Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

I am looking for ideas and examples (with links hopefully) to how
others include a workshop in both their RV and sailboats.

General metalworking and woodworking as the goals.

The examples can be of either type or a combination of both.

Also discussions of having a shop (tools and stock storage) within a
small space and alternative power sources come to mind.

Thanks

TMT

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

RAM³ wrote:


Pneumatic
Impact wrenches
Impact sockets
Die Grinders
Air Brush
Supplies, etc.
Wrenches
Ratchets & Speedhandles
Breaker bars
Sockets
Extensions
Adapters
Box-end
Open-end
Combination
Woodworking
Saws
Screwdrivers
Hammers
Files & Rasps
Chisels
Spade and Forstner bits
Sandpaper
Squares
Filler Putty
Misc. "Stuff"
Metalworking
Hammers [Ball Pein, Drilling, Sledge]
Files
Drill Bits
Cold Chisels
Punches
Carborundum stones
Diamond Hones
"Stuff"


Timely topic for me.

We are trying to equip our sailboat without sinking her at the dock.
That's a pretty decent startling point.

No way to take the shop aboard. Even a hiobby level garage based shop.
No drill press, band saws, chop saw, welding stuff, angle grinders, etc.
There just isn't room or displacement to do Noah's Arc of Tools.

So we do the best we can.

Organizing stuff is the biggest challenge. There is no place to store
everything together, so the tools and materials get spread out.

I found a bunch of small zipper bags (9" long x 2 x 3) that neatly hold
small tools.

Wrenches (SAE and Metric), sockets (1/4" drive, 3/8" - metric and SAE),
drill bits (separated large and small) and driver bits, hex wrenches, etc.
Dorothy got some "fabric paint" at the crafts store and neatly lettered
the bags. These are packed into tool bags - as logically as possible.
It makes finding the tool you need quickly a lot easier. Makes it easier
to re-pack them as well.

Add specialty tools for the engine (29 HP Yanmar diesel and a small diesel
gen set)

Cable cutters that can actually cut up to 1/4" stainless cable and
"BB" chain links.

Come-Alongs A couple of smaller ones and a honkin' heavy duty one.
I think I want another big one specifically for hauling in chain anchor rode.
Use them like nippers to the capstan - like in the days of wooden ships (and
iron men).


ratchet straps - 1-1/2" and 2" strap - in various lengths, but a few extra
long ones that can go all the way around the hull.

"Yankee" screwdriver with extra flat and Phillips blades.

A hand operated drill - (brace?)

Several sizes of fine files for smoothing nicks in aluminum mast or boom.

Multimeters and light bulb style continuity testers.

Power tools are a problem.
In emergencies you might not have power to run them!

So I have two Ryobi battery powered hand drills and 4 batteries.
(on aboard and one at home - but if we go cruising, both will go)

Two (hand powered) wood saws and a hack saw with extra blades.

Line and cable tools.
Fid and rope splicing tools.
Cable clamps for the rigging cables, nicopress tool (big squeeze - not the
little bolt operated one), thimbles, collars, etc.

Epoxy sticks that cure underwater - 1 dozen.

We have no pneumatic tools at all on the boat - yet.
Not sure we will - but time will tell.

If we move her down to the coast, I plan to add a small Honda generator
(~3000 watts) and a tiny Honda gas powered pump - 1" hose (from Northern Tools).

These are portable life insurance.

Even though they are gasoline powered. The outboard on the dinghy is gas too,
so there is already some gasoline aboard. (outside - on the fan tail - with
extinguishers handy!)

Still looking at a Hooka or "super snorkel" set up for working on the
bottom. Gas powered? or Electric? The electric one draws 830 watts
(10.5 amps - 120vac 60 cycle) I think that's the stopper on electric.

On and on, the list grows longer and heavier...

The question, of course, is what will you actually NEED - vs want.
They are quite different.


Richard

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

J. Clarke wrote:
Ed Edelenbos wrote:
"RAM³" wrote in message
m...
Sailboats are a whole 'nother world: far more limited space, far
more
limited weight-carrying capability, a virtual absence of
electricity, and the simple fact that sailboats travel on their
sides...

If it's on it's side, it's either broken or at the hand of a
non-sailor.

As for "limited weight carrying", most of the ones I'd be interested
in carry a big chunk of lead or iron or on a few gold platers depleted
uranium on the bottom.



Doesn't matter at all.

Dorothy's Hunter 38 displaces 16,600 pounds with 6,500 pounds of lead in
the keel

Even that is limited displacement.


Richard

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

Speaking of sailing and shops...

Anybody heard from Glenn Ashmore?
http://www.rutuonline.com/

I've not seen him on RCM for quite some time.

Karl

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
I am looking for ideas and examples (with links hopefully) to how
others include a workshop in both their RV and sailboats.

On the woodworking side, this seems like a great application for the
Festool Multi-function table, or that very expensive Bridge City
precision saw table.

http://www.bridgecitytools.com/Products/In+Production/Jointmaker+Pro
http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/495462/Festool-Multi-function-Table--MFT3

The Bridge City device is almost made for a sailboat.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

"RAM³" wrote in message
0...
"Ed Edelenbos" wrote in rec.crafts.metalworking:



"RAM³" wrote in message
m...

Sailboats are a whole 'nother world: far more limited space, far more
limited weight-carrying capability, a virtual absence of electricity,
and the simple fact that sailboats travel on their sides...


If it's on it's side, it's either broken or at the hand of a
non-sailor.

Ed



Nope!

Only motorsailers under power and sailboats with furled sails will be
upright.

Otherwise the wind pressure against the sails cause the mast(s) to lever
the boat towards the downwind side.

About the only time a sailboat can remain upright while under weigh is on
a
downwind reach - usually with the sails at right angles to the wind and
the
skipper praying that the wind doesn't suddenly increase sharply. grin

FWIW [metal content] that wind-pressure-lever force is what prompted the
invention of the Lead Keel to counterbalance that force...

Most sailboats have a design heel angle. It is usually pretty shallow, at
10-20 degrees. At that angle the waterline is at its most advantageous
(typically at it's longest), the keel is still able to do a good job of
holding lateral movement, and (probably most importantly) the sails are
where they are gong to do the most good... in the air catching wind.

Ed

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
I am looking for ideas and examples (with links hopefully) to how
others include a workshop in both their RV and sailboats.

General metalworking and woodworking as the goals.

The examples can be of either type or a combination of both.

Also discussions of having a shop (tools and stock storage) within a
small space and alternative power sources come to mind.

Thanks

TMT

Maybe not quite what you had in mind but it made me think of this local
guy that has a forge and other equipment in a short narrow boat attached
to his main one, electrics are provided by a diesel genset IIRC in the
workshop boat.

http://www.briangreaves.com/about.htm

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
I am looking for ideas and examples (with links hopefully) to how
others include a workshop in both their RV and sailboats.

General metalworking and woodworking as the goals.

The examples can be of either type or a combination of both.

Also discussions of having a shop (tools and stock storage) within a
small space and alternative power sources come to mind.

Thanks

TMT


In all seriousness, do you think you would have room for a metal working or
wood shop on an RV? You already should have a mechanical shop on board to
keep the RV running and repaired.

RV's, Airplanes and Boats, You are happy the day you buy them and the day
you sell them.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

cavelamb wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
Ed Edelenbos wrote:
"RAM³" wrote in message
m...
Sailboats are a whole 'nother world: far more limited space, far
more
limited weight-carrying capability, a virtual absence of
electricity, and the simple fact that sailboats travel on their
sides...

If it's on it's side, it's either broken or at the hand of a
non-sailor.

As for "limited weight carrying", most of the ones I'd be
interested
in carry a big chunk of lead or iron or on a few gold platers
depleted uranium on the bottom.



Doesn't matter at all.

Dorothy's Hunter 38 displaces 16,600 pounds with 6,500 pounds of
lead
in the keel

Even that is limited displacement.

By that logic an aircraft carrier has "limited dispalcement".


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 07:49:17 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:


"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
I am looking for ideas and examples (with links hopefully) to how
others include a workshop in both their RV and sailboats.

General metalworking and woodworking as the goals.

The examples can be of either type or a combination of both.

Also discussions of having a shop (tools and stock storage) within a
small space and alternative power sources come to mind.

Thanks

TMT


In all seriousness, do you think you would have room for a metal working or
wood shop on an RV? You already should have a mechanical shop on board to
keep the RV running and repaired.

RV's, Airplanes and Boats, You are happy the day you buy them and the day
you sell them.


Early in his career, my cousin heard this from a thrice divorced
surgeon at a medical meeting.

The 3F Rule: If it flies, floats, or f***s, rent it.

Pete Keillor

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

In article
,
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

I am looking for ideas and examples (with links hopefully) to how
others include a workshop in both their RV and sailboats.

General metalworking and woodworking as the goals.

The examples can be of either type or a combination of both.

Also discussions of having a shop (tools and stock storage) within a
small space and alternative power sources come to mind.

Thanks

TMT

Personally I keep a limited amount of tools, but then my rig is
"smaller" (25 ft). I know a (former) co-worker that full-times in a DP,
pulling an enclosed cargo trailer. It contains both his toad (a
micro-car) and all his bench-top tools, lathe, table-saw, etc. They also
use the trailer as a patio

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

"J. Clarke" wrote:

RAM³ wrote:
"Ed Edelenbos" wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking:



"RAM³" wrote in message
m...

Sailboats are a whole 'nother world: far more limited space, far
more limited weight-carrying capability, a virtual absence of
electricity, and the simple fact that sailboats travel on their
sides...


If it's on it's side, it's either broken or at the hand of a
non-sailor.

Ed



Nope!

Only motorsailers under power and sailboats with furled sails will
be
upright.

Otherwise the wind pressure against the sails cause the mast(s) to
lever the boat towards the downwind side.

About the only time a sailboat can remain upright while under weigh
is on a downwind reach - usually with the sails at right angles to
the wind and the skipper praying that the wind doesn't suddenly
increase sharply. grin

FWIW [metal content] that wind-pressure-lever force is what prompted
the invention of the Lead Keel to counterbalance that force...

Heeled a bit is not "on its side" except to a lubber.

Or a machinist.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

"Pete Keillor" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 07:49:17 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:
RV's, Airplanes and Boats, You are happy the day you buy them and the day
you sell them.


Early in his career, my cousin heard this from a thrice divorced
surgeon at a medical meeting.

The 3F Rule: If it flies, floats, or f***s, rent it.

Pete Keillor

My parents purchased 2 RV's. The happiest day in my life was when they got
rid of the last one. Repairs and maintenance is a constant regardless of
how much you use them. I did all the work and that cured me from ever
wanting to own an RV. A good friend that was very mechanically inclined
requested my advise on buying an RV. I simply replied, they are constant
work. He bought an RV and sold it 3 years later and commented that he was
happy to get rid of it, he should not have purchased one.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

cavelamb wrote:

Timely topic for me.

We are trying to equip our sailboat without sinking her at the dock.
That's a pretty decent startling point.

No way to take the shop aboard. Even a hiobby level garage based shop.
No drill press, band saws, chop saw, welding stuff, angle grinders, etc.
There just isn't room or displacement to do Noah's Arc of Tools.

So we do the best we can.

Organizing stuff is the biggest challenge. There is no place to store
everything together, so the tools and materials get spread out.

I found a bunch of small zipper bags (9" long x 2 x 3) that neatly hold
small tools.

Wrenches (SAE and Metric), sockets (1/4" drive, 3/8" - metric and SAE),
drill bits (separated large and small) and driver bits, hex wrenches, etc.
Dorothy got some "fabric paint" at the crafts store and neatly lettered
the bags. These are packed into tool bags - as logically as possible.
It makes finding the tool you need quickly a lot easier. Makes it easier
to re-pack them as well.

Add specialty tools for the engine (29 HP Yanmar diesel and a small diesel
gen set)

Cable cutters that can actually cut up to 1/4" stainless cable and
"BB" chain links.

Come-Alongs A couple of smaller ones and a honkin' heavy duty one.
I think I want another big one specifically for hauling in chain anchor rode.
Use them like nippers to the capstan - like in the days of wooden ships (and
iron men).

ratchet straps - 1-1/2" and 2" strap - in various lengths, but a few extra
long ones that can go all the way around the hull.

"Yankee" screwdriver with extra flat and Phillips blades.

A hand operated drill - (brace?)

Several sizes of fine files for smoothing nicks in aluminum mast or boom.

Multimeters and light bulb style continuity testers.

Power tools are a problem.
In emergencies you might not have power to run them!

So I have two Ryobi battery powered hand drills and 4 batteries.
(on aboard and one at home - but if we go cruising, both will go)

Two (hand powered) wood saws and a hack saw with extra blades.

Line and cable tools.
Fid and rope splicing tools.
Cable clamps for the rigging cables, nicopress tool (big squeeze - not the
little bolt operated one), thimbles, collars, etc.

Epoxy sticks that cure underwater - 1 dozen.

We have no pneumatic tools at all on the boat - yet.
Not sure we will - but time will tell.

If we move her down to the coast, I plan to add a small Honda generator
(~3000 watts) and a tiny Honda gas powered pump - 1" hose (from Northern Tools).

These are portable life insurance.

Even though they are gasoline powered. The outboard on the dinghy is gas too,
so there is already some gasoline aboard. (outside - on the fan tail - with
extinguishers handy!)

Still looking at a Hooka or "super snorkel" set up for working on the
bottom. Gas powered? or Electric? The electric one draws 830 watts
(10.5 amps - 120vac 60 cycle) I think that's the stopper on electric.

On and on, the list grows longer and heavier...

The question, of course, is what will you actually NEED - vs want.
They are quite different.

Richard

First off since I didn't see the original post, are we talking hobby
workshop or fix the boat in the middle of nowhere shop, as they have
quite different requirements.

Second off, on your hookah setup, in the interest of saving space and
weight, I'd suggest you home-brew this one as a combo unit, combining a
small Honda gas engine with both a small water pump and a small oilless
air compressor with filter to feed the hookah. This should save weight
over two separate units. For the hoohah part you just need a suitable
oilless compressor with filter, and a normal SCUBA second stage
regulator on a long hose.

Also, 830W is 6.9A, not 10.5A which is probably starting surge. Either
way, a Honda EU2000i will run that, My EU2000i runs my camper A/C of
similar spec just fine.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

Pete Keillor wrote:

Early in his career, my cousin heard this from a thrice divorced
surgeon at a medical meeting.

The 3F Rule: If it flies, floats, or f***s, rent it.

Yes, and you can always afford to rent a better one than you can afford
to "own".

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

Leon wrote:

"Pete Keillor" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 07:49:17 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:
RV's, Airplanes and Boats, You are happy the day you buy them and the day
you sell them.


Early in his career, my cousin heard this from a thrice divorced
surgeon at a medical meeting.

The 3F Rule: If it flies, floats, or f***s, rent it.

Pete Keillor

My parents purchased 2 RV's. The happiest day in my life was when they got
rid of the last one. Repairs and maintenance is a constant regardless of
how much you use them. I did all the work and that cured me from ever
wanting to own an RV. A good friend that was very mechanically inclined
requested my advise on buying an RV. I simply replied, they are constant
work. He bought an RV and sold it 3 years later and commented that he was
happy to get rid of it, he should not have purchased one.

What kind of RV? I have had a large and well equipped truck camper for a
few years and I still love it. Of course it has a lot less issues than a
camper / RV with running gear will have.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

Ralph E Lindberg wrote:

In article
,
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

I am looking for ideas and examples (with links hopefully) to how
others include a workshop in both their RV and sailboats.

General metalworking and woodworking as the goals.

The examples can be of either type or a combination of both.

Also discussions of having a shop (tools and stock storage) within a
small space and alternative power sources come to mind.

Thanks

TMT

Personally I keep a limited amount of tools, but then my rig is
"smaller" (25 ft). I know a (former) co-worker that full-times in a DP,
pulling an enclosed cargo trailer. It contains both his toad (a
micro-car) and all his bench-top tools, lathe, table-saw, etc. They also
use the trailer as a patio

I have plans on the drawing board for something similar where I'll live
in my truck camper and keep a pretty complete metalworking shop in my
24' enclosed trailer when I go into "hermit mode" on some property I own
as global civilization implodes due to the economic tidy bowl swirl.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

J. Clarke wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
Ed Edelenbos wrote:
"RAM³" wrote in message
m...
Sailboats are a whole 'nother world: far more limited space, far
more
limited weight-carrying capability, a virtual absence of
electricity, and the simple fact that sailboats travel on their
sides...

If it's on it's side, it's either broken or at the hand of a
non-sailor.
As for "limited weight carrying", most of the ones I'd be
interested
in carry a big chunk of lead or iron or on a few gold platers
depleted uranium on the bottom.


Doesn't matter at all.

Dorothy's Hunter 38 displaces 16,600 pounds with 6,500 pounds of
lead
in the keel

Even that is limited displacement.

By that logic an aircraft carrier has "limited dispalcement".



Absolutely!

And every time they up-anchor, they go on water rations.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

Pete C. wrote:
cavelamb wrote:

The question, of course, is what will you actually NEED - vs want.
They are quite different.

Richard

First off since I didn't see the original post, are we talking hobby
workshop or fix the boat in the middle of nowhere shop, as they have
quite different requirements.



I came across that very question while writing the above.

Are you a machinist afloat? You'll need a Navy support vessel to
carry a full machine shop.

Or are you a sailboat with some repair/make capability?


Second off, on your hookah setup, in the interest of saving space and
weight, I'd suggest you home-brew this one as a combo unit, combining a
small Honda gas engine with both a small water pump and a small oilless
air compressor with filter to feed the hookah. This should save weight
over two separate units. For the hoohah part you just need a suitable
oilless compressor with filter, and a normal SCUBA second stage
regulator on a long hose.

These are pretty much off the shelf items - at least at the local Northern Tools
store. Keeping them separate gives the greater flexibility.
The AC/DC den set can make power to run bumps and stuff, while an engine driven
pump can go anywhere anytime - all by itself.

I like the hooka suggestion, Pete.
My only beef with the oil-less compressors is NOISE (huh?).
But a way to compress and store air would lend itself to a home brew hooka.
The store-bought one is priced in Boat Units!

Also, 830W is 6.9A, not 10.5A which is probably starting surge. Either
way, a Honda EU2000i will run that, My EU2000i runs my camper A/C of
similar spec just fine.

I noticed that. Their web specs.

I was thinking about running off of the house batteries - with an inverter.
You couldn't dive without the genset running...

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

Pete C. wrote:
Ralph E Lindberg wrote:
In article
,
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

I am looking for ideas and examples (with links hopefully) to how
others include a workshop in both their RV and sailboats.

General metalworking and woodworking as the goals.

The examples can be of either type or a combination of both.

Also discussions of having a shop (tools and stock storage) within a
small space and alternative power sources come to mind.

Thanks

TMT
Personally I keep a limited amount of tools, but then my rig is
"smaller" (25 ft). I know a (former) co-worker that full-times in a DP,
pulling an enclosed cargo trailer. It contains both his toad (a
micro-car) and all his bench-top tools, lathe, table-saw, etc. They also
use the trailer as a patio

I have plans on the drawing board for something similar where I'll live
in my truck camper and keep a pretty complete metalworking shop in my
24' enclosed trailer when I go into "hermit mode" on some property I own
as global civilization implodes due to the economic tidy bowl swirl.

I built quite a bit of my first airplane that way... :)

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 02:47:04 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

RAM³ wrote:
"Ed Edelenbos" wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking:



"RAM³" wrote in message
m...

Sailboats are a whole 'nother world: far more limited space, far
more limited weight-carrying capability, a virtual absence of
electricity, and the simple fact that sailboats travel on their
sides...


If it's on it's side, it's either broken or at the hand of a
non-sailor.

Ed



Nope!

Only motorsailers under power and sailboats with furled sails will
be
upright.

Otherwise the wind pressure against the sails cause the mast(s) to
lever the boat towards the downwind side.

About the only time a sailboat can remain upright while under weigh
is on a downwind reach - usually with the sails at right angles to
the wind and the skipper praying that the wind doesn't suddenly
increase sharply. grin

FWIW [metal content] that wind-pressure-lever force is what prompted
the invention of the Lead Keel to counterbalance that force...

Heeled a bit is not "on its side" except to a lubber.


Define 'heeled"

Water coming in the scuppers...is ...on its side.

Gunner


"Not so old as to need virgins to excite him,
nor old enough to have the patience to teach one."

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

cavelamb wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
cavelamb wrote:

The question, of course, is what will you actually NEED - vs want.
They are quite different.

Richard

First off since I didn't see the original post, are we talking hobby
workshop or fix the boat in the middle of nowhere shop, as they have
quite different requirements.

I came across that very question while writing the above.

Are you a machinist afloat? You'll need a Navy support vessel to
carry a full machine shop.

Yes, but I think a small lathe/mill combo for someone who builds
miniature engines and the like is viable on a reasonable sized boat.


Or are you a sailboat with some repair/make capability?

Second off, on your hookah setup, in the interest of saving space and
weight, I'd suggest you home-brew this one as a combo unit, combining a
small Honda gas engine with both a small water pump and a small oilless
air compressor with filter to feed the hookah. This should save weight
over two separate units. For the hoohah part you just need a suitable
oilless compressor with filter, and a normal SCUBA second stage
regulator on a long hose.

These are pretty much off the shelf items - at least at the local Northern Tools
store. Keeping them separate gives the greater flexibility.
The AC/DC den set can make power to run bumps and stuff, while an engine driven
pump can go anywhere anytime - all by itself.

I like the hooka suggestion, Pete.
My only beef with the oil-less compressors is NOISE (huh?).
But a way to compress and store air would lend itself to a home brew hooka.
The store-bought one is priced in Boat Units!

Yes, that was my other point, the Brownie's units are $$$. Since a
hookah setup is pretty simple and you're dealing with shallow depths a
homebrew unit isn't that difficult. Noise from the oil-less compressor
isn't an issue when it's powered by a gas engine and you're 15'
underwater working on patching the boat.

I'd suggest including a tether on the end of the hookah line if you're
working out in open water so you can't easily get separated from the
boat. Getting separated from the hookah at 15' isn't that big a deal (I
presume you have a SCUBA cert?), but getting separated from the boat in
the middle of nowhere certainly is.


Also, 830W is 6.9A, not 10.5A which is probably starting surge. Either
way, a Honda EU2000i will run that, My EU2000i runs my camper A/C of
similar spec just fine.

I noticed that. Their web specs.

I was thinking about running off of the house batteries - with an inverter.
You couldn't dive without the genset running...

You could always get a real HP SCUBA compressor, but those are $$$ as
well. I actually just got one myself, but it's not exactly portable. It
needs and overhaul and since it's currently 15hp electric drive I think
I'll repower it with a surplus Kubota diesel to make it more convenient.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

cavelamb wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
Ed Edelenbos wrote:
"RAM³" wrote in message
m...
Sailboats are a whole 'nother world: far more limited space,
far
more
limited weight-carrying capability, a virtual absence of
electricity, and the simple fact that sailboats travel on their
sides...

If it's on it's side, it's either broken or at the hand of a
non-sailor.
As for "limited weight carrying", most of the ones I'd be
interested
in carry a big chunk of lead or iron or on a few gold platers
depleted uranium on the bottom.


Doesn't matter at all.

Dorothy's Hunter 38 displaces 16,600 pounds with 6,500 pounds of
lead
in the keel

Even that is limited displacement.

By that logic an aircraft carrier has "limited dispalcement".



Absolutely!

And every time they up-anchor, they go on water rations.

The water supply on a warship is not limited by displacement, it is
limited by the capacity of the main condenser.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

Pete C. wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
The question, of course, is what will you actually NEED - vs want.
They are quite different.

Richard
First off since I didn't see the original post, are we talking hobby
workshop or fix the boat in the middle of nowhere shop, as they have
quite different requirements.
I came across that very question while writing the above.

Are you a machinist afloat? You'll need a Navy support vessel to
carry a full machine shop.

Yes, but I think a small lathe/mill combo for someone who builds
miniature engines and the like is viable on a reasonable sized boat.

Or are you a sailboat with some repair/make capability?

Second off, on your hookah setup, in the interest of saving space and
weight, I'd suggest you home-brew this one as a combo unit, combining a
small Honda gas engine with both a small water pump and a small oilless
air compressor with filter to feed the hookah. This should save weight
over two separate units. For the hoohah part you just need a suitable
oilless compressor with filter, and a normal SCUBA second stage
regulator on a long hose.
These are pretty much off the shelf items - at least at the local Northern Tools
store. Keeping them separate gives the greater flexibility.
The AC/DC den set can make power to run bumps and stuff, while an engine driven
pump can go anywhere anytime - all by itself.

I like the hooka suggestion, Pete.
My only beef with the oil-less compressors is NOISE (huh?).
But a way to compress and store air would lend itself to a home brew hooka.
The store-bought one is priced in Boat Units!

Yes, that was my other point, the Brownie's units are $$$. Since a
hookah setup is pretty simple and you're dealing with shallow depths a
homebrew unit isn't that difficult. Noise from the oil-less compressor
isn't an issue when it's powered by a gas engine and you're 15'
underwater working on patching the boat.


Anybody still aboard would go deaf quickly and painfully!


I'd suggest including a tether on the end of the hookah line if you're
working out in open water so you can't easily get separated from the
boat. Getting separated from the hookah at 15' isn't that big a deal (I
presume you have a SCUBA cert?), but getting separated from the boat in
the middle of nowhere certainly is.


When I was a kid. Haven't seen it in 40 years tho.

The tether is a given. We use them on deck too.

If you would like a good sailing adventure read, pick up Hank Searls "Overboard"
form way back in the mid '70s.

Even the best tether won't help if you unclip it!


Also, 830W is 6.9A, not 10.5A which is probably starting surge. Either
way, a Honda EU2000i will run that, My EU2000i runs my camper A/C of
similar spec just fine.
I noticed that. Their web specs.

I was thinking about running off of the house batteries - with an inverter.
You couldn't dive without the genset running...

You could always get a real HP SCUBA compressor, but those are $$$ as
well. I actually just got one myself, but it's not exactly portable. It
needs and overhaul and since it's currently 15hp electric drive I think
I'll repower it with a surplus Kubota diesel to make it more convenient.

In my wildest dreams I can't imagine getting something like that up and
down the companionway hatch!

I wish there were a way to add a compressor to the genset.
It is water cooled, and very quiet, but it's pretty much a sealed up unit.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

Leon wrote:

My parents purchased 2 RV's. The happiest day in my life was when they got
rid of the last one.

I'm still plenty happy as an aircraft owner. I have a fantastic
partner, so everything except fuel is 1/2 price! ;^)

With the _right_ folks, items like boats, airplanes, cabins, etc... can
make lots more sense with more than one owner.

When I speadsheet compare all of my partnership ownership expenses over
the last four years, with HONEST rental expenses, I'm still happy. Many
renters fly either woefully underinsured, or without insurance at all.
You really have to include an fairly valued renter's insurance policy in
a cost comparison. Many people fail to do this.

I would have paid a tiny bit less as a renter, within a few bucks an
hour, but some of my hourly costs build equity, and I have fantastic
access to a very clean, safe, and available aircraft. I see it as a
good value. Without the partner, it wouldn't have been close.

It's worked out so well, we purchased our second aircraft together last
month.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

cavelamb wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
The question, of course, is what will you actually NEED - vs want.
They are quite different.

Richard
First off since I didn't see the original post, are we talking hobby
workshop or fix the boat in the middle of nowhere shop, as they have
quite different requirements.
I came across that very question while writing the above.

Are you a machinist afloat? You'll need a Navy support vessel to
carry a full machine shop.

Yes, but I think a small lathe/mill combo for someone who builds
miniature engines and the like is viable on a reasonable sized boat.

Or are you a sailboat with some repair/make capability?

Second off, on your hookah setup, in the interest of saving space and
weight, I'd suggest you home-brew this one as a combo unit, combining a
small Honda gas engine with both a small water pump and a small oilless
air compressor with filter to feed the hookah. This should save weight
over two separate units. For the hoohah part you just need a suitable
oilless compressor with filter, and a normal SCUBA second stage
regulator on a long hose.
These are pretty much off the shelf items - at least at the local Northern Tools
store. Keeping them separate gives the greater flexibility.
The AC/DC den set can make power to run bumps and stuff, while an engine driven
pump can go anywhere anytime - all by itself.

I like the hooka suggestion, Pete.
My only beef with the oil-less compressors is NOISE (huh?).
But a way to compress and store air would lend itself to a home brew hooka.
The store-bought one is priced in Boat Units!

Yes, that was my other point, the Brownie's units are $$$. Since a
hookah setup is pretty simple and you're dealing with shallow depths a
homebrew unit isn't that difficult. Noise from the oil-less compressor
isn't an issue when it's powered by a gas engine and you're 15'
underwater working on patching the boat.

Anybody still aboard would go deaf quickly and painfully!

The noise you are thinking of is not a function of an oil-less
compressor, it is a function of cheap, small high speed oil-less
compressors. An oil lubed compressor isn't quiet either when turned at
those speeds. Either way, with it powered by a gas engine, most noise
will be from the engine. At any rate a $5 pair of shooting muffs will
take care of the problem.


I'd suggest including a tether on the end of the hookah line if you're
working out in open water so you can't easily get separated from the
boat. Getting separated from the hookah at 15' isn't that big a deal (I
presume you have a SCUBA cert?), but getting separated from the boat in
the middle of nowhere certainly is.

When I was a kid. Haven't seen it in 40 years tho.

The tether is a given. We use them on deck too.

If you would like a good sailing adventure read, pick up Hank Searls "Overboard"
form way back in the mid '70s.

Even the best tether won't help if you unclip it!

Guess you also have to tether a scooter to you, or perhaps a waterproof
remote control for the boat...


Also, 830W is 6.9A, not 10.5A which is probably starting surge. Either
way, a Honda EU2000i will run that, My EU2000i runs my camper A/C of
similar spec just fine.
I noticed that. Their web specs.

I was thinking about running off of the house batteries - with an inverter.
You couldn't dive without the genset running...

You could always get a real HP SCUBA compressor, but those are $$$ as
well. I actually just got one myself, but it's not exactly portable. It
needs and overhaul and since it's currently 15hp electric drive I think
I'll repower it with a surplus Kubota diesel to make it more convenient.

In my wildest dreams I can't imagine getting something like that up and
down the companionway hatch!

No, it it goes on a boat it will be going on a relatively large boat.


I wish there were a way to add a compressor to the genset.
It is water cooled, and very quiet, but it's pretty much a sealed up unit.

What brand / model? Link?

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 02:47:04 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

RAM³ wrote:
"Ed Edelenbos" wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking:



"RAM³" wrote in message
m...

Sailboats are a whole 'nother world: far more limited space, far
more limited weight-carrying capability, a virtual absence of
electricity, and the simple fact that sailboats travel on their
sides...


If it's on it's side, it's either broken or at the hand of a
non-sailor.

Ed



Nope!

Only motorsailers under power and sailboats with furled sails will
be
upright.

Otherwise the wind pressure against the sails cause the mast(s) to
lever the boat towards the downwind side.

About the only time a sailboat can remain upright while under
weigh
is on a downwind reach - usually with the sails at right angles to
the wind and the skipper praying that the wind doesn't suddenly
increase sharply. grin

FWIW [metal content] that wind-pressure-lever force is what
prompted
the invention of the Lead Keel to counterbalance that force...

Heeled a bit is not "on its side" except to a lubber.


Define 'heeled"

Water coming in the scuppers...is ...on its side.

Depends on how much freeboard it has.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

--IIRC J. Baldwin, from the old Zine Whole Earth Review, wrote a
book on small shops; he had one in a van he used to travel around.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Do us a favor and rescue
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : a doggie or three...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

I wish there were a way to add a compressor to the genset.
It is water cooled, and very quiet, but it's pretty much a sealed up unit.

What brand / model? Link?


Fischer Panda® 4.0-kW

http://www.fischerpanda.com/marine/ac_4200.htm

Will get you a brochure and engineering drawings

http://www.fischerpanda.com/Manuals/...n%20Manual.pdf

As you can see, it might be possible to add another pulley to the front end,
but there just isn't much room around the pack in the boat.

It's mounted in the starboard quarter under the cockpit seat.
To starboard it the hull, and to port is the aft cabin side wall.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

cavelamb wrote:

I wish there were a way to add a compressor to the genset.
It is water cooled, and very quiet, but it's pretty much a sealed up unit.

What brand / model? Link?

Fischer Panda® 4.0-kW

http://www.fischerpanda.com/marine/ac_4200.htm

Will get you a brochure and engineering drawings

http://www.fischerpanda.com/Manuals/...n%20Manual.pdf

As you can see, it might be possible to add another pulley to the front end,
but there just isn't much room around the pack in the boat.

It's mounted in the starboard quarter under the cockpit seat.
To starboard it the hull, and to port is the aft cabin side wall.

Nice little unit. If you have about a foot of clearance in the front,
which it seems you would since that's where the connections are, I think
you could pull it off. small offset and an electric clutch on the
compressor. Need to of course plumb in the fresh air intake from topside
too.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 16:56:35 -0800, Too_Many_Tools wrote:

I am looking for ideas and examples (with links hopefully) to how others
include a workshop in both their RV and sailboats.

General metalworking and woodworking as the goals.


You might want to take a look at Proxxon tools, also sold relabeled by
Micro-Mart, and others of that ilk. If those are too small, you can do a
lot of woodworking with a small scroll saw.

Other than that, you're probably going to have to use a lot of hand tools.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...


What kind of RV? I have had a large and well equipped truck camper for a
few years and I still love it. Of course it has a lot less issues than a
camper / RV with running gear will have.


Full blown dedicated RV's, Full standing up room through out the living
room, kitchen, bedroom, bathroom, and laundry and cab area.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
My parents purchased 2 RV's. The happiest day in my life was when they
got rid of the last one.

I'm still plenty happy as an aircraft owner. I have a fantastic partner,
so everything except fuel is 1/2 price! ;^)

Than is good for both if both use it equally. My friend co-owned an
airplane in the early to late mid 80's. His partner flew the plane much
more than he did. Seemed my friend was spending a lot of money and not
flying so much although he was going out for 3 or 4 hours weekly at a
minimum. He ended up selling his half and purchasing another all by
himself.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

Leon wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...


What kind of RV? I have had a large and well equipped truck camper for a
few years and I still love it. Of course it has a lot less issues than a
camper / RV with running gear will have.

Full blown dedicated RV's, Full standing up room through out the living
room, kitchen, bedroom, bathroom, and laundry and cab area.

FYI, a truck camper is a full blown dedicated RV, but due to the lack of
running gear it has a lot less maintenance issues. My truck camper has a
bathroom with shower, kitchen with stove / oven, microwave, double basin
sink, A/C, furnace, refrigerator, etc. All it lacks is standup headroom
in the bed area.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

Leon wrote:

Than is good for both if both use it equally. My friend co-owned an
airplane in the early to late mid 80's. His partner flew the plane much
more than he did. Seemed my friend was spending a lot of money and not
flying so much although he was going out for 3 or 4 hours weekly at a
minimum. He ended up selling his half and purchasing another all by
himself.

That can happen if the partership isn't set up well. My partner does
fly about 60-80 hours a year more than I do, as he's 5 minutes from the
airport, and he does 2-3 Connecticut to Texas trips each year. Part of
our agreement includes him paying for the storage, as I drive farther.

We bill EVERYTHING hourly, so I don't care.

This includes an engine rebuild and major maintenance reserve,
insurance, taxes, etc... Also, the longer the trip, the better the fuel
mileage, as the airplane spends a lot more time fully leaned out at
altitude. About the worst consumer of fuel per hour is touch and
recurrent check rides.

We knew each other before the plane, and both of us have been in
business partnerships. We sat down and pre-determined every possible
way we could part ways, and set the resolutions to paper in a legal
document. Lots of people don't want to do this, but it's really
important. If you can't deal with bad endings up front, they'll be
worse down the road. Our agreement covers everything from one of us
destroying the aircraft, and dying in the process, to one of us not
being able to make a payment, to divorce, to forced relocation.

My plane partner is also a partner in a very successful bicycle shop,
and he owns a boat in a partnership with another guy.

The bottom line are the people involved and the willingness to get by
all the possible negative outcomes up front.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

Pete C. wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
I wish there were a way to add a compressor to the genset.
It is water cooled, and very quiet, but it's pretty much a sealed up unit.
What brand / model? Link?
Fischer Panda® 4.0-kW

http://www.fischerpanda.com/marine/ac_4200.htm

Will get you a brochure and engineering drawings

http://www.fischerpanda.com/Manuals/...n%20Manual.pdf

As you can see, it might be possible to add another pulley to the front end,
but there just isn't much room around the pack in the boat.

It's mounted in the starboard quarter under the cockpit seat.
To starboard it the hull, and to port is the aft cabin side wall.

Nice little unit. If you have about a foot of clearance in the front,
which it seems you would since that's where the connections are, I think
you could pull it off. small offset and an electric clutch on the
compressor. Need to of course plumb in the fresh air intake from topside
too.

Maybe - I'll take a peek first chance I get.
I haven't had the cover off of it.
It would need to have a now cover made for it to include any additions.
and it has to come out through the cockpit seat hatch.
That's the only way in or out.
It would be real nice to have compressed air available.

BTW, what is the minimum pressure required for a single hose SCUBA
regulator. I seem to recall that a minimum pressure was required.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 16:56:35 -0800, Too_Many_Tools wrote:

I am looking for ideas and examples (with links hopefully) to how others
include a workshop in both their RV and sailboats.

General metalworking and woodworking as the goals.


You might want to take a look at Proxxon tools, also sold relabeled by
Micro-Mart, and others of that ilk. If those are too small, you can do a
lot of woodworking with a small scroll saw.

Other than that, you're probably going to have to use a lot of hand tools.

For me the bottom line is simply this...

When we are out sailing, I'm a sailor - full time.

At anchor, if I need something to keep my hands busy I'll build
a ship in a bottle.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

cavelamb wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
I wish there were a way to add a compressor to the genset.
It is water cooled, and very quiet, but it's pretty much a sealed up unit.
What brand / model? Link?
Fischer Panda® 4.0-kW

http://www.fischerpanda.com/marine/ac_4200.htm

Will get you a brochure and engineering drawings

http://www.fischerpanda.com/Manuals/...n%20Manual.pdf

As you can see, it might be possible to add another pulley to the front end,
but there just isn't much room around the pack in the boat.

It's mounted in the starboard quarter under the cockpit seat.
To starboard it the hull, and to port is the aft cabin side wall.

Nice little unit. If you have about a foot of clearance in the front,
which it seems you would since that's where the connections are, I think
you could pull it off. small offset and an electric clutch on the
compressor. Need to of course plumb in the fresh air intake from topside
too.

Maybe - I'll take a peek first chance I get.
I haven't had the cover off of it.
It would need to have a now cover made for it to include any additions.

I think you could just make the compressor mounting plate replace a
section of the cover in front so with a cutout the existing cover could
drop in place. The pic on their custom generator page looks like it has
a hydraulic pump hanging off the front outside the sound enclosure. I'd
think the same type of setup with the mounting plate having the
compressor on the outside and the electric clutch pulley on the inside.

and it has to come out through the cockpit seat hatch.
That's the only way in or out.
It would be real nice to have compressed air available.

BTW, what is the minimum pressure required for a single hose SCUBA
regulator. I seem to recall that a minimum pressure was required.

140 PSI is the normal pressure feeding the second stage for normal
diving. You can get away with less if you aren't going very deep. One of
the little 5 or 10 gal portable air tanks would make a good receiver
that you could fit wherever it's convenient. With an oil-less
compressor, low pressure and fresh air intake from a good location you
won't need anything exotic for filtering, just the basics.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

Too_Many_Tools writes:

I am looking for ideas and examples (with links hopefully) to how
others include a workshop in both their RV and sailboats.

I admire anyone who can sail or work metal. If anyone is able to do both
at the same time, then I am in awe.

Workshops for RVs and Sailboats
 

On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 00:17:14 -0600, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Too_Many_Tools writes:

I am looking for ideas and examples (with links hopefully) to how
others include a workshop in both their RV and sailboats.

I admire anyone who can sail or work metal. If anyone is able to do both
at the same time, then I am in awe.


I have both sail boats and machine tools....Im in awe of anyone who can
find time to use both.

Gunner

"Not so old as to need virgins to excite him,
nor old enough to have the patience to teach one."