to bring things flat again.

If you essentially have a 3+" kerf on the beginning and end to guide the
hand saw, I would find it hard to blame technique.

On 4/28/2009 11:34 AM spake thus:

I have a couple slabs that I need to resaw and they are too wide for
my band saw, so I have had to cut on each side to max depth on the TS
with a thin kerf blade and am left with a 3" strip in the middle to
cut by hand. The problem is the cut is bowing as it progresses, on
the first one I ended up with a 1/16" bow in the middle. Similar
thing happened on a wider slab but I really didn't think it'd be an
issue over just 3". Technique problem or saw problem?

You're complaining about a 1/16" error in a deep cut in [assuming]
hardwood in a [assuming] long cut with a handsaw? (You're sawing the
remaining material in the entire length of the ripped piece, right?)

If I were you I'd be congratulating myself on a job well done.


--
Save the Planet
Kill Yourself

- motto of the Church of Euthanasia (http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)

On Apr 28, 3:09 pm, "Leon" wrote:
wrote in message

...

I have a couple slabs that I need to resaw and they are too wide for
my band saw, so I have had to cut on each side to max depth on the TS
with a thin kerf blade and am left with a 3" strip in the middle to
cut by hand. The problem is the cut is bowing as it progresses, on
the first one I ended up with a 1/16" bow in the middle. Similar
thing happened on a wider slab but I really didn't think it'd be an
issue over just 3". Technique problem or saw problem?

And I really hate Leon right about now.

Are you thinking about my 16"er. LOL

Yeah, and apparently I wouldn't even need to sand it after :P But I
am waiting for Festool to come out with one

I "used" to use a recip saw to take out the center. And of course, I
allowed plenty of material for the planer to bring things flat again.

Don't have one of those either. I went to look at what Delta is
charging for the riser kit these days and nearly fell over. $130??
The Grizzly version of the same thing is $60 but they apparently
aren't compatible. Add in new blades and not being able to use the
new ones I have on hand, I'd rather put the away towards a better saw
in the future than throw more money at this one.

It doesn't really matter what my final thickness ends up being, it's
some crotch area cherry that is all either cracked or has voids, so it
needs to be backed up with something regardless. The real problem is
with the saw being bent through the cut it is REALLY hard to do it.
I'm a wimp, but it shouldn't have taken an hour to get through the
first one and my arm is going to fall off.

If you essentially have a 3+" kerf on the beginning and end to guide the
hand saw, I would find it hard to blame technique.

Well, the kerf is still quite a bit wider than the saw so it's not
really doing anything until the saw is already being bent enough to
hit it. I just don't know if something like the set of the teeth
being off on one side or something could cause that.

-Kevin

On Apr 28, 4:39 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/28/2009 11:34 AM spake thus:

I have a couple slabs that I need to resaw and they are too wide for
my band saw, so I have had to cut on each side to max depth on the TS
with a thin kerf blade and am left with a 3" strip in the middle to
cut by hand. The problem is the cut is bowing as it progresses, on
the first one I ended up with a 1/16" bow in the middle. Similar
thing happened on a wider slab but I really didn't think it'd be an
issue over just 3". Technique problem or saw problem?

You're complaining about a 1/16" error in a deep cut in [assuming]
hardwood in a [assuming] long cut with a handsaw? (You're sawing the
remaining material in the entire length of the ripped piece, right?)

I have it basically standing up on end, so I am going across the
remaining 3" with the kerfs to guide me at the near and far ends. The
problem isn't really the error but because the saw is being bent to
get through the kerf it is taking a lot of effort to make the cut, it
starts off easily enough and just gets progressively harder. I can
make it a little easier sticking in a shim to open it up but not much
better.

-Kevin

wrote:
On Apr 28, 4:39 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/28/2009 11:34 AM spake thus:

I have a couple slabs that I need to resaw and they are too wide for
my band saw, so I have had to cut on each side to max depth on the
TS with a thin kerf blade and am left with a 3" strip in the middle
to cut by hand. The problem is the cut is bowing as it progresses,
on the first one I ended up with a 1/16" bow in the middle. Similar
thing happened on a wider slab but I really didn't think it'd be an
issue over just 3". Technique problem or saw problem?

You're complaining about a 1/16" error in a deep cut in [assuming]
hardwood in a [assuming] long cut with a handsaw? (You're sawing the
remaining material in the entire length of the ripped piece, right?)

I have it basically standing up on end, so I am going across the
remaining 3" with the kerfs to guide me at the near and far ends. The
problem isn't really the error but because the saw is being bent to
get through the kerf it is taking a lot of effort to make the cut, it
starts off easily enough and just gets progressively harder. I can
make it a little easier sticking in a shim to open it up but not much
better.

How much set do you have on the teeth? It might be that you need a little
more for a cut that deep to keep the kerf wide enough to avoid binding.

FWIW, Tage Frid recommends using a frame saw for that particular cut,
probably to avoid the problem you're seeing. If you want to take a shot
at a frame saw, Highland Woodworking has blades for under 10 bucks and a
couple of sites that show how to make the frame are
http://swingleydev.com/woodworking/jigs.php and
http://www.hyperkitten.com/woodworking/frame_saw.php3. It's not all that
big a project if you have a table saw and don't try to get artistic. Get
the blade first though because you're going to want to make the frame to fit
the blade you have.

Another option might be a ryoba-type pull saw (note, that's ryob_a_, a kind
of handsaw, not ryob_i_ the maker of power tools) but if you're not used to
a pull saw you may find it awkward until you get used to it.

On 4/28/2009 2:17 PM spake thus:

On Apr 28, 4:39 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 4/28/2009 11:34 AM spake thus:

I have a couple slabs that I need to resaw and they are too wide for
my band saw, so I have had to cut on each side to max depth on the TS
with a thin kerf blade and am left with a 3" strip in the middle to
cut by hand. The problem is the cut is bowing as it progresses, on
the first one I ended up with a 1/16" bow in the middle. Similar
thing happened on a wider slab but I really didn't think it'd be an
issue over just 3". Technique problem or saw problem?

You're complaining about a 1/16" error in a deep cut in [assuming]
hardwood in a [assuming] long cut with a handsaw? (You're sawing the
remaining material in the entire length of the ripped piece, right?)

I have it basically standing up on end, so I am going across the
remaining 3" with the kerfs to guide me at the near and far ends. The
problem isn't really the error but because the saw is being bent to
get through the kerf it is taking a lot of effort to make the cut, it
starts off easily enough and just gets progressively harder. I can
make it a little easier sticking in a shim to open it up but not much
better.

I see the problem. Have you tried waxing the saw?

Sounds like the saw's fault, not your technique. Your saw wants to pull
to one side; might be time to get it resharpened and re-set.


--
Save the Planet
Kill Yourself

- motto of the Church of Euthanasia (http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)

wrote in message
...
On Apr 28, 4:39 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/28/2009 11:34 AM spake thus:

I have a couple slabs that I need to resaw and they are too wide for
my band saw, so I have had to cut on each side to max depth on the TS
with a thin kerf blade and am left with a 3" strip in the middle to
cut by hand. The problem is the cut is bowing as it progresses, on
the first one I ended up with a 1/16" bow in the middle. Similar
thing happened on a wider slab but I really didn't think it'd be an
issue over just 3". Technique problem or saw problem?

You're complaining about a 1/16" error in a deep cut in [assuming]
hardwood in a [assuming] long cut with a handsaw? (You're sawing the
remaining material in the entire length of the ripped piece, right?)

I have it basically standing up on end, so I am going across the
remaining 3" with the kerfs to guide me at the near and far ends. The
problem isn't really the error but because the saw is being bent to
get through the kerf it is taking a lot of effort to make the cut, it
starts off easily enough and just gets progressively harder. I can
make it a little easier sticking in a shim to open it up but not much
better.


Just to make sure, you are sawing the short side, saw goes through the kerf
on both sides, not starting in one kerf and hoping to meet the other when
finished.

Also IIRC you mentioned thin kerf blade to start with, use a regular kerf
blade this will decrease the chance of pinching the hand saw blade.

wrote in message
...
On Apr 28, 4:39 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/28/2009 11:34 AM spake thus:

I have a couple slabs that I need to resaw and they are too wide for
my band saw, so I have had to cut on each side to max depth on the TS
with a thin kerf blade and am left with a 3" strip in the middle to
cut by hand. The problem is the cut is bowing as it progresses, on
the first one I ended up with a 1/16" bow in the middle. Similar
thing happened on a wider slab but I really didn't think it'd be an
issue over just 3". Technique problem or saw problem?

You're complaining about a 1/16" error in a deep cut in [assuming]
hardwood in a [assuming] long cut with a handsaw? (You're sawing the
remaining material in the entire length of the ripped piece, right?)

I have it basically standing up on end, so I am going across the
remaining 3" with the kerfs to guide me at the near and far ends. The
problem isn't really the error but because the saw is being bent to
get through the kerf it is taking a lot of effort to make the cut, it
starts off easily enough and just gets progressively harder. I can
make it a little easier sticking in a shim to open it up but not much
better.


I'd suggest waxing the blade and "laying it down in the kerf" as you cut so
that more of the blade is in the table saw kerf. If you angle the board in
the vice you don't have to angle yourself... also, flip the board around and
cut from the opposite side as you run out of guiding handsaw kerf... much as
you should when resawing entirely by hand. Shimming the stock is perfectly
acceptable if you have a problem with the kerf closing up!

John

On Apr 28, 5:59 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
wrote:
On Apr 28, 4:39 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/28/2009 11:34 AM spake thus:

I have a couple slabs that I need to resaw and they are too wide for
my band saw, so I have had to cut on each side to max depth on the
TS with a thin kerf blade and am left with a 3" strip in the middle
to cut by hand. The problem is the cut is bowing as it progresses,
on the first one I ended up with a 1/16" bow in the middle. Similar
thing happened on a wider slab but I really didn't think it'd be an
issue over just 3". Technique problem or saw problem?

You're complaining about a 1/16" error in a deep cut in [assuming]
hardwood in a [assuming] long cut with a handsaw? (You're sawing the
remaining material in the entire length of the ripped piece, right?)

I have it basically standing up on end, so I am going across the
remaining 3" with the kerfs to guide me at the near and far ends. The
problem isn't really the error but because the saw is being bent to
get through the kerf it is taking a lot of effort to make the cut, it
starts off easily enough and just gets progressively harder. I can
make it a little easier sticking in a shim to open it up but not much
better.

How much set do you have on the teeth? It might be that you need a little
more for a cut that deep to keep the kerf wide enough to avoid binding.

FWIW, Tage Frid recommends using a frame saw for that particular cut,
probably to avoid the problem you're seeing. If you want to take a shot
at a frame saw, Highland Woodworking has blades for under 10 bucks and a
couple of sites that show how to make the frame arehttp://swingleydev.com/woodworking/jigs.phpandhttp://www.hyperkitten.com/woodworking/frame_saw.php3. It's not all that
big a project if you have a table saw and don't try to get artistic. Get
the blade first though because you're going to want to make the frame to fit
the blade you have.

Another option might be a ryoba-type pull saw (note, that's ryob_a_, a kind
of handsaw, not ryob_i_ the maker of power tools) but if you're not used to
a pull saw you may find it awkward until you get used to it.

Good suggestions. I suspect it's just dull. The band saw does the
same thing with a dull blade, but I thought that was because of the
way it's restrained. I don't see why the hand saw wouldn't just pull
to one side rather than make a non-straight cut.


-Kevin

In article 64e34e0e-e87b-45a5-bdca-8a51885e06e5
@a5g2000pre.googlegroups.com, says...


I have it basically standing up on end, so I am going across the
remaining 3" with the kerfs to guide me at the near and far ends. The
problem isn't really the error but because the saw is being bent to
get through the kerf it is taking a lot of effort to make the cut, it
starts off easily enough and just gets progressively harder. I can
make it a little easier sticking in a shim to open it up but not much
better.

You've just nailed a bit of my suggestion.

Internal stresses in the wood are probably closing the kerf and pinching
the saw.

If you haven't already, shim along the length of the cut you've taken
with your table saw and then shim as you go behind the hand saw.

I would wonder if you aren't seeing a bit of torsion in the wood too.

I would also wonder if you aren't going to see the wood bend in a
different direction when you go to resaw it.

On Apr 28, 2:34*pm, wrote:
I have a couple slabs that I need to resaw and they are too wide for
my band saw, so I have had to cut on each side to max depth on the TS
with a thin kerf blade and am left with a 3" strip in the middle to
cut by hand. *The problem is the cut is bowing as it progresses, on
the first one I ended up with a 1/16" bow in the middle. *Similar
thing happened on a wider slab but I really didn't think it'd be an
issue over just 3". *Technique problem or saw problem?

What sort of handsaw are you using?
Do you maintain the angle of cut throughout the cut?

R

wrote in message
...
I have it basically standing up on end, so I am going across the
remaining 3" with the kerfs to guide me at the near and far ends. The
problem isn't really the error but because the saw is being bent to
get through the kerf it is taking a lot of effort to make the cut, it
starts off easily enough and just gets progressively harder. I can
make it a little easier sticking in a shim to open it up but not much
better.

You still need to saw straight down inside the TS kerf. If the saw wanders
unequally and wasn't guided by the kerf, the cut would have slowly twisted
as you progressed down the cut. As it is, the saw just bends where it rubs
against the "guide". To fix it, back up a few inches, and use short nibbling
strokes to steer the cut back to the center and straight. This is no
different from resawing entirely by hand. If the board is long enough, you
will have learned to make a straight ripping cut when you're done.

On 4/29/2009 9:13 AM MikeWhy spake thus:

wrote in message
...

I have it basically standing up on end, so I am going across the
remaining 3" with the kerfs to guide me at the near and far ends. The
problem isn't really the error but because the saw is being bent to
get through the kerf it is taking a lot of effort to make the cut, it
starts off easily enough and just gets progressively harder. I can
make it a little easier sticking in a shim to open it up but not much
better.

You still need to saw straight down inside the TS kerf. If the saw wanders
unequally and wasn't guided by the kerf, the cut would have slowly twisted
as you progressed down the cut. As it is, the saw just bends where it rubs
against the "guide". To fix it, back up a few inches, and use short nibbling
strokes to steer the cut back to the center and straight. This is no
different from resawing entirely by hand. If the board is long enough, you
will have learned to make a straight ripping cut when you're done.

That reminds me of Bill Cosby's old "Noah" routine:

VOO-pah! VOO-pah! etc.

(other old farts like me may get this reference)


--
Save the Planet
Kill Yourself

- motto of the Church of Euthanasia (http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)

On Apr 29, 8:50 am, phorbin wrote:
In article 64e34e0e-e87b-45a5-bdca-8a51885e06e5
@a5g2000pre.googlegroups.com, says...

I have it basically standing up on end, so I am going across the
remaining 3" with the kerfs to guide me at the near and far ends. The
problem isn't really the error but because the saw is being bent to
get through the kerf it is taking a lot of effort to make the cut, it
starts off easily enough and just gets progressively harder. I can
make it a little easier sticking in a shim to open it up but not much
better.

You've just nailed a bit of my suggestion.

Internal stresses in the wood are probably closing the kerf and pinching
the saw.

If you haven't already, shim along the length of the cut you've taken
with your table saw and then shim as you go behind the hand saw.

I would wonder if you aren't seeing a bit of torsion in the wood too.

I would also wonder if you aren't going to see the wood bend in a
different direction when you go to resaw it.

Well apparently the posts I made last night never showed up. Just to
be clear, after the cut was done the other side of the board is still
flat, and on the concave side if you put a straight edge across it at
the edges where the TS cuts are they are still parallel, in between
the two it's concave.

The band saw will do the same thing with a dull blade, or not enough
tension, but I thought that was because of the geometry of how the
blade is tensioned. I have no idea when that saw was last sharpened
(if ever) but I figured if it wasn't dull when I started it was when I
finished. At any rate I opened up Leonard Lee's book today and took a
shot at sharpening it. I don't have a saw set so I just filed it, and
now it's cutting twice as fast and doesn't seem to be bowing. Haven't
got it cut through yet as my hand is still an interesting shade of red
from yesterday. I guess I have no first hand experience of what a
sharp saw ought to do, so I didn't realize how dull it was. I'm sure
it's not as sharp as it could be either, I just took 5 strokes on each
tooth and hoped for the best.

-Kevin

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
On 4/29/2009 9:13 AM MikeWhy spake thus:

wrote in message
...

I have it basically standing up on end, so I am going across the
remaining 3" with the kerfs to guide me at the near and far ends. The
problem isn't really the error but because the saw is being bent to
get through the kerf it is taking a lot of effort to make the cut, it
starts off easily enough and just gets progressively harder. I can
make it a little easier sticking in a shim to open it up but not much
better.

You still need to saw straight down inside the TS kerf. If the saw
wanders unequally and wasn't guided by the kerf, the cut would have
slowly twisted as you progressed down the cut. As it is, the saw just
bends where it rubs against the "guide". To fix it, back up a few inches,
and use short nibbling strokes to steer the cut back to the center and
straight. This is no different from resawing entirely by hand. If the
board is long enough, you will have learned to make a straight ripping
cut when you're done.

That reminds me of Bill Cosby's old "Noah" routine:

VOO-pah! VOO-pah! etc.

(other old farts like me may get this reference)

I do NOT consider myself to be an old fart... however, I do remember when he
started doing that routine. ;~) I also bought the "album" on CD a couple
years ago so my boys could hear it! LOL

John

On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 07:50:36 -0500, phorbin
wrote:

In article 64e34e0e-e87b-45a5-bdca-8a51885e06e5
, says...


I have it basically standing up on end, so I am going across the
remaining 3" with the kerfs to guide me at the near and far ends. The
problem isn't really the error but because the saw is being bent to
get through the kerf it is taking a lot of effort to make the cut, it
starts off easily enough and just gets progressively harder. I can
make it a little easier sticking in a shim to open it up but not much
better.

You've just nailed a bit of my suggestion.

Internal stresses in the wood are probably closing the kerf and pinching
the saw.

If you haven't already, shim along the length of the cut you've taken
with your table saw and then shim as you go behind the hand saw.

I would wonder if you aren't seeing a bit of torsion in the wood too.

I would also wonder if you aren't going to see the wood bend in a
different direction when you go to resaw it.

For some reason my posts from google aren't showing up, so we'll try
this instead.

Just so we're clear, the board isn't warping. The other side is still
flat and I can put a straight edge against it and at the edges where
the TS cut is those are still parallel to each other, it's in between.

The band saw does the same thing with a dull blade, though I don't
understand why a hand saw that isn't under tension would do the same
thing I have no idea how long ago it's been sharpened and I figured if
it wasn't dull when I started it probably was by the time I was done.

So I cracked open Leonard Lee's book and gave it a shot, I don't have
a saw set so I just filed it as it was. What a difference! It cuts
twice as fast now. I didn't complete a cut so I am not 100% sure, but
it's not getting harder as the cut progresses so it looks like that
solved it.

I just didn't have any first hand experience with what a sharp saw
ought to do, so I didn't know how dull it was. And I am sure a better
sharpening job could have been done, so I probably still don't know,
but at least I know a little more. I just wish I knew it before my
hand turned interesting shades of red.

-Kevin