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O/T: Pirate Rifles
Subject
Heard on ABC news that the Navy Seals used "Gyro Stabalized" rifles to take out the pirates. Having taken a few shots from a pitching boat, makes sense. Somebody said: It was either the best shots on earth, or we have not heard the whole story of the Pirate shots. Makes sense. Anybody have any straight skinny? Lew |
Pirate Rifles
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message ... Subject Heard on ABC news that the Navy Seals used "Gyro Stabalized" rifles to take out the pirates. Having taken a few shots from a pitching boat, makes sense. Somebody said: It was either the best shots on earth, or we have not heard the whole story of the Pirate shots. Makes sense. Anybody have any straight skinny? Lew Well that makes sense. I was talking with my son and pointing out that the ship was moving AND the target was moving. Reminds me of my physics class in college and working the formula to determine when to shoot the big guns on the destroyers. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
On Apr 17, 5:13*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
Subject Heard on ABC news that the Navy Seals used "Gyro Stabalized" rifles to take out the pirates. Having taken a few shots from a pitching boat, makes sense. Somebody said: It was either the best shots on earth, or we have not heard the whole story of the Pirate shots. Makes sense. Anybody have any straight skinny? Lew You'd need gyro stabilized pirates too then? |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
"Robatoy" wrote in message
... On Apr 17, 5:13 pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote: Subject Heard on ABC news that the Navy Seals used "Gyro Stabalized" rifles to take out the pirates. Having taken a few shots from a pitching boat, makes sense. Somebody said: It was either the best shots on earth, or we have not heard the whole story of the Pirate shots. Makes sense. Anybody have any straight skinny? Lew You'd need gyro stabilized pirates too then? ======= At the end of the 80' tow rope? I think I could do that with a target pistol, sitting on a gyro stabilized gun mount. Gyro stabilized sniper rifles my shaven behind. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:13:01 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote: Subject Heard on ABC news that the Navy Seals used "Gyro Stabalized" rifles to take out the pirates. Having taken a few shots from a pitching boat, makes sense. Somebody said: It was either the best shots on earth, or we have not heard the whole story of the Pirate shots. Makes sense. Anybody have any straight skinny? Lew Not only from a pitching ship but into a pitching boat. Gyro-stabilization could help on the shooting end but wouldn't do anything to stabilize the target end. I think target acquiring, active guidance small arms ammunition is in pretty short supply. So even if we do hear the "whole story", my bet is it's still going to be an example of some damn fine shooting. Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA |
Pirate Rifles
I was damned impressed when I heard the story. Being perched on a
stabilized gun mount makes sense. Otherwise I chalked it up to the SEALS identifying a potential situation, i.e. a sniper shot from one boat to another, and have practiced the hell out of it. The report I thought was funny was that the sea states started getting heavy and the pirates didn't seem to be too comfortable, so the USN offered to tow them to calmer waters which they accepted. SUCKERS, thanks for making the shot a little easier. Damn fine work by some of America's best. SteveP. "Lew Hodgett" wrote in message ... Subject Heard on ABC news that the Navy Seals used "Gyro Stabalized" rifles to take out the pirates. Having taken a few shots from a pitching boat, makes sense. Somebody said: It was either the best shots on earth, or we have not heard the whole story of the Pirate shots. Makes sense. Anybody have any straight skinny? Lew |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
On 2009-04-17, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Heard on ABC news that the Navy Seals used "Gyro Stabalized" rifles to take out the pirates. I suspect stabalized optics, old news in Japanese cameras. Rifled bullets are gyro-stabized by definition. nb |
Pirate Rifles
Highland Pairos wrote:
I was damned impressed when I heard the story. Being perched on a stabilized gun mount makes sense. Otherwise I chalked it up to the SEALS identifying a potential situation, i.e. a sniper shot from one boat to another, and have practiced the hell out of it. The report I thought was funny was that the sea states started getting heavy and the pirates didn't seem to be too comfortable, so the USN offered to tow them to calmer waters which they accepted. SUCKERS, thanks for making the shot a little easier. Damn fine work by some of America's best. SteveP. Richard Marcinko's first book and even his second offer some intriguing descriptions of how realistic he tried to make the training of his SEAL team and how it paid off in improved performance. However for one reason or another he was either forced to or decided to use a fictional approach to telling his story by the second book so it gets harder to tell what might have really happened from what he makes up. I for one wouldn't be surprised if the SEALS who took out these punk pirates had trained for something very much like what happened. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
notbob wrote:
On 2009-04-17, Lew Hodgett wrote: Heard on ABC news that the Navy Seals used "Gyro Stabalized" rifles to take out the pirates. I suspect stabalized optics, old news in Japanese cameras. Rifled bullets are gyro-stabized by definition. nb Think modern camera. j4 |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
On Apr 17, 7:55*pm, Tom Veatch wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:13:01 GMT, "Lew Hodgett" wrote: Subject Heard on ABC news that the Navy Seals used "Gyro Stabalized" rifles to take out the pirates. Having taken a few shots from a pitching boat, makes sense. Somebody said: It was either the best shots on earth, or we have not heard the whole story of the Pirate shots. Makes sense. Anybody have any straight skinny? Lew Not only from a pitching ship but into a pitching boat. Gyro-stabilization could help on the shooting end but wouldn't do anything to stabilize the target end. I think target acquiring, active guidance small arms ammunition is in pretty short supply. So even if we do hear the "whole story", my bet is it's still going to be an example of some damn fine shooting. Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA Zzzactly. At a couple thousand feet per second, a target doesn't move very far at that short a distance. Besides, guys like that shoot with their balls, no technology required. When the moment is right, with a bit of a lead, send that little nugget on its way. It gets there really quick. So you might be off by 1/4". |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
You guy who are wearing the tin foil hats might want to catch this
week's 20/20 on ABC. They had a military sniper show just how easy that shot is for them.... ten times in a row. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
jo4hn wrote:
notbob wrote: On 2009-04-17, Lew Hodgett wrote: Heard on ABC news that the Navy Seals used "Gyro Stabalized" rifles to take out the pirates. I suspect stabalized optics, old news in Japanese cameras. Rifled bullets are gyro-stabized by definition. nb Think modern camera. Stabilized optics don't do you any good in aiming a weapon because it has to be pointed the same place that the optics are pointed. For such stablization to be useful the whole gun has to be stabilized. Stablization of the bullet does not help in aiming. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
On Apr 17, 11:18*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
You guy who are wearing the tin foil hats might want to catch this week's 20/20 on ABC. They had a military sniper show just how easy that shot is for them.... ten times in a row. -- * -MIKE- * "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" * * *--Elvin Jones *(1927-2004) * -- *http://mikedrums.com * * ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply http://military.discovery.com/techno...nipers-09.html |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
Lew Hodgett wrote:
Subject Heard on ABC news that the Navy Seals used "Gyro Stabalized" rifles to take out the pirates. Having taken a few shots from a pitching boat, makes sense. Somebody said: It was either the best shots on earth, or we have not heard the whole story of the Pirate shots. Makes sense. Anybody have any straight skinny? Come on, it is not an impossible shot even with a handgun, less for a sniper rifle. As a matter of fact 25 yards is not even a distance for a sniper rifle--regular scope is parallax compensated for 50 yards and beyond... It is no big deal to put all the bullets into a quarter sized circle at 100 yards distance. That is when using a commodity rifle like e.g. widely available PSL-54C and cheap surplus ammo. I wouldn't even start about distance 4 times shorter... Yes, there are some challenges because of relative boats movement but it is also not rocket science. Especially when those boats are tied with a rope... And absolutely no need to even think about wind at that distance. And it only takes 1/30th of a second for a bullet to travel that distance so there is no black magic of feeling where to aim if a target is moving... --- ************************************************** **************** * KSI@home KOI8 Net The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA Miracles require 24-hour notice. * ************************************************** **************** |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
"Sergey Kubushin" wrote in message
... It is no big deal to put all the bullets into a quarter sized circle at 100 yards distance. That is when using a commodity rifle like e.g. widely available PSL-54C and cheap surplus ammo. I wouldn't even start about distance 4 times shorter... With an accurized weapon and hand loads maybe, and then only with the help of a bench rest. Sub-MOA is difficult to achieve even at that short range. Your target size equates to 21 seconds of arc. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
Sergey Kubushin writes:
Yes, there are some challenges because of relative boats movement but it is also not rocket science. Especially when those boats are tied with a rope... Someone said they used gyros on the rifles for stabilization. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
Maxwell Lol wrote:
Sergey Kubushin writes: Yes, there are some challenges because of relative boats movement but it is also not rocket science. Especially when those boats are tied with a rope... Someone said they used gyros on the rifles for stabilization. That was a reporter who likely got something or other garbled. Or maybe it wasn't snipers at all, maybe they tagged them with a Phalanx--don't know if it can fire single rounds or not but the latest ones do have surface attack capability as well as antiair. The Navy does have stabilized mounts for weapons down to 7.62mm or smaller but they aren't sniper rifles. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
Maxwell Lol wrote:
Sergey Kubushin writes: Yes, there are some challenges because of relative boats movement but it is also not rocket science. Especially when those boats are tied with a rope... Someone said they used gyros on the rifles for stabilization. Yeah, and here's where the SEALs get really high marks. Imagine the skill necessary to attach a fair-sized gyroscope to the underside of the pirate's boad! As for sniping, you might enjoy the following excerpt from a Lee Childs book: --- begin quote First thing out of the barrel of Reacher's Barrett was a blast of hot gas. The powder in the cartridge exploded in a fraction of a millionth of a second and expanded to a super-heated bubble. That bubble of gas hurled the bullet down the barrel and forced ahead of it and around it to explode out into the atmosphere. Most of it was smashed sideways by the muzzle brake in a perfectly balanced radial pattern, like a doughnut, so that the recoil moved the barrel straight back against Reacher's shoulder without deflecting it either sideways or up or down. Meanwhile, behind it, the bullet was starting to spin inside the barrel as the rifling grooves grabbed at it. Then the gas ahead of the bullet was heating the oxygen in the air to the point where the air caught fire. There was a brief flash of flame and the bullet burst out through the exact center of it, spearing through the burned air at nineteen hundred miles an hour. A thousandth of a second later, it was six feet away, and its sound was bravely chasing after it, three times slower. The bullet took five hundredths of a second to cross the [parade ground], by which time the sound of its shot had just passed Reacher's ears and cleared the ridge of the roof. The bullet had a hand-polished copper jacket and it was flying straight and true, but by the time it had passed soundlessly over McGrath's head it had slowed a little. And the air was moving it. It was moving it right to left as the gentle mountain breeze tugged imperceptibly at it. Half a second into its travel, the bullet had covered thirteen hundred feet and it had moved seven inches to the left. And it had dropped seven inches. Gravity had pulled it in. The more gravity pulled, the more the bullet slowed. The more it slowed, the more gravity deflected it. It speared onward in a perfect graceful curve. A whole second after leaving the barrel, it was nine hundred yards into its journey. Way past McGrath's running figure, but still over the trees, still three hundred yards short of its target. Another sixth of a second later, it was clear of the trees and alongside the office building. Now it was a slow bullet. It had pulled four feet left and five feet down. It passed well clear of Holly and was twenty feet past her before she heard the hiss in the air. The sound of the shot was still to come. Reacher's bullet hit Borken in the head a full second and a third after he fired it. It entered the front of his forehead and was out of the back of his skull three ten-thousandths of a second later. In and out without really slowing much more at all, because Borken's skull and brains were nothing to a two-ounce lead projectile with a needle point and a polished metal jacket. The bullet was well over the endless forest beyond before the pressure wave built up in Borken's skull and exploded it. Reacher was watching it through his scope. Heart in his mouth. A full second and a third is a long time to wait. He watched Borken's skull explode like it had been burst from the inside with a sledgehammer. It came apart like a diagram. Reacher saw curved shards of bone bursting outward and red mist blooming. --- end quote You can read one of Child's books online at leechild.com. Then you'll go buy the rest. And before you say "What does an ex-British lawyer know about sniping?" remember the similar question "What the **** does a real estate broker in Virginia know about global submarine warfare?" That question was asked by every major publisher in declining "The Hunt for Red October." Clancey's book was eventually published by the Naval Institute Press, whose last big seller was a tabulation of tide tables for Hudson Bay, 1886-87. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
In article , "MikeWhy" wrote:
"Sergey Kubushin" wrote in message ... It is no big deal to put all the bullets into a quarter sized circle at 100 yards distance. That is when using a commodity rifle like e.g. widely available PSL-54C and cheap surplus ammo. I wouldn't even start about distance 4 times shorter... With an accurized weapon and hand loads maybe, and then only with the help of a bench rest. Sub-MOA is difficult to achieve even at that short range. Your target size equates to 21 seconds of arc. If you're talking about the "short range" being the 25 yards at which the pirates were shot, and the "target size" being a human head, you need to check your math -- it's 21 *minutes* of arc. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
Hell, John Wayne could have done it from a rowing boat with a Remington in
each hand. Blindfold in his good eye. While sitting on a bucking horse. And drinking corn likker put of a big jug. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
No doubt the military has all kinds of exotic sighting systems, but even
on the high seas, a 30 yard shot from a sniper grade M14 shouldn't be beyond the capabilites of the marksman who were helicoptered to the Navy ship. -- When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box. Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org |
Pirate Rifles AND what CNN has done to the story.
On Apr 17, 6:30*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message ... Subject Heard on ABC news that the Navy Seals used "Gyro Stabalized" rifles to take out the pirates. Having taken a few shots from a pitching boat, makes sense. Somebody said: It was either the best shots on earth, or we have not heard the whole story of the Pirate shots. Makes sense. Anybody have any straight skinny? Lew Well that makes sense. *I was talking with my son and pointing out that the ship was moving AND the target was moving. *Reminds me of my physics class in college and working the formula to determine when to shoot the big guns on the destroyers. How about those bullshiatters at CNN, eh? Read the last paragraph of this CNN article: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa...led/index.html "Last week at assault by pirates on a U.S.-flagged ship, the Maersk Alabama ended when U.S. Navy sharshoopers [sic] stormed the vessel and shot and killed three of the pirates who were holding the ship's captain captive." Although technically not a lie, it is also nowhere near what really happened. Those CNN *******s do that kinda stuff ALL the time. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
Larry W wrote:
No doubt the military has all kinds of exotic sighting systems, but even on the high seas, a 30 yard shot from a sniper grade M14 shouldn't be beyond the capabilites of the marksman who were helicoptered to the Navy ship. Correct. Last night 20/20 showed how routine the shots were for a trained sniper. http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=7367613 Unfortunately it's not until the last ten seconds of this clip. Take off the tin foil hats. :-) -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
... In article , "MikeWhy" wrote: "Sergey Kubushin" wrote in message ... It is no big deal to put all the bullets into a quarter sized circle at 100 yards distance. That is when using a commodity rifle like e.g. widely available PSL-54C and cheap surplus ammo. I wouldn't even start about distance 4 times shorter... With an accurized weapon and hand loads maybe, and then only with the help of a bench rest. Sub-MOA is difficult to achieve even at that short range. Your target size equates to 21 seconds of arc. If you're talking about the "short range" being the 25 yards at which the pirates were shot, and the "target size" being a human head, you need to check your math -- it's 21 *minutes* of arc. No, I was talking about the March Hare and his bowtie. WTF? Do you not read? The response was to the simplicity of hitting a quarter at 100 yds, a 3/4" round target at 3600 inches. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
On Apr 18, 12:27*pm, "MikeWhy" wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , "MikeWhy" wrote: "Sergey Kubushin" wrote in message ... It is no big deal to put all the bullets into a quarter sized circle at 100 yards distance. That is when using a commodity rifle like e.g. widely available PSL-54C and cheap surplus ammo. I wouldn't even start about distance 4 times shorter... With an accurized weapon and hand loads maybe, and then only with the help of a bench rest. Sub-MOA is difficult to achieve even at that short range. Your target size equates to 21 seconds of arc. If you're talking about the "short range" being the 25 yards at which the pirates were shot, and the "target size" being a human head, you need to check your math -- it's 21 *minutes* of arc. No, I was talking about the March Hare and his bowtie. WTF? Do you not read? The response was to the simplicity of hitting a quarter at 100 yds, a 3/4" round target at 3600 inches. Don't feed The Miller Troll. He thrives on this sort of ****. He lies in the bushes until somebody misplaces a comma, and he pounces. He appears to have no other life. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
MikeWhy wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message ... In article , "MikeWhy" wrote: "Sergey Kubushin" wrote in message ... It is no big deal to put all the bullets into a quarter sized circle at 100 yards distance. That is when using a commodity rifle like e.g. widely available PSL-54C and cheap surplus ammo. I wouldn't even start about distance 4 times shorter... With an accurized weapon and hand loads maybe, and then only with the help of a bench rest. Sub-MOA is difficult to achieve even at that short range. Your target size equates to 21 seconds of arc. If you're talking about the "short range" being the 25 yards at which the pirates were shot, and the "target size" being a human head, you need to check your math -- it's 21 *minutes* of arc. No, I was talking about the March Hare and his bowtie. WTF? Do you not read? The response was to the simplicity of hitting a quarter at 100 yds, a 3/4" round target at 3600 inches. OK, I might be wrong about a quarter. I meant 1" circle that is 1 MOA. It is easily achieved with either of my two PSL-54C rifles without any accurizing and using cheap Bulgarian surplus ammo still available at $85/tin. Sure one would need a bench rest to do this. But that is not to start a discussion about sub-MOA shooting and handloading. This is just to illustrate that 25 yards head shot in absolutely nothing to write home about even using cheap civilian weapon with cheap ammo. --- ************************************************** **************** * KSI@home KOI8 Net The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA Miracles require 24-hour notice. * ************************************************** **************** |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
On 2009-04-18, HeyBub wrote:
As for sniping, you might enjoy the following excerpt from a Lee Childs book: Pure writer's crap. nb |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
In article , "MikeWhy" wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. In article , "MikeWhy" wrote: "Sergey Kubushin" wrote in message ... It is no big deal to put all the bullets into a quarter sized circle at 100 yards distance. That is when using a commodity rifle like e.g. widely available PSL-54C and cheap surplus ammo. I wouldn't even start about distance 4 times shorter... With an accurized weapon and hand loads maybe, and then only with the help of a bench rest. Sub-MOA is difficult to achieve even at that short range. Your target size equates to 21 seconds of arc. If you're talking about the "short range" being the 25 yards at which the pirates were shot, and the "target size" being a human head, you need to check your math -- it's 21 *minutes* of arc. No, I was talking about the March Hare and his bowtie. WTF? Do you not read? Obviously I read it; how else would I have become aware that what you wrote was ambiguous? The response was to the simplicity of hitting a quarter at 100 yds, a 3/4" round target at 3600 inches. BTW, you *still* need to check your math. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
notbob wrote:
On 2009-04-18, HeyBub wrote: As for sniping, you might enjoy the following excerpt from a Lee Childs book: Pure writer's crap. Um, probably not. This same story was posted on a guns newsgroup. Respondents agreed the only area where there might have been a problem was in the beginning when Childs said "The powder in the cartridge exploded in a fraction of a millionth of a second..." Some experts said that was an exaggeration and others said, depending on the powder load, it was just barely possible. If you have experience or information tending to refute the physics in the story, please feel free to share. Otherwise, just enjoy the story. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
On 2009-04-19, HeyBub wrote:
notbob wrote: On 2009-04-18, HeyBub wrote: As for sniping, you might enjoy the following excerpt from a Lee Childs book: Pure writer's crap. Um, probably not. This same story was posted on a guns newsgroup. Respondents agreed the only area where there might have been a problem was in the beginning when Childs said "The powder in the cartridge exploded in a fraction of a millionth of a second..." Some experts said that was an exaggeration and others said, depending on the powder load, it was just barely possible. It was schlock writing in the first degree. BAD poetic license and over the top exageration for the video game crowd. Exactly what is a "fraction of a millionth"? Nothing you can pin down, just like the rest of the article. Hand polished bullets? Air catching on fire? What horse crap. If you have experience or information tending to refute the physics in the story, please feel free to share..... I'd be up the rest of the night. nb |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
HeyBub wrote:
notbob wrote: On 2009-04-18, HeyBub wrote: As for sniping, you might enjoy the following excerpt from a Lee Childs book: Pure writer's crap. Um, probably not. This same story was posted on a guns newsgroup. Respondents agreed the only area where there might have been a problem was in the beginning when Childs said "The powder in the cartridge exploded in a fraction of a millionth of a second..." Some experts said that was an exaggeration and others said, depending on the powder load, it was just barely possible. If you have experience or information tending to refute the physics in the story, please feel free to share. Otherwise, just enjoy the story. When a story makes me go "whoa, what a load of crap" then I have trouble enjoying it. As for the comparison with Clancy, the difference there is that Clancy was accurate enough that the professional society for US Naval officers saw merit in his work. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
notbob wrote:
Pure writer's crap. Um, probably not. This same story was posted on a guns newsgroup. Respondents agreed the only area where there might have been a problem was in the beginning when Childs said "The powder in the cartridge exploded in a fraction of a millionth of a second..." Some experts said that was an exaggeration and others said, depending on the powder load, it was just barely possible. It was schlock writing in the first degree. BAD poetic license and over the top exageration for the video game crowd. Exactly what is a "fraction of a millionth"? Nothing you can pin down, just like the rest of the article. Hand polished bullets? Air catching on fire? What horse crap. If you have experience or information tending to refute the physics in the story, please feel free to share..... I'd be up the rest of the night. I agree that the writing was not the best. The author could have spent more time on the smells wafting along on the gentle breeze he mentioned and, like any good romance novel, he could have told us more about what each of the actors was wearing and what each protagonist thought about the clothing of the others. But as to your questions: One-tenmillionth of a second is a "fraction of a millionth" of a second. Sniper bullets ARE hand polished (and hand-loaded and micked to tolerances of less than 1/1000ths of an inch). I don't know about the "air on fire" business, but I suppose super-heated air can do odd things. Anyway, you don't have to stay up the rest of the night. Just find a reference or two that snipers use production-grade bullets, that .50 caliber bullets don't begin detonation in less than a millionth of a second, or that there are no flames exiting the barrel. ------ The velocity of solid explosives can exceed 390,000 fps. Assuming 2" of powder in a .50cal cartridge, all the powder could burn in 2 / 12 /390,000 = 4 ten-millionths of a second (note this is less than "a millionth of a second). That seems to be close to the minimum burn time. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
On 2009-04-19, HeyBub wrote:
One-tenmillionth of a second is a "fraction of a millionth" of a second. So is one hundredth or 5 hundred and forty seven thousandths of a millionth. Which is it? Sniper bullets ARE hand polished..... Only by self deluded comic book droolers. Not even benchrest shooters are that lame. They polish the barrel and coat the bullets. business, but I suppose super-heated air can do odd things. You "suppose" the writer might be exaggerating jes a tad for effect? Anyway, you don't have to stay up the rest of the night. Just find a reference or two that snipers use production-grade bullets, that .50 caliber You find 'em. I got better things to do. Oh, and another one... I'll guaran-damn-tee you no shooter views the target being hit through his scope after launching a Ma Duece round from a shoulder fired weapon. But, go ahead and live the fantasy. nb |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
HeyBub wrote:
notbob wrote: Pure writer's crap. Um, probably not. This same story was posted on a guns newsgroup. Respondents agreed the only area where there might have been a problem was in the beginning when Childs said "The powder in the cartridge exploded in a fraction of a millionth of a second..." Some experts said that was an exaggeration and others said, depending on the powder load, it was just barely possible. It was schlock writing in the first degree. BAD poetic license and over the top exageration for the video game crowd. Exactly what is a "fraction of a millionth"? Nothing you can pin down, just like the rest of the article. Hand polished bullets? Air catching on fire? What horse crap. If you have experience or information tending to refute the physics in the story, please feel free to share..... I'd be up the rest of the night. I agree that the writing was not the best. The author could have spent more time on the smells wafting along on the gentle breeze he mentioned and, like any good romance novel, he could have told us more about what each of the actors was wearing and what each protagonist thought about the clothing of the others. But as to your questions: One-tenmillionth of a second is a "fraction of a millionth" of a second. Sniper bullets ARE hand polished (and hand-loaded and micked to tolerances of less than 1/1000ths of an inch). I don't know about the "air on fire" business, but I suppose super-heated air can do odd things. Anyway, you don't have to stay up the rest of the night. Just find a reference or two that snipers use production-grade bullets, that .50 caliber bullets don't begin detonation in less than a millionth of a second, or that there are no flames exiting the barrel. Well, for openers, if flames exit the barrel that pretty much negates his millionth of a second as the powder would have been entirely consumed before the bullet left the muzzle thus no flames. Watch high speed photos and you'll see no flames coming out until the bullet leaves the muzzle. As for snipers and "production grade bullets", define "production grade". If you mean Chinese Army rejects, no, they don't use those. If you mean Sierra match grade, they do use those, or did a while back. ------ The velocity of solid explosives can exceed 390,000 fps. So what? Gunpowder is not "solid explosives", it is a propellant. In an ideal cartridge, grain dimensions and composition would be adjusted to sustain for the entire duration of the bullet's passage through the barrel the highest pressure that the firearm could tolerate. Burning all the powder in a millionth of a second would be very inefficient in that it would produce a pressure spike with rapid decline as the volume behind the bullet increased. Assuming 2" of powder in a .50cal cartridge, all the powder could burn in 2 / 12 /390,000 = 4 ten-millionths of a second (note this is less than "a millionth of a second). Which is not relevant to the real world. That seems to be close to the minimum burn time. It's also totally unrealistic for a real-world firearm. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
notbob writes:
On 2009-04-19, HeyBub wrote: One-tenmillionth of a second is a "fraction of a millionth" of a second. So is one hundredth or 5 hundred and forty seven thousandths of a millionth. Which is it? The upper limit is obviously a millionth, anfd this value is less. So in other words, it's equivalent to saying "in less than a millionth of a second" which is a measurable number. And that ls all thatr matters. Anyway, you don't have to stay up the rest of the night. Just find a You find 'em. I got better things to do. That's a cop-out. I know nothing, but your credibility is very low when you argue like this. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
Maxwell Lol wrote:
notbob writes: On 2009-04-19, HeyBub wrote: One-tenmillionth of a second is a "fraction of a millionth" of a second. So is one hundredth or 5 hundred and forty seven thousandths of a millionth. Which is it? The upper limit is obviously a millionth, anfd this value is less. So in other words, it's equivalent to saying "in less than a millionth of a second" which is a measurable number. And that ls all thatr matters. Anyway, you don't have to stay up the rest of the night. Just find a You find 'em. I got better things to do. That's a cop-out. I know nothing, but your credibility is very low when you argue like this. The thing is that there are discussions that merit putting in some research effort and there are some that do not. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
On 2009-04-19, Maxwell Lol wrote:
I know nothing, but your credibility is very low.... How can one argue such bizarre logic? nb |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 06:03:01 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote: HeyBub wrote: notbob wrote: On 2009-04-18, HeyBub wrote: As for sniping, you might enjoy the following excerpt from a Lee Childs book: Pure writer's crap. Um, probably not. This same story was posted on a guns newsgroup. Respondents agreed the only area where there might have been a problem was in the beginning when Childs said "The powder in the cartridge exploded in a fraction of a millionth of a second..." Some experts said that was an exaggeration and others said, depending on the powder load, it was just barely possible. If you have experience or information tending to refute the physics in the story, please feel free to share. Otherwise, just enjoy the story. When a story makes me go "whoa, what a load of crap" then I have trouble enjoying it. True. That's about the time I put the book down. As for the comparison with Clancy, the difference there is that Clancy was accurate enough that the professional society for US Naval officers saw merit in his work. Enough that they (US Navy) questioned his sources for classified information. |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:05:06 +0000 (UTC), (Larry
W) wrote: No doubt the military has all kinds of exotic sighting systems, but even on the high seas, a 30 yard shot from a sniper grade M14 shouldn't be beyond the capabilites of the marksman who were helicoptered to the Navy ship. Hell, the snipers in Nam' were getting kills from over 1,000 yards and with the high tech stuff they're using in Iraq, the range, accuracy and lack of recoil is flat incredible.. Check this out: http://www.ftatalk.com/showthread.php?t=278186 mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
O/T: Pirate Rifles
On 2009-04-19, mac davis wrote:
Hell, the snipers in Nam' were getting kills from over 1,000 yards and with the high tech stuff they're using in Iraq, the range, accuracy and lack of recoil is flat incredible.. Check this out: http://www.ftatalk.com/showthread.php?t=278186 We are so enamored with technology that we completely blank out any possibility of a skill requirement. You can have a rifle that could nick the butt-hole off a fly at one mile (eye-roll), but if the shooter can't hold steady, it's no better than a tossed biscuit. Try acquiring a target in ANY boat! I can hit a metal chicken (18" at 200 yds) with a 100 yr old bolt action rifle, but put me in a boat and all bets are off. I think I could do a kill maybe one out of 5 at 30 yds. I doubt even the best SEAL could do better. Jes speculation, but feel free to continue the fantasy. nb nb |
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