We need help from a Civil War expert for the first piece in this week's set:

http://55tools.blogspot.com/


Rob

1467 Slide tray. Feeds slides into a slide projector.

1468 Ice delivery indicator. Put it in a window so the Ice man knows how
much ice to schlep up to the upper floor for your icebox.

1470 Screw Jack (I'm not trying to be nasty to someone named Jack.)
General purpose lifting jack from the era before hydraulics.



"Rob H." wrote in message
...
We need help from a Civil War expert for the first piece in this week's
set:

http://55tools.blogspot.com/


Rob

"Rob H." wrote in message
...
We need help from a Civil War expert for the first piece in this
week's set:

http://55tools.blogspot.com/


Rob

1465 Could it be a device for indicating wind direction by compass
point?
Perhaps used in gunnery?

On Nov 20, 5:17*pm, "Rob H." wrote:
We need help from a Civil War expert for the first piece in this week's set:

http://55tools.blogspot.com/

Rob

1465: I gotta believe that this is a wind vane for directing
artillery, or else for launching hot air balloons that they used for
observation.

1466: baling pliers. The baling wire is grasped by the pliers, which
are twisted around, tightening the wire. Then the pliers are opened
and the wire is cut.

1467: Linear slide carousel for a slide projector.

1468: Ice thickness indicator for roads that cross frozen ponds in the
winter. I'd hate to be the guy who has to retrieve the sign in the
spring....

1469: The case and bone latch makes this Chinese, for sure. (The
chopsticks help, too). I think its a pharmacology toolkit, for making
medicines from bark, etc.

1470: http://www.lkgoodwin.com/more_info/s...ew_jacks.shtml

-riverman

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 04:17:29 -0500, Rob H. wrote:

We need help from a Civil War expert for the first piece in this
week's set:

I'm guessing, and am not an expert on the Civil War, or any of the
things you normally post. :-) I also haven't looked at any of the
other guesses.

1465: Weather vane. I'd guess it was for taking up in a balloon, since
balloons were used in the Civil War. Read up on Thaddeus Lowe, eg.
http://www.civilwarhome.com/lowebio.htm

1468: Indicator for how many pounds of ice a home needed?

--
Ted S.
fedya at hughes dot net
Now blogging at http://justacineast.blogspot.com

"Rob H." wrote in message
...
We need help from a Civil War expert for the first piece in this week's
set:

http://55tools.blogspot.com/


Rob

Well,

1466 (a guess) wire bending pliers

1467 is easy enough... a slide tray for a slide projector.

1468 ???

1469 (a guess), some sort of Japanese tea set.

1470 a Jack stand. 1 1/4" is probably good for a ton or two.

"Rob H." wrote in :

We need help from a Civil War expert for the first piece in this
week's set:

http://55tools.blogspot.com/

1465: At a guess, it's an ranging compass and the freely-spinning arrow is
to help the gunner allow for windage.

1468: it's an ice order card. You set it in your window with the number
representing the amount of ice you wanted uppermost, and the iceman
delivered accordingly. As it's photographed, he would deliver 20 pounds.

1469: Japanese or Korean eating kit for travel. The small skewer is for
sticking small tidbits (like the toothpick in an hors d'ouever) The two-
pronged thing is a fork.
http://research.calacademy.org/research/anthropology/utensil/portable.htm
is Korean

"Rob H." wrote in message
...
We need help from a Civil War expert for the first piece in this week's
set:

http://55tools.blogspot.com/


Rob
1465 navigation tool for boats. I quess the navigator would get the piece
lined up with magnetic north then set the arrow in the direction they needed
to go. I would guess that the unit has a gimble? to keep it upright with the
motion of the boat.
1466 looks like a tool to tighten wire or something. Maybe for banding stuff
together.
1467 Floppy disc holder?
1468 no idea but I am sure I have seen this somewhere, My guess would be
that it tells the user what the acceptable temperature is for a substance.
1469 pass???

"Dwayne" wrote in message
...

"Rob H." wrote in message
...
We need help from a Civil War expert for the first piece in this week's
set:

http://55tools.blogspot.com/


Rob
1465 navigation tool for boats. I quess the navigator would get the piece
lined up with magnetic north then set the arrow in the direction they
needed to go. I would guess that the unit has a gimble? to keep it upright
with the motion of the boat.
1466 looks like a tool to tighten wire or something. Maybe for banding
stuff together.
1467 Floppy disc holder?
1468 no idea but I am sure I have seen this somewhere, My guess would be
that it tells the user what the acceptable temperature is for a substance.
1469 pass???
oops missed 1470 but its a jack.

"Barbara Bailey" wrote:
(clip) 1469: Japanese or Korean eating kit for travel. The small skewer is
for
sticking small tidbits (like the toothpick in an hors d'ouever) (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The small spoon on the opposite end is suspiciously like those used for
sniffing dope.

Rob H. wrote:
We need help from a Civil War expert for the first piece in this week's
set:

http://55tools.blogspot.com/


Rob

1465 - Looks like a portable wind vane. May have been used for launching
balloons or for weather monitoring.

1466 - Wire former

1467 - Slide tray. Used for film slides, the side notches are for use
when they are stacked.

1468 - Ice order card. You hung it in the window to tell the ice monger
how much you needed.

1469 - Japanese utensil kit. Used by a traveler when eating at the
common tables in the Inn.

1470 - House jack. Used to jack up your house or barn to enable you to
work on the stone foundations.



--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

Life is not like a box of chocolates
it's more like a jar of jalapenos-
what you do today could burn your ass tomorrow!


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On 2008-11-20, Rob H. wrote:
We need help from a Civil War expert for the first piece in this week's set:

http://55tools.blogspot.com/

O.K. Posting from rec.crafts.metalworking as always.

1465) The device is obviously designed to show the wind direction.
You set it down with the North-pointing needle pointing to the
'N' on the compass rose, and then the arrow will point into the
wind.

It is obvious that there are provisions for adjusting the
balance of the arrow -- to minimize lateral forces on the
bearing, and to prevent a slight tilt of the base from affecting
the reading.

I find myself wondering what might be revealed if the two thumb
nuts on either side of the compass were removed. Is there
something stored in the base?

For initial thoughts (ignoring the two pistols which might or
might not not have been intended to be part of the setup) it
might have been for determining wind direction prior to taking a
long range target shot with a rifle. It would be more
beneficial if it included a way of measuring the strength of the
wind as well as the direction. Hmm ... part of a sniper's
equipment -- used with a good quality rifle?

The pistol shown is a single-shot one, cap-and-ball style, and
it appears to be missing the hammer, which should have been on
the square shaft end visible in the side plate.

It is also missing the ramrod, which would normally have been
stored under the barrel. However, the fitting at the end of the
barrel looks more like something to allow a support to be
attached for target shooting.

Pity that a friend has such a slow net connection. She spent
several years in civil war re-enacting, and studied things very
deeply. Well ... next time she is up visiting. :-)

If the two pistols are identical (within the manufacturing
capabilities of the period, and given the changes which come
with age), then I might consider them to be a set of dueling
pistols, and the wind direction gauge to be used to select an
orientation which does not favor either duelist.

Is there a way to attach the cover to the base, so the handle on
the top will carry both?

1466) Looks like a tool for bending wire as part of jewelry.

1467) Very obvious -- a slide tray for a pre-carousel 35mm
slide projector, -- and obviously a Revere slide projector.

1468) From the days when ice was delivered (and milk, and other
needs of the time). You hung it on the outside insulated ice
box with the selected number up to tell the delivery man how
much you needed this delivery, 20 pounds being a single large
cube of ice, and the others being longer pieces than plain cubes
-- or multiples of the cubes.

1469) This looks like a cook's set for oriental cooking with a wok.
The two small containers would contain ingredients prepared to
go into the wok at the proper moment. The chopsticks for
serving, or perhaps controlling certain thing. The long-handled
spoon for keeping the parts of the meal moving so nothing is
burned and stuck to the wok. I'm not sure about the needle or
the strange fork, however.

1470) A house jack. In some (warmer) parts of the country houses are
mounted on wooden posts clear of the ground to allow airflow
under the house. Occasionally, one of these will rot, and need
replacing, so a pair of these jacks go on ether side while the
post is dug out and replaced. The rotting is more likely to
happen along the outer row of posts, where the access is
greater, but it is possible to climb under the house and exit
the other side -- based on the house which I lived in in as a
kid in South Texas

We had one of these stored under the sink in one of the
bathrooms.

Now to see what others have said.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2008-11-20, Steve W. wrote:

[ ... ]

1467 - Slide tray. Used for film slides, the side notches are for use
when they are stacked.

Actually -- the notches (rack gear along the bottom of the ridge
on the near side) engages a gear in the slide projector and was used to
advance the tray precisely one slide position at a time.

[ ... ]

1470 - House jack. Used to jack up your house or barn to enable you to
work on the stone foundations.

Stone -- and wood posts in warmer climates.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-11-20, Steve W. wrote:

[ ... ]

1467 - Slide tray. Used for film slides, the side notches are for use
when they are stacked.

Actually -- the notches (rack gear along the bottom of the ridge
on the near side) engages a gear in the slide projector and was used to
advance the tray precisely one slide position at a time.


Yep. they are also numbered so that you can read the slide numbers when
stacked.


1470 - House jack. Used to jack up your house or barn to enable you to
work on the stone foundations.

Stone -- and wood posts in warmer climates.

Warm climate? What's that? We have 12 degrees here.....


Enjoy,
DoN.



--
Steve W.

In article , "Rob H."
wrote:

http://55tools.blogspot.com/

1465 - Looks to me as though it would be a fairly precise wind direction
indicator, possibly so you can figure out how to tweak in your aim?
Probably not for use with pistols of the era, which I'd assume would
lack the accuracy to make this a worthwhile exercise, but maybe for
field artillery and such like.

1466 - Yet another fence tightener, perhaps? Tightening fences seems to
be somewhere around trapping mice as fertile grounds for inventors.

1467 - Box to hold...ummm...maybe tape cartridges with commercials or
announcements for a radio station? Maybe IC wafers during processing,
in the days of yore when such wafers measured 3" or 4" (a few
generations of technology ago)?

1468 - The center text rather gives this away, in my opinion. In the
days of iceboxes (with actual ice), you'd hang this outside your house
so that when the iceman cometh he knows how big a block to deliver.
Calibrated in pounds, presumably, and color coded so as to be read at a
distance.

1469 - Possibly an oriental mess kit, to carry your favored utensils to
your friends house when dining there. The bottommost implements look
like chopsticks.

1470 - Screw jack, used for jacking up axles or houses or whatever
needed to be lifted. Operated by inserting a bar in one of the holes on
the top part and screwing or unscrewing it from the base. Note the
convenient carry handle, although I suspect it's still rather on the
heavy side.

Now to read the other guesses...

--
Andrew Erickson

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot
lose." -- Jim Elliot

1468:

From http://www.heritagepursuit.com/Picka...wayChapIII.htm

"Circleville Ice Company .--In 1862 J. H. Bennett established an ice
business, of which his son, H. J. Bennett, took charge in 1870. The
latter conducted it until three years ago, when the plant was
purchased by a company and incorporated with a capital stock of
$10,000. The first officers were : John L. Krimmel, president ; George
Bennett, vice-president; Irvin F. Snyder, secretary; and W. C. Morris,
treasurer. The present officers a George Bennett, president; Milton
Morris, vice-president; Irvin F. Snyder, secretary, and W. C. Morris,
treasurer. The board of directors includes the four officers just
named and Emanuel S. Neuding. In 1895 Mr. Bennett built new ice houses
on the west side of the river, which were destroyed by fire the
following year. He then purchased a tract of land on the Island road,
where the present company's plant is now located. The buildings were
again destroyed by fire in the summer of 1906. The company is now
erecting large and better structures on the same site."


What I find really interesting is that they were bottling and selling
mineral water in 1882! I thought that was a recent fad!

--riverman

http://55tools.blogspot.com/


I find myself wondering what might be revealed if the two thumb
nuts on either side of the compass were removed. Is there
something stored in the base?


Below is a link to a photo of one of the thumb screws when removed:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8.../pic1465td.jpg

I've been trying to figure out what they're for, best thing I've come up
with so far is they are for mounting the device on something, maybe some
leather straps with holes go over the screws, they you could tie the other
ends around whatever it was sitting on. Makes sense if it was used with one
of those spy balloons that someone mentioned. Although my first thought
was that the device was used with artillery, as several others have posted.
Anyone else have a theory on these thumb screws?

I think to remove the compass, you would have to take out all of the small
screws, which would be interesting but seems like this piece is too valuable
to risk marring it with a screwdriver.

The pistol shown is a single-shot one, cap-and-ball style, and
it appears to be missing the hammer, which should have been on
the square shaft end visible in the side plate.

The hammers on both guns were totally rusted away when found and were just
powder in the newspaper.

If the two pistols are identical (within the manufacturing
capabilities of the period, and given the changes which come
with age), then I might consider them to be a set of dueling
pistols, and the wind direction gauge to be used to select an
orientation which does not favor either duelist.

One was a flintlock, and the other a percussion cap, which is shown on the
site.

Is there a way to attach the cover to the base, so the handle on
the top will carry both?

Yes, the case has two pivoting tabs that fit into slots under the brass
plate. I'll post a couple more photos on the answer page that show this.

This is a great piece, a friend who is a collector and goes to a lot of
auctions estimated that if it could be documented to the Civil War, it would
probably be valued at $20,000-$30,000. But unless it could be found in an
old photo or described in detail in some papers, I don't know how you could
prove its provenance.



Rob

On 2008-11-21, Rob H. wrote:

http://55tools.blogspot.com/


I find myself wondering what might be revealed if the two thumb
nuts on either side of the compass were removed. Is there
something stored in the base?


Below is a link to a photo of one of the thumb screws when removed:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8.../pic1465td.jpg

O.K. A thumb nut for for sure, not a thumbscrew. And it looks
as though the threads which go into the brass frame are intentionally
deformed, to cause the screw to jam in place. But it may be that the
brass frame is not threaded, but instead simply drilled to clear, so
with both of them loosened the brass frame (with the compass) could be
lifted clear of the base.

I've been trying to figure out what they're for, best thing I've come up
with so far is they are for mounting the device on something, maybe some
leather straps with holes go over the screws, they you could tie the other
ends around whatever it was sitting on. Makes sense if it was used with one
of those spy balloons that someone mentioned. Although my first thought
was that the device was used with artillery, as several others have posted.
Anyone else have a theory on these thumb screws?

No more on them as this one appears.

I think to remove the compass, you would have to take out all of the small
screws, which would be interesting but seems like this piece is too valuable
to risk marring it with a screwdriver.

Understood.

The pistol shown is a single-shot one, cap-and-ball style, and
it appears to be missing the hammer, which should have been on
the square shaft end visible in the side plate.

The hammers on both guns were totally rusted away when found and were just
powder in the newspaper.

O.K. That suggests that the metal of the sideplate and works
was a different alloy than the hammers. Or perhaps the contact of the
newspaper with the hammers wicked moisture to the hammers, but not the
rest.

If the two pistols are identical (within the manufacturing
capabilities of the period, and given the changes which come
with age), then I might consider them to be a set of dueling
pistols, and the wind direction gauge to be used to select an
orientation which does not favor either duelist.

One was a flintlock, and the other a percussion cap, which is shown on the
site.

O.K. Then simply a private collection.

Is there a way to attach the cover to the base, so the handle on
the top will carry both?

Yes, the case has two pivoting tabs that fit into slots under the brass
plate. I'll post a couple more photos on the answer page that show this.

O.K. Thanks.

This is a great piece, a friend who is a collector and goes to a lot of
auctions estimated that if it could be documented to the Civil War, it would
probably be valued at $20,000-$30,000. But unless it could be found in an
old photo or described in detail in some papers, I don't know how you could
prove its provenance.

Indeed. And I somehow find it offensive that something
utilitarian (at least at the time) rather than designed as a work of art
would have so high a value. Something like that should be still used,
not set on a shelf behind glass.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2008-11-20, Steve W. wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-11-20, Steve W. wrote:

[ ... ]

1467 - Slide tray. Used for film slides, the side notches are for use
when they are stacked.

Actually -- the notches (rack gear along the bottom of the ridge
on the near side) engages a gear in the slide projector and was used to
advance the tray precisely one slide position at a time.


Yep. they are also numbered so that you can read the slide numbers when
stacked.

Actually -- those numbers on the top angle of the rack were
either indicated by a pointer in the projector, or viewed through a
window in the projector -- so you could slide the carrier along until a
specific slide was in position to be loaded and projected. Stacked had
nothing to do with it, since you don't care what number is where when
there are multiple carriers stacked up -- only when there is a carrier
in the projector, or when you have a carrier in your hand and wish to
pull out a specific slide. There is typically a clear plastic dust cover
which snaps over the carrier when it is not in the projector, and there
is a label on which you can write a very short description of each slide
by number to help you find the one you want.

In later carousel trays there are similar index numbers around
the skirt for quickly rotating the carousel to position a specific slide
for projection.


1470 - House jack. Used to jack up your house or barn to enable you to
work on the stone foundations.

Stone -- and wood posts in warmer climates.

Warm climate? What's that? We have 12 degrees here.....

Where is "here"? And which temperature scale? C or F? I'm
currently in Northern Virginia, and it is sort of hovering a bit over
the freezing point.

But the place which I was describing was deep South Texas.
Close enough to the border so you start to experience the exponential
spice rise as you approach the border (from either side). :-)

There, the ability of a breeze to flow under the floor is
beneficial most of the year. Up in North Dakota, it is something which
you certainly don't want to happen. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:
1470 - House jack. Used to jack up your house or barn to enable you to
work on the stone foundations.
Stone -- and wood posts in warmer climates.
Warm climate? What's that? We have 12 degrees here.....

Where is "here"? And which temperature scale? C or F? I'm
currently in Northern Virginia, and it is sort of hovering a bit over
the freezing point.

But the place which I was describing was deep South Texas.
Close enough to the border so you start to experience the exponential
spice rise as you approach the border (from either side). :-)

There, the ability of a breeze to flow under the floor is
beneficial most of the year. Up in North Dakota, it is something which
you certainly don't want to happen. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.


REAL Upstate NY (as opposed to the folks who think that 10 miles north
of NYC is upstate)
Fahrenheit scale, Oh and it has dropped just a bit, it's about 6 outside
at this time.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

Rob H. wrote:
We need help from a Civil War expert for the first piece in this week's
set:

http://55tools.blogspot.com/


Rob

1465 resembles a weather vane, but a weather vane does not indicate
speed or exact direction. If this device were to measure wind
direction, I would expect it to have a short, heavy head, a long tail
with lots of fin area, a pinpoint pivot for low friction, and little
capability for balance adjustment.

Was a separate instrument to be carried to measure speed? A measured
length of thread and a lightweight ball of a standard size and weight
can be used to measure wind direction and speed precisely. You hang the
ball in the wind and use a plumb bob to mark the ground below the ball
and below the suspension point.

I think the pivot was designed not to be moved by a light wind. The
fitting in the middle of the arrow shaft adds considerable mass below
the arrow shaft. If the internal pivot point is near the top of the
fitting and the hole in the fitting is conical, screwing the weight
along the arrow shaft could adjust the slope at which the arrow
balances, pointing several degrees up or down.

If your eye is a couple of feet behind the arrow and you move your eye
until the horizontal fins of the head are centered with the vertical
tail fins, you will see exactly where the arrow is pointed.

Now suppose you have a paper frame (a paper rectangle with a rectangle
cut out to fit snugly around the brass rectangle with the two thumb
nuts). Suppose the paper frame is printed with degree markings, with
zero at one corner and going clockwise like a compass. Put that paper
frame on the wood, around the brass, with the zero corner of the paper
at the south corner of the brass.

I think the arrow was designed to be read at the tail because it's easy
to align your eye above the vertical fins. Because the paper frame is
180 degrees out, the mark below the tail will be the direction of the head.

A reason to read from the tail is that that's where the person who aims
the arrow will be. A reason to use paper is that marks printed on clean
paper will be easier to see than marks on brass or wood. A reason to
use a square instead of a circle is that the paper will be perfectly
aligned when fitted around a square.

Before a battle, the general has one of these instruments at his HQ.
Two spotters also have them. One goes up a hill on the left and the
other goes up a hill on the right. All set up their boxes. The
spotters write their azimuths to HQ and the guy at HQ writes his
azimuths to them.

Then the spotters document the battlefield, listing azimuths to military
positions, churches, houses, bridges, stone walls, etc. I think these
instruments could be dependable to a degree or less.

These azimuths could be used to map the battlefield so that the general
can see the significance of battle reports and so the artillery can see
where to shoot.

Set up by magnetic compasses, the boxes will probably not be aligned
closely enough to plot accurately. That's where the front-back
sightings come in. If the guy at HQ sees a spotter at 280 and the
spotter reports HQ at 99, the guy making the map knows to add a degree
will know to add a degree to all that spotter's azimuths. If he also
corrects the other spotter's azimuths, he can make a good map.

"E Z Peaces" wrote: (clip) Before a battle, the general has one of these
instruments at his HQ.
Two spotters also have them. One goes up a hill on the left and the other
goes up a hill on the right. All set up their boxes. The spotters write
their azimuths to HQ and the guy at HQ writes his azimuths to them. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The procedure you have outlined would work, but I can't believe anyone would
build an instrument for sighting directions, and not have the measuring
scale next to the pointer.

Leo Lichtman wrote:
"E Z Peaces" wrote: (clip) Before a battle, the general has one of
these instruments at his HQ.
Two spotters also have them. One goes up a hill on the left and
the
other goes up a hill on the right. All set up their boxes. The
spotters write their azimuths to HQ and the guy at HQ writes his
azimuths to them. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The procedure you have outlined would work, but I can't believe
anyone would build an instrument for sighting directions, and not
have the measuring scale next to the pointer.

However it would seem to me that theodolites would be more practical
for that use, and they were in common use in the 1700s
http://celebrating200years.noaa.gov/...tehead_zm.html.
If a less precise instrument was suitable then a bearing compass would
be used, that allows sighting through two slits.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Finally a couple I recognize.

The first item is a portable binnacle box for small vessels not permanantly
equipped with them inthe old days.

I have one but it also has a box top that fits over it and has latches on
the sides to hold the cover on.

The cover also has a handle to carry it by.

They would be mounted on a pedastal similar to the binnacle on an old
sailing ship, or eve more modern vessels.

The other piece with the handle on top is the companion light that is shaded
to allow a bit of light on the compass but not destroy the night vision.


I have also seen that pliers looking gadget. Our electrians all had one to
bend heavy gage wire. Not sure if that is what it is for but it sure worked
good.



"Rob H." wrote in message
...
We need help from a Civil War expert for the first piece in this week's
set:

http://55tools.blogspot.com/


Rob

Leo Lichtman wrote:
"E Z Peaces" wrote: (clip) Before a battle, the general has one of these
instruments at his HQ.
Two spotters also have them. One goes up a hill on the left and the other
goes up a hill on the right. All set up their boxes. The spotters write
their azimuths to HQ and the guy at HQ writes his azimuths to them. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The procedure you have outlined would work, but I can't believe anyone would
build an instrument for sighting directions, and not have the measuring
scale next to the pointer.


Ease of accurate reading. Degree marks would have been about a
millimeter apart. I have a ruler with black mm marks on white plastic.
I have a steel tape with black mm marks on yellow enamel.

If I had to go up a hill and read how the tail of the arrow lined up
with mm marks on the brass of that instrument, I would prefer to read
against black marks on a white surface. In those days, printing the
marks on paper may have been more practical than painting them on enamel
on brass.

J. Clarke wrote:
Leo Lichtman wrote:
"E Z Peaces" wrote: (clip) Before a battle, the general has one of
these instruments at his HQ.
Two spotters also have them. One goes up a hill on the left and
the
other goes up a hill on the right. All set up their boxes. The
spotters write their azimuths to HQ and the guy at HQ writes his
azimuths to them. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The procedure you have outlined would work, but I can't believe
anyone would build an instrument for sighting directions, and not
have the measuring scale next to the pointer.

However it would seem to me that theodolites would be more practical
for that use, and they were in common use in the 1700s
http://celebrating200years.noaa.gov/...tehead_zm.html.
If a less precise instrument was suitable then a bearing compass would
be used, that allows sighting through two slits.


As much as possible, battlefield equipment should be durable, cheap,
easily portable, and foolproof. I think theodolites would have been
impractical.


1. Delicate mechanisms to get out of whack.
2. Lenses to get damaged, dirty, or misaligned.
3. Expensive.
4. Big and heavy, especially with the tripod.
5. Require expertise.



I've used several expensive compass models for preliminary surveys or to
locate sighted items on maps. I've found them almost useless.

The most expensive advertised accuracy to 0.5 degree. That requires a
spindle that's precisely centered. To check, I taped a paper to the top
of a metal-free table, drew a line on the paper, and marked a dot on the
line. This was a means to rotate a compass with square sides 90, 180,
and 270 degrees and put it down exactly where it had been. I found
front-back discrepancies up to 2 degrees. The spindle wasn't centered
precisely enough for the advertised accuracy.

The next test for a compass is sighting accuracy. I would put a
fiberglass fence post in a field as a stable, level base for a compass,
then try several sightings to another post. I could not sight a compass
consistently to a degree.

The next test was to erect three posts in a line and put a compass on
the middle post to compare front and back directions. None of my
compasses was satisfactory.

The last test was to erect four posts in a hundred-foot square in a
field with no visible metal nearby. That would give me 12 readings to
compare. The discrepancies were worse than ever, indicating that moving
a compass a hundred feet can change magnetic north.

Item 1465 appears to be cheaper, easier to carry, more durable, and more
foolproof than a theodolite. Instead of depending on the precision of
compass readings, it would depend on a comparison with readings of other
such instruments.

Jay R wrote:
Finally a couple I recognize.

The first item is a portable binnacle box for small vessels not permanantly
equipped with them inthe old days.

I have one but it also has a box top that fits over it and has latches on
the sides to hold the cover on.

The cover also has a handle to carry it by.

They would be mounted on a pedastal similar to the binnacle on an old
sailing ship, or eve more modern vessels.

The other piece with the handle on top is the companion light that is shaded
to allow a bit of light on the compass but not destroy the night vision.


Is yours any different from this one? To steer a boat, wouldn't you
have to remove the tower to see the compass? Wouldn't the cardinal
points on the tower be correct only if you steered in a certain direction?

What would the arrow be for? I've seen one binnacle box with a tiny
telescope to take bearings to landmarks, but it appears that aboard a
boat the arrow would get knocked off or poke somebody in the eye. Why
would it need a major adjustment for balance?

Now that you mention it, the cover is curious. Luminous paint was in
use by 1903. Before that, if I wanted to read a compass in low light, I
think I'd want a large white rose with a few bold black marks.

In article , Rob H. wrote:
We need help from a Civil War expert for the first piece in this week's set:

http://55tools.blogspot.com/

1465: Portable weathervane. Perhaps this one was intended for
dueling purposes (ensuring neither side has the advantage of the
wind), considering the two pistols; you wouldn't need the compass for
that, though.
--
It's times like these which make me glad my bank is Dial-a-Mattress

http://55tools.blogspot.com/

1465: At a guess, it's an ranging compass and the freely-spinning arrow is
to help the gunner allow for windage.

1468: it's an ice order card. You set it in your window with the number
representing the amount of ice you wanted uppermost, and the iceman
delivered accordingly. As it's photographed, he would deliver 20 pounds.

1469: Japanese or Korean eating kit for travel. The small skewer is for
sticking small tidbits (like the toothpick in an hors d'ouever) The two-
pronged thing is a fork.
http://research.calacademy.org/research/anthropology/utensil/portable.htm
is Korean

Thanks, that's a good link. I used it on the answer page since it's the
closest I've seen to the set on my site.

Rob

Four of the six have been answered correctly, on the remaining two I would
bet that the correct ID is probably among the guesses, but they are
difficult to prove one way or the other right now.

http://answers259-8.blogspot.com/


Rob

"humunculus" wrote in message
...

1468:

From http://www.heritagepursuit.com/Picka...wayChapIII.htm

"Circleville Ice Company .--In 1862 J. H. Bennett established an ice
business, of which his son, H. J. Bennett, took charge in 1870. The
latter conducted it until three years ago, when the plant was
purchased by a company and incorporated with a capital stock of
$10,000. The first officers were : John L. Krimmel, president ; George
Bennett, vice-president; Irvin F. Snyder, secretary; and W. C. Morris,
treasurer. The present officers a George Bennett, president; Milton
Morris, vice-president; Irvin F. Snyder, secretary, and W. C. Morris,
treasurer. The board of directors includes the four officers just
named and Emanuel S. Neuding. In 1895 Mr. Bennett built new ice houses
on the west side of the river, which were destroyed by fire the
following year. He then purchased a tract of land on the Island road,
where the present company's plant is now located. The buildings were
again destroyed by fire in the summer of 1906. The company is now
erecting large and better structures on the same site."


What I find really interesting is that they were bottling and selling
mineral water in 1882! I thought that was a recent fad!

--riverman


Thanks for the link, though I have to admit I was disappointed when I went
to Google maps and found the Circleville wasn't laid out in a circle,
then I went back and reread the page where it said that it "derives its name
from the fact that the original town was laid out within a circular
enclosure, formed by a high embankment, that was found here when the first
settlement was made." I really expected a circular street with straight
roads radiating out from it, seems like false advertising to me.;-)

Rob

You guys are good, with one exception.

The ice card was hung in the window. That way the iceman could see it from
down in the street. Even if he could not read the numbers, if his eyes
were going, or you were on the fourth floor, he coould see the color,
knowing that red was 20 lb, etc.

You DO remember how Jack Benny described his eyes, don't you? "Blue. Bluer
than the right shoulder of a left-handed iceman."

Probably in reference to the poor schlub who had to haul sixty pounds up
three flights of stairs, at every third house in south Chicago.

Flash




"Rob H." wrote in message
...
We need help from a Civil War expert for the first piece in this week's
set:

http://55tools.blogspot.com/


Rob

Item 1470 is definitely a jack and could be used for a number of
purposes. The item is exactly like the machinery jacks I use to set up
odd shaped parts on a machine so they can be cut except that mine don't
have the fancy designs on them.

John

"john" wrote in message
...


Item 1470 is definitely a jack and could be used for a number of
purposes. The item is exactly like the machinery jacks I use to set up odd
shaped parts on a machine so they can be cut except that mine don't have
the fancy designs on them.

John


I have a pair of "Machinists Jacks" that belonged to my wife's grandfather.
When not extended, they are about 1.5" tall.

Ed

On Nov 20, 10:28*am, "Ed Edelenbos" wrote:

1470 a Jack stand. *1 1/4" is probably good for a ton or two.

1-1/4" is good for 10 tons.

John Martin

"John Martin" wrote in message
...
On Nov 20, 10:28 am, "Ed Edelenbos" wrote:

1470 a Jack stand. 1 1/4" is probably good for a ton or two.

1-1/4" is good for 10 tons.

John Martin

Right after I hit send (and had thought about it a little bit) I figured I
had WAY understated that number.

Ed

On 2008-11-22, Ed Edelenbos wrote:


"john" wrote in message
...


Item 1470 is definitely a jack and could be used for a number of
purposes. The item is exactly like the machinery jacks I use to set up odd
shaped parts on a machine so they can be cut except that mine don't have
the fancy designs on them.

[ ... ]

I have a pair of "Machinists Jacks" that belonged to my wife's grandfather.
When not extended, they are about 1.5" tall.

Were those the ones made by Starrett? They had two sizes, with
the 1-1/2" one being the smaller. The came with two screws -- one with
a conical point, and the other with a tilting pad on a ball. The top
just above the thread was square, with two holes at right angles going
through the square for tommy-bars for actually adjusting them. They
also had (in the full set) a cylindrical spacer to extend the height,
another such spacer with a 'V' in the bottom to place over a round rod,
and a third one with a blunt chisel to fit into a V.

Check out eBay auction # 220315381867 for a good set of photos
of a pair of them.

Of course -- Starrett was not the only maker, just the most
popular -- and they were shop made as well.

They were used on shapers, mills, and planers to support an
irregular casting so the surface to be cut would be parallel to the
travel of the cutter.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Rob H. wrote:
Four of the six have been answered correctly, on the remaining two I
would bet that the correct ID is probably among the guesses, but they
are difficult to prove one way or the other right now.

http://answers259-8.blogspot.com/


Rob

I've found that 1465 wouldn't have been for mapping battlefields. To
make reconnaissance maps, soldiers used plane tables as surveyors did.

In Europe, theodolites came into use for collecting data as numbers
instead of maps. They weren't very useful in America because woods
obstructed lines of sight. Not even Lewis and Clark carried one.

In Philadelphia, William J. Young invented the transit in 1831. It was
more useful than the theodolite because the telescope could be flipped
to extend a line.

Because America had little capacity to build such instruments, Young
contracted with a British manufacturer to make 36. Most were unusable.
If they were so hard to manufacture, they must have been expensive and
hard to get fixed. That may explain why American surveyors depended
largely on compass readings, as George Washington had, until 1880 or later.

A surveyor's compass was called a circumferentor. It was attached to
the top of a staff. The surveyor would sight, then read his compass.
Surveys were inaccurate because magnetic north changed from point to
point. I doubt it would have been accurate even to measure an angle.
The spindle would have to be precisely centered in the card. Any
friction would interfere with consistent settling of the needle. Iron
carried by the surveyor could also interfere.

In that context, 1465 looks to me like an American answer to the
theodolite. It would have been easy to manufacture, cheap to buy, and
easy to service.

Polished brass has a high contrast to tarnished brass or brass blackened
with sooty smoke. Polishing only the head of the arrow and the top edge
of the tail vane could make it easy to aim the head and read the tail as
an indicator.

Printed paper was popular for compass cards in the 19th Century. The
card may have been a replaceable square border of paper around the brass
base. (The square shape would prevent misalignment.) The card may have
been higher, on a structure secured by the thumb nuts.

I think 1465 was placed on a sort of three-legged stool about four feet
high, in the manner of a plane table. There's a sort of "lugnut" at the
top of the spindle. The flat top of the "lugnut" is about 6 mm wide.
At arm's length, that would be about half a degree. You'd center the
target on the top of the spindle.

The arrow head is only a couple of mm wider than the "lugnut". If you
reach out and nudge the tail until the edges of the polished head are
visible on both sides of the "lugnut", that will align the arrow with
your line of sight, to the target. Now, if the top edge of the tail
vane is polished and the sides are black, you can get consistent
readings on the card by positioning your eye above the tail vane where
you see the brass top edge but neither black side.

I think the screw weight is a friction adjustment. You'd want the arrow
to respond to a light nudge but not a gust of wind. I think with the
weight closest to the spindle the arrow would balance, for minimum
friction. Screwing the weight toward the head would increase friction
between the spindle and the hole in the brass post.

If you were starting a survey with no azimuth for reference, you could
orient the instrument by aligning the cross with the compass needle. If
you had an azimuth for reference, you could set the arrow to the desired
card reading, then orient the instrument by rotating the base to aim the
arrow.

The spindle must be centered on the card to give accurate readings.
This could be checked by setting the instrument on line between two
targets and comparing readings to both targets, then repeating the
process with the base rotated 30, 60, 90, 120 and 150 degrees. If there
were deviations, this would tell the surveyor which way the brass post
was tipped and how far. Pressure on the post could correct this by
bending the metal cross slightly. That could be more practical than
sending an instrument away for service. The cover, which looks tall
enough to latch on without removing the arrow, was probably intended to
protect the post from being pushed out of alignment.

E Z Peaces wrote:
Rob H. wrote:
Four of the six have been answered correctly, on the remaining two I
would bet that the correct ID is probably among the guesses, but they
are difficult to prove one way or the other right now.

http://answers259-8.blogspot.com/


Rob

I've found that 1465 wouldn't have been for mapping battlefields. To
make reconnaissance maps, soldiers used plane tables as surveyors did.

The enlarged top view suggests that it was designed so the spindle could
be aligned at the workbench. On the card, the cardinal points would be
diagonal lines at the four corners. At each corner, the distance from
the spindle is great enough to get a reading with the head or tail.

With the head on each cardinal point, the tail should be precisely over
the opposite. If when the head is on 0 the tail is on 181, try the head
on 180. If the tail is on 1, you need to take the arrow off and
straighten it. If the tail is on 359, you need to need to tip the brass
post east, perhaps as far as the thickness of two sheets of paper. You
would do this by removing the arrow and using a punch to hit the east
arm of the cross. In the photo, it looks as if N,S, and W have already
been hit.

In the photo it's easy to see that the camera is not aligned over the
tail vane. It would be even easier if the top edge were polished bright
yellow.

I'd love to own one! I wonder if Harbor Freight has any Chinese knockoffs.

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2008-11-22, Ed Edelenbos wrote:


"john" wrote in message
...


Item 1470 is definitely a jack and could be used for a number of
purposes. The item is exactly like the machinery jacks I use to set up
odd
shaped parts on a machine so they can be cut except that mine don't have
the fancy designs on them.

[ ... ]

I have a pair of "Machinists Jacks" that belonged to my wife's
grandfather.
When not extended, they are about 1.5" tall.

Were those the ones made by Starrett? They had two sizes, with
the 1-1/2" one being the smaller. The came with two screws -- one with
a conical point, and the other with a tilting pad on a ball. The top
just above the thread was square, with two holes at right angles going
through the square for tommy-bars for actually adjusting them. They
also had (in the full set) a cylindrical spacer to extend the height,
another such spacer with a 'V' in the bottom to place over a round rod,
and a third one with a blunt chisel to fit into a V.

Check out eBay auction # 220315381867 for a good set of photos
of a pair of them.

Of course -- Starrett was not the only maker, just the most
popular -- and they were shop made as well.

They were used on shapers, mills, and planers to support an
irregular casting so the surface to be cut would be parallel to the
travel of the cutter.

Enjoy,
DoN.


It's a General No. 7. Lo and behold, they are still made:

http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/pr...ategoryID=4575

The pair I have are from the 40's or so.

Ed