Hi -

I've been approached by a customer to make some furniture and
furnishings from pine in kind of a southwest style (to yet be
determined what that means to the customer). I've done most of my
furniture building with quality hardwoods so I have some questions if
you'd care to comment.

If you've done both hardwood and softwood furniture building, are
there any key differences you'd like to share with me?

Do you favor the softer fir/pine or the harder southern yellow pine?
Major differences?

Is there significant resin build up on your tools working with
softwoods?

How do you deal with the fact that the softwood are not dried to the
extent that hardwood
typically are?

Where do you get your furniture grade softwoods?

Any help would be appreciated - thanks!

Les

LesT wrote:
....
Do you favor the softer fir/pine or the harder southern yellow pine?
Major differences?

Definitely recommend against SYP for interior furniture use. It's not
as attractive with much more prevalent grain and tends to split off
edges and splinters far worse than white pines and related. Fir is a
great wood to work but also has splinter issues if not careful about
grain direction along edges.

Is there significant resin build up on your tools working with
softwoods?

Over time, yes. No big deal, it cleans...

How do you deal with the fact that the softwood are not dried to the
extent that hardwood typically are?

Where do you get your furniture grade softwoods?

Both together from the same distributors. If not buying just
construction grade softwood it's graded and marketed very little
different than hardwoods.

--

On Oct 6, 3:08*pm, LesT wrote:
Hi -

I've been approached by a customer to make some furniture and
furnishings from pine in kind of a southwest style (to yet be
determined what that means to the customer). I've done most of my
furniture building with quality hardwoods so I have some questions if
you'd care to comment.

SNIP of interesting questions...

Wow.... a real woodworking question.

Down here in the southern half of the US, like waaay down in the
southern half of Texas, we are not blessed with hardwoods growing
along the roadsides. Unless you start going north, our climate
doesn't support them well, and they aren't native to our area.

So for many years, a great deal of furniture, projects, hobby stuff,
"California waterbed furniture" (60s, 70s) were all built out of pine
because it was plentiful and cheap.

Make sure you know what you are getting into when you are using soft
woods; there are a lot of look alike woods that are soft, and there
are some look alike woods that are hard.

At this point down here, we are probably in the same boat you are when
buying soft pine. We go to the hardwood supplier and buy it from
him. That way we can see it, touch it and make sure they didn't sneak
fir, hemlock (miserable, miserable stuff) or different runs of pine
in.

My personal experience (read: what I have bought around here for the
last 30+ years) is that pine is not dried nearly as well or uniformly
as hardwoods. It moves more, and certain styles of construction that
will allow for wood movement (breadboard ends, non captured inserts in
cabinet doors, expansion areas on cabinet backs, etc.) must be used.
Pine will shrink, but then in humidity will also go back to size.

I have had the best luck using pine if I let it dry out for about 6
months in a well aired place before using.

Since pine is softer, it will splinter and dig easier than many
hardwoods. But with sharp saw blades and edged tools, it is like
cutting butter, a real joy.
It is easy to sand to shape when you want to ease over a corner or
match one profile to another.

Depending on when your wood was cut and how it was processed, soft
woods can be quite resinous. Plan on changing sandpaper often. When
we were doing pine cabinets (mid 70s?) we used to soak our saw blades
and steel router bits in a pan of kerosene to get the resin off of
them. It wipes off easily the next morning if you do. Obviously,
there are better things to use these days than kerosene. The bit
cleaner from Eagle America works quite well.

When you finish any softwood, you should plan on a conditioner of some
type unless are just applying a clear finish of some sort. Most
softwoods don't take stain evenly, and a conditioner will do the trick
to keep it the absorption of the color even.

My personal experience is that pine will amber more quickly to yellow
if it is finished with varnishes, polys, or other long oil finishes.
I have been told, but don't know, that it is because of the amount of
resin in the wood reacting to the chemicals in the finish. It has to
be something though, as I have noticed a pretty good difference in the
colors over a period or years.

I have a tendency to lean towards a high quality lacquer. I might be
tempted to even try one of the water based lacquers.

I have never finished pine with straight oil of any type as it offers
so little protection for the soft stuff that it is almost pointless.
That soft wood has little abrasion resistance, second only to its
inability to cope with water/moisture.

Good luck on your project. I hope you let us know how it goes!

Robert

"LesT" wrote in message
...
Hi -

I've been approached by a customer to make some furniture and
furnishings from pine in kind of a southwest style (to yet be
determined what that means to the customer). I've done most of my
furniture building with quality hardwoods so I have some questions if
you'd care to comment.

If you've done both hardwood and softwood furniture building, are
there any key differences you'd like to share with me?

Do you favor the softer fir/pine or the harder southern yellow pine?
Major differences?

Is there significant resin build up on your tools working with
softwoods?

How do you deal with the fact that the softwood are not dried to the
extent that hardwood
typically are?

Where do you get your furniture grade softwoods?

Any help would be appreciated - thanks!

Les

Take a look at some of these pictures
http://flickr.com/photos/mdinep/sets/72157603066528456/

The entertainment center is Red Oak. The hall table is Ponderosa and
Eastern White Pine.
The bookcases (painted white) are fir plywood and yellow pine.
Adirondack chairs, yellow pine.
Small bar sink, fir plywood and yellow pine.
Workbench, yellow pine
Bathroom cabinet and mirror (for my shop), fir plywood and yellow pine
Chest of drawers, white pine.
Router table, white pine.
I have used Oak, Ash, Hickory, and Maple for kitchen cabinets. The only
wood I don't much care for is Maple (hard)
My experience with yellow pine is that some splitting occasionally
occurs. "Climb cutting" when routing will help.
Sharp tools are essential.
The "Southwestern" style that's in vogue around here (El Paso, TX)
looks best in either oak or ponderosa pine but if you have access to
eastern white pine most people can't tell the difference.
We have a lumber supplier here, Austin Hardwoods, that stocks both
hardwoods and softwoods.
Good luck,

Max

On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 13:08:59 -0700 (PDT), LesT wrote:

Hi -

I've been approached by a customer to make some furniture and
furnishings from pine in kind of a southwest style (to yet be
determined what that means to the customer). I've done most of my
furniture building with quality hardwoods so I have some questions if
you'd care to comment.

If you've done both hardwood and softwood furniture building, are
there any key differences you'd like to share with me?

Softwoods don't stain well and it's often difficult to get a sharp
clean edge with softwoods.


Do you favor the softer fir/pine or the harder southern yellow pine?
Major differences?

Depends on what I'm making. I have made several pieces of furniture
in pine (bed, dresser, cabinet, gate-leg table, utility table,
benches, chair seats), but I like maple, oak, cherry, butternut and
walnut too.


Is there significant resin build up on your tools working with
softwoods?

Pine puts a lot of resin on the working tools.


How do you deal with the fact that the softwood are not dried to the
extent that hardwood
typically are?

I test with a moisture meter.


Where do you get your furniture grade softwoods?

Several places, mostly through a wood dealer and usually rough sawn.


Any help would be appreciated - thanks!

Les

LesT wrote:

Hi -

I've been approached by a customer to make some furniture and
furnishings from pine in kind of a southwest style (to yet be
determined what that means to the customer). I've done most of my
furniture building with quality hardwoods so I have some questions if
you'd care to comment.


I did my first project using pine because I didn't want to "ruin" good
hardwood.


If you've done both hardwood and softwood furniture building, are
there any key differences you'd like to share with me?


The biggest thing I found was that one must be extremely careful handling
pine components. They will gouge and dent when you even look at them
funny.

Do you favor the softer fir/pine or the harder southern yellow pine?
Major differences?


Can't comment on that, I only worked with soft pine.

Is there significant resin build up on your tools working with
softwoods?


I found a fair amount of build-up on my sawblade in particular, the other
tools (jointer, planer, router bits) not so much.

How do you deal with the fact that the softwood are not dried to the
extent that hardwood
typically are?


Definitely exercise care in the design to allow for wood movement. Even
though it was my first project, I was very careful in the design to allow
for wood movement. The piece has held up well over the past 11 years, even
surviving a move from the semi-humid Dallas area to the desert southwest
with no cracks or splits.

Where do you get your furniture grade softwoods?


Got mine from a regular hardwood supplier in Lewisville, TX. Make sure
you trust the place from which you are buying.

Any help would be appreciated - thanks!

Les

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

LesT wrote:
Hi -

I've been approached by a customer to make some furniture and
furnishings from pine in kind of a southwest style (to yet be
determined what that means to the customer). I've done most of my
furniture building with quality hardwoods so I have some questions if
you'd care to comment.

If you've done both hardwood and softwood furniture building, are
there any key differences you'd like to share with me?

Do you favor the softer fir/pine or the harder southern yellow pine?
Major differences?

Is there significant resin build up on your tools working with
softwoods?

How do you deal with the fact that the softwood are not dried to the
extent that hardwood
typically are?

Where do you get your furniture grade softwoods?

Any help would be appreciated - thanks!

Les


Made a ton of pine "furniture" using 1 x 12" pine shelving boards from
the Borg. You need to do a bit of sorting to minimize
warps/twists/knots, but the small/tight knots add a little "character".


Where's Jummy when we need him?

"LesT" wrote in message
...
Hi -

I've been approached by a customer to make some furniture and
furnishings from pine in kind of a southwest style (to yet be
determined what that means to the customer). I've done most of my
furniture building with quality hardwoods so I have some questions if
you'd care to comment.

If you've done both hardwood and softwood furniture building, are
there any key differences you'd like to share with me?

Do you favor the softer fir/pine or the harder southern yellow pine?
Major differences?

Is there significant resin build up on your tools working with
softwoods?

How do you deal with the fact that the softwood are not dried to the
extent that hardwood
typically are?

Where do you get your furniture grade softwoods?

Any help would be appreciated - thanks!

Les


Not sure what your customer wants?? G
Before you/they decide what, check out longleaf pine and mesquite. neither
is cheap, longleaf around here, Tx Hill Country, starts at $5bft, select $9.
Mesquite starts at $10. I like mesquite. That should give the SW flavor.

LesT wrote:
Hi -

I've been approached by a customer to make some furniture and
furnishings from pine in kind of a southwest style (to yet be
determined what that means to the customer). I've done most of my
furniture building with quality hardwoods so I have some questions if
you'd care to comment.

If you've done both hardwood and softwood furniture building, are
there any key differences you'd like to share with me?

Do you favor the softer fir/pine or the harder southern yellow pine?
Major differences?

You do NOT want SYP. It is hard and heavy but is also very resinous and
rather coarse and unattractive. The resin is NP with cutting tools but it
is a PITA with stationary sanders.

Fir - Douglas fir - isn't all that soft. In fact, it is pretty hard. I
doubt it would give the look your customer wants though; for that, I'd
suggest either ponderosa pine (a western wood) or eastern white pine. Maybe
lodgepole pine (another western wood).

Where do you get your furniture grade softwoods?

Some info on western woods...
http://www.softwood.org/PPWeb/EN/PPine.htm
..
Sources for EWP. Both are reliable.
http://www.hardwoodstore.com/lumber.html
http://www.walllumber.com/soft.asp



--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Here's a link to a page of general characteristics of many species of woods
including soft woods. Watch for wrap.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fp...acteristics%22


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"LesT" wrote

I've been approached by a customer to make some furniture and
furnishings from pine in kind of a southwest style (to yet be
determined what that means to the customer).

"Vertical Grain Douglas Fir"

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/18/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Oct 7, 8:01*am, "dadiOH" wrote:
Here's a link to a page of general characteristics of many species of woods
including soft woods. *Watch for wrap.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fp....pdf#search=%2....

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Good one. Thanks for the link.

r

Thanks for all the responses, they definitely gave me
a solid foundation to begin on the project.

Les

There is such a thing as "furniture grade" SYP but it
is very hard to come by. Most of the good stuff is shipped
over to europe, where them boys are wild about our pine.

Here is at least one source that I'm aware of:

http://www.walllumber.com/soft.asp


Be aware that that SYP is the hardest soft wood you
have ever used. It will splinter and chip unless you
are using very sharp blades.

It will also leave the most pleasant odor ever left
in shop after some sawing.

You will want "ONLY" kiln dried furniture grade
SYP. Do not attempt to use any syp from an unknown
source. SYP will punish you with some of the most
amazing movement seen since Elvis.


Finishing can be a real challenge but I'll leave that
to Robert and Barry and others who really know how to
finish.



LesT wrote:
Hi -

Where do you get your furniture grade softwoods?

Any help would be appreciated - thanks!

Les

"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
Here's a link to a page of general characteristics of many species of
woods including soft woods. Watch for wrap.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fp...acteristics%22

Nice resource. The full document, all chapters and frontal matter, is at
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fp.../fplgtr113.pdf. The parent
directory is FTP searchable, and contains the individual chapters.

On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:36:20 GMT, Pat Barber
wrote:

There is such a thing as "furniture grade" SYP but it
is very hard to come by. Most of the good stuff is shipped
over to europe, where them boys are wild about our pine.

Here is at least one source that I'm aware of:

http://www.walllumber.com/soft.asp


Be aware that that SYP is the hardest soft wood you
have ever used. It will splinter and chip unless you
are using very sharp blades.

It will also leave the most pleasant odor ever left
in shop after some sawing.

You will want "ONLY" kiln dried furniture grade
SYP. Do not attempt to use any syp from an unknown
source. SYP will punish you with some of the most
amazing movement seen since Elvis.


Finishing can be a real challenge but I'll leave that
to Robert and Barry and others who really know how to
finish.



LesT wrote:
Hi -

Where do you get your furniture grade softwoods?

Any help would be appreciated - thanks!

Les



I like working with clear white pine when I can get it. it is very
warp resistant and resists splintering. No knots. Straight grain.
Almost like Sitka spruce. Also quite light.

But it DOES ding easily and does not wear well.
Makes good door frames (jambs) and windoe sash.
But try to find the stuff anymore!! At ANY price (and it IS expensive
when you can find it here in Ontario)
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Where's Jummy when we need him?-

I forwarded this to Jums, and got this back:

Now that's hysterical Nahmie. I've actually gotten back into it a
bit . . . I built everything you see in this picture . . . including
the counter top and built in the bbq and refrigerator. I've found
something better than pine . . . REDWOOD!

Really had a lot of fun making the sawdust!

Jummy . . .

(picture of patio with wood "couch" padded w/ pillows, slatted top end
table & coffee table, "bar" with mentioned built-ins)



Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:26:26 -0700 (PDT), Nahmie
wrote:



Where's Jummy when we need him?-

I forwarded this to Jums, and got this back:

Let me say that you suck for having spoken with Jums and that is a
qualified registered neener.

Also, let me inform you both that good pine is, and has been for some
time. more expensive than many of the au courant hardwoods, which
should add to the cachet.

However, Jummywood is still Jummywood, even at $6.00 a board foot for
AHVG stuff.


t

On Oct 10, 6:14*pm, t wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:26:26 -0700 (PDT), Nahmie
wrote:



Where's Jummy when we need him?-

I forwarded this to Jums, and got this back:

Let me say that you suck for having spoken with Jums and that is a
qualified registered neener.

Also, let me inform you both that goodpineis, and has been for some
time. more expensive than many of the au courant hardwoods, which
should add to the cachet.

However, Jummywood is still Jummywood, even at $6.00 a board foot for
AHVG stuff.

t

Alright you guys . . . do you think I could sit back here in Las Vegas
and NOT talk about Jummywood . . . the greatest invention ever made?
LOL!

So here is comes from the "Jummywood/PineKing/Minwax Mac" Master of
all times! I always preferred yellow pine and if you're going to be
using a Southwest style, I preferred wood with knots and strategically
locate them within the piece. For example, a cabinet with knots on
the doors or in the back that can be seen is an outstanding look.
However you must be certain that the knots are solid. When I bought
my pine from the borg (see guys . . . I still remember the lingo from
the old Future Collectible days) I would run them through my planer.
Very light - EXTREMELY light passes would remove most all of the mill
works lines off of them. When working with pine use very sharp
blades. The planer blades had to be a polished sharp and the thinnest
kerf on a Woodworker II blade with a stiffener is the best. Pine is a
very forgiving wood. If you dent it simply put a few drops of water
in the dents and they swell back up. Don't over sand the wood -
usually anything finer than a 120 grit will close the pores and you
won't get very much absorption with your stain. A little bit of
Titebond II goes a very long way with pine too. I have used Gorilla
glue with it but if you over use it and it foams out, the pine will
absorb the excess and it will not accept the stain. I made a living
building pine furniture for quite a few years. Now that my shop is
gone, I'm still holding on to a few tools and have built a complete
patio set in my backyard here in Vegas. I'm working on an 8' diameter
redwood table that will be an octagon. And by the way - if anyone can
give me the formula for measuring the exact lengths for the outside
border pieces including the angles, this old country boy would be
extremely grateful! A quick shout out to Nahmie for reminding me that
there is life after divorce and that there is still sawdust in my
future! Life is good . . . I married last March to a beautiful
Christian girl. To my partner in Aussie land, my old sailor Dave and
to the hundreds of others who were always there with a sharp chisel, a
laugh, and a smile . . . thanks for always being there guys. Now come
to Las Vegas and hear our band!
www.brazosriverband.com I didn't make the guitars but I
sure do play them!
Jums (aka Jim McNamara - not the one with the stains . . . the one
with the Pine!)

wrote:
[snip]
t

Alright you guys . . . do you think I could sit back here in Las Vegas
and NOT talk about Jummywood . . . the greatest invention ever made?
LOL!


Welcome back Jums. Always good to hear from you (mostly). In your
absence, I have been diligent in mentioning Jummywood (or Pacific
Jummywood (fir)) from time to time. No body ever asks what the hell
Jummywood is which means that either everybody knows or nobody gives a
****. For ever and sometimes,
and mahalo,
jo4hn

On Oct 14, 11:20*am, jo4hn wrote:
wrote:

[snip]

t

Alright you guys . . . do you think I could sit back here in Las Vegas
and NOT talk about Jummywood . . . the greatest invention ever made?
LOL!

Welcome back Jums. *Always good to hear from you (mostly). *In your
absence, I have been diligent in mentioning Jummywood (or Pacific
Jummywood (fir)) from time to time. *No body ever asks what the hell
Jummywood is which means that either everybody knows or nobody gives a
****. *For ever and sometimes,
* * * * and mahalo,
* * * * jo4hn

Mahalo Jo4hn! WOW . . . this is like taking a trip back in time! I
actually went to Oahu a year ago and was amazed at some of the
tropical woods I saw in some of the furniture in the local shops.
What a treat that was. As you can tell . . . I'm not making a lot of
sawdust right now . . . the economy out here is the nation's worst
when it comes to real estate and since Las Vegas is a tourist town -
the airline fares are taking their toll. I did finally put together
the best country show band this town has seen in many years. We only
perform at the major casino showrooms now and it's a lot of fun. I'm
just about finished building the redwood furniture in the backyard and
since we only get about 4: of rain here a year and the humidity is
usually below 6% - you can build anything out here. I'm going to try
and archive the old "Jummywood" story and see how long things stay
around here! LOL!

Good to hear from you bro . . .

Jums

On Oct 14, 3:20 pm, jo4hn wrote:
wrote:

[snip]

t

Alright you guys . . . do you think I could sit back here in Las Vegas
and NOT talk about Jummywood . . . the greatest invention ever made?
LOL!

Welcome back Jums. Always good to hear from you (mostly). In your
absence, I have been diligent in mentioning Jummywood (or Pacific
Jummywood (fir)) from time to time. No body ever asks what the hell
Jummywood is which means that either everybody knows or nobody gives a
****. For ever and sometimes,
and mahalo,
jo4hn

Why.... of course!! Jummywood!! Why didn't you say so? Jummywood good
stuff.

(There are some people who are afraid to ask wtf a certain kind of
wood is.... at the risk of sounding stoopid.)

My guess is wood from the Jummy tree?.

On Oct 14, 11:32*am, Robatoy wrote:
On Oct 14, 3:20 pm, jo4hn wrote:





wrote:

[snip]

t

Alright you guys . . . do you think I could sit back here in Las Vegas
and NOT talk about Jummywood . . . the greatest invention ever made?
LOL!

Welcome back Jums. *Always good to hear from you (mostly). *In your
absence, I have been diligent in mentioning Jummywood (or Pacific
Jummywood (fir)) from time to time. *No body ever asks what the hell
Jummywood is which means that either everybody knows or nobody gives a
****. *For ever and sometimes,
* * * * and mahalo,
* * * * jo4hn

Why.... of course!! Jummywood!! Why didn't you say so? Jummywood good
stuff.

(There are some people who are afraid to ask wtf a certain kind of
wood is.... at the risk of sounding stoopid.)

My guess is wood from theJummytree?.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

JUMMYWOOD TREES? LOL! Take a look at the latest post concerning
Jummywood, Robatoy . . . the truth may be too much to handle! LOL!

Jums

On Oct 14, 3:35*pm, wrote:
On Oct 14, 11:32*am, Robatoy wrote:



On Oct 14, 3:20 pm, jo4hn wrote:

wrote:

[snip]

t

Alright you guys . . . do you think I could sit back here in Las Vegas
and NOT talk about Jummywood . . . the greatest invention ever made?
LOL!

Welcome back Jums. *Always good to hear from you (mostly). *In your
absence, I have been diligent in mentioning Jummywood (or Pacific
Jummywood (fir)) from time to time. *No body ever asks what the hell
Jummywood is which means that either everybody knows or nobody gives a
****. *For ever and sometimes,
* * * * and mahalo,
* * * * jo4hn

Why.... of course!! Jummywood!! Why didn't you say so? Jummywood good
stuff.

(There are some people who are afraid to ask wtf a certain kind of
wood is.... at the risk of sounding stoopid.)

My guess is wood from theJummytree?.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

JUMMYWOOD TREES? *LOL! *Take a look at the latest post concerning
Jummywood, Robatoy . . . the truth may be too much to handle! * LOL!

Jums

I guess you have been away for a long time. Jummywood trees are found
all over. The best of them all is Jum Arabica.
Other varieties of the species are (as opposed to the sugar maple)
Sugarless Jum, Wintergreen Jum and Spearmint Jum, the latter being a
favourite amongst hunters.

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:46:36 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Oct 10, 6:14*pm, t wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:26:26 -0700 (PDT), Nahmie
wrote:



Where's Jummy when we need him?-

I forwarded this to Jums, and got this back:

Let me say that you suck for having spoken with Jums and that is a
qualified registered neener.

Also, let me inform you both that goodpineis, and has been for some
time. more expensive than many of the au courant hardwoods, which
should add to the cachet.

However, Jummywood is still Jummywood, even at $6.00 a board foot for
AHVG stuff.

t

Alright you guys . . . do you think I could sit back here in Las Vegas
and NOT talk about Jummywood . . . the greatest invention ever made?
LOL!

So here is comes from the "Jummywood/PineKing/Minwax Mac" Master of
all times! I always preferred yellow pine and if you're going to be
using a Southwest style, I preferred wood with knots and strategically
locate them within the piece. For example, a cabinet with knots on
the doors or in the back that can be seen is an outstanding look.
However you must be certain that the knots are solid. When I bought
my pine from the borg (see guys . . . I still remember the lingo from
the old Future Collectible days) I would run them through my planer.
Very light - EXTREMELY light passes would remove most all of the mill
works lines off of them. When working with pine use very sharp
blades. The planer blades had to be a polished sharp and the thinnest
kerf on a Woodworker II blade with a stiffener is the best. Pine is a
very forgiving wood. If you dent it simply put a few drops of water
in the dents and they swell back up. Don't over sand the wood -
usually anything finer than a 120 grit will close the pores and you
won't get very much absorption with your stain. A little bit of
Titebond II goes a very long way with pine too. I have used Gorilla
glue with it but if you over use it and it foams out, the pine will
absorb the excess and it will not accept the stain. I made a living
building pine furniture for quite a few years. Now that my shop is
gone, I'm still holding on to a few tools and have built a complete
patio set in my backyard here in Vegas. I'm working on an 8' diameter
redwood table that will be an octagon. And by the way - if anyone can
give me the formula for measuring the exact lengths for the outside
border pieces including the angles, this old country boy would be
extremely grateful! A quick shout out to Nahmie for reminding me that
there is life after divorce and that there is still sawdust in my
future! Life is good . . . I married last March to a beautiful
Christian girl. To my partner in Aussie land, my old sailor Dave and
to the hundreds of others who were always there with a sharp chisel, a
laugh, and a smile . . . thanks for always being there guys. Now come
to Las Vegas and hear our band!
www.brazosriverband.com I didn't make the guitars but I
sure do play them!
Jums (aka Jim McNamara - not the one with the stains . . . the one
with the Pine!)





wellcome back to the greatest politcal bull**** g....er um I mean....
woodwoking group on the usenet highway! :-]

skeez

On Oct 14, 12:43*pm, skeez wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:46:36 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:





On Oct 10, 6:14*pm, t wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:26:26 -0700 (PDT), Nahmie
wrote:

Where'sJummywhen we need him?-

I forwarded this to Jums, and got this back:

Let me say that you suck for having spoken with Jums and that is a
qualified registered neener.

Also, let me inform you both that goodpineis, and has been for some
time. more expensive than many of the au courant hardwoods, which
should add to the cachet.

However, Jummywood is still Jummywood, even at $6.00 a board foot for
AHVG stuff.

t

Alright you guys . . . do you think I could sit back here in Las Vegas
and NOT talk about Jummywood . . . the greatest invention ever made?
LOL!

So here is comes from the "Jummywood/PineKing/Minwax Mac" Master of
all times! *I always preferred yellow pine and if you're going to be
using a Southwest style, I preferred wood with knots and strategically
locate them within the piece. *For example, a cabinet with knots on
the doors or in the back that can be seen is an outstanding look.
However you must be certain that the knots are solid. *When I bought
my pine from the borg (see guys . . . I still remember the lingo from
the old Future Collectible days) *I would run them through my planer.
Very light - EXTREMELY light passes would remove most all of the mill
works lines off of them. *When working with pine use very sharp
blades. *The planer blades had to be a polished sharp and the thinnest
kerf on a Woodworker II blade with a stiffener is the best. *Pine is a
very forgiving wood. *If you dent it simply put a few drops of water
in the dents and they swell back up. *Don't over sand the wood -
usually anything finer than a 120 grit will close the pores and you
won't get very much absorption with your stain. *A little bit of
Titebond II goes a very long way with pine too. *I have used Gorilla
glue with it but if you over use it and it foams out, the pine will
absorb the excess and it will not accept the stain. *I made a living
building pine furniture for quite a few years. *Now that my shop is
gone, I'm still holding on to a few tools and have built a complete
patio set in my backyard here in Vegas. *I'm working on an 8' diameter
redwood table that will be an octagon. *And by the way - if anyone can
give me the formula for measuring the exact lengths for the outside
border pieces including the angles, this old country boy would be
extremely grateful! *A quick shout out to Nahmie for reminding me that
there is life after divorce and that there is still sawdust in my
future! * Life is good . . . I married last March to a beautiful
Christian girl. *To my partner in Aussie land, my old sailor Dave and
to the hundreds of others who were always there with a sharp chisel, a
laugh, and a smile . . . thanks for always being there guys. *Now come
to Las Vegas and hear our band!
www.brazosriverband.com* * * * * * I didn't make the guitars but I
sure do play them!
Jums (aka Jim McNamara - not the one with the stains . . . the one
with the Pine!)

wellcome back to the greatest politcal bull**** g....er um I mean....
woodwoking group on the usenet highway! :-]

skeez- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yup . . . some stuff never changes! LOL! Does Dave Fleming still tell
his tales around here anymore? I lost touch with him. He was the
first guy on the wreck to flame me and we became the best of friends
after that. Quite the history to tell that man does . . . I've been
surfin' around a bit and it looks like a lot of the oldies are still
goodies. LOL! What about the Black Sheep? Is Sy Kaplan still
hanging around? I tried to Google his site but it ain't showing up
anywhere.
I got a lot of help from my old buddy Harvey Klene moving out here
after the divorce. Harvey is one great guy and is having some major
health problems. He built a beautiful wood shop .....one is the envy
of many. I got here just in time to help him deck over the concrete
floor, hang cabinets on the walls, etc. A spectacular place but his
health issues keep him out of it. He's been a great friend so keep
him in your prayers for me if you would.

I'm gonna float around a while and check out some of the topics.
Remind me where to post some pics . . . it's been a while! :-)

Jums

On Oct 14, 12:19*pm, Robatoy wrote:
On Oct 14, 3:35*pm, wrote:





On Oct 14, 11:32*am, Robatoy wrote:

On Oct 14, 3:20 pm, jo4hn wrote:

wrote:

[snip]

t

Alright you guys . . . do you think I could sit back here in Las Vegas
and NOT talk about Jummywood . . . the greatest invention ever made?
LOL!

Welcome back Jums. *Always good to hear from you (mostly). *In your
absence, I have been diligent in mentioning Jummywood (or Pacific
Jummywood (fir)) from time to time. *No body ever asks what the hell
Jummywood is which means that either everybody knows or nobody gives a
****. *For ever and sometimes,
* * * * and mahalo,
* * * * jo4hn

Why.... of course!! Jummywood!! Why didn't you say so? Jummywood good
stuff.

(There are some people who are afraid to ask wtf a certain kind of
wood is.... at the risk of sounding stoopid.)

My guess is wood from theJummytree?.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

JUMMYWOOD TREES? *LOL! *Take a look at the latest post concerning
Jummywood, Robatoy . . . the truth may be too much to handle! * LOL!

Jums

I guess you have been away for a long time. Jummywood trees are found
all over. The best of them all is Jum Arabica.
Other varieties of the species are (as opposed to the sugar maple)
Sugarless Jum, Wintergreen Jum and Spearmint Jum, the latter being a
favourite amongst hunters.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Now that's funny! I don't care who ya are right there . . . that's
funny! LOL!

Jums

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:56:46 -0700 (PDT), Jimmy Mac
wrote:

On Oct 14, 12:43*pm, skeez wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:46:36 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:





On Oct 10, 6:14*pm, t wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:26:26 -0700 (PDT), Nahmie
wrote:

Where'sJummywhen we need him?-

I forwarded this to Jums, and got this back:

Let me say that you suck for having spoken with Jums and that is a
qualified registered neener.

Also, let me inform you both that goodpineis, and has been for some
time. more expensive than many of the au courant hardwoods, which
should add to the cachet.

However, Jummywood is still Jummywood, even at $6.00 a board foot for
AHVG stuff.

t

Alright you guys . . . do you think I could sit back here in Las Vegas
and NOT talk about Jummywood . . . the greatest invention ever made?
LOL!

So here is comes from the "Jummywood/PineKing/Minwax Mac" Master of
all times! *I always preferred yellow pine and if you're going to be
using a Southwest style, I preferred wood with knots and strategically
locate them within the piece. *For example, a cabinet with knots on
the doors or in the back that can be seen is an outstanding look.
However you must be certain that the knots are solid. *When I bought
my pine from the borg (see guys . . . I still remember the lingo from
the old Future Collectible days) *I would run them through my planer.
Very light - EXTREMELY light passes would remove most all of the mill
works lines off of them. *When working with pine use very sharp
blades. *The planer blades had to be a polished sharp and the thinnest
kerf on a Woodworker II blade with a stiffener is the best. *Pine is a
very forgiving wood. *If you dent it simply put a few drops of water
in the dents and they swell back up. *Don't over sand the wood -
usually anything finer than a 120 grit will close the pores and you
won't get very much absorption with your stain. *A little bit of
Titebond II goes a very long way with pine too. *I have used Gorilla
glue with it but if you over use it and it foams out, the pine will
absorb the excess and it will not accept the stain. *I made a living
building pine furniture for quite a few years. *Now that my shop is
gone, I'm still holding on to a few tools and have built a complete
patio set in my backyard here in Vegas. *I'm working on an 8' diameter
redwood table that will be an octagon. *And by the way - if anyone can
give me the formula for measuring the exact lengths for the outside
border pieces including the angles, this old country boy would be
extremely grateful! *A quick shout out to Nahmie for reminding me that
there is life after divorce and that there is still sawdust in my
future! * Life is good . . . I married last March to a beautiful
Christian girl. *To my partner in Aussie land, my old sailor Dave and
to the hundreds of others who were always there with a sharp chisel, a
laugh, and a smile . . . thanks for always being there guys. *Now come
to Las Vegas and hear our band!
www.brazosriverband.com* * * * * * I didn't make the guitars but I
sure do play them!
Jums (aka Jim McNamara - not the one with the stains . . . the one
with the Pine!)

wellcome back to the greatest politcal bull**** g....er um I mean....
woodwoking group on the usenet highway! :-]

skeez- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yup . . . some stuff never changes! LOL! Does Dave Fleming still tell
his tales around here anymore? I lost touch with him. He was the
first guy on the wreck to flame me and we became the best of friends
after that. Quite the history to tell that man does . . . I've been
surfin' around a bit and it looks like a lot of the oldies are still
goodies. LOL! What about the Black Sheep? Is Sy Kaplan still
hanging around? I tried to Google his site but it ain't showing up
anywhere.
I got a lot of help from my old buddy Harvey Klene moving out here
after the divorce. Harvey is one great guy and is having some major
health problems. He built a beautiful wood shop .....one is the envy
of many. I got here just in time to help him deck over the concrete
floor, hang cabinets on the walls, etc. A spectacular place but his
health issues keep him out of it. He's been a great friend so keep
him in your prayers for me if you would.

I'm gonna float around a while and check out some of the topics.
Remind me where to post some pics . . . it's been a while! :-)

Jums

alt binaries pictures woodworking [I think!] heres some more pics
http://lumberjocks.com/jocks/skeezics/workshop

http://lumberjocks.com/galleries/skeezics enjoy...

skeez

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:56:46 -0700 (PDT), Jimmy Mac
wrote:

On Oct 14, 12:43*pm, skeez wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:46:36 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:





On Oct 10, 6:14*pm, t wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:26:26 -0700 (PDT), Nahmie
wrote:

Where'sJummywhen we need him?-

I forwarded this to Jums, and got this back:

Let me say that you suck for having spoken with Jums and that is a
qualified registered neener.

Also, let me inform you both that goodpineis, and has been for some
time. more expensive than many of the au courant hardwoods, which
should add to the cachet.

However, Jummywood is still Jummywood, even at $6.00 a board foot for
AHVG stuff.

t

Alright you guys . . . do you think I could sit back here in Las Vegas
and NOT talk about Jummywood . . . the greatest invention ever made?
LOL!

So here is comes from the "Jummywood/PineKing/Minwax Mac" Master of
all times! *I always preferred yellow pine and if you're going to be
using a Southwest style, I preferred wood with knots and strategically
locate them within the piece. *For example, a cabinet with knots on
the doors or in the back that can be seen is an outstanding look.
However you must be certain that the knots are solid. *When I bought
my pine from the borg (see guys . . . I still remember the lingo from
the old Future Collectible days) *I would run them through my planer.
Very light - EXTREMELY light passes would remove most all of the mill
works lines off of them. *When working with pine use very sharp
blades. *The planer blades had to be a polished sharp and the thinnest
kerf on a Woodworker II blade with a stiffener is the best. *Pine is a
very forgiving wood. *If you dent it simply put a few drops of water
in the dents and they swell back up. *Don't over sand the wood -
usually anything finer than a 120 grit will close the pores and you
won't get very much absorption with your stain. *A little bit of
Titebond II goes a very long way with pine too. *I have used Gorilla
glue with it but if you over use it and it foams out, the pine will
absorb the excess and it will not accept the stain. *I made a living
building pine furniture for quite a few years. *Now that my shop is
gone, I'm still holding on to a few tools and have built a complete
patio set in my backyard here in Vegas. *I'm working on an 8' diameter
redwood table that will be an octagon. *And by the way - if anyone can
give me the formula for measuring the exact lengths for the outside
border pieces including the angles, this old country boy would be
extremely grateful! *A quick shout out to Nahmie for reminding me that
there is life after divorce and that there is still sawdust in my
future! * Life is good . . . I married last March to a beautiful
Christian girl. *To my partner in Aussie land, my old sailor Dave and
to the hundreds of others who were always there with a sharp chisel, a
laugh, and a smile . . . thanks for always being there guys. *Now come
to Las Vegas and hear our band!
www.brazosriverband.com* * * * * * I didn't make the guitars but I
sure do play them!
Jums (aka Jim McNamara - not the one with the stains . . . the one
with the Pine!)

wellcome back to the greatest politcal bull**** g....er um I mean....
woodwoking group on the usenet highway! :-]

skeez- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yup . . . some stuff never changes! LOL! Does Dave Fleming still tell
his tales around here anymore? I lost touch with him. He was the
first guy on the wreck to flame me and we became the best of friends
after that. Quite the history to tell that man does . . . I've been
surfin' around a bit and it looks like a lot of the oldies are still
goodies. LOL! What about the Black Sheep? Is Sy Kaplan still
hanging around? I tried to Google his site but it ain't showing up
anywhere.
I got a lot of help from my old buddy Harvey Klene moving out here
after the divorce. Harvey is one great guy and is having some major
health problems. He built a beautiful wood shop .....one is the envy
of many. I got here just in time to help him deck over the concrete
floor, hang cabinets on the walls, etc. A spectacular place but his
health issues keep him out of it. He's been a great friend so keep
him in your prayers for me if you would.

I'm gonna float around a while and check out some of the topics.
Remind me where to post some pics . . . it's been a while! :-)

Jums


most of the gooduns are gone! who knows where???? even ol JOAT skipped
out on us.

skeez

wrote in message
...
On Oct 10, 6:14 pm, t wrote:

Jums (aka Jim McNamara - not the one with the stains . . . the one
with the Pine!)

Sitting back, waiting for the newbie's to say, What the hell they talking
about?
Greg

"Jimmy Mac" wrote in message
...
I'm gonna float around a while and check out some of the topics.
Remind me where to post some pics . . . it's been a while! :-)

Jums

Many of the "old" regulars are gone, time, spam, and other assorted BS
chased many people off. This place ain't what it used to be a few years ago!
Greg

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:46:36 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

'm working on an 8' diameter
redwood table that will be an octagon. And by the way - if anyone can
give me the formula for measuring the exact lengths for the outside
border pieces including the angles, this old country boy would be
extremely grateful!


All those responses and nobody answered your question???

The miter angle is 22.5 degrees independent of diameter.

Assuming the measured "diameter" is the distance from side to side
across the center of an octagon, the length of the outside edge of the
border is:

Length =tan(22.5) X "diameter" = 0.414 X "diameter"


Assuming the "diameter" is the distance from corner to corner across
the center of an octagon, the length of an outside edge is:

Length = tan(22.5) X "diameter" = 0.383 X "diameter"



Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:37:11 -0500, Tom Veatch wrote:

Assuming the "diameter" is the distance from corner to corner across
the center of an octagon, the length of an outside edge is:

Length = tan(22.5) X "diameter" = 0.383 X "diameter"


OOPS!!

The numbers are right, but the function should be "sin(22.5)".

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

On Oct 14, 5:43*pm, Tom Veatch wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:37:11 -0500, Tom Veatch wrote:
Assuming the "diameter" is the distance from corner to corner across
the center of an octagon, the length of an outside edge is:

Length = tan(22.5) X "diameter" = 0.383 X "diameter"

OOPS!!

The numbers are right, but the function should be "sin(22.5)".

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

Got it Tom and thanks! I've completed the top - now going to work on
the pedestal base. Came out great!

Jim (aka Jummy)