Any one have any good plans to share for a stock cart similar to the one
Norm built on episode # 0603?
Would you make the shelves adjustable or in a fixed position?

Thanks for your help

dabears525 wrote:
Any one have any good plans to share for a stock cart similar to the
one Norm built on episode # 0603?
Would you make the shelves adjustable or in a fixed position?

Any reason you don't want to just get the plans from Norm?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
Any one have any good plans to share for a stock cart similar to the
one Norm built on episode # 0603?
Would you make the shelves adjustable or in a fixed position?

Any reason you don't want to just get the plans from Norm?

Obviously, he'd prefer not to spend the money. I know you're a smart person,
but smart-ass answers like yours above only serve to make you look stupid.

look at the one mid way down this page:
http://benchmark.20m.com/workshop/Ji...igs_Carts.html


dabears525 wrote:
Any one have any good plans to share for a stock cart similar to the one
Norm built on episode # 0603?
Would you make the shelves adjustable or in a fixed position?

Thanks for your help

"Upscale" wrote:

Obviously, he'd prefer not to spend the money. I know you're a smart
person,
but smart-ass answers like yours above only serve to make you look
stupid.

Looking in the mirror I see.

BTW, if the cost of a set of plans represents a serious cost
component, you are probably involved in the wrong activity.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:

BTW, if the cost of a set of plans represents a serious cost
component, you are probably involved in the wrong activity.

Yeah, me too. OTOH, a couple of hours (or evenings) with the CAD package
usually gives me something I like better than the original...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Morris Dovey" wrote:

Yeah, me too. OTOH, a couple of hours (or evenings) with the CAD
package usually gives me something I like better than the
original...

In the past, I have purchased several NYW plans.

Have found them to be well documented and for less than $10, well
worth the cost; however, have never felt the need to buy the video
that is an option.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote:

Yeah, me too. OTOH, a couple of hours (or evenings) with the CAD
package usually gives me something I like better than the
original...

In the past, I have purchased several NYW plans.

Have found them to be well documented and for less than $10, well
worth the cost; however, have never felt the need to buy the video
that is an option.

I spent all my money on tools and women, the rest I just wasted. :-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Aug 22, 2:37 pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Upscale" wrote:
Obviously, he'd prefer not to spend the money. I know you're a smart
person,
but smart-ass answers like yours above only serve to make you look
stupid.

Looking in the mirror I see.

BTW, if the cost of a set of plans represents a serious cost
component, you are probably involved in the wrong activity.
...

I am astonished at how nasty the tone on here can get without
even involving me.

--

FF

On Aug 21, 10:54 pm, "dabears525" wrote:
Any one have any good plans to share for a stock cart similar to the one
Norm built on episode # 0603?
Would you make the shelves adjustable or in a fixed position?

You really don't need plans for something like this. I used fixed
shelves, you want it to be solid. My philosophy with things for the
shop is scraps and pocket screws first, ask questions later. I made
mine with shelves sized 24"x16" which allowed me to get 3 shelves out
of one piece of 2'x4' melamine, I have a 4th shelf at the bottom from
scrap ply. I have about 11" from the top of a shelf to the bottom of
the rail above it. The size works for me, small enough to get
anywhere in my shop. I like the melamine because I do small glue-ups
on it, the glue pops off the melamine easily.

"Morris Dovey" wrote:

I spent all my money on tools and women, the rest I just wasted. :-)

WHAT?

No booze???

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote:

I spent all my money on tools and women, the rest I just wasted. :-)

WHAT?

No booze???

Life is just full of hard choices... :-]

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

I was not trying to start a ****ing contest!
I read this group every day and get great ideas or tips from many of the
good contributors. To bad they didn't show up today.
Buying the plan was not the issue. Many times Norm's or anyone else's shop
tools or jigs have been improved upon by many
of you. I was just seeking your advise for a "better mousetrap".
I thought that's what this group did was share ideas or show off completed
projects.

To all of you with the money/plans issues, you call yourselves woodworkers?
You have been inhaling too much sawdust.
Anyone can snipe from the outside but it takes a craftsperson to share their
experience or help someone.
Thanks to the two who did give a decent reply.




wrote in message
...
On Aug 21, 10:54 pm, "dabears525" wrote:
Any one have any good plans to share for a stock cart similar to the one
Norm built on episode # 0603?
Would you make the shelves adjustable or in a fixed position?

You really don't need plans for something like this. I used fixed
shelves, you want it to be solid. My philosophy with things for the
shop is scraps and pocket screws first, ask questions later. I made
mine with shelves sized 24"x16" which allowed me to get 3 shelves out
of one piece of 2'x4' melamine, I have a 4th shelf at the bottom from
scrap ply. I have about 11" from the top of a shelf to the bottom of
the rail above it. The size works for me, small enough to get
anywhere in my shop. I like the melamine because I do small glue-ups
on it, the glue pops off the melamine easily.

Morris Dovey wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote:

I spent all my money on tools and women, the rest I just wasted. :-)

WHAT?

No booze???

Life is just full of hard choices... :-]

Booze isn't a waste unless it's spilled....

Jeeze, a guy comes to us to ask for links to plans. He gets one
referral and a page or two of crap.

I saw the thread [Today's most active topics:] and thought "I'll take
a look, maybe there will be some fresh ideas or interesting solutions
referenced."

Such a disappointment. And this one one of the "most active" threads!

If your friend or neighbor came over and asked you where he could find
plans or ideas for a stock cart/storage system, would you help or give
him grief?

And, if you simply don't have anything positive or informative or
helpful, can't you simply restrain your compulsive need to respond and
move on to the next post?

http://www.woodworkersworkshop.com/l...rage_racks.php

Free Woodworking Plans - Lumber Storage Racks
(return)
# Lumber Cart Rack and Panel cuttter (PDF)
This is a very smart solution. It combines the storage capacity of a
mobile lumber storage cart and utilizes the side of the cart for panel
cutting. ShopNotes Magazine May 2008 Issue 99.
# Bed, Single - 2x4 lumber
I needed an extra bed in my old house for one of the tenants. Rather
than buy something, I decided to just build a bed out of construction
lumber.
# Rack, Lumber
by Grant Smith - I made up a lumber rack capable of storing over 1000
bd ft of lumber for around $200 about two years ago. It is made up of
½’ black iron pipe for shelves and 4x4x10’ lumber for the uprights. As
an added bonus, it also features sheet stock storage behind it. The
unit is an A-frame affair that partially leans on a wall. It is
scalable so you can decide how long you want to make it. The design
allows easy sorting and browsing of lumber from the side.
# Rack, Lumber - Sheet Goods
Host David Thiel creates a storage rack for tall sheet goods.
# Rack, Lumber
This example of a lumber rack is made with one-inch diameter
galvanized pipe. The rack stores hardwood boards and sheets of
plywood. You can screw the lumber rack into a permanent spot in your
shop, or add casters so you can move it around where you need.
# Rack, Lumber Cart - Sheet Goods
The sheet goods cart has several features, including a kickstand to
steady the cart when it’s not moving. It has a handle attached to the
back of a large sheet of 3/4 inch plywood to control the cart when
pushing. It also has two fixed caster that work like a skate. A wooden
lip keeps the sheet goods from sliding off the front of the cart.
# Stand, Lumber
Host David Thiel is joined by a viewer from Denver, who offers a great
idea for making a stand that holds long pieces of lumber.
# Rack, Lumber Cart - Roll Around Plywood
Let the wheels do the work with our simple but effective plywood-
toting runabout.

On Aug 22, 3:43 pm, "dabears525" wrote:
I was not trying to start a ****ing contest!
I read this group every day and get great ideas or tips from many of the
good contributors. To bad they didn't show up today.
Buying the plan was not the issue. Many times Norm's or anyone else's shop
tools or jigs have been improved upon by many
of you. I was just seeking your advise for a "better mousetrap".
I thought that's what this group did was share ideas or show off completed
projects.

To all of you with the money/plans issues, you call yourselves woodworkers?
You have been inhaling too much sawdust.
Anyone can snipe from the outside but it takes a craftsperson to share their
experience or help someone.
Thanks to the two who did give a decent reply.

wrote in message

...

On Aug 21, 10:54 pm, "dabears525" wrote:
Any one have any good plans to share for a stock cart similar to the one
Norm built on episode # 0603?
Would you make the shelves adjustable or in a fixed position?

You really don't need plans for something like this. I used fixed
shelves, you want it to be solid. My philosophy with things for the
shop is scraps and pocket screws first, ask questions later. I made
mine with shelves sized 24"x16" which allowed me to get 3 shelves out
of one piece of 2'x4' melamine, I have a 4th shelf at the bottom from
scrap ply. I have about 11" from the top of a shelf to the bottom of
the rail above it. The size works for me, small enough to get
anywhere in my shop. I like the melamine because I do small glue-ups
on it, the glue pops off the melamine easily.

Although I'm not known for decent replies, check out the pictures of
my sheetgoods and cutoffs cart at http://tomeshew.spaces.live.com/
They're in the workshop album. It's kinda like the carts at the borg,
where the center casters are a little proud of the plane that the end
casters describe, so it can pivot around pretty tightly. G'luck. Tom

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
BTW, if the cost of a set of plans represents a serious cost
component, you are probably involved in the wrong activity.

I don't buy plans anymore. I can look at something or perhaps get a little
advice and then draw my own plans if needed and then build it. But, since
you appear to have an excess of money and don't mind throwing you money
around without consideration, then feel free to buy some plans for the OP.
I'm sure he will appreciate it.

And it's not a matter of being a serious cost component. The choice being
available, I prefer to spend my money on important stuff like the alcohol I
buy every week which is considerably costlier then some simple plans.

On Aug 23, 8:12 pm, tom wrote:
On Aug 22, 3:43 pm, "dabears525" wrote:


Although I'm not known for decent replies, check out the pictures G'luck. Tom



Nice. Thanks. Enjoyed them.

"Upscale" wrote:

I don't buy plans anymore. I can look at something or perhaps get a
little
advice and then draw my own plans if needed and then build it.

Think that is known as being a mooch in my prt of the world.

Trying to use design plans the the designer clearly offers for sale to
build a single unit without paying for them is very simply the theft
of intellectual property.

You state you are a tech writer.

What is your position if someone were to plagurize your work, then
sell it without compensating you?

But, since
you appear to have an excess of money and don't mind throwing you
money
around without consideration, then feel free to buy some plans for
the OP.

Interesting observation; however will consider it for what it is IBS
(Intellectual BULL ****).

And it's not a matter of being a serious cost component. The choice
being
available, I prefer to spend my money on important stuff like the
alcohol I
buy every week which is considerably costlier then some simple
plans.

That seems obvious.

Lew

"dabears525" wrote:

I was not trying to start a ****ing contest!

NO, just looking for free engineering.

Buying the plan was not the issue.

Since this drawing shows three different projects for the price of
one, you win.

BTW, the roller guide is probably the "sleeper" project of the group.



Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message

I don't buy plans anymore. I can look at something or perhaps get a
little advice and then draw my own plans if needed and then build it.

Think that is known as being a mooch in my part of the world.

Then you're completely full of **** Lew. There isn't a person alive who does
woodwork that hasn't taken someone's else's idea and modified a version for
his own use. You build a chair, a table whatever, it's design is based
exactly or loosely on some other person's design that you've seen. The only
difference between me and you is that I don't lie about it while you're
completely full of crap.

Trying to use design plans the the designer clearly offers for sale to
build a single unit without paying for them is very simply the theft
of intellectual property.

I guess you've never done a history assignment in school. That's where you
read what someone else has written and then say it again in your own words.
With your warped thinking, I'd guess you'd classify that as plagiarism.
Would that be correct Lew?

You state you are a tech writer.
What is your position if someone were to plagurize your work, then
sell it without compensating you?

Quite obviously, you don't have a clue about the legalities of being a
technical writer. A technical writer usually takes legally obtained
information given to him or researched by him and rewrites it at the
comprehension and interest level for a particular audience. Since the
information is owned from beginning to end by the client, he's free to do
with what's been written as he pleases including copying, rewriting and
distributing it ~ even if it's information created entirely by me. I know
for certain fact that information I've previously written has been
rewritten, updated and changed a number of times by successive technical
writers. And you know what Lew? I'm perfectly fine with that because it's
the nature of the business.

Interesting observation; however will consider it for what it is IBS
(Intellectual BULL ****).

Possibly, however your response is just BULL **** without any intelligence
to back it up.

available, I prefer to spend my money on important stuff like the
alcohol I buy every week which is considerably costlier then
some simple plans.

That seems obvious.

The alcohol comment was intended to be funny. Obviously, you wouldn't find
it so because you appear to have your humour up your ass where you
apparently have also placed your head.

Dave

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Upscale" wrote:

I don't buy plans anymore. I can look at something or perhaps get a
little
advice and then draw my own plans if needed and then build it.

Think that is known as being a mooch in my prt of the world.

Nothing wrong with "mooching" ideas to use in your own designs,
despite recent efforts to the contrary in the software industry.

Trying to use design plans the the designer clearly offers for sale
to
build a single unit without paying for them is very simply the theft
of intellectual property.

OK, so when in your opinion is it legitimate to draw your own plans
for a duplicate of a piece of furniture you have seen? Is Norm
stealing when he does this? How do you draw the line between theft
and inspiration?

You state you are a tech writer.

What is your position if someone were to plagurize your work, then
sell it without compensating you?

Who said anything about "selling"? Google "fair use doctrine". In
any case it's queationable whether examining a picture of a piece of
furniture and then drawing a similar design is copyright
violation--Plycraft made imitation Eames chairs for decades that
incorporated all the distinctive features of the Eames except a
different shaped armrest and Herman Miller was never successful in
shutting down this activity.

Certainly if someone is selling unauthorized copies of Norm's plans
that's bad, but that's not what was being proposed.



But, since
you appear to have an excess of money and don't mind throwing you
money
around without consideration, then feel free to buy some plans for
the OP.

Interesting observation; however will consider it for what it is IBS
(Intellectual BULL ****).

And it's not a matter of being a serious cost component. The choice
being
available, I prefer to spend my money on important stuff like the
alcohol I
buy every week which is considerably costlier then some simple
plans.

That seems obvious.

Lew

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message

"dabears525" wrote:

I was not trying to start a ****ing contest!

NO, just looking for free engineering.

MAN, YOU ARE ONE FULL OF CRAP BULL**** ARTIST!
This entire newsgroup is an exchange of information, suggestions and ideas.
By your stunted criteria, you could accuse the entire readership of this
group as seeking free engineering. And since over the years I've seen a
number of your own comments exchanging information and ideas, you'd be
included with everybody else.

How do you explain that?

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Upscale" wrote:

I don't buy plans anymore. I can look at something or perhaps get a
little
advice and then draw my own plans if needed and then build it.

Think that is known as being a mooch in my prt of the world.


Isn't that a tad harsh?

Looking at something, seeking advice, and drawing his own plans, makes
him a Mooch? G

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
news:Sa5tk.857$p72.350@trnddc05...
"Upscale" wrote:

I don't buy plans anymore. I can look at something or perhaps get a
little
advice and then draw my own plans if needed and then build it.

Think that is known as being a mooch in my prt of the world.

Trying to use design plans the the designer clearly offers for sale to
build a single unit without paying for them is very simply the theft of
intellectual property.

You either did not understand the above statement or you are crazy. If you
see a piece of furniture in a store or a magazine and decide to make
something close to it, that is not stealing. Every time you make a simple
box do you send a royalty to the designer of the original box? I've copied
many an item where there were no plans available. I've measured pieces on
display in a store to get some idea of proportion. Two years ago I made a
chaise lounge for $200 that rivals the $1000 one I saw in a store. They
offered no plans. Who do I pay if I decide to make an Adirondack chair from
scratch?

If you open a set of plans on the rack at Woodcraft and copy it, yes, that
is stealing.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

You either did not understand the above statement or you are crazy.

Maybe bothG

If you see a piece of furniture in a store or a magazine and decide
to make something close to it, that is not stealing.

Agreed.

Isn't that the way most of the NYW projects start out?

They find an antique piece on display in a gallery, take some pictures
and measurements, then sit down and generate a set of working drawings
based on that field trip.

Generating a set of engineering documents based on an existing model
that is in the public domain is done every day and certainly isn't
stealing.

Take those drawings that are clearly now for sale and modify them to
make your own version without buying the drawings is a totally
different matter.

I've copied many an item where there were no plans available. I've
measured pieces on display in a store to get some idea of proportion.

Sounds like you and Norm should make a field trip togetherG.

Two years ago I made a chaise lounge for $200 that rivals the $1000
one I saw in a store. They offered no plans.

Again, you created value by developing your own design based on public
domain information.

Who do I pay if I decide to make an Adirondack chair from scratch?


Depends on whether you use a commerical plan or develop your own set
of plans.

If you open a set of plans on the rack at Woodcraft and copy it,
yes, that is stealing.

Precisely the point.

Lew

"B A R R Y" wrote:

Looking at something, seeking advice, and drawing his own plans,
makes him a Mooch? G

The above doesn't; however, modifying a set of plans that are for sale
without buying them is.

Lew

"J. Clarke" wrote:

Nothing wrong with "mooching" ideas to use in your own designs,
despite recent efforts to the contrary in the software industry.

See comment in post to Edwin P.

OK, so when in your opinion is it legitimate to draw your own plans
for a duplicate of a piece of furniture you have seen? Is Norm
stealing when he does this? How do you draw the line between theft
and inspiration?

Again, see comment in post to Edwin P.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"B A R R Y" wrote:

Looking at something, seeking advice, and drawing his own plans,
makes him a Mooch? G

The above doesn't; however, modifying a set of plans that are for
sale
without buying them is.

So who in this discussion did this or claimed to have done this?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Aug 27, 7:50 am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:

....

Trying to use design plans the the designer clearly offers for sale
to
build a single unit without paying for them is very simply the theft
of intellectual property.

OK, so when in your opinion is it legitimate to draw your own plans
for a duplicate of a piece of furniture you have seen? Is Norm
stealing when he does this? How do you draw the line between theft
and inspiration?

I expect that copyright has expired for most of the pieces that
Norm duplicates. Plus, he usually makes some dimensional
and stylistic changes, see below.


You state you are a tech writer.

What is your position if someone were to plagurize your work, then
sell it without compensating you?

Who said anything about "selling"? Google "fair use doctrine". In
any case it's queationable whether examining a picture of a piece of
furniture and then drawing a similar design is copyright
violation--Plycraft made imitation Eames chairs for decades that
incorporated all the distinctive features of the Eames except a
different shaped armrest and Herman Miller was never successful in
shutting down this activity.
...

Fair Use Doctrine would not be applicable.

What is applicable is that what he makes from a picture is
not going to be an exact copy of the original. For some
intellectual property, infringement does not require exact
duplication. "Terminator" violated Harlan Ellison's copyrights
on one or more stories with very different details. For furniture,
IIRC, infringement does require exact or nearly exact duplication.
Otherwise copyright would have long ago expired on every
basic piece of furniture as ,many chairs, tables, dressers,
desks, etc are much like others.

And please, _information_ per se is not protected by copyright.

--


FF

On Aug 23, 2:12*pm, tom wrote:
On Aug 22, 3:43 pm, "dabears525" wrote:



I was not trying to start a ****ing contest!
I read this group every day and get great ideas or tips from many of the
good contributors. *To bad they didn't show up today.
Buying the plan was not the issue. *Many times Norm's or anyone else's shop
tools or jigs have been improved upon by many
of you. *I was just seeking your advise for a "better mousetrap".
I thought that's what this group did was share ideas or show off completed
projects.

To all of you with the money/plans issues, you call yourselves woodworkers?
You have been inhaling too much sawdust.
Anyone can snipe from the outside but it takes a craftsperson to share their
experience or help someone.
Thanks to the two who did give a decent reply.

wrote in message

...

On Aug 21, 10:54 pm, "dabears525" wrote:
Any one have any good plans to share for a stock cart similar to the one
Norm built on episode # 0603?
Would you make the shelves adjustable or in a fixed position?

You really don't need plans for something like this. *I used fixed
shelves, you want it to be solid. *My philosophy with things for the
shop is scraps and pocket screws first, ask questions later. *I made
mine with shelves sized 24"x16" which allowed me to get 3 shelves out
of one piece of 2'x4' melamine, I have a 4th shelf at the bottom from
scrap ply. *I have about 11" from the top of a shelf to the bottom of
the rail above it. *The size works for me, small enough to get
anywhere in my shop. *I like the melamine because I do small glue-ups
on it, the glue pops off the melamine easily.

Although I'm not known for decent replies, check out the pictures of
my sheetgoods and cutoffs cart athttp://tomeshew.spaces.live.com/
They're in the workshop album. It's kinda like the carts at the borg,
where the center casters are a little proud of the plane that the end
casters describe, so it can pivot around pretty tightly. *G'luck. Tom

Tom:
Nice shop. . .thanks for sharing.
Smitty

If you look at the original question, I never asked for a copy of Norm's
drawing.
I asked for ideas for a stock cart and referenced the one Norm built
as a way to describe what I was looking for.
You got so narrow minded on your perception of somebody getting something
copyrighted.
Tell me you have never asked anyone for help.
You were born with all skills needed?
What a load of crap! You got information from others and used it to better
yourself or what you where building. Let's hear you explain that????
Look at all of the good ideas many people contribute like Morris who posts
pictures as well and others.

What is the purpose of this newsgroup if not a place to discuss our
enjoyment of working with work and sharing ideas??



"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
news:Bh5tk.858$p72.767@trnddc05...

"dabears525" wrote:

I was not trying to start a ****ing contest!

NO, just looking for free engineering.

Buying the plan was not the issue.

Since this drawing shows three different projects for the price of one,
you win.

BTW, the roller guide is probably the "sleeper" project of the group.



Lew

On Aug 28, 11:07 am, " wrote:
On Aug 23, 2:12 pm, tom wrote:



On Aug 22, 3:43 pm, "dabears525" wrote:

I was not trying to start a ****ing contest!
I read this group every day and get great ideas or tips from many of the
good contributors. To bad they didn't show up today.
Buying the plan was not the issue. Many times Norm's or anyone else's shop
tools or jigs have been improved upon by many
of you. I was just seeking your advise for a "better mousetrap".
I thought that's what this group did was share ideas or show off completed
projects.

To all of you with the money/plans issues, you call yourselves woodworkers?
You have been inhaling too much sawdust.
Anyone can snipe from the outside but it takes a craftsperson to share their
experience or help someone.
Thanks to the two who did give a decent reply.

wrote in message

...

On Aug 21, 10:54 pm, "dabears525" wrote:
Any one have any good plans to share for a stock cart similar to the one
Norm built on episode # 0603?
Would you make the shelves adjustable or in a fixed position?

You really don't need plans for something like this. I used fixed
shelves, you want it to be solid. My philosophy with things for the
shop is scraps and pocket screws first, ask questions later. I made
mine with shelves sized 24"x16" which allowed me to get 3 shelves out
of one piece of 2'x4' melamine, I have a 4th shelf at the bottom from
scrap ply. I have about 11" from the top of a shelf to the bottom of
the rail above it. The size works for me, small enough to get
anywhere in my shop. I like the melamine because I do small glue-ups
on it, the glue pops off the melamine easily.

Although I'm not known for decent replies, check out the pictures of
my sheetgoods and cutoffs cart athttp://tomeshew.spaces.live.com/
They're in the workshop album. It's kinda like the carts at the borg,
where the center casters are a little proud of the plane that the end
casters describe, so it can pivot around pretty tightly. G'luck. Tom

Tom:
Nice shop. . .thanks for sharing.
Smitty

You're welcome. Thank you. Tom