I've got two Panasonic EY6407 12V Ni-MH cordless drills, five EV9200
12V 3.0 ah
batteries and THREE EY0230 7.2-15.6V chargers. The drills were bought
three years apart 2000 and 2003 each with a charger. The third charger
was bought in 2005.

All three chargers appear to have croaked - at the same time and I've
now got five dead battery packs.

They were all plugged into outlets on two different 110VAC circuits in a
branch breaker box fed from the main breaker box's 30A 220V breaker.
One leg of that 30A 220V breaker wasn't properly seated on it's bus bar
when it was installed by a licensed electrician and inspected by a
county electrical inspector. That breaker has not tripped since it was
installed in 1999.

About three months ago, the 110V outlets for my JET mini/midi lathe
started
acting up - variable speed changing speed without my touching its
controls, 40 Watt fluorescent task lites flickering - then the quad
outlet went dead.

Backing up checking for presents of power - at upstream 110V outlets,
then to legs on the breaker on that circuit breaker and finally back to
the main breaker box.

When that turned no power back to the main breaker box I pulled the 30A
220V breaker. One leg on the breaker, and its contact on a bus bar were
visibly burned. Turns out a piece of the plastic case on the back of
the breaker apparently broke when the breaker was installed - and kept
one leg of the breaker from fully seating properly on the bus bar.

So I break out the VOM, plug a charger in and start reading voltage
between the 5 contacts labeled S, +, K, -, -
Black lead on first contact, Red on the Second contact

S to + -0.08
S to K +0.25
S to - -0.25
S to - 0.00

+ to S -0.06
+ to K -0.32
+ to - -0.34
+ to - 0.00

K to S 0.00
K to + +0.24
K to - -0.01
K to - +0.20

- to S +0.20
- to + +0.22
- to K 0.00
- to - +0.19

- to S 0.00
- to + 0.00
- to K 0.00
- to - 0.00

Get no lights on the charger when it's plugged into a verified
hot
110V outlet, no lights when a battery is installed for charging.

Can't get into the charger case because they used star screws with the
a "finger" in the middle. I've got a bit that would fit the screws -
but -
they buried the screws at the bottom of an inch and a quarter hole.

HELP!

Did the breaker problem fry all three chargers?

You'd think they'd put in some type of circuit protector in these
puppies.

charlie b

"charlieb" wrote in message
...
Snip


Get no lights on the charger when it's plugged into a verified
hot
110V outlet, no lights when a battery is installed for charging.

Can't get into the charger case because they used star screws with the
a "finger" in the middle. I've got a bit that would fit the screws -
but -
they buried the screws at the bottom of an inch and a quarter hole.

You can get than bit, in a small set of bits, from Northern Tool.




HELP!

Did the breaker problem fry all three chargers?

You'd think they'd put in some type of circuit protector in these
puppies.


I would bet you would find a burnt diode or the like in there.

Well after using the VOM on the charger and getting all the readings
between
pairs of the 5 contacts on the charger, left it plugged in and put a
battery
in it just to keep them together. Today I grabbed the charger and
battery
to take them over to the local Panasonic service outfit - conveniently
about
a half mile from home. Just for fun I popped the battery in the drill
and
pulled the trigger. SURPRISE - full power! Guess it's The Witness
Effect
(things screw up - until there's an additional observer, in which case
they
behave properly - until the witness leaves.

So NOW I'm wondering if I've got an electrical problem in one or more
electrical runs in my shop. The little 3 prong plug in thing with the
two
orange lights and one red one says the outlet the now working charger
was plugged into is fine. The little flashlite sized tester with the
small
"paddle" on the end lights up when the paddle is placed close to or in
contact with the Black wire to the outlet, and when inserted into the
longer slot in the outlet - and indicates that 110/120 Vac is present.

If I had hair I'd be beginning to pull it out at this point. I took,
and passed
EE98 - Circuit Analysis and I even remember that RMS stands for Root
Mean Squared and know the difference between a half wave and a full
wave rectifier - theory. Give me something electrical that stops
working
and I'm screwed. I guess I skipped the Applied Circuit Analysis
lecture.

charlie b

charlieb wrote:
Well after using the VOM on the charger and getting all the readings
between
pairs of the 5 contacts on the charger, left it plugged in and put a
battery
in it just to keep them together. Today I grabbed the charger and
battery
to take them over to the local Panasonic service outfit - conveniently
about
a half mile from home. Just for fun I popped the battery in the drill
and
pulled the trigger. SURPRISE - full power! Guess it's The Witness
Effect
(things screw up - until there's an additional observer, in which case
they
behave properly - until the witness leaves.

So NOW I'm wondering if I've got an electrical problem in one or more
electrical runs in my shop. The little 3 prong plug in thing with the
two
orange lights and one red one says the outlet the now working charger
was plugged into is fine. The little flashlite sized tester with the
small
"paddle" on the end lights up when the paddle is placed close to or in
contact with the Black wire to the outlet, and when inserted into the
longer slot in the outlet - and indicates that 110/120 Vac is present.

If I had hair I'd be beginning to pull it out at this point. I took,
and passed
EE98 - Circuit Analysis and I even remember that RMS stands for Root
Mean Squared and know the difference between a half wave and a full
wave rectifier - theory. Give me something electrical that stops
working
and I'm screwed. I guess I skipped the Applied Circuit Analysis
lecture.

charlie b

There is, of course, the BTS or Broken Tv Syndrome. This holds that any
TV will give out snow, blurs, diagonal lines, or even blackness until
the repair person shows up. At this time, the TV will work even better
than when new.
whine,
jo4hn

On Nov 27, 9:53*am, jo4hn wrote:
charlieb wrote:
Well after using the VOM on the charger and getting all the readings
between
pairs of the 5 contacts on the charger, left it plugged in and put a
battery
in it just to keep them together. *Today I grabbed the charger and
battery
to take them over to the local Panasonic service outfit - conveniently
about
a half mile from home. *Just for fun I popped the battery in the drill
and
pulled the trigger. *SURPRISE - full power! *Guess it's The Witness
Effect
(things screw up - until there's an additional observer, in which case
they
behave properly - until the witness leaves.

So NOW I'm wondering if I've got an electrical problem in one or more
electrical runs in my shop. *The little 3 prong plug in thing with the
two
orange lights and one red one says the outlet the now working charger
was plugged into is fine. *The little flashlite sized tester with the
small
"paddle" on the end lights up when the paddle is placed close to or in
contact with the Black wire to the outlet, and when inserted into the
longer slot in the outlet - and indicates that 110/120 Vac is present.

If I had hair I'd be beginning to pull it out at this point. *I took,
and passed
EE98 - Circuit Analysis and I even remember that RMS stands for Root
Mean Squared and know the difference between a half wave and a full
wave rectifier - theory. *Give me something electrical that stops
working
and I'm screwed. *I guess I skipped the Applied Circuit Analysis
lecture.

charlie b

There is, of course, the BTS or Broken Tv Syndrome. *This holds that any
TV will give out snow, blurs, diagonal lines, or even blackness until
the repair person shows up. *At this time, the TV will work even better
than when new.
* * * * whine,
* * * * jo4hn

Step away from that coffee machine, jo4hn... sloooowly step away...

jo4hn wrote:

There is, of course, the BTS or Broken Tv Syndrome. This holds that any
TV will give out snow, blurs, diagonal lines, or even blackness until
the repair person shows up. At this time, the TV will work even better
than when new.
whine,
jo4hn

I know that syndrome!

All summer, my airplane was in and out of a radio shop for a
navigational instrument that would read 30 degrees off.

Every time we'd fly it to the shop, it would perform flawlessly. On the
way back from the shop, it would fail again. _5_ times it did this.

It _knew_ where we were going, like a dog to the vet...

B A R R Y wrote:
jo4hn wrote:

There is, of course, the BTS or Broken Tv Syndrome. This holds
that
any TV will give out snow, blurs, diagonal lines, or even blackness
until the repair person shows up. At this time, the TV will work
even better than when new.
whine,
jo4hn

I know that syndrome!

All summer, my airplane was in and out of a radio shop for a
navigational instrument that would read 30 degrees off.

Every time we'd fly it to the shop, it would perform flawlessly. On
the way back from the shop, it would fail again. _5_ times it did
this.

It _knew_ where we were going, like a dog to the vet...

Did you ever get it fixed? If not then you might want to try it on
different headings and note the error and see if it is something
systematic.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:

Did you ever get it fixed? If not then you might want to try it on
different headings and note the error and see if it is something
systematic.

Yup. It was a high resistance connection between a NAV radio and a VOR
CDI display, in the CDI selection ring. It was always exactly 30
degrees off from the other VOR receiver and the VOR display derived from
GPS. One night we flew circles around a VOR, and did approach after
approach with it. When the problem appeared, it was always exactly 30
degrees.

This was our NAV1, which is also our glide scope receiver used for ILS.
Since ILS signals don't use the ring, it worked fine on an ILS or
localizer, just not with a VOR.

One night last month, right after picking the plane up from the radio
shop, I shot a perfect localizer practice approach to Brainard, went
missed and went around to do the VOR approach. It was dead calm, so
there was very little wind correction angle required on the localizer
beam.

Bradley vectored me south past the Hartford VOR (which is actually in
the S. Glastonbury / Portland / East Hampton corner) for the approach,
and I though it weird that he sent me over to Brainard tower without me
being on course. I lined up the needles and continued the approach. My
safety pilot, who could see out the windows, was figeting. The VOR
problem had unknowingly reappeared. Just as my safety pilot told me not
to descend, the tower asked me if I was planning on landing at Brainard,
or the Buckland Hills Mall. G

We went missed and headed back to the VOR. I was actually able to fly
holds off the Hartford VOR, just all courses were 30 degrees off. I
then flew down to Madison VOR and did the same, with the same result. I
could fly perfect race track holds, with the breadcrumbs on the GPS
screen exactly 30 degrees from where the instrument said I was. Trying
to fly 360 / 180 on a dead calm night, I ended up with 030 and 210,
which is why I was lined up for the mall earlier.

Luckily, we use VIP Avionics at Brainard. They're really good about not
charging much for problems they can't duplicate. They finally nailed it
about 10 days ago.

I swear the thing knew whenever it was headed to the shop, though!

"B A R R Y" wrote

Luckily, we use VIP Avionics at Brainard. They're really good about not
charging much for problems they can't duplicate. They finally nailed it
about 10 days ago.

Glad you got it fixed. My wife had a car for awhile that had a persistent
problem that could not be fixed. The mechanic we went to just opened up his
shop and was very upset that he could not find the problem. So he worked on
the car again and again at no charge until he found the problem. It took
seven or eight times before he got it fixed.

Soooo......, my wife went to work in the kitchen and made cookies, tamales,
etc, etc. Then she had me run the goodies up to the shop. They were always
happy to see me coming!

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
shop and was very upset that he could not find the problem. So he worked
on
the car again and again at no charge until he found the problem. It took
seven or eight times before he got it fixed.

That's the type of mechanic you want to find.

Soooo......, my wife went to work in the kitchen and made cookies,
tamales,
etc, etc. Then she had me run the goodies up to the shop. They were always
happy to see me coming!

And, that's how you keep him.

Man did this one head off on a tangent about The Witness Effect.

Back to the original problem and questions about the chargers.

I'm hoping that the problem was caused by a voltage spike when
one leg of the 30 amp 220V breaker contact arced to the bus
bar and that just a diode went - and maybe even the LEDs that
let you now the damn thing IS charging. Reaching for a charged
battery only to find it isn't in fact charged is kind of a PITA,
especially when you've got only a couple more hinge screws to
drive or holes to drill.

With luck, when I call the repair guy it'll be something "inexpensive"
(read about or less than HALF of the price of a new charger).
Wishful thinking on my part.

IF he solves the problem - would it be tacky to ask for the security
star head screw bit size and ask if I can buy the parts to fix my
other two chargers? Or maybe ask for a Bulk Price and have all
of them checked out and repaired?

And I guess it would be prudent to check the circuitS they'll be
plugged into to avoid a REPEAT. I HATE making the same mistake
TWICE.

charlie b