Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). For the most part, I
won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. I know about
fluorescents with cold start ballasts. What else do y'all use/suggest? I'm
almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube fluorescents (4') I have
and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.

Ed

"Ed Edelenbos" wrote in message
...
Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). For the most part,
I won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. I know
about fluorescents with cold start ballasts. What else do y'all
use/suggest? I'm almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube
fluorescents (4') I have and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.

Halogens. Set one close to the bench top too to keep the sandwich warm or to
fry eggs.

Add some halogens fixtures on a separate switch. This way you don't run them
when you have adequate light with natural light or the fluorescents, or when
you don't want any added heat in summer. In winter they can light the room
plus add a bit of heat. Bouncing the harsh light off a white ceiling
probably would be best.

Don't use clip on lighting, too easy to dislodge and not enough general
illumination.

"Ed Edelenbos" wrote in message
...
Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). For the most part,
I won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. I know
about fluorescents with cold start ballasts. What else do y'all
use/suggest? I'm almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube
fluorescents (4') I have and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.

Ed

"Ed Edelenbos" wrote in message
...
Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). For the most part,
I won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. I know
about fluorescents with cold start ballasts. What else do y'all
use/suggest? I'm almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube
fluorescents (4') I have and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.


Hey Ed:

I've posted here about a little known secret. Home Depot sells a 2 tube, 4
foot fixture as a simple shop light. I took one of these apart one night
and found that the ballast was rated at 0 degrees Celsius. (14 degrees F).
These are $8 lights. For those of us that don't really need 0 degree start
up, these things work every bit as good as much more expensive fixtures.
And... they only cost $8 apiece.

So - do yourself a favor. Take the shield off one of your lights and look
at the rating of the ballast. You may find that you have a much better
rating than you first thought. You may not have to change anything.

If that's not the case - buy some of those cheap HD fixtures. I've put them
in my garage and I'm in upstate NY. Never had one start slowly since I put
them in.

--

-Mike-

Yeah, I'd second this idea.

I wired outlets on my ceiling for my last shop. I had 8' 1" ceilings so I
attached those $8 fixtures at a 45 to the ceiling along the walls. I think
I had 10 fixtures for a 24x18 space. The walls and ceilings were painted
white. There was plenty of light. I kept the shop at about 40F and took it
to 60F when I was there. The lights took a few mins to warm up, but I never
had any issues.

"Kevin" wrote in message
l.net...
Yeah, I'd second this idea.

I wired outlets on my ceiling for my last shop. I had 8' 1" ceilings so I
attached those $8 fixtures at a 45 to the ceiling along the walls. I
think I had 10 fixtures for a 24x18 space. The walls and ceilings were
painted white. There was plenty of light. I kept the shop at about 40F
and took it to 60F when I was there. The lights took a few mins to warm
up, but I never had any issues.

Thanks guys. My shop is pretty small at 16x12 (it's under my back deck).
It is just framing and the exterior plywood sheathing with minimal outside
light getting in. I only have a pair of four foot 2-tube fixtures in there
now. Without a doubt, I need more. I'll probably do another pair of 2 tube
fixtures and set up some spot lighting. I seem to be needing more light
these days.

Ed

"Ed Edelenbos" wrote in message
...

"Kevin" wrote in message
l.net...
Yeah, I'd second this idea.

I wired outlets on my ceiling for my last shop. I had 8' 1" ceilings so
I attached those $8 fixtures at a 45 to the ceiling along the walls. I
think I had 10 fixtures for a 24x18 space. The walls and ceilings were
painted white. There was plenty of light. I kept the shop at about 40F
and took it to 60F when I was there. The lights took a few mins to warm
up, but I never had any issues.

Thanks guys. My shop is pretty small at 16x12 (it's under my back deck).
It is just framing and the exterior plywood sheathing with minimal outside
light getting in. I only have a pair of four foot 2-tube fixtures in
there now. Without a doubt, I need more. I'll probably do another pair
of 2 tube fixtures and set up some spot lighting. I seem to be needing
more light these days.

Ed


Totally OT here Ed but have you considered insulating the exterior walls?
Add a very small electric heater (the oil filled ones are good for
eliminating the exposed coil to the hazards of sawdust) and you have
effectively extended your use by a season or so (thinkiing the pick-up of
early spring and later fall here). JAT

Go to ww.watlow.com.

They make a transparent, thin film wrap for fluorescwnt tubes.

The company I work for builds cold roms and some customers specify them
instead of instead of incandescent bulbs.

We install and wire the tube covers as always on but with a B-10 type tstst
in series to control the heaters at around 45 Farenheit.

This works fairly well.

..





"Ed Edelenbos" wrote in message
...
Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). For the most part,
I won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. I know
about fluorescents with cold start ballasts. What else do y'all
use/suggest? I'm almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube
fluorescents (4') I have and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.

Ed

Mike Marlow wrote:

I've posted here about a little known secret. Home Depot sells a 2 tube, 4
foot fixture as a simple shop light. I took one of these apart one night
and found that the ballast was rated at 0 degrees Celsius. (14 degrees F).
These are $8 lights. For those of us that don't really need 0 degree start
up, these things work every bit as good as much more expensive fixtures.
And... they only cost $8 apiece.

I needed a ballast for one of my shop lights last year and bought one at
home depot for about twice or more as much as that light you mention. I
was going to buy the whole light, take out the ballast and put the light
out for rubbish. I was too damn lazy to do all that, so I spent the
extra money. I'm still kicking myself for that one, cheap as I am...

Amazing they sell whole light fixture with ballast for far less than
just the ballast...

--
Jack
http://jbstein.com

In article s.com,
p says...
Add some halogens fixtures on a separate switch. This way you don't run them
when you have adequate light with natural light or the fluorescents, or when
you don't want any added heat in summer. In winter they can light the room
plus add a bit of heat. Bouncing the harsh light off a white ceiling
probably would be best.

Put the halogens near the fluorescents. If light is needed in cold
weather, halogens will heat the fluorescents. After an appropriate
time, turn fluorescents on and halogens off.

Don't use clip on lighting, too easy to dislodge and not enough general
illumination.

I bought a wall mounted halogen spot from HF for over the bench when
additional light is needed. It works quite well. Here is a two
light model:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...af?Itemnumber=
94035

snipped bottom quotes

--
Keith

In article ,
says...

"Ed Edelenbos" wrote in message
...
Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). For the most part,
I won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. I know
about fluorescents with cold start ballasts. What else do y'all
use/suggest? I'm almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube
fluorescents (4') I have and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.


Hey Ed:

I've posted here about a little known secret. Home Depot sells a 2 tube, 4
foot fixture as a simple shop light. I took one of these apart one night
and found that the ballast was rated at 0 degrees Celsius. (14 degrees F).

0C = 32F

These are $8 lights. For those of us that don't really need 0 degree start
up, these things work every bit as good as much more expensive fixtures.
And... they only cost $8 apiece.

So - do yourself a favor. Take the shield off one of your lights and look
at the rating of the ballast. You may find that you have a much better
rating than you first thought. You may not have to change anything.

If that's not the case - buy some of those cheap HD fixtures. I've put them
in my garage and I'm in upstate NY. Never had one start slowly since I put
them in.

I had an expensive ceiling light from the BORG that would start dim
and not brighten for a half hour, *inside*, in the winter.
Fluorescents and cold are a crap shoot. A small change to the
ballast and it won't start. A change of manufacturers isn't often
small. ;-)

--
Keith

In article , chizzard52
@yahoo.com says...

"Ed Edelenbos" wrote in message
...

"Kevin" wrote in message
l.net...
Yeah, I'd second this idea.

I wired outlets on my ceiling for my last shop. I had 8' 1" ceilings so
I attached those $8 fixtures at a 45 to the ceiling along the walls. I
think I had 10 fixtures for a 24x18 space. The walls and ceilings were
painted white. There was plenty of light. I kept the shop at about 40F
and took it to 60F when I was there. The lights took a few mins to warm
up, but I never had any issues.

Thanks guys. My shop is pretty small at 16x12 (it's under my back deck).
It is just framing and the exterior plywood sheathing with minimal outside
light getting in. I only have a pair of four foot 2-tube fixtures in
there now. Without a doubt, I need more. I'll probably do another pair
of 2 tube fixtures and set up some spot lighting. I seem to be needing
more light these days.

Ed


Totally OT here Ed but have you considered insulating the exterior walls?
Add a very small electric heater (the oil filled ones are good for
eliminating the exposed coil to the hazards of sawdust) and you have
effectively extended your use by a season or so (thinkiing the pick-up of
early spring and later fall here). JAT

....and a window? Light and fresh air is good.

--
Keith

"krw" wrote in message
t...
In article , chizzard52
@yahoo.com says...

"Ed Edelenbos" wrote in message
...

"Kevin" wrote in message
l.net...
Yeah, I'd second this idea.

I wired outlets on my ceiling for my last shop. I had 8' 1" ceilings
so
I attached those $8 fixtures at a 45 to the ceiling along the walls.
I
think I had 10 fixtures for a 24x18 space. The walls and ceilings
were
painted white. There was plenty of light. I kept the shop at about
40F
and took it to 60F when I was there. The lights took a few mins to
warm
up, but I never had any issues.

Thanks guys. My shop is pretty small at 16x12 (it's under my back
deck).
It is just framing and the exterior plywood sheathing with minimal
outside
light getting in. I only have a pair of four foot 2-tube fixtures in
there now. Without a doubt, I need more. I'll probably do another
pair
of 2 tube fixtures and set up some spot lighting. I seem to be needing
more light these days.

Ed


Totally OT here Ed but have you considered insulating the exterior walls?
Add a very small electric heater (the oil filled ones are good for
eliminating the exposed coil to the hazards of sawdust) and you have
effectively extended your use by a season or so (thinkiing the pick-up
of
early spring and later fall here). JAT

...and a window? Light and fresh air is good.

--
Keith

I appreciate the comments... though the short story of it is, it's a lost
cause trying to heat this space until I put up a better ceiling. I do have
a few windows and the doors even have large glass panels but it isn't enough
light for working, even when the light is just right.

Ed

Hey Ed:

I've posted here about a little known secret. Home Depot sells a 2 tube,
4 foot fixture as a simple shop light. I took one of these apart one
night and found that the ballast was rated at 0 degrees Celsius. (14
degrees F). These are $8 lights.

Sorry Mike, but 0 degrees Celsius is not 14 degrees F. -- it is 32 degrees
F. the freezing/thawing point of water -- a lot warmer than 14 degrees.

On Oct 11, 6:51*pm, "Ed Edelenbos" wrote:
Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). *For the most part, I
won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. *I know about
fluorescents with cold start ballasts. *What else do y'all use/suggest? *I'm
almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube fluorescents (4') I have
and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.

Ed

Look for T8 4' fixtures. Two tubes per fixture. Gobs of light, cold
start, low cost to buy, cheap to run.
Get as many as you need. $ 100.00 will do your shop.

"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...

Hey Ed:

I've posted here about a little known secret. Home Depot sells a 2 tube,
4 foot fixture as a simple shop light. I took one of these apart one
night and found that the ballast was rated at 0 degrees Celsius. (14
degrees F). These are $8 lights.

Sorry Mike, but 0 degrees Celsius is not 14 degrees F. -- it is 32 degrees
F. the freezing/thawing point of water -- a lot warmer than 14 degrees.

Damn it! You're right and this is the second time I've screwed this up.
Sorry - my bad - the rating is -10 degrees C.


--

-Mike-

The problem with fluorescent ligts is not the ballasts but the tubes.

When they fet cold, the chemical critters in the tube do not get agitated
enough and as a result they do not produce the rated light.

The only solution I have seen is to heat the tubes with the jacket heaters.





"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...

Hey Ed:

I've posted here about a little known secret. Home Depot sells a 2 tube,
4 foot fixture as a simple shop light. I took one of these apart one
night and found that the ballast was rated at 0 degrees Celsius. (14
degrees F). These are $8 lights.

Sorry Mike, but 0 degrees Celsius is not 14 degrees F. -- it is 32 degrees
F. the freezing/thawing point of water -- a lot warmer than 14 degrees.

On Oct 11, 6:51*pm, "Ed Edelenbos" wrote:
Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). *For the most part, I
won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. *I know about
fluorescents with cold start ballasts. *What else do y'all use/suggest? *I'm
almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube fluorescents (4') I have
and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.

Ed

I have an unheated shop and I have both 4' and 8' 2-tube lights. Even
when it's real cold, they light. At first they aren't real bright,
but as they warm up, they are ok.

Dave

wrote:
On Oct 11, 6:51 pm, "Ed Edelenbos" wrote:
Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). For the most part, I
won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. I know about
fluorescents with cold start ballasts. What else do y'all use/suggest? I'm
almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube fluorescents (4') I have
and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.

Ed

I have an unheated shop and I have both 4' and 8' 2-tube lights. Even
when it's real cold, they light. At first they aren't real bright,
but as they warm up, they are ok.

When I was a kid, our garage was heated but only when we were working on
something. Our winters get cold, often below zero and I never recall a
time any of the fluorescent lights not lighting up due to the cold.


--
Jack
http://jbstein.com

Jack Stein wrote:

wrote:
On Oct 11, 6:51 pm, "Ed Edelenbos" wrote:
Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). For the most
part, I
won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. I know
about
fluorescents with cold start ballasts. What else do y'all use/suggest?
I'm almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube fluorescents (4')
I have and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.

Ed

I have an unheated shop and I have both 4' and 8' 2-tube lights. Even
when it's real cold, they light. At first they aren't real bright,
but as they warm up, they are ok.

When I was a kid, our garage was heated but only when we were working on
something. Our winters get cold, often below zero and I never recall a
time any of the fluorescent lights not lighting up due to the cold.



As the lights and starters age, the startup gets worse. We used
fluorescent bulbs in the barn, as they aged, it eventually got to the point
that one had to rub the bulbs to get them to start up.

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
m...
Jack Stein wrote:

wrote:
On Oct 11, 6:51 pm, "Ed Edelenbos" wrote:
Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). For the most
part, I
won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. I know
about
fluorescents with cold start ballasts. What else do y'all use/suggest?
I'm almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube fluorescents (4')
I have and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.

Ed

I have an unheated shop and I have both 4' and 8' 2-tube lights. Even
when it's real cold, they light. At first they aren't real bright,
but as they warm up, they are ok.

When I was a kid, our garage was heated but only when we were working on
something. Our winters get cold, often below zero and I never recall a
time any of the fluorescent lights not lighting up due to the cold.



As the lights and starters age, the startup gets worse. We used
fluorescent bulbs in the barn, as they aged, it eventually got to the
point
that one had to rub the bulbs to get them to start up.

--

Oh the places one could go with a straight line like that. (grin)

Ed

Ed Edelenbos wrote:



"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
m...
.... snip
As the lights and starters age, the startup gets worse. We used
fluorescent bulbs in the barn, as they aged, it eventually got to the
point
that one had to rub the bulbs to get them to start up.

--

Oh the places one could go with a straight line like that. (grin)

Ed

Yeah, I briefly thought about that before I hit "send", but then
remembered that this was going to a group of professionals who would never
abuse succinct, clear descriptions. ;-)

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
m...
Ed Edelenbos wrote:



"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
m...
... snip
As the lights and starters age, the startup gets worse. We used
fluorescent bulbs in the barn, as they aged, it eventually got to the
point
that one had to rub the bulbs to get them to start up.

--

Oh the places one could go with a straight line like that. (grin)

Ed

Yeah, I briefly thought about that before I hit "send", but then
remembered that this was going to a group of professionals who would never
abuse succinct, clear descriptions. ;-)

Well... I'm not sure which is worse, my preference for wafting warm air at
it with a heat gun, or your suggestion.