After a dozen layout revisions, sticker shock, and being unable to get wife
to pick all details to go with a new kitchen I have elected to try my hand
at making my own kitchen cabinets. I have already gotten 3 books and have
pooled the best ideas from all three and seem to have come up with a plan.

For those who have already done a project like this, are there any obvious
pitfalls that I am likely to encounter? I was going to build flat panel
shaker doors, but the other half, who has agreeded not to participate in any
design aspects, had expressed a discontent for them. As far as a raised
panel door, I have been toying with the thought that I might purchase them
pre-made for a door/draw speciality company. Working with cherry, I am
looking at 45+/- a door. Should I attempt making a raised panel door, or is
it less work and aggravation to buy?

These will be face frame cabinets, again using cherry, that I will be buying
either rough and milling to size myself. Boxes will be 3/4 birch veneer
using adjustable leg levelors. I have a large area at work that I am allowed
to use for my 'hobby' and outside of a stationary planer I should have
everything that I need. Comments? Suggestions?

SteveA

On Sep 4, 11:00*am, "SteveA" wrote:
After a *dozen layout revisions, sticker shock, and being unable to get wife
to pick all details to go with a new kitchen I have elected to try my hand
at making my own kitchen cabinets. I have already gotten 3 books and have
pooled the best ideas from all three and seem to have come up with a plan..

For those who have already done a project like this, are there any obvious
pitfalls that I am likely to encounter? I was going to *build flat panel
shaker doors, but the other half, who has agreeded not to participate in any
design aspects, had expressed a discontent for them. As far as a raised
panel door, I have been toying with the thought that I might purchase them
pre-made for a door/draw speciality company. Working with cherry, I am
looking at 45+/- a door. Should I attempt making a raised panel door, or is
it less work and aggravation to buy?

These will be face frame cabinets, again using cherry, that I will be buying
either rough and milling to size myself. Boxes will be 3/4 birch veneer
using adjustable leg levelors. I have a large area at work that I am allowed
to use for my 'hobby' and outside of a stationary planer I should have
everything that I need. Comments? Suggestions?

SteveA

My few cents:
If this is your first kitchen cabinet project, I would agree with your
plan to buy the doors. Try a supplier like Cabinetmart (I have no
affiliation with them) who can supply a huge variety of design, colour
and size.
Once you have your layout done, draw up your cutting list and stick to
it. Mark every piece as you cut it and keep things together. It is
amazing how things can get confused if you don't do this.
Also, when you are doing your layout, try to stick with uniform sizes
rather than a huge variety of boxes.
For the bottoms, use slide outs instead of fixed or adjustable shelfs
- your wife will love you for it.
Make up jigs for mounting hardware - you will love yourself for doing
so! Also use story sticks for convenience and double checking.

Good luck.

Hell, I thought I was the only one that spent more on projects than I
would have if I just bought it. You are also 100% correct about how
long it will take. Make a REALISTIC time estimate and then double it.

Pride can only be achieved when you do it yourself. You can't put a
price on that.

G.S.

On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 11:28:54 -0500, "Upscale"
wrote:

And finally, not once have I ever built something that was completed
faster or cheaper than if I'd just gone and earned money at my regular
job and paid someone else to do it only difference being that there
would be no pride for me.

"Gordon Shumway" wrote in message
...
Hell, I thought I was the only one that spent more on projects than I
would have if I just bought it. You are also 100% correct about how
long it will take. Make a REALISTIC time estimate and then double it.

I am terrible at estimating how long it will take to build something. I
triple any estimates I routinely make. That about zeros it in for me. Sad,
but true.

"SteveA" wrote in message
These will be face frame cabinets, again using cherry, that I will be
buying
either rough and milling to size myself. Boxes will be 3/4 birch veneer
using adjustable leg levelors. I have a large area at work that I am
allowed
to use for my 'hobby' and outside of a stationary planer I should have
everything that I need. Comments? Suggestions?

Depends. By your saying that you've got three books suggests to me that you
haven't done face frame cabinets with rail and stile doors before. With
practice comes experience and that takes time. The first kitchen cabinets I
made for my mother some twenty years ago are still in use, but when I look
at them these days, I can see glaring errors that I just wouldn't make if I
were building them now. I'm still proud of them as a first effort, but the
quality of work I do now is considerably improved.

Have you got a set of door panel router bits? Have you used them before? How
are you planning on attaching the face frames to the cabinets? Have you used
that method before? Have you priced the wood you're going to use on this
project? There's a few dozen questions you need to ask yourself. Please
understand, I'm not trying to talk you out of doing this, I'm just trying to
make you aware of the obstacles (known and unknown) that you're going to
face. The biggest benefit you'll get is the pride of having taken on and
building this project. Just make sure your better half understands that it's
not going to happen overnight and will take far longer than you or she ever
expected. And, when it's finally finished, you'll look at it all and think
about what you could have improved. That's the nature of building stuff for
yourself, at least it almost always is for me. And finally, not once have I
ever built something that was completed faster or cheaper than if I'd just
gone and earned money at my regular job and paid someone else to do it only
difference being that there would be no pride for me.

SteveA wrote:
For those who have already done a project like this, are there any
obvious pitfalls that I am likely to encounter?

It will take at least 5 times as long and cost at least twice as much
as you estimate.

That's not all bad since what you end up building will probably not
resemble your original plan.

Just need to stay motivated to get the job done.

Set short term goals along the way so that you get to enjoy a sense of
accomplishment when you meet them.

BTW, the NYW videos would probably make a great reference for a
project like this.

SFWIW, I have used several NYW plans.

Always found them to be complete and useful.

YMMV.

Lew

"SteveA" wrote in message
...
After a dozen layout revisions, sticker shock, and being unable to get
wife to pick all details to go with a new kitchen I have elected to try my
hand at making my own kitchen cabinets. I have already gotten 3 books and
have pooled the best ideas from all three and seem to have come up with a
plan.

For those who have already done a project like this, are there any obvious
pitfalls that I am likely to encounter? I was going to build flat panel
shaker doors, but the other half, who has agreeded not to participate in
any design aspects, had expressed a discontent for them. As far as a
raised panel door, I have been toying with the thought that I might
purchase them pre-made for a door/draw speciality company. Working with
cherry, I am looking at 45+/- a door. Should I attempt making a raised
panel door, or is it less work and aggravation to buy?

These will be face frame cabinets, again using cherry, that I will be
buying either rough and milling to size myself. Boxes will be 3/4 birch
veneer using adjustable leg levelors. I have a large area at work that I
am allowed to use for my 'hobby' and outside of a stationary planer I
should have everything that I need. Comments? Suggestions?

SteveA
Well, I'll probably be going against the grain on this one. I have
completely remodeled 6 complete kitchens and baths. Replaced probably 6
kitchen or bath cabinet doors and drawers and helped build 3 kitchens for
new home construction. I have a few hundred doors and drawers behind me.

I prefer to build the doors and drawers.

After a *dozen layout revisions, sticker shock, and being unable to get
wife to pick all details to go with a new kitchen I have elected to try my
hand at making my own kitchen cabinets.

You might make a rough drawing of the kitchen area in mind,
and take your sketch to Home Depot. They have a kitchen cabinet
designer
section that can put your sketch in their computer & give you and the
wife
several 3D views and material breakdowns.
This will get you off to a good start.
Good luck,
Smitty

SteveA wrote:
After a dozen layout revisions, sticker shock, and being unable to
get wife to pick all details to go with a new kitchen I have elected
to try my hand at making my own kitchen cabinets. I have already
gotten 3 books and have pooled the best ideas from all three and seem
to have come up with a plan.
For those who have already done a project like this, are there any
obvious pitfalls that I am likely to encounter? I was going to build
flat panel shaker doors, but the other half, who has agreeded not to
participate in any design aspects, had expressed a discontent for
them. As far as a raised panel door, I have been toying with the
thought that I might purchase them pre-made for a door/draw
speciality company. Working with cherry, I am looking at 45+/- a
door. Should I attempt making a raised panel door, or is it less work
and aggravation to buy?
These will be face frame cabinets, again using cherry, that I will be
buying either rough and milling to size myself. Boxes will be 3/4
birch veneer using adjustable leg levelors. I have a large area at
work that I am allowed to use for my 'hobby' and outside of a
stationary planer I should have everything that I need. Comments?
Suggestions?

FWIW...

Doors
I happen to like flat, glued up doors. Making raised panel doors is more
work but not *that* much; basically, you just have to make a frame and
groove it for the panel which you have to make even if flat. If your wife
just dislikes the stunning simplicity of flat panel doors you could just
make a 1/4" "V" groove around all edges an inch or two from the
edge...voila - raised panels.

If you want to simplify hanging the doors, make them 1/2" full overlay and
use self closing hinges such as these...

http://wwhardware.com/catalog.cfm/Gr...ble/showprod/1

You could also make integral pulls by using a cove bit on the inside of the
door bottom or top at the center; doesn't have to be a long cut, just 2"-3"
on each door.
___________________

Leg Levelers
I find it much easier to built boxes sans toe kicks and install them on a
previously leveled plinth (made of 2x4s) via screws thru the bottom into the
plinth. Easier to build, easier to install. BTW, install the upper
cabinets before the lower ones.
___________________

Face Frames
When you have two cabinets adjacent to each other, leave their adjacent face
frames a bit wider than the box; i.e., do not trim them flush to the box.
That way you can easily get both face frames touching. If you also cut a
small quirk along the adjoining edges they will look better than without it.
IMO.

Also IMO, there is nothing wrong with screwing the face frames to the boxes
and filling the countersunk screw hole with a face grain plug. Pre-drilling
the holes with a spacer will assure symmetry one cabinet to another.
____________________

Boxes
Someone suggested standardizing box sizes. Good advice. Also good advice
to cut all box sides to length at the same time; ditto all box tops &
bottoms (for each width box).

An easy way to join boxes is to make a 3/8 x 3/8 dado on each side 3/8" from
top and bottom, make a 3/8 x 3/8 rabbet on each top & bottom at both ends
then glue and screw together. Make sure they are dead square when gluing
up.

Don't skimp on the construction of the backs for the boxes...they help get
it square to start with and add lots of rigidity. In your case, I'd use 1/4
birch ply glued into rabbets on all four box pieces. Don't forget to leave
room behind the back for a nailing board. And - especially on the uppers -
use firmly attached nailing boards.
____________________

Other
Planning undercounter lights? Don't forget to allow for them if you are.

If a run of cabinets doesn't have an "open end" make the combined width of
the cabinets generously less than the opening width. It is much easier to
cover the resultant gaps between cabinet ends and walls with a bit of trim
than it is to wind up with cabinets that won't fit in the space.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

dadiOH wrote:
Don't skimp on the construction of the backs for the boxes...they
help get it square to start with and add lots of rigidity. In your
case, I'd use 1/4 birch ply glued into rabbets on all four box
pieces.

Not rabbets, grooves.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

SteveA wrote:
After a dozen layout revisions, sticker shock, and being unable to get wife
to pick all details to go with a new kitchen I have elected to try my hand
at making my own kitchen cabinets. I have already gotten 3 books and have
pooled the best ideas from all three and seem to have come up with a plan.

My fave is Bob Lang's book. Is that one of them?


For those who have already done a project like this, are there any obvious
pitfalls that I am likely to encounter? I was going to build flat panel
shaker doors, but the other half, who has agreeded not to participate in any
design aspects, had expressed a discontent for them. As far as a raised
panel door, I have been toying with the thought that I might purchase them
pre-made for a door/draw speciality company. Working with cherry, I am
looking at 45+/- a door. Should I attempt making a raised panel door, or is
it less work and aggravation to buy?

Unless you have a good router table or shaper, and plan on doing more in
the future, I'd buy 'em. You'd be amazed how many pro shops outsource
doors. A good set of frame cutters + a good panel bit will run you $200+.

These will be face frame cabinets, again using cherry, that I will be buying
either rough and milling to size myself. Boxes will be 3/4 birch veneer
using adjustable leg levelors. I have a large area at work that I am allowed
to use for my 'hobby' and outside of a stationary planer I should have
everything that I need. Comments? Suggestions?

Sounds like you do to me. Face frames are relatively easy to make, and
are cheaper to rebuild. Make the FF first, then make the boxes to fit
them. I highly recommend prefinished plywood for the boxes, with the
finished side in. Cabinet drawers are simple boxes, and are also quite
easy.

Have you thought out the finish for the face frames and doors?

"dadiOH" wrote in message
Don't skimp on the construction of the backs for the boxes...they
help get it square to start with and add lots of rigidity. In your
case, I'd use 1/4 birch ply glued into rabbets on all four box
pieces.

Not rabbets, grooves.

My preference is rabbets actually. There's an advantage to attaching the
back to rabbets. If the cabinets are off square a bit, you can square them
up as you nail them into rabbets. That can't really be done so easily if the
backs are slid into grooves.

A good many pro shops have the doors and drawers made by
others, while they focus on the boxes.

There is much to be said for ordering "finished" doors
and drawers, while you build your boxes.

In fact, I'm going to do that exact same thing.

I found a shop that will build my face frames and doors and
finish them the way I want.

Doing it that way, speeds things along, which is a
BIG deal when you talk about destroying a kitchen.

When the kitchen is out of action, so is the entire house,
which will cause construction "stress" based on the infamous
statement of "Not much longer".

I have the room and the skills but time is the problem.

My finishing skills are not where I would like them,
so I decided to hire that function out.

When I read stories about my "fabulous" kitchen that
took "only" six months, I wonder what the marriage was
like during that period.

Good Luck.





After a dozen layout revisions, sticker shock, and being unable to get
wife to pick all details to go with a new kitchen I have elected to try my
hand at making my own kitchen cabinets. I have already gotten 3 books and
have pooled the best ideas from all three and seem to have come up with a
plan.

For those who have already done a project like this, are there any obvious
pitfalls that I am likely to encounter? I was going to build flat panel
shaker doors, but the other half, who has agreeded not to participate in
any design aspects, had expressed a discontent for them. As far as a
raised panel door, I have been toying with the thought that I might
purchase them pre-made for a door/draw speciality company. Working with
cherry, I am looking at 45+/- a door. Should I attempt making a raised
panel door, or is it less work and aggravation to buy?

These will be face frame cabinets, again using cherry, that I will be
buying either rough and milling to size myself. Boxes will be 3/4 birch
veneer using adjustable leg levelors. I have a large area at work that I
am allowed to use for my 'hobby' and outside of a stationary planer I
should have everything that I need. Comments? Suggestions?

On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 11:00:14 -0400, SteveA wrote:

After a dozen layout revisions, sticker shock, and being unable to get
wife to pick all details to go with a new kitchen I have elected to try
my hand at making my own kitchen cabinets. I have already gotten 3 books
and have pooled the best ideas from all three and seem to have come up
with a plan.

For those who have already done a project like this, are there any
obvious pitfalls that I am likely to encounter? I was going to build
flat panel shaker doors, but the other half, who has agreeded not to
participate in any design aspects, had expressed a discontent for them.
As far as a raised panel door, I have been toying with the thought that
I might purchase them pre-made for a door/draw speciality company.
Working with cherry, I am looking at 45+/- a door. Should I attempt
making a raised panel door, or is it less work and aggravation to buy?

These will be face frame cabinets, again using cherry, that I will be
buying either rough and milling to size myself. Boxes will be 3/4 birch
veneer using adjustable leg levelors. I have a large area at work that I
am allowed to use for my 'hobby' and outside of a stationary planer I
should have everything that I need. Comments? Suggestions?

SteveA

I've done both. Bought my doors and built them. For me doing a good job
on the doors and drawers takes longer than the cabinets. I've had good
luck buying doors, but given the right jigs and setups you can run
through all the doors fairly quickly. It's the setup that takes the time.

Last set of cabinets I pre-finished all the interior cabinet parts before
assembly. Worked great.

I don't mess with leg leveling devices, but prepare a good sub-base of
2x4's that is square and level and mount the boxes to that. I have a
preference for french cleats for the uppers.

D. G. Adams

I made my own. Doors shaker style out of Pine and cases out of Melamine
covered particle board.Not half bad. My biggest problem is that after 3
years the joints on the doors are falling apart.Glued with Elmers Cabinet
Glue.Don't trust it.I'm redoing all joints with Gorilla Glue.Just some food
for thoughts
"SteveA" wrote in message
...
After a dozen layout revisions, sticker shock, and being unable to get
wife to pick all details to go with a new kitchen I have elected to try my
hand at making my own kitchen cabinets. I have already gotten 3 books and
have pooled the best ideas from all three and seem to have come up with a
plan.

For those who have already done a project like this, are there any obvious
pitfalls that I am likely to encounter? I was going to build flat panel
shaker doors, but the other half, who has agreeded not to participate in
any design aspects, had expressed a discontent for them. As far as a
raised panel door, I have been toying with the thought that I might
purchase them pre-made for a door/draw speciality company. Working with
cherry, I am looking at 45+/- a door. Should I attempt making a raised
panel door, or is it less work and aggravation to buy?

These will be face frame cabinets, again using cherry, that I will be
buying either rough and milling to size myself. Boxes will be 3/4 birch
veneer using adjustable leg levelors. I have a large area at work that I
am allowed to use for my 'hobby' and outside of a stationary planer I
should have everything that I need. Comments? Suggestions?

SteveA

I agree with many of your points, firstly, no, I have not made any type of
face frame cabinets to date. I do however, make a lot of mission style
tables, the stands resemble a face frame, and construction seems to be
identical. I plan on attaching the face frames to the carcass using
biscuits, which I use extensively(as well as dowelling).

As far as the rail and stiles, no, I have not attempted to make any, as I am
still looking at cutters for my shaper. Once I narrow down the field, I have
a lot of oak material to practice on. Having done the research, this is one
area I did not expect many surprises.

I am currently in contact with several mills and suppliers for the material,
I have worked almost exclusively with red oak, buying both rough sawn and
milling myself, and S2S material. This will be a first time with cherry as
the material, so I am currently looking at milled material rather than
rough. I have a Delta portable planer which does a fairly nice job, and if
it makes sense I am also looking at stationary planers (the new delta looks
nice, just waiting to see some feedback on its operation)

The wife understands that at best, with the time available, maybe I can get
one or two units done per week, she seems fine with that, as I have already
ripped out 90% of the old cabinetry and currently have a workable area yet.
As a practice unit, using the materials on hand, I plan on building a
temporary base sink unit so the sink can be moved from its current location
and the remaining 10% be removed to complete insulation replacement,
electrical rewiring, and sheetrock work.

While I know that my skill level is what I would consider a beginner, as I
have only been actively building furniture for the past year and a half, but
I can see a vastly improved final product from my first project to a couple
of free-standing bookcases I recently made. Fit and finish is night and day
from the first one...

Since I have a shaper (which has net even been run since I wired it up) and
time to practice, I am again thinking about making the doors, as I have done
a lot of table tops from the oak material and again, the more recent pieces
are a vast improvement.

I think having no time frame (or real budget) requirements will give me all
the time to make and correct errors as I go along. The thing that concerns
me the most is finishing the pieces to maintain uniformity.

SteveA


"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"SteveA" wrote in message
These will be face frame cabinets, again using cherry, that I will be
buying
either rough and milling to size myself. Boxes will be 3/4 birch veneer
using adjustable leg levelors. I have a large area at work that I am
allowed
to use for my 'hobby' and outside of a stationary planer I should have
everything that I need. Comments? Suggestions?

Depends. By your saying that you've got three books suggests to me that
you
haven't done face frame cabinets with rail and stile doors before. With
practice comes experience and that takes time. The first kitchen cabinets
I
made for my mother some twenty years ago are still in use, but when I look
at them these days, I can see glaring errors that I just wouldn't make if
I
were building them now. I'm still proud of them as a first effort, but the
quality of work I do now is considerably improved.

Have you got a set of door panel router bits? Have you used them before?
How
are you planning on attaching the face frames to the cabinets? Have you
used
that method before? Have you priced the wood you're going to use on this
project? There's a few dozen questions you need to ask yourself. Please
understand, I'm not trying to talk you out of doing this, I'm just trying
to
make you aware of the obstacles (known and unknown) that you're going to
face. The biggest benefit you'll get is the pride of having taken on and
building this project. Just make sure your better half understands that
it's
not going to happen overnight and will take far longer than you or she
ever
expected. And, when it's finally finished, you'll look at it all and think
about what you could have improved. That's the nature of building stuff
for
yourself, at least it almost always is for me. And finally, not once have
I
ever built something that was completed faster or cheaper than if I'd just
gone and earned money at my regular job and paid someone else to do it
only
difference being that there would be no pride for me.

With no real time frame, I don't think I can reeally go wrong. As far as
budget, I was quoted 12,000 (contractors price..I have a lot of friends in
the biz), with that number for a finishing point, I can't see any way I
would be even close to that, even buying all the machinery that I have been
looking at for the past couple of months....


"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
. ..

"Gordon Shumway" wrote in message
...
Hell, I thought I was the only one that spent more on projects than I
would have if I just bought it. You are also 100% correct about how
long it will take. Make a REALISTIC time estimate and then double it.

I am terrible at estimating how long it will take to build something. I
triple any estimates I routinely make. That about zeros it in for me. Sad,
but true.

Pat,

Fortunately, I have managed to keep a functional space while already ripping
out 90% of the existing. It has currently been in this condition for 2
months, while 'she' was looking at cabineets at different places. The cost
finally got to her, and she agreeded to let me try my hand at it. The only
condition is that is remains usable while it is going on.

Right now, I don't see that as a problem

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
A good many pro shops have the doors and drawers made by
others, while they focus on the boxes.

There is much to be said for ordering "finished" doors
and drawers, while you build your boxes.

In fact, I'm going to do that exact same thing.

I found a shop that will build my face frames and doors and
finish them the way I want.

Doing it that way, speeds things along, which is a
BIG deal when you talk about destroying a kitchen.

When the kitchen is out of action, so is the entire house,
which will cause construction "stress" based on the infamous
statement of "Not much longer".

I have the room and the skills but time is the problem.

My finishing skills are not where I would like them,
so I decided to hire that function out.

When I read stories about my "fabulous" kitchen that
took "only" six months, I wonder what the marriage was
like during that period.

Good Luck.





After a dozen layout revisions, sticker shock, and being unable to get
wife to pick all details to go with a new kitchen I have elected to try
my hand at making my own kitchen cabinets. I have already gotten 3 books
and have pooled the best ideas from all three and seem to have come up
with a plan.

For those who have already done a project like this, are there any
obvious pitfalls that I am likely to encounter? I was going to build
flat panel shaker doors, but the other half, who has agreeded not to
participate in any design aspects, had expressed a discontent for them.
As far as a raised panel door, I have been toying with the thought that
I might purchase them pre-made for a door/draw speciality company.
Working with cherry, I am looking at 45+/- a door. Should I attempt
making a raised panel door, or is it less work and aggravation to buy?

These will be face frame cabinets, again using cherry, that I will be
buying either rough and milling to size myself. Boxes will be 3/4 birch
veneer using adjustable leg levelors. I have a large area at work that I
am allowed to use for my 'hobby' and outside of a stationary planer I
should have everything that I need. Comments? Suggestions?

Many valid points, and food for thought, especially doing the uppers first.
Had not even considered that, and it makes perfect sense not that I have
read it.


"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
SteveA wrote:
After a dozen layout revisions, sticker shock, and being unable to
get wife to pick all details to go with a new kitchen I have elected
to try my hand at making my own kitchen cabinets. I have already
gotten 3 books and have pooled the best ideas from all three and seem
to have come up with a plan.
For those who have already done a project like this, are there any
obvious pitfalls that I am likely to encounter? I was going to build
flat panel shaker doors, but the other half, who has agreeded not to
participate in any design aspects, had expressed a discontent for
them. As far as a raised panel door, I have been toying with the
thought that I might purchase them pre-made for a door/draw
speciality company. Working with cherry, I am looking at 45+/- a
door. Should I attempt making a raised panel door, or is it less work
and aggravation to buy?
These will be face frame cabinets, again using cherry, that I will be
buying either rough and milling to size myself. Boxes will be 3/4
birch veneer using adjustable leg levelors. I have a large area at
work that I am allowed to use for my 'hobby' and outside of a
stationary planer I should have everything that I need. Comments?
Suggestions?

FWIW...

Doors
I happen to like flat, glued up doors. Making raised panel doors is more
work but not *that* much; basically, you just have to make a frame and
groove it for the panel which you have to make even if flat. If your wife
just dislikes the stunning simplicity of flat panel doors you could just
make a 1/4" "V" groove around all edges an inch or two from the
edge...voila - raised panels.

If you want to simplify hanging the doors, make them 1/2" full overlay and
use self closing hinges such as these...

http://wwhardware.com/catalog.cfm/Gr...ble/showprod/1

You could also make integral pulls by using a cove bit on the inside of
the door bottom or top at the center; doesn't have to be a long cut, just
2"-3" on each door.
___________________

Leg Levelers
I find it much easier to built boxes sans toe kicks and install them on a
previously leveled plinth (made of 2x4s) via screws thru the bottom into
the plinth. Easier to build, easier to install. BTW, install the upper
cabinets before the lower ones.
___________________

Face Frames
When you have two cabinets adjacent to each other, leave their adjacent
face frames a bit wider than the box; i.e., do not trim them flush to the
box. That way you can easily get both face frames touching. If you also
cut a small quirk along the adjoining edges they will look better than
without it. IMO.

Also IMO, there is nothing wrong with screwing the face frames to the
boxes and filling the countersunk screw hole with a face grain plug.
Pre-drilling the holes with a spacer will assure symmetry one cabinet to
another.
____________________

Boxes
Someone suggested standardizing box sizes. Good advice. Also good advice
to cut all box sides to length at the same time; ditto all box tops &
bottoms (for each width box).

An easy way to join boxes is to make a 3/8 x 3/8 dado on each side 3/8"
from top and bottom, make a 3/8 x 3/8 rabbet on each top & bottom at both
ends then glue and screw together. Make sure they are dead square when
gluing up.

Don't skimp on the construction of the backs for the boxes...they help get
it square to start with and add lots of rigidity. In your case, I'd use
1/4 birch ply glued into rabbets on all four box pieces. Don't forget to
leave room behind the back for a nailing board. And - especially on the
uppers - use firmly attached nailing boards.
____________________

Other
Planning undercounter lights? Don't forget to allow for them if you are.

If a run of cabinets doesn't have an "open end" make the combined width of
the cabinets generously less than the opening width. It is much easier to
cover the resultant gaps between cabinet ends and walls with a bit of trim
than it is to wind up with cabinets that won't fit in the space.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
SteveA wrote:
After a dozen layout revisions, sticker shock, and being unable to get
wife to pick all details to go with a new kitchen I have elected to try
my hand at making my own kitchen cabinets. I have already gotten 3 books
and have pooled the best ideas from all three and seem to have come up
with a plan.

My fave is Bob Lang's book. Is that one of them?


Got Bob's book, read it and plan on incorperating some of his ideas with
some from the other two



For those who have already done a project like this, are there any
obvious pitfalls that I am likely to encounter? I was going to build
flat panel shaker doors, but the other half, who has agreeded not to
participate in any design aspects, had expressed a discontent for them.
As far as a raised panel door, I have been toying with the thought that I
might purchase them pre-made for a door/draw speciality company. Working
with cherry, I am looking at 45+/- a door. Should I attempt making a
raised panel door, or is it less work and aggravation to buy?

Unless you have a good router table or shaper, and plan on doing more in
the future, I'd buy 'em. You'd be amazed how many pro shops outsource
doors. A good set of frame cutters + a good panel bit will run you $200+.

I have a shaper, which has not been used since I picked it up. Having been
getting quotes for solid cherry doors running 45-52/ea (I asked for quotes
on a 15.5x28 door) the thought about buying a 200/300 set of cutters a good
deal

These will be face frame cabinets, again using cherry, that I will be
buying either rough and milling to size myself. Boxes will be 3/4 birch
veneer using adjustable leg levelors. I have a large area at work that I
am allowed to use for my 'hobby' and outside of a stationary planer I
should have everything that I need. Comments? Suggestions?

Sounds like you do to me. Face frames are relatively easy to make, and
are cheaper to rebuild. Make the FF first, then make the boxes to fit
them. I highly recommend prefinished plywood for the boxes, with the
finished side in. Cabinet drawers are simple boxes, and are also quite
easy.

Have you thought out the finish for the face frames and doors?

That is where my largest concerns are, I have been toying with the idea of
getting a spray gun for the top coat and cabinet interiors and doing the ff
and draw fronts and doors via the old hand method. She is looking for the
rick 'red' cherry look. Would prefer a commercial stain, where I can
purchase enough from a single batch to complete everything

On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 11:00:14 -0400, "SteveA"
wrote:

You should first get a copy "Building Your Own Kitchen
Cabinetry" from John Paquay. His website is down now.

http://home.insightbb.com/~jpaquay

You should or must read it before you start if you are not
sure where you are heading. I think, making doors and
drawers is most fun and the experience you should not miss.
To reduce your cost, I suggest you lurk craigslist in the
city where you live. You can buy cheap lumber, plywood and
even woodworking power tools. Also not to forget, Reuse
Store (Habitat). Here in CA, lumber is exorbitant and I
bought all my Maple lumber and laminate sheets from
commercial woodworking companies. They often advertised in
craigslist to get rid of excess lumber, laminated (Formica)
sheets less than 1/3 the cost new and including free MDF and
much more.

Just an example, three weeks ago I went to this ACE hardware
and bought more than a hundred $$ worth of Minwax
Polyurethane sealer, stained, hardware's plywood etc. at
their closing down sales. I believe in a week or two
everything will be gone.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mat/817907720.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mat/817914188.html


After a dozen layout revisions, sticker shock, and being unable to get wife
to pick all details to go with a new kitchen I have elected to try my hand
at making my own kitchen cabinets. I have already gotten 3 books and have
pooled the best ideas from all three and seem to have come up with a plan.

For those who have already done a project like this, are there any obvious
pitfalls that I am likely to encounter? I was going to build flat panel
shaker doors, but the other half, who has agreeded not to participate in any
design aspects, had expressed a discontent for them. As far as a raised
panel door, I have been toying with the thought that I might purchase them
pre-made for a door/draw speciality company. Working with cherry, I am
looking at 45+/- a door. Should I attempt making a raised panel door, or is
it less work and aggravation to buy?

These will be face frame cabinets, again using cherry, that I will be buying
either rough and milling to size myself. Boxes will be 3/4 birch veneer
using adjustable leg levelors. I have a large area at work that I am allowed
to use for my 'hobby' and outside of a stationary planer I should have
everything that I need. Comments? Suggestions?

SteveA

SteveA wrote:

That is where my largest concerns are, I have been toying with the idea of
getting a spray gun for the top coat and cabinet interiors and doing the ff
and draw fronts and doors via the old hand method.

Luke, use the prefinished ply inside. The prefinished ply... G

She is looking for the
rick 'red' cherry look. Would prefer a commercial stain, where I can
purchase enough from a single batch to complete everything

All you need is perfectly matched wood and that will matter. G

Since cherry blotches something awful, you're going to need to use
either a fast drying pigment product over a shellac wash coat, or
colored clear coats. Good spray gear, as well as plenty of practice,
will definitely be a worthwhile investment.

Once you've got a pro-quality product, I would be more concerned with
learning to apply and control the color, rather than which can it came from.

If you're going to use a heavy pigment stain, you might think of
skipping the cherry in favor of birch or maple. You'll still need the
wash coats, etc... Once stained, it'll look the same, and you'll save
enough money to pay for the gear.

There's also the option of having the doors and frames professionally
finished by a local pro.

When I did our kitchen, I went to Home Depot and got their guys to
measure our kitchen and design it - free service if you buy their
cabinets, but a real help in planning the triangle and other lyout
issues using "standard" cabinet dimensions.

Counter tops are an issue if any are longer than the Formica Sheets
available to you or, if turning a corner where one leg is longer than
the available short dimension - though, maybe your investment in
Cherry will dictate a professionally made counter top.

You can, of course purchase the boxes from Lowes, HD, etc and build
the doors. This gives you Euro cabinets (better use of space than Face-
Frames) and and easier job.

A PC 690 will do the job, but the bigger 3.5HP model might be
justified along with building a good router table to help with those
panel doors. Buy the Jugs for the rail and stile bits to help with
setup - Cherry is a terrible wood to waste.

Look at your other projects - how are your finishing skills?

Ready-made doors are not cheap - not as cheap as ready-made HD boxes
(relatively).

"SteveA" wrote in message
...
Pat,

Fortunately, I have managed to keep a functional space while already
ripping out 90% of the existing. It has currently been in this condition
for 2 months, while 'she' was looking at cabineets at different places.
The cost finally got to her, and she agreeded to let me try my hand at
it. The only condition is that is remains usable while it is going on.

Right now, I don't see that as a problem


Fortunately you can still the kitchen in full swing with out cabinet doors.
Build those as you get to them. I typically do doors last.

Just for fun:

Buy a AT-A-Glance full year calendar and keep
notes on project. Track ALL costs very closely.

Post it here with a brief of
"How I would change things" if done again.

It will be helpful to many others.


SteveA wrote:

Right now, I don't see that as a problem

"SteveA" wrote:

After a dozen layout revisions, sticker shock, and being unable to get wife
to pick all details to go with a new kitchen I have elected to try my hand
at making my own kitchen cabinets. I have already gotten 3 books and have
pooled the best ideas from all three and seem to have come up with a plan.

It sounds like a good plan. Building doors is not tough, especially if you have
a shaper. Buy some poplar to build a few practice doors.

Overlay doors are far easier than inset doors, you don't have to worry about
getting a good reveal. Finish the inside of the cabinets before assembly.

When installing, find the high point of floor and then draw level lines for the
tops of the bottoms and the bottom of the tops from there. Install the tops
first, screw a 2x4 to the wall with the top on your level line. Then it's easy
to put the cabinets in place and attach them, even if you are by yourself.

Your walls are not square. Depending on how "not square", you should leave a
bit of space 1/2" - 1" at the ends of the cabinets where they butt the walls.
Then make the face frame a little wider at that end and scribe it to the wall
for a tight fit.

-- Doug

"SteveA" wrote:

After a dozen layout revisions, sticker shock, and being unable to get wife
to pick all details to go with a new kitchen I have elected to try my hand
at making my own kitchen cabinets. I have already gotten 3 books and have
pooled the best ideas from all three and seem to have come up with a plan.

One more thought: If I ever redo a kitchen from scratch, I'm going to put only
drawers in the lower cabinets. Deep ones for pans and large items, shallower
ones for spices, utensils, etc. Norm did that in his kitchen remodel last year.

I've put some in our current kitchen and shop. They are really convenient. No
stooping over to find something at the back of a cabinet. It is also far
easier to lift out heavy items like a stationary mixer.

-- Doug

Douglas Johnson wrote:


I've put some in our current kitchen and shop. They are really convenient. No
stooping over to find something at the back of a cabinet.

Google "Pull outs"...

On Sep 4, 8:39*pm, "SteveA" wrote:
I have already ripped out 90% of the old cabinetry

Holy Shiite! I can't believe you found a woman to tolerate that! I'd
be out the door for a stunt like that! :-)

I inherited my dad's business when he retired. They make furniture,
podiums, cabinets and lots of woodwork for churches, clubs and rich
folks. I say they because I've had to hire a site manager. I'm
pretty much hands off these days but I do check the books, the shop
and so on every week or two. They have several different ways of
making cabinets so they can cover multiple pricing tiers. The
preferred method (cheapest/quickest/strongest) is a euro box with glue
and pocket screws. The screws are driven from the outside so they're
hidden. They assemble the entire box that way. Pocket screws are
also used for face frames if that's on the order. Those are also
driven from the outside. End cabinets are covered with a panel. We
have a machine that cuts the pocket hole and sets a screw in place
automatically. It can do 3 holes/screws at once. After that you just
glue, butt the pieces and drive the screw.

I'd offer a couple of tips from when I used to work in the shop.
First is that biscuits can be a PITA for attaching face frames. When
we'd get out to a job site we always had to do more hand work to get
good joints between the cabinets. Biscuits seem to introduce a bit of
error. They aren't cut consistently and parts get warped as they're
forced together. It's also harder to plan for overhang. Your face
frame should overhang on both sides of the box so you get a tight fit
in the middle. Second tip is to get a good set of clamping squares.
We have home made ones in the shop. They're a basic steel square with
toggle clamps welded on. One is clamped in each end of a corner, glue
is applied, the other piece gets clamped and then the screws get
driven. Connecting two sides at 90 degrees takes less than 1 minute
and the clamps can come off immediately.

I am completing (I hope) my second kitchen and a challenge may be the
finishing.

First time, smallish kitchen, so I brushed the poly on. 3 coats, got
very tedious!
So...
2nd - bought a turbine system to speed things up and tried my hand at
lacquer. First, water based, then solvent (the water based didn't get
along with the oiled, solid walnut handles).
This opened the door wide open to a whole new set of challenges.
There is definitely a learning curve and impediments come from
unexpected places e.g. Could not get the lacquer to not end in orange
peel. Reason - the dang lacquer thinner from Lowes had ingredients
that didn't get along with the lacquer; need the "purer stuff. Took a
long time to figure that out, after ALL (every single @$%^%*& one!)
the normal reasons were eliminated.

In fact, let me repeat that as a general mantra - impediments,
challenges, and such will come from unexpected places.

If you've planned and laid things out, you can "whip out" the cabinet
carcasses in no time (relatively). It's repetition of the same depths
and constructions after all.

Precision is important. By that I mean stuff like keeping the carcass
square, precise measurements for drawers and their hardware
installation, etc.

One suggestion was to not rip out the old kitchen 'til the cabinets
are made. Since it always takes longer to finish the project than
expected, you may find that a functional kitchen isn't the same as a
completed kitchen and it gets to be tiring.

Example (again!) Do you know what it takes to bake a box mix cake -
when your kitchen is packed away in boxes? Not just the mix and a
cake pan. Measuring cups, spatulas, a mixer,...

I'd echo the suggestion that you lean toward buying the doors (if
they're raised panel) unless you want the challenge and find that time
still isn't an issue by the time you get to that stage.

Keep a notebook with your sketches, measurements, requirements, other
notes and stuff. If you ever do this again, you will find it very
helpful. Getting up to speed on the 2nd go-round for me was a bit
interesting as I'd forget little things/lessons from round 1 until
after the fact. Small stuff tends to go by the wayside until you need
to use it again.

Make sure the time investment is worth it. Merely one question of
many - are you gonna live there e a long time?

Renata





On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 11:00:14 -0400, "SteveA"
wrote:

After a dozen layout revisions, sticker shock, and being unable to get wife
to pick all details to go with a new kitchen I have elected to try my hand
at making my own kitchen cabinets. I have already gotten 3 books and have
pooled the best ideas from all three and seem to have come up with a plan.

For those who have already done a project like this, are there any obvious
pitfalls that I am likely to encounter? I was going to build flat panel
shaker doors, but the other half, who has agreeded not to participate in any
design aspects, had expressed a discontent for them. As far as a raised
panel door, I have been toying with the thought that I might purchase them
pre-made for a door/draw speciality company. Working with cherry, I am
looking at 45+/- a door. Should I attempt making a raised panel door, or is
it less work and aggravation to buy?

These will be face frame cabinets, again using cherry, that I will be buying
either rough and milling to size myself. Boxes will be 3/4 birch veneer
using adjustable leg levelors. I have a large area at work that I am allowed
to use for my 'hobby' and outside of a stationary planer I should have
everything that I need. Comments? Suggestions?

SteveA

On Sep 4, 10:00*am, "SteveA" wrote:
After a *dozen layout revisions, sticker shock, and being unable to get wife
to pick all details to go with a new kitchen I have elected to try my hand
at making my own kitchen cabinets. I have already gotten 3 books and have
pooled the best ideas from all three and seem to have come up with a plan..

For those who have already done a project like this, are there any obvious
pitfalls that I am likely to encounter? I was going to *build flat panel
shaker doors, but the other half, who has agreeded not to participate in any
design aspects, had expressed a discontent for them. As far as a raised
panel door, I have been toying with the thought that I might purchase them
pre-made for a door/draw speciality company. Working with cherry, I am
looking at 45+/- a door. Should I attempt making a raised panel door, or is
it less work and aggravation to buy?

These will be face frame cabinets, again using cherry, that I will be buying
either rough and milling to size myself. Boxes will be 3/4 birch veneer
using adjustable leg levelors. I have a large area at work that I am allowed
to use for my 'hobby' and outside of a stationary planer I should have
everything that I need. Comments? Suggestions?

SteveA

5 years ago we gutted our kitchen to start from scratch. My wifes
kitchen was going to cost like 20K. I figured I could obtain most of
a shop and the lumber to do it myself. I have a lot of tools now,
two new kids and a half finished kitchen. If I were to do it again, I
would buy it. I will always see all the mistakes. Most people do not
notice them, but I do. Was it worth it....ask me in another 5 years
when I might have it finished.

Mark

I believe we have a new record holder for the title.


DejaVoodoo wrote:

5 years ago we gutted our kitchen to start from scratch. My wifes
kitchen was going to cost like 20K. I figured I could obtain most of
a shop and the lumber to do it myself. I have a lot of tools now,
two new kids and a half finished kitchen. If I were to do it again, I
would buy it. I will always see all the mistakes. Most people do not
notice them, but I do. Was it worth it....ask me in another 5 years
when I might have it finished.

Mark

Wow...your dedication is admirable. But when you can find a good deal
and low prices, I would say save yourself a little aggravation! There
sites that can give you great prices and quotes, such as http://www.kitchenspro.com.


DejaVoodoo wrote:
On Sep 4, 10:00�am, "SteveA" wrote:
After a �dozen layout revisions, sticker shock, and being unable to get wife
to pick all details to go with a new kitchen I have elected to try my hand
at making my own kitchen cabinets. I have already gotten 3 books and have
pooled the best ideas from all three and seem to have come up with a plan.

For those who have already done a project like this, are there any obvious
pitfalls that I am likely to encounter? I was going to �build flat panel
shaker doors, but the other half, who has agreeded not to participate in any
design aspects, had expressed a discontent for them. As far as a raised
panel door, I have been toying with the thought that I might purchase them
pre-made for a door/draw speciality company. Working with cherry, I am
looking at 45+/- a door. Should I attempt making a raised panel door, or is
it less work and aggravation to buy?

These will be face frame cabinets, again using cherry, that I will be buying
either rough and milling to size myself. Boxes will be 3/4 birch veneer
using adjustable leg levelors. I have a large area at work that I am allowed
to use for my 'hobby' and outside of a stationary planer I should have
everything that I need. Comments? Suggestions?

SteveA

5 years ago we gutted our kitchen to start from scratch. My wifes
kitchen was going to cost like 20K. I figured I could obtain most of
a shop and the lumber to do it myself. I have a lot of tools now,
two new kids and a half finished kitchen. If I were to do it again, I
would buy it. I will always see all the mistakes. Most people do not
notice them, but I do. Was it worth it....ask me in another 5 years
when I might have it finished.

Mark

As an update, I have just completed a tempo sink base and combined a 6" base
in a single unit. Since it is a tempo, allowing me to move existing sink to
its new location I made the face frame from material on hand (red oak). I
built is exactly as I will a final piece, using FF biscuits for the face
frame joints, and 20 biscuits to attach face from to carcass, as will as
using them for the carcass joints. While I have not finished it, as yet, but
plan to tomorrow after installing legs. I will take a couple of pics before
and after and post them for some 'corective critisism'.

All in all, it was not a terrible task, in fact a bit easier than I had
suspected (after changing the face frame dimensions, mid construction....

SteveA

wrote in message
...
Wow...your dedication is admirable. But when you can find a good deal
and low prices, I would say save yourself a little aggravation! There
sites that can give you great prices and quotes, such as
http://www.kitchenspro.com.


DejaVoodoo wrote:
On Sep 4, 10:00?am, "SteveA" wrote:
After a ?dozen layout revisions, sticker shock, and being unable to get
wife
to pick all details to go with a new kitchen I have elected to try my
hand
at making my own kitchen cabinets. I have already gotten 3 books and
have
pooled the best ideas from all three and seem to have come up with a
plan.

For those who have already done a project like this, are there any
obvious
pitfalls that I am likely to encounter? I was going to ?build flat panel
shaker doors, but the other half, who has agreeded not to participate in
any
design aspects, had expressed a discontent for them. As far as a raised
panel door, I have been toying with the thought that I might purchase
them
pre-made for a door/draw speciality company. Working with cherry, I am
looking at 45+/- a door. Should I attempt making a raised panel door, or
is
it less work and aggravation to buy?

These will be face frame cabinets, again using cherry, that I will be
buying
either rough and milling to size myself. Boxes will be 3/4 birch veneer
using adjustable leg levelors. I have a large area at work that I am
allowed
to use for my 'hobby' and outside of a stationary planer I should have
everything that I need. Comments? Suggestions?

SteveA

5 years ago we gutted our kitchen to start from scratch. My wifes
kitchen was going to cost like 20K. I figured I could obtain most of
a shop and the lumber to do it myself. I have a lot of tools now,
two new kids and a half finished kitchen. If I were to do it again, I
would buy it. I will always see all the mistakes. Most people do not
notice them, but I do. Was it worth it....ask me in another 5 years
when I might have it finished.

Mark