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T.
 
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Default Maybe We're Getting Through
The subject is troll postings. A lot of you want to just killfile
them, and ignore them. I'm one of those that believe in reporting them.
I'm talking about trolls now, not just someone in the group doing a bit
of trolling. Immense difference there, so don't get 'em confused.

Earlier today, I got this message back, from the mail forwarder I
had forwarded a troll post to, and complained about:

rec.woodworking has been temporarily blocked

Maybe they're tired of getting complaints, or maybe they're just
trying to be good people. Whatever.

So, you guys that want to killfile 'em, then ignore them, how about
reporting them first? Then if it doesn't work, they'll still be
killfiled.

JOAT
You have two choices in life: You can dissolve into the mainstream, or
you can be distinct. To be distinct is to be different. To be different,
you must strive to be what no one else but you can be.
- Alan Ashley-Pitt=A0=A0=A0

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 19 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/

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gabriel
 
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Default Maybe We're Getting Through
T. wrote:

So, you guys that want to killfile 'em, then ignore them, how
about
reporting them first? Then if it doesn't work, they'll still be
killfiled.

Why bother? Petty people will do petty things no matter what... Skipping
to the next message works for me. For people who keep doing it over and
over killfile works well.

-- gabriel
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Nova
 
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Default Maybe We're Getting Through
"T." wrote:

Earlier today, I got this message back, from the mail forwarder I
had forwarded a troll post to, and complained about:

rec.woodworking has been temporarily blocked

It sound to me like the ISP is punishing all because of the actions of a
few. Too bad they just didn't cancel the offending account. How would you
feel if "WebTV" decided to block rec.woodworking?

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)


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Preston Andreas
 
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Default Maybe We're Getting Through
I have complained to the proper "abuse" channels and have gotten quite a few
banned from the newsgroup. Of course some might now be posting under
different names, but at least some may have learned not to post to this
group. If nothing else, JOAT has been under way too much abuse, and
whatever we can do to get rid of these a--holes is worth it. I would
implore anybody seeing these kind of posts, to send an email to the proper
abuse email address.

Preston
"T." wrote in message
...
The subject is troll postings. A lot of you want to just killfile
them, and ignore them. I'm one of those that believe in reporting them.
I'm talking about trolls now, not just someone in the group doing a bit
of trolling. Immense difference there, so don't get 'em confused.

Earlier today, I got this message back, from the mail forwarder I
had forwarded a troll post to, and complained about:

rec.woodworking has been temporarily blocked

Maybe they're tired of getting complaints, or maybe they're just
trying to be good people. Whatever.

So, you guys that want to killfile 'em, then ignore them, how about
reporting them first? Then if it doesn't work, they'll still be
killfiled.

JOAT
You have two choices in life: You can dissolve into the mainstream, or
you can be distinct. To be distinct is to be different. To be different,
you must strive to be what no one else but you can be.
- Alan Ashley-Pitt

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 19 Jan 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/


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B a r r y B u r k e J r .
 
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Default Maybe We're Getting Through
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:32:26 GMT, Nova
wrote:

It sound to me like the ISP is punishing all because of the actions of a
few. Too bad they just didn't cancel the offending account. How would you
feel if "WebTV" decided to block rec.woodworking?

I believe he may be talking about an anonymous email remailer, not an
ISP.

There's a huge difference.

Barry
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J.B. Bobbitt
 
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Default Maybe We're Getting Through
They're suffering a similar plight over at the BBQ newsgroup as well. I
think we're better off, lately.

-JBB


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Swingman
 
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Default Maybe We're Getting Through
"Preston Andreas" wrote in message
I have complained to the proper "abuse" channels and have gotten quite a
few
banned from the newsgroup.

I did exactly that today to "anonymous sender" post ... took all of 30
seconds. Don't know whether it will do any good, but for the time it takes
it was worth a shot. Not at all hard to notice that all the little yuppie
puppies are finally back at college this week.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/16/04


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Greg G.
 
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Default Maybe We're Getting Through
T. said:

Exactly. If we, as a group, make ourselfves enough of a PITA to
trolls, they'll at least leave us alone. And, if the Gods choose, we'll
get some dropped by their ISP. Or, maybe better yet, cause mommy and
daddy to get dropped.

JOAT

I make it a habit, no make that an obsession, to route-trace and
report every spammer than infiltrates my email account. And I report
the more flagrant violations of newsgroups as well. Most ISP's send
an auto-response claiming to investigate every violation, but seldom
is anything actually done. RoadRunner and Earthlink are the worst US
companies for actually *doing* anything, and Shaw.CA and BlueYonder.UK
are the best. And you can forget about getting ANY action from
Chinese or Korean ISPs. Most anon-remailers won't take any action
unless a VERY serious violation of law.

FWIW,

Greg G.
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Lawrence Wasserman
 
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Default Maybe We're Getting Through
In article ,
T. wrote:
The subject is troll postings. A lot of you want to just killfile
them, and ignore them. I'm one of those that believe in reporting them.
I'm talking about trolls now, not just someone in the group doing a bit
of trolling. Immense difference there, so don't get 'em confused.

Earlier today, I got this message back, from the mail forwarder I
had forwarded a troll post to, and complained about:

rec.woodworking has been temporarily blocked
...rest snipped...

Report them to who, and for violating what rule or law?


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland


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gabriel
 
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Default Maybe We're Getting Through
wrote:

What it really comes down to is that there are two types of people in
this world, yes another two types. Those who see something wrong and
try to change it, and those who see something wrong and ignore it.

But who decides it's wrong?

For example, I could see the OP simply as a complainer, and to me, honestly
that is a troll as well. Do I have the right to shut him up simply because
I see no value in a post that does nothing but complain?

On another note, your quote above is poetic, and I'm sure you use it to
justify other things you do, but holds no water for me.

If you want to right wrongs, stop reading the usenet groups and go build
homes in the 3rd world, go teach illiterates, go fight slavery, or join the
peace corps or the UN to combat the various massacres and genocides
occurring in the world. Join the fight against female circumsicion.

Clothing yourself in a white cape while saying "I see something wrong and
try to change it" is a nice tool to attempt to justify bahviors (such as
censorship in this case), but really.... Who are you fooling?

--
gabriel
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gabriel
 
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Default Maybe We're Getting Through
T. wrote:

I guess it's one of those things that if you have to have it
explained to you, you wouldn't understand anyway.

Oh, I understand. I just see it more of a self-gratification thing than a
"save the world" thing. I understand totally.

--
gabriel
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Lawrence Wasserman
 
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Default Maybe We're Getting Through
In article ,
reply-to, is, disabled, to, trap, spam wrote:
Lawrence Wasserman wrote:
Report them to who, and for violating what rule or law?
spamming and abusive posting is against all ISPs Terms of Service. It
may not be against remailers TOS though. As for to whom, get a copy of
Sam Spade and turn your view of headers to "All". Tehre is a place in
the header (Yours) that says: X-Complaints-To: , there is
also a line that tells how it was posted (yours) NNTP-Posting-Host:
207.114.0.133. Address a FWD'd copy of their message showing all the
header in to the X-complaints address, and put the NNTP address into the
box at the top left of Sam Spade and choose Whois. That will sho the
real addy of the posting group, send thema copy of the FWD'd message as
well if it is different than the X-complaint addy. The laws broken
depend on the content of the message. There are many other programs
that will do whois, Look-up and traceroutes, I just suggested Sam Spade
since it is fairly easy to use. Good luck,
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/

Well, I have no argument with this course for abuse and spam, and
in fact have reported such myself many times. But JOAT said trolling
and much trolling just does not fall into the abusive category.
While I may not care for most trolling I see, this is after all
usenet, and if it is not abusive, spam, slanderous, libellous, etc,
what is the violation? I think you are correct that all ISPs TOS
prohibit abuse in many different forms, but "trolling"?




--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland


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gabriel
 
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Default Maybe We're Getting Through
T. wrote:

were never a target. Floods often started with just one or two posts
and then almost drowned us.

Ok, ok, don't get angry about me.

It's not like Bay Area Dave doesn't have it coming. He forced me to find
out how to use the twit filter on my reader.

But, if you are willing to b the subject of a post that says you
are homosexual, or some other patently false statement (I'm takit it on
faith you aren't, but you don't need to say), with obscene words, and
this is cross-posted to other newsgroups, then that is your choice.

Look, long ago I learned that usenet is not the place to put your
identity out there. The only thing easy to find out from my posts is my
first name. This is as big a wasteland as the wild west was 100 years
ago.

without considering there's women and children on here. Woimen for
sure, not too sure how many kids are still allowed, wht with trolls
posting their garbage.

If this is the case, then just keep to the monitored chats/forums, like
woodnet.net or woodworking.com, no?

Personally if I see something that I do not like I have one choice: To
deal with it. I agree this might be too much for some people.

If you aren't familiar with the not so distant floods of crap from
trolls, I suggest you check the archives.

Yeah, the C++ prograsmming newsgroups have me well trained! Those people
are pure evil!

Bah, don't take this too seriously and you'll be fine.

--
gabriel
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Bridger
 
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Default Maybe We're Getting Through
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:08:44 +0000, gabriel wrote:

snip post about the ins and outs of reporting trolls....




Yeah, the C++ prograsmming newsgroups have me well trained!




prograsmming? is that where you really get off on the code you write?

: ^)

Bridger
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  #26   Report Post  
 
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Default Maybe We're Getting Through
gabriel wrote:
But who decides it's wrong?

This is something everybody has to do on their own. If you can't or
won't make the decision, that is your choice as well.

For example, I could see the OP simply as a complainer, and to me, honestly
that is a troll as well. Do I have the right to shut him up simply because
I see no value in a post that does nothing but complain?

That would be your decision.

On another note, your quote above is poetic, and I'm sure you use it to
justify other things you do, but holds no water for me.

I'll tell my wife that you find me poetic, she'll be amused,but thank
you for the compliment.

If you want to right wrongs, stop reading the usenet groups and go build
homes in the 3rd world, go teach illiterates, go fight slavery, or join the
peace corps or the UN to combat the various massacres and genocides
occurring in the world. Join the fight against female circumsicion.

I work in a community hospital working on people who can't or won't pay
their bills or change their behaviors. I make far less than I could
working ofr a for-profit organization, and I've worked to make this a
better world, one way or another for most of my life. I've routinely
put myself in harm's way for strangers, most of whom never new my name
or said thank you. I have scars all over my body from people who
thought that trying to hurt of kill me would make me back down, some are
in jail, some are dead, I remain. I am trying to fix the world that is
local to me, if everryone worked locally, global problems would be fixed
automatically. I fight child and sposal abuse on a nearly daily basis.
My fight has been going on since the early 60's. When did you develop a
need to fight global oppression?

Clothing yourself in a white cape while saying "I see something wrong and
try to change it" is a nice tool to attempt to justify bahviors (such as
censorship in this case), but really.... Who are you fooling?

Since I have scars from a disagreement with the Klan, this is an amusing
question. I'm not fooling anyone. If you knew me you'd know that I
don't bother trying to fool anyone, and only suffer fools under duress.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
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Default Maybe We're Getting Through
Lawrence Wasserman wrote:
Well, I have no argument with this course for abuse and spam, and
in fact have reported such myself many times. But JOAT said trolling
and much trolling just does not fall into the abusive category.
While I may not care for most trolling I see, this is after all
usenet, and if it is not abusive, spam, slanderous, libellous, etc,
what is the violation? I think you are correct that all ISPs TOS
prohibit abuse in many different forms, but "trolling"?

It's possible that I misunderstood JOAT, but from the abuse I've seen
him take over the last year or so, I'd bet that when he said Troll, he
was really referring to was the obscene posting, not some of the amusing
attempts to stir up a thread over nothing. I could be wrong, it's
happened before, perhaps what we need is a clarification from JOAT on
what he was thinking of. Regardless the method I described is useful
for those who don't know how to do it but might want to.

Dave in fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
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Doug Miller
 
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Default Maybe We're Getting Through
In article s.com, gabriel wrote:
T. wrote:

were never a target. Floods often started with just one or two posts
and then almost drowned us.

Ok, ok, don't get angry about me.

It's not like Bay Area Dave doesn't have it coming. He forced me to find
out how to use the twit filter on my reader.

No, he doesn't "have it coming." Not that. Nobody is deserving of such vile
abuse as was directed at JOAT last summer and fall. Check Google and see what
sort of garbage he had to put up with. As annoying as BAD often is, he still
doesn't deserve to be subjected to that sort of trash.
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Default Maybe We're Getting Through
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." wrote:
As annoying as BAD often is, he still
doesn't deserve to be subjected to that sort of trash.

And he puts up with a pile of crap from a lot of people without being
nasty about it. he says some stupid things aometimes, but there aren't
alot of people her with clean hands. How's about the spammer standing
up, I've got a .30-.30 I need to sight in.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
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