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#1
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
No conjecture, please.
Client is considering using "plyboo", or "plyboo pure" for a new kitchen cabinet job. Any woodorker here used it, touched it, cut it, glued it, stained, or otherwise finished it? Any experience with this material welcome. Thanks ... -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#2
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
Swingman wrote:
No conjecture, please. Client is considering using "plyboo", or "plyboo pure" for a new kitchen cabinet job. Any woodorker here used it, touched it, cut it, glued it, stained, or otherwise finished it? Any experience with this material welcome. Not any direct but there was a fairly extensive article/discussion on the use advantages/disadvantages in FHB within the year that might be informative... -- |
#3
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
No experience, but here is some info:
http://www.plyboo.com/index.php?opti...7&It emid=218 I didn't even know it existed.... Swingman wrote: No conjecture, please. Client is considering using "plyboo", or "plyboo pure" for a new kitchen cabinet job. Any woodorker here used it, touched it, cut it, glued it, stained, or otherwise finished it? Any experience with this material welcome. Thanks ... |
#4
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
"Pat Barber" wrote
No experience, but here is some info: http://www.plyboo.com/index.php?opti...7&It emid=218 I didn't even know it existed.... Even Coonasses got links, cher! No one I know has even touched or seen the stuff, and I was hoping to find someone who had used it on a project. The client is very eco/conservation minded and is adamant about using something "green" for the material in her kitchen project. One of the issues of likeminded folks with regard to interior materials seems to be the formaldehyde used in the glue during the manufacturing process. All data I've found thus far indicates that any exposure is only of concern to the workers during the plywood manufacturing process, and that very slight. My initial point was that "plyboo", which is likely manufactured the same way (especially in China where this stuff comes from), would have the same risks, but that has now apparently been addressed with a product labeled "plyboo pure". While this would seem to be an ideal material for the required spec, I can't, in good conscious, put my blessing on something without knowing how well it may stand up to the intended task. The ads/info sheets, etc. all have the blurb (regarding the glue used in manufacture) "no added formaldehyde", which is like saying "no added sugar", which doesn't necessarily mean there is none, or how much, of either. Some are also touted as being "urea-formaldehyde free", but, from what I can determine, all this stuff is "Made in China" and we've seen what that gets you with regard to the veracity of ingredients. In short, and needless to say, I'm skeptical of ANY new materials on $60K projects with "something not added" to the glue that holds the damn material together. Even though there is obviously no "test of time" available with a relatively new product, I was hoping some wrecker had firsthand experience/use with the material, and that use/impression could provide some clues as to whether its suitability is OK to assume in this particular case. That said, I suppose my other option is just to tout the "green" aspects of a good cabinet grade plywood. .... hell, I'm trying! -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#5
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
"Swingman" wrote That said, I suppose my other option is just to tout the "green" aspects of a good cabinet grade plywood. Two suggestions. The first is to put something together that indicates china produced products are not all that green, regardless of what the marketing sheet say. I have a hard trusting a system that allowed melamine to be added to milk. The other is to use more "traditional" green products. Part of being green is not using glues that outgas. Isn't applyply from Denmark? the gold standard for an outgas free plywood? |
#6
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
"Lee Michaels" wrote in message ... "Swingman" wrote That said, I suppose my other option is just to tout the "green" aspects of a good cabinet grade plywood. Two suggestions. The first is to put something together that indicates china produced products are not all that green, regardless of what the marketing sheet say. I have a hard trusting a system that allowed melamine to be added to milk. The other is to use more "traditional" green products. Part of being green is not using glues that outgas. Isn't applyply from Denmark? the gold standard for an outgas free plywood? Thanks, all arguments above already craftily applied. This attempt is to find someone who has used the stuff -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#7
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
Subject
About 5-7 years ago here in SoCal, plywood from China was relatively new and known for TWO(2) things: 1) Low Price 2) Problems Maybe things have changed, but I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig in Houston to verify that change. YMMV Lew |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
Swingman wrote:
.... This attempt is to find someone who has used the stuff As noted, all I have is the experience/impressions recounted in FHB article on using it. I wasn't muchly interested so remember little -- do recall it was used in the particular project for precisely the same reason(s) but don't recall anything about the adhesive debate specifically mentioned. AFAICR(emember), the guy liked the material itself but don't the finishing used can't recall. I asked one of the two locals here when I ran into him at the donut shop a couple hours ago--he's not had any call for it, so no input there, either, sorry. -- |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
"dpb" wrote
I asked one of the two locals here when I ran into him at the donut shop a couple hours ago--he's not had any call for it, so no input there, either, sorry. Thanks ... I do appreciate your effort. Mighty nice of you. The saving grace ... One thing I've learned when dealing with customers and green building materials the last few years is how you can gauge their commitment to same by how long it takes them to utter the fatal, to the concept, words: "Can we find something a bit cheaper?" Just got off the phone with a supplier in CA who sells a urea-formaldehyde free, bamboo plywood like the customer wants ... $290/sheet for 3/4" x 4' x 8', plus shipping, and it weighs in at +/- 85lb a sheet. We'll see .... eg -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
"Lew Hodgett" wrote About 5-7 years ago here in SoCal, plywood from China was relatively new and known for TWO(2) things: 1) Low Price 2) Problems Maybe things have changed, but I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig in Houston to verify that change. LOL ... what I been thinking. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#11
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
Swingman wrote:
.... Thanks ... I do appreciate your effort. Mighty nice of you. The saving grace ... One thing I've learned when dealing with customers and green building materials the last few years is how you can gauge their commitment to same by how long it takes them to utter the fatal, to the concept, words: "Can we find something a bit cheaper?" Just got off the phone with a supplier in CA who sells a urea-formaldehyde free, bamboo plywood like the customer wants ... $290/sheet for 3/4" x 4' x 8', plus shipping, and it weighs in at +/- 85lb a sheet. We'll see .... eg Was no trouble and glad to do it...was curious (marginally ) about the answer if he had had any experience. He just finished a contract job for us on the church parsonage--nothing fancy there; we're about broke and if had known what was coming in the markets would probably have held off doing anything... Fortunately, the green theeng hadn't yet risen it's head to any significance before I quit the remodel/refurb stuff and what we were doing (antebellum restorations from dilapidated rentals back to single or at most two-family residentials) the work called almost exclusively for traditional construction/styles. Not to the extent for most of having to live up to National Register standards, but did a couple of those too... I don't think I'd have the patience for the current customer for the most part...Despite grain markets' recent retrenchment, think I'm better off back on the farm. Good luck w/ it--be interesting to hear what you think if it were to go that way. -- |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
Didn't Kermit the frog say something about
"It's hard being green" ??? From those numbers, it's a little pricey being green. Swingman wrote: Just got off the phone with a supplier in CA who sells a urea-formaldehyde free, bamboo plywood like the customer wants ... $290/sheet for 3/4" x 4' x 8', plus shipping, and it weighs in at +/- 85lb a sheet. We'll see .... eg |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
Pat Barber wrote:
No experience, but here is some info: http://www.plyboo.com/index.php?opti...7&It emid=218 I wonder where the photo of the cabinets was made. And I thought the outlets in my kitchen were unsightly!. I didn't even know it existed.... Swingman wrote: No conjecture, please. Client is considering using "plyboo", or "plyboo pure" for a new kitchen cabinet job. Any woodorker here used it, touched it, cut it, glued it, stained, or otherwise finished it? Any experience with this material welcome. Thanks ... -- Gerald Ross Cochran, GA A Lot of people mistake their imagination for their memory. |
#14
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
"Gerald Ross" wrote in message I wonder where the photo of the cabinets was made. And I thought the outlets in my kitchen were unsightly!. What? You don't like the industrial look? |
#15
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
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#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
It costs about $6000.00 to ship a container from China to the US. How many
sheets of plywood can you get in a shipping container? I would say shipping is rather cheap. I'd also say that the importer is making a killing if this stuff sells. "Stuart" wrote in message ... In article , Lee Michaels wrote: The first is to put something together that indicates china produced products are not all that green, regardless of what the marketing sheet say. For a start there's the shipping. It's a lot of miles from China to The UK or the US. -- Stuart Winsor Don't miss the Risc OS Christmas show http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/mug/show08/MUGshow.html |
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
Swingman wrote:
"dpb" wrote I asked one of the two locals here when I ran into him at the donut shop a couple hours ago--he's not had any call for it, so no input there, either, sorry. Thanks ... I do appreciate your effort. Mighty nice of you. The saving grace ... One thing I've learned when dealing with customers and green building materials the last few years is how you can gauge their commitment to same by how long it takes them to utter the fatal, to the concept, words: "Can we find something a bit cheaper?" Just got off the phone with a supplier in CA who sells a urea-formaldehyde free, bamboo plywood like the customer wants ... $290/sheet for 3/4" x 4' x 8', plus shipping, and it weighs in at +/- 85lb a sheet. We'll see .... eg On the plus side, the more people go for this kind of stuff, the more real wood it leaves for the rest of us. ;-) -- If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough |
#18
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
"Pat Barber" wrote
Didn't Kermit the frog say something about "It's hard being green" ??? From those numbers, it's a little pricey being green. Here's something for Kermit to ponder ... apparently ALL of Columbia Forest Products plywood, the supplier for Home Depot last I heard, is now "formaldehyde free": http://www.columbiaforestproducts.co...ts/prodpb.aspx I'm assuming they have a higher grade plywood than that sold in HD and have a call into one of the three local suppliers to assess that (other than HD, which may be able to order it). If this is indeed the case, and since the client has subsequently advised that they are most concerned about out gassing over sustainability, and since they have bamboo, along with her fallback wood choices, we may be looking at a fit somewhere. .... besides, it'd be a real hoot saying the plywood for this project "came from HD." -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
"J T" (Swingman) doth query thusly: No conjecture, please. Client is considering using "plyboo", or "plyboo pure" for a new kitchen cabinet job. Any woodorker here used it, touched it, cut it, glued it, stained, or otherwise finished it? Any experience with this material welcome. Thanks ... You'll never go wrong with painting them yellow. Unless if's after Labor Day. LOL! ... hey, Bubba, that sure was a purty poem you posted over in ABPW!! -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#20
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
"Swingman" wrote in message
... No conjecture, please. Client is considering using "plyboo", or "plyboo pure" for a new kitchen cabinet job. Any woodorker here used it, touched it, cut it, glued it, stained, or otherwise finished it? Any experience with this material welcome. Thanks ... The glue will be Cat Pee based. It will outgas for a thousand years. The kitchen will be declared a Superfund Site and even escapees from FEMA trailers will not enter it. |
#21
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
On Nov 25, 12:59*pm, "Swingman" wrote:
"Can we find something a bit cheaper?" Kinda where the rubber meets the road on any project, eh? Robert |
#22
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
"Swingman" wrote in message ... No conjecture, please. Client is considering using "plyboo", or "plyboo pure" for a new kitchen cabinet job. Any woodorker here used it, touched it, cut it, glued it, stained, or otherwise finished it? Any experience with this material welcome. Thanks ... -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) I understand that it grows rather quickly, perhaps you could garden some up for the job and reeeeeely be green. ;~) That aside, labor pricing should probably be higher to cover the added expense of cutting plugs to cover screw holes etc. I doubt you would want to putty bamboo and I have never seen remade bamboo plugs. If you go that route, the bamboo, you will probably have an audience including me. |
#23
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
"Stuart" wrote in message ... In article , CW wrote: It costs about $6000.00 to ship a container from China to the US. How many sheets of plywood can you get in a shipping container? I would say shipping is rather cheap. I'd also say that the importer is making a killing if this stuff sells. We were discussing the enviromental cost! How much fuel does your ship use - per container mile if you like. How much CO2 does that put into the atmosphere compared to using plywood made locally. -- Stuart Winsor how much plywood is made locally in the US? |
#24
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
"charlie" wrote how much plywood is made locally in the US? U.S. Forest Products Annual Market Review and Prospects, 2005-2008 James L. Howard Rebecca Westby "Hardwood plywood production, including core material such as softwood plywood and OSB, was estimated at 1.6 million cubic meters in 2007, down from 2006 production. Hardwood plywood imports increased 13.8% in 2007 rising to 4.8 million cubic meters when compared with 2006. Softwood plywood production was 10.8 million cubic meters in 2007, according to APA-The Engineered Wood Association (2007). This level of production was 8.8% below 2006. The volume of softwood plywood production fell throughout the 1990s, and the decline has continued through 2007. Softwood plywood production for the first 5 months of 2008 decreased by 14.7% compared with the first 5 months of 2007. The APA-The Engineered Wood Association's forecast that plywood production would decrease in 2008 is supported by the decline in production during the first 5 months of this year. Softwood plywood imports decreased in 2007 by 41% compared with 2006 data, while softwood plywood exports increased the first 5 months of 2008 by 40.3%. Plywood exports to Canada increased by 60% during the first 5 months of 2008 compared to a year earlier, and plywood imports from Canada decreased 35%. Apparent consumption of softwood plywood is expected to decrease in 2008." -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#25
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
"Swingman" wrote in message ... "charlie" wrote how much plywood is made locally in the US? U.S. Forest Products Annual Market Review and Prospects, 2005-2008 James L. Howard Rebecca Westby "Hardwood plywood production, including core material such as softwood plywood and OSB, was estimated at 1.6 million cubic meters in 2007, down from 2006 production. Hardwood plywood imports increased 13.8% in 2007 rising to 4.8 million cubic meters when compared with 2006. Softwood plywood production was 10.8 million cubic meters in 2007, according to APA-The Engineered Wood Association (2007). This level of production was 8.8% below 2006. The volume of softwood plywood production fell throughout the 1990s, and the decline has continued through 2007. Softwood plywood production for the first 5 months of 2008 decreased by 14.7% compared with the first 5 months of 2007. The APA-The Engineered Wood Association's forecast that plywood production would decrease in 2008 is supported by the decline in production during the first 5 months of this year. Softwood plywood imports decreased in 2007 by 41% compared with 2006 data, while softwood plywood exports increased the first 5 months of 2008 by 40.3%. Plywood exports to Canada increased by 60% during the first 5 months of 2008 compared to a year earlier, and plywood imports from Canada decreased 35%. Apparent consumption of softwood plywood is expected to decrease in 2008." -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) thanks. looks like demand is way down. however, the pertinent keyword is local. none of that is local to me, nor to the OP who is in texas. |
#26
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
I love Columbia's description of the "new hardwood plywood"
http://www.columbiaforestproducts.co...s/prodbam.aspx They want to start selling us grass disguised as hardwood plywood. I still want to see a sheet or two of this stuff. Might be the new wave in building materials. |
#27
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
"Stuart" wrote:
Living in the UK I have absolutly no idea but you appear to have plenty of timber. Perhaps a few comparisons will help. Population: UK: 50-60 Million US: 310+ Million Canada: Approaching 30 million (90% live within 30 miles of US border) Land Mass: Don't have the numbers handy, but US operates daily across 3 time zones not including Alaska, Hawaii, Canada operates across 10-11 time zones. (Granted Canada's high latitudes have something to do with this) US plywood mfg source of lumber: NorthWestern US and Western Canada which combined is probably at least 2-4 times the size of the UK as a guess, subject to confirmation. Lew |
#28
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Stuart" wrote: Living in the UK I have absolutly no idea but you appear to have plenty of timber. Perhaps a few comparisons will help. Population: UK: 50-60 Million US: 310+ Million Canada: Approaching 30 million (90% live within 30 miles of US border) Over 33 Million https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../print/ca.html Land Mass: Don't have the numbers handy, but US operates daily across 3 time zones not including Alaska, Hawaii, Eastern, Central, Mountain, Pacific, I count 4. Canada operates across 10-11 time zones. (Granted Canada's high latitudes have something to do with this) 6 time zones add Newfoundland and Atlantic, to the US list. Also latitude has absolutely nothing to do with time zones, it is all based on longitude, with local adjustments, provincial, state, country borders and the like. US plywood mfg source of lumber: NorthWestern US and Western Canada which combined is probably at least 2-4 times the size of the UK as a guess, subject to confirmation. -- Froz... 2 feet longer than a d00tchie. |
#29
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
"FrozenNorth" wrote:
Eastern, Central, Mountain, Pacific, I count 4. Brain fart on my end. Don't do any business in Mountain zone. 6 time zones add Newfoundland and Atlantic, to the US list. Also latitude has absolutely nothing to do with time zones, it is all based on longitude, with local adjustments, provincial, state, country borders and the like. Each time zone is 15 degrees of rotation. Distance across the surface of the zone measured at equator is much larger than at high latitudes. Same number of square miles measured at equator requires fewer time zones than when measured at higher latitudes. Has nothing to do with the angular measurements of the time zones. Lew |
#30
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
charlie wrote:
how much plywood is made locally in the US? None near me, in the Northeast US. All the plywood I can buy is either Chinese, from Chile, or from western Canada. How much plywood is made in the UK? |
#31
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
One of the issues is Chile is exporting plywood as
the country is ideally suited to fast growing hybrid pine trees used in modern operations. OPEC owns the lumber and plywood operations. Sold in Home Depot as I recall. Martin charlie wrote: "Swingman" wrote in message ... "charlie" wrote how much plywood is made locally in the US? U.S. Forest Products Annual Market Review and Prospects, 2005-2008 James L. Howard Rebecca Westby "Hardwood plywood production, including core material such as softwood plywood and OSB, was estimated at 1.6 million cubic meters in 2007, down from 2006 production. Hardwood plywood imports increased 13.8% in 2007 rising to 4.8 million cubic meters when compared with 2006. Softwood plywood production was 10.8 million cubic meters in 2007, according to APA-The Engineered Wood Association (2007). This level of production was 8.8% below 2006. The volume of softwood plywood production fell throughout the 1990s, and the decline has continued through 2007. Softwood plywood production for the first 5 months of 2008 decreased by 14.7% compared with the first 5 months of 2007. The APA-The Engineered Wood Association's forecast that plywood production would decrease in 2008 is supported by the decline in production during the first 5 months of this year. Softwood plywood imports decreased in 2007 by 41% compared with 2006 data, while softwood plywood exports increased the first 5 months of 2008 by 40.3%. Plywood exports to Canada increased by 60% during the first 5 months of 2008 compared to a year earlier, and plywood imports from Canada decreased 35%. Apparent consumption of softwood plywood is expected to decrease in 2008." -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) thanks. looks like demand is way down. however, the pertinent keyword is local. none of that is local to me, nor to the OP who is in texas. |
#32
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
East Texas as well as the deep south produce a lot of ply,
Telephone poles and posts. The paper industry is all around us as well. Power cost is the limiting factors. Martin - in the piney woods of East Texas Lew Hodgett wrote: "Stuart" wrote: Living in the UK I have absolutly no idea but you appear to have plenty of timber. Perhaps a few comparisons will help. Population: UK: 50-60 Million US: 310+ Million Canada: Approaching 30 million (90% live within 30 miles of US border) Land Mass: Don't have the numbers handy, but US operates daily across 3 time zones not including Alaska, Hawaii, Canada operates across 10-11 time zones. (Granted Canada's high latitudes have something to do with this) US plywood mfg source of lumber: NorthWestern US and Western Canada which combined is probably at least 2-4 times the size of the UK as a guess, subject to confirmation. Lew |
#33
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
Having read this I see you haven't got an experienced post yet. I do
electrical primarily lighting. Customers come up with all kinds of crazy products. I tell them I can install it but I have no relationship with the suppliers so I can't guarantee it and they might want to supply the materials themselves. Mike M On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 18:21:53 -0600, "Swingman" wrote: No conjecture, please. Client is considering using "plyboo", or "plyboo pure" for a new kitchen cabinet job. Any woodorker here used it, touched it, cut it, glued it, stained, or otherwise finished it? Any experience with this material welcome. Thanks ... |
#34
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
Tue, Nov 25, 2008, 6:15pm (EST-1) (Swingman) did sayeth:
LOL! ... hey, Bubba, that sure was a purty poem you posted over in ABPW!! Ummm, been smoking the sawdust again? I posted that in rec.woodworking. Glad you liked it tho. JOAT Where the choice is between only violence and cowardice, I would advise violence. - Mohandas Gandhi |
#35
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
One of the issues is Chile is exporting plywood as the country is ideally suited to fast growing hybrid pine trees used in modern operations. OPEC owns the lumber and plywood operations. Sold in Home Depot as I recall. All of my local sources have it, as well as lots of pine doors from Chile. |
#36
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
"J T" wrote
Ummm, been smoking the sawdust again? Oh dear, my goodness gracious, I really must schedule some face time with my dealer! I posted that in rec.woodworking. Damn Windows Live Mail! Glad you liked it tho. What can I say ... being the sentimental guy I am, it brought tears to my eyes. BTW, getting any more of them old cars out of your yard? -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious) |
#37
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
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#38
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Plyboo ... firsthand experience wanted
Stuart wrote:
In article , CW wrote: It costs about $6000.00 to ship a container from China to the US. How many sheets of plywood can you get in a shipping container? I would say shipping is rather cheap. I'd also say that the importer is making a killing if this stuff sells. We were discussing the enviromental cost! How much fuel does your ship use - per container mile if you like. How much CO2 does that put into the atmosphere compared to using plywood made locally. This was being discussed recently on NPR. Seems that French wine imported by ship has a lower carbon footprint than California wines shipped by truck if you live anywhere east of Chicago. Ships are very efficient. The seemingly obvious answer can be wrong. So it may depend on how far the truck has to travel from port to jobsite vs. mill to jobsite. Bill Ranck Blacksburg, Va. |
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