This AM I was finishing off an outdoor project - little foot-stool to
go with an Adirondack chair I'd built. I needed (or wanted - for
purposes of over-engineering) a couple of 45 degree angle braces to
control racking stresses. Grabbed a 24" long, 4" wide, 7/8" thick hunk
of white oak (my preferred outside furniture wood) scrap, set the
mitre gauge and ran it through the saw to get a 45 degree triangle.
Next cut was to be a 90 degree cross cut of the rest on the board to
get the second triangle. First cut was absolutely normal through blade
exit and then, BAM! The offcut triangle headed to the rear of the saw
at impressive velocity (I never saw it), hit the front apron of my
bench and landed on the floor.

Rurned saw off! Checking the cut on both pieces (offcut and main
piece), showed nothing strange, no burns, saw marks, gouges, no
nothing - just a fractured 45 degree corner where the offcut triangle
hit the bench.

Somewhere in this NG I read the suggestion (now a BIG RULE), that says
no body part shall ever be in the offcut throw zone. I've tried to
follow that rule as a religion and am damn glad I did so this time.
That hunk of WO would have hurt! I have no clue what happened to
cause the throwback, but am damned glad I wasn't in the way!

Be careful out there, bad stuff happens (as my old NCO used to tell me
just before the s#$% hit the proverbial fan).

Regards.

Tom

"Tom B" wrote:

Somewhere in this NG I read the suggestion (now a BIG RULE), that
says
no body part shall ever be in the offcut throw zone. I've tried to
follow that rule as a religion and am damn glad I did so this time.
That hunk of WO would have hurt! I have no clue what happened to
cause the throwback, but am damned glad I wasn't in the way!


SFWIW, the above is why I use a sled where ever possible, especially
miter cuits.

Lew

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:00:00 -0500, Tom B
wrote:

Ahh... you mean "kick back"...

I thought you were talking about a cave man or something.. lol

It's very much like a fire fight... You don't want to be in the place the ****
is heading...
Glad you were out of the "line of fire"..


This AM I was finishing off an outdoor project - little foot-stool to
go with an Adirondack chair I'd built. I needed (or wanted - for
purposes of over-engineering) a couple of 45 degree angle braces to
control racking stresses. Grabbed a 24" long, 4" wide, 7/8" thick hunk
of white oak (my preferred outside furniture wood) scrap, set the
mitre gauge and ran it through the saw to get a 45 degree triangle.
Next cut was to be a 90 degree cross cut of the rest on the board to
get the second triangle. First cut was absolutely normal through blade
exit and then, BAM! The offcut triangle headed to the rear of the saw
at impressive velocity (I never saw it), hit the front apron of my
bench and landed on the floor.

Rurned saw off! Checking the cut on both pieces (offcut and main
piece), showed nothing strange, no burns, saw marks, gouges, no
nothing - just a fractured 45 degree corner where the offcut triangle
hit the bench.

Somewhere in this NG I read the suggestion (now a BIG RULE), that says
no body part shall ever be in the offcut throw zone. I've tried to
follow that rule as a religion and am damn glad I did so this time.
That hunk of WO would have hurt! I have no clue what happened to
cause the throwback, but am damned glad I wasn't in the way!

Be careful out there, bad stuff happens (as my old NCO used to tell me
just before the s#$% hit the proverbial fan).

Regards.

Tom


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"Tom B" wrote

This AM I was finishing off an outdoor project - little foot-stool to
go with an Adirondack chair I'd built. I needed (or wanted - for
purposes of over-engineering) a couple of 45 degree angle braces to
control racking stresses. Grabbed a 24" long, 4" wide, 7/8" thick hunk
of white oak (my preferred outside furniture wood) scrap, set the
mitre gauge and ran it through the saw to get a 45 degree triangle.
Next cut was to be a 90 degree cross cut of the rest on the board to
get the second triangle. First cut was absolutely normal through blade
exit and then, BAM! The offcut triangle headed to the rear of the saw
at impressive velocity (I never saw it), hit the front apron of my
bench and landed on the floor.

Presumably, the offcut touched the uprunning teeth.

A riving knife (splitter) is supposed to prevent this.

Jeff

--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
email : Username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.uk
www.amgron.clara.net

With most safety rules I have to go over them time and time again to get my
kids to practice them. Even with that, I still have to remind them "Where
is your eye protection" and "Where is your push stick." The lesson about
standing in the kickback zone I only have to cover once. What I do after
explaining what kickback is and the potential speed of a kickback (Someone
once told me it can be over 200 MPH. I have no idea if this is true or not,
but I use the figure anyway.) I stand behind the saw and lay a board on the
table. I move the board back slowly to show where it would hit if the board
went straight back. Then I repeat, "Imagine this board hitting you here
(with the board strategically placed into my gonads) at two hundred miles
per hour." At that point I drop two ball bearings on the floor and watch
them slowly roll away. Every kid in the class winces and I can see their
knees coming together in an reflexive, protective manner. For some unknown
reason they ALWAYS remember that rule.

Glen

--
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's
just that they know so much that isn't so."


- Ronald Reagan
"Tom B" wrote in message
news
SNIP First cut was absolutely normal through blade
exit and then, BAM! The offcut triangle headed to the rear of the saw
at impressive velocity (I never saw it), hit the front apron of my
bench and landed on the floor.

SNIP
Somewhere in this NG I read the suggestion (now a BIG RULE), that says
no body part shall ever be in the offcut throw zone. I've tried to
follow that rule as a religion and am damn glad I did so this time.
That hunk of WO would have hurt! I have no clue what happened to
cause the throwback, but am damned glad I wasn't in the way!

Be careful out there, bad stuff happens (as my old NCO used to tell me
just before the s#$% hit the proverbial fan).

Regards.

Tom

"Glen" wrote in message
m...
With most safety rules I have to go over them time and time again to get
my kids to practice them. Even with that, I still have to remind them
"Where is your eye protection" and "Where is your push stick." The lesson
about standing in the kickback zone I only have to cover once. What I do
after explaining what kickback is and the potential speed of a kickback
(Someone once told me it can be over 200 MPH. I have no idea if this is
true or not, but I use the figure anyway.) I stand behind the saw and lay
a board on the table. I move the board back slowly to show where it would
hit if the board went straight back. Then I repeat, "Imagine this board
hitting you here (with the board strategically placed into my gonads) at
two hundred miles per hour." At that point I drop two ball bearings on
the floor and watch them slowly roll away. Every kid in the class winces
and I can see their knees coming together in an reflexive, protective
manner. For some unknown reason they ALWAYS remember that rule.

The old threaten their gonads trick!

Reminds me of the advice of Jeff Cooper, firearms expert. He always said if
you have to hold a gun on a bad guy to point it at their genitals. Every
male has an instinctive response of protecting the family jewels. His
extensive background in law enforcement proved this to be true. Combative
crazy men would calm right down when a gun was pointed there. Besides if
you have to shoot, a bullet to the pelvis area will almost always stop them
cold.

Look like you are practicing something similar in your shop. I am just
wondering if this is politically correct or not. I suppose it is because
most politically correct behavior is emasculating in some manner.
Congratulations on an original (and effective) teaching method.

"Lee Michaels" wrote:

Reminds me of the advice of Jeff Cooper, firearms expert. He always
said if you have to hold a gun on a bad guy to point it at their
genitals. Every male has an instinctive response of protecting the
family jewels. His extensive background in law enforcement proved
this to be true. Combative crazy men would calm right down when a
gun was pointed there. Besides if you have to shoot, a bullet to
the pelvis area will almost always stop them cold.


Another vote for a sawed off double barreled shot gun.

You don't have to be in your seat, just in the stadiumG.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Lee Michaels" wrote:

Reminds me of the advice of Jeff Cooper, firearms expert. He
always
said if you have to hold a gun on a bad guy to point it at their
genitals. Every male has an instinctive response of protecting the
family jewels. His extensive background in law enforcement proved
this to be true. Combative crazy men would calm right down when a
gun was pointed there. Besides if you have to shoot, a bullet to
the pelvis area will almost always stop them cold.


Another vote for a sawed off double barreled shot gun.

You don't have to be in your seat, just in the stadiumG.

Friend of mine, ex Ranger, used to say that. He got one. Took the
LFI shotgun class. Traded it on a 9mm.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
Look like you are practicing something similar in your shop. I am just
wondering if this is politically correct or not. I suppose it is because
most politically correct behavior is emasculating in some manner.

Considering the number of women that are getting into shop class these days,
I'm wondering what kind of reaction (after the initial laugh) you'd get out
of them?

Thanks for all the ideas.

Mitre sled is probably the safest way to go - time for me to build one
as I only have a 90 degree cross cut sled today.

My mitre gauge (an Incra 1000 SE) has sandpaper on it, but that is
also a good idea.

I also have Ed Bennet's TS Aligner and whole-heartedly agree that he's
a good guy and sells a good product.

After much thought I can only guess that vibration or a tiny movement
of the wood I was holding as the cut finished caused the
kickback/throwback (I'm not going to argue which it was 'cause I don't
have a slo-mo video of the action). In any case it was a bit more
exciting than I prefer when in woodworking mode.

Regards.

Tom

STAY OUT OF THE LINE OF FIRE, EVEN IF THE WEAPON IS "EMPTY"
(ain't no such thing!)