Many of the wooden quoins (corner blocks) on our 1870's Italianate
house have cracks and gaps in them.

I'm looking for a filler that would have the following properties:
- Paintable
- Sandable
- Exterior grade
- Able to withstand seasonal expansion/contraction cycles

Any suggestions?

I tried caulk, but it leaves a very messy result since it is not
sandable and leaves a rough film

I tried woodfill but it doesn't seem to hold up to the
expansion/contraction cycles

Thanks

You probably used the wrong caulk .

For exterior fills such as you want use silicon caulk which is paintable.

After you pump the caulk into the cracks wet your finger and smooth the lumps down.
If you apply the caulk with discretion you will not need a wet finger or sanding.

Be sure to read the labels as there is silicon caulk which is not paintable.

P D Q

"blueman" wrote in message ...
Many of the wooden quoins (corner blocks) on our 1870's Italianate
house have cracks and gaps in them.

I'm looking for a filler that would have the following properties:
- Paintable
- Sandable
- Exterior grade
- Able to withstand seasonal expansion/contraction cycles

Any suggestions?

I tried caulk, but it leaves a very messy result since it is not
sandable and leaves a rough film

I tried woodfill but it doesn't seem to hold up to the
expansion/contraction cycles

Thanks

"blueman" wrote in message
...
Many of the wooden quoins (corner blocks) on our 1870's Italianate
house have cracks and gaps in them.

I'm looking for a filler that would have the following properties:
- Paintable
- Sandable
- Exterior grade
- Able to withstand seasonal expansion/contraction cycles

Any suggestions?

I tried caulk, but it leaves a very messy result since it is not
sandable and leaves a rough film

I tried woodfill but it doesn't seem to hold up to the
expansion/contraction cycles

Thanks

This stuff works great.

http://tinyurl.com/5mqb6e

Max

"blueman" wrote:

Many of the wooden quoins (corner blocks) on our 1870's Italianate
house have cracks and gaps in them.

I'm looking for a filler that would have the following properties:
- Paintable
- Sandable
- Exterior grade
- Able to withstand seasonal expansion/contraction cycles

Any suggestions?

If you want a crack filler for wood, then epoxy and micro-balloons.

If you need a caulk, talk to SikaFlex tech service in Detroit (800#)
for an industrial version of 291 used in marine work.

Lew

"Max" writes:
"blueman" wrote in message
...
Many of the wooden quoins (corner blocks) on our 1870's Italianate
house have cracks and gaps in them.

I'm looking for a filler that would have the following properties:
- Paintable
- Sandable
- Exterior grade
- Able to withstand seasonal expansion/contraction cycles

Any suggestions?

I tried caulk, but it leaves a very messy result since it is not
sandable and leaves a rough film

I tried woodfill but it doesn't seem to hold up to the
expansion/contraction cycles

Thanks

This stuff works great.

http://tinyurl.com/5mqb6e

Max
Based on the description of "Scoop golf ball size amount of filler
into plastic lid and squeeze in a thin 3/4 inch long line of hardener
from the tube", this Minwax High Performance Wood Filler sounds
similar to Bondo -- is it just a wood colored bondo or does it have
properties better suited to wood repair?

Also, how does Minwax High Performance Wood Filler compare with epoxy
products such as SystemThree Sculpwood or Abatron's WoodExpox?

Thanks

"PDQ" writes:

You probably used the wrong caulk .

For exterior fills such as you want use silicon caulk which is paintable.

After you pump the caulk into the cracks wet your finger and smooth the lumps down.
If you apply the caulk with discretion you will not need a wet finger or sanding.

Be sure to read the labels as there is silicon caulk which is not paintable.

P D Q

I find that silicon caulks look even more caulk-like than the
latex-based caulks and that they are harder to work. And since they
are not workable or sandable after hardening, I don't know how you can
get a seamless repair. But maybe I am missing something here...

I really want something that will look and behave like wood so it will
fully blend in.


"blueman" wrote in message ...
Many of the wooden quoins (corner blocks) on our 1870's Italianate
house have cracks and gaps in them.

I'm looking for a filler that would have the following properties:
- Paintable
- Sandable
- Exterior grade
- Able to withstand seasonal expansion/contraction cycles

Any suggestions?

I tried caulk, but it leaves a very messy result since it is not
sandable and leaves a rough film

I tried woodfill but it doesn't seem to hold up to the
expansion/contraction cycles

Thanks

blueman wrote:
Many of the wooden quoins (corner blocks) on our 1870's Italianate
house have cracks and gaps in them.

I'm looking for a filler that would have the following properties:
- Paintable
- Sandable
- Exterior grade
- Able to withstand seasonal expansion/contraction cycles

Any suggestions?

I tried caulk, but it leaves a very messy result since it is not
sandable and leaves a rough film

I tried woodfill but it doesn't seem to hold up to the
expansion/contraction cycles

You didn't mention how big these gaps and cracks are. Nor how old. Age is
important because if the gaps/cracks are largish and old then the wood
surface on the interior of the gaps/cracks has aged and weathered and may
present an adhesion problem with whatever you put in.

You really have only three choices (and probably only two practical ones)...

1. Clean up the gaps/cracks and glue in wood splines or dutchmen with
weather proof glue. Probably not practical but if you decide on doing it
you need to have fresh wood to glue to and the way to do that is to cut
partially thru the quoin with a saw or router, choice dependant on width of
crack. Cut wide enough to have fresh wood on each side.

2. Caulk. True, it isn't all that sandable but it *is* sliceable. Handles
expansion and contraction well too. This would be my first choice for
smallish cracks - up to 1/8" or so. Caulk *can* be applied smoothly.

3. Resin with a filler. Two main choices of resin: polyester and epoxy.
Multiple choices of filler: saw dust, silica (Cabosil), micro balloons, talc
and more. Silica wouldn't be good, too rigid and hard to sand. Micro
balloons make a fairly easy to sand putty as does talc. Bondo is polyester
resin and talc.

The problem you may encounter with any resin/filler combo is wedging; i.e.,
expansion/contraction of the quoin against the rigid filler may either cause
the crack to crack more or push out the filler a bit.

I used to have a good sized wooden sailboat and used both Bondo and
proprietary filled epoxies to fill gouges and dings (never a crack though).
Both did a decent job, couldn't see any diffrerence between them; after a
year or two or three areas filled with either were a smidge proud and needed
to be sanded down again. Neither ever "let loose". I think Bondo is under
rated.

The only cracks I ever had were on a teak transom I put on. I fixed them
with teak splines as explained above.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

PDQ wrote:

snip

Be sure to read the labels as there is silicon caulk which is not paintable.

...which is just about all of them. Even the ones listed at "paintable"
don't hold paint well.

"Q: The kid at the do-it-yourself megastore sold me 100% silicon caulk.
He said I could paint it, but the paint just crawls off. Now what?

A: We have heard this one more times than you would believe. NOTHING
will EVER make 100% silicon caulk paintable. Not primer, not time, not
crying or praying. All you can do is scrape it all out, then re-caulk
with a painter's silconIZED acrylic caulk. And hope you don't have to
buy a new trim package."

http://nicholasvillepaint.net/faq/faq.htm

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On Jun 14, 10:03 pm, blueman wrote:
Many of the wooden quoins (corner blocks) on our 1870's Italianate
house have cracks and gaps in them.

I'm looking for a filler that would have the following properties:
- Paintable
- Sandable
- Exterior grade
- Able to withstand seasonal expansion/contraction cycles

Any suggestions?

I tried caulk, but it leaves a very messy result since it is not
sandable and leaves a rough film

I tried woodfill but it doesn't seem to hold up to the
expansion/contraction cycles

Thanks

You might consider replacing the compromised quoins (good usage by the
way - almost everyone incorrectly calls them 'coins') with something
like Azek or another expanded PVC product? The stuff holds paint
wonderfully well and is very easy to work.

R

"dadiOH" writes:
blueman wrote:
Many of the wooden quoins (corner blocks) on our 1870's Italianate
house have cracks and gaps in them.

I'm looking for a filler that would have the following properties:
- Paintable
- Sandable
- Exterior grade
- Able to withstand seasonal expansion/contraction cycles

Any suggestions?

I tried caulk, but it leaves a very messy result since it is not
sandable and leaves a rough film

I tried woodfill but it doesn't seem to hold up to the
expansion/contraction cycles

You didn't mention how big these gaps and cracks are. Nor how old. Age is
important because if the gaps/cracks are largish and old then the wood
surface on the interior of the gaps/cracks has aged and weathered and may
present an adhesion problem with whatever you put in.

Good point. Given the age of the house and the fact that upkeep has
been variable over the past 150 years, I would assume that most of the
cracks are old and have weathered.

In terms of size. They vary in width from hairline to maybe 1/4" (or
3/8"), with most of the fillable ones being more like 1/16" to 1/8".


You really have only three choices (and probably only two practical ones)...

1. Clean up the gaps/cracks and glue in wood splines or dutchmen with
weather proof glue. Probably not practical but if you decide on doing it
you need to have fresh wood to glue to and the way to do that is to cut
partially thru the quoin with a saw or router, choice dependant on width of
crack. Cut wide enough to have fresh wood on each side.

2. Caulk. True, it isn't all that sandable but it *is* sliceable. Handles
expansion and contraction well too. This would be my first choice for
smallish cracks - up to 1/8" or so. Caulk *can* be applied smoothly.

3. Resin with a filler. Two main choices of resin: polyester and epoxy.
Multiple choices of filler: saw dust, silica (Cabosil), micro balloons, talc
and more. Silica wouldn't be good, too rigid and hard to sand. Micro
balloons make a fairly easy to sand putty as does talc. Bondo is polyester
resin and talc.

The problem you may encounter with any resin/filler combo is wedging; i.e.,
expansion/contraction of the quoin against the rigid filler may either cause
the crack to crack more or push out the filler a bit.

I used to have a good sized wooden sailboat and used both Bondo and
proprietary filled epoxies to fill gouges and dings (never a crack though).
Both did a decent job, couldn't see any diffrerence between them; after a
year or two or three areas filled with either were a smidge proud and needed
to be sanded down again. Neither ever "let loose". I think Bondo is under
rated.

How would you compare the following resins:
Bondo (cheap!)
Miniwax High Performance Wood Filler
SystemThree SculptWood
Abatron WoodEpox

Thanks!

The only cracks I ever had were on a teak transom I put on. I fixed them
with teak splines as explained above.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"blueman" wrote in message
...
"Max" writes:
"blueman" wrote in message
...
Many of the wooden quoins (corner blocks) on our 1870's Italianate
house have cracks and gaps in them.

I'm looking for a filler that would have the following properties:
- Paintable
- Sandable
- Exterior grade
- Able to withstand seasonal expansion/contraction cycles

Any suggestions?

I tried caulk, but it leaves a very messy result since it is not
sandable and leaves a rough film

I tried woodfill but it doesn't seem to hold up to the
expansion/contraction cycles

Thanks

This stuff works great.

http://tinyurl.com/5mqb6e

Max
Based on the description of "Scoop golf ball size amount of filler
into plastic lid and squeeze in a thin 3/4 inch long line of hardener
from the tube", this Minwax High Performance Wood Filler sounds
similar to Bondo -- is it just a wood colored bondo or does it have
properties better suited to wood repair?

Also, how does Minwax High Performance Wood Filler compare with epoxy
products such as SystemThree Sculpwood or Abatron's WoodExpox?

Thanks

Are the quoins painted or stained.
Here's a sample of some patching I did.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mdinep/

Max

"Nova" wrote in message news:l095k.20427$3j2.12410@trnddc03...
PDQ wrote:

snip

Be sure to read the labels as there is silicon caulk which is not paintable.

..which is just about all of them. Even the ones listed at "paintable"
don't hold paint well.

"Q: The kid at the do-it-yourself megastore sold me 100% silicon caulk.
He said I could paint it, but the paint just crawls off. Now what?

A: We have heard this one more times than you would believe. NOTHING
will EVER make 100% silicon caulk paintable. Not primer, not time, not
crying or praying. All you can do is scrape it all out, then re-caulk
with a painter's silconIZED acrylic caulk. And hope you don't have to
buy a new trim package."

http://nicholasvillepaint.net/faq/faq.htm

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA


Interesting observation.

The only time I had silicon not take "paint" was when I tried to apply a stain first - dumb move.

I found the caulk did not like stain but still took to acrylic paint. I used the caulk to seal cracks between my windows and stone walls.

I have some caulking that is in need of replacement - it is almost 30 years old and the paint is still on it. Only problem is time has started to blacken the fills.

Who knows, maybe I was using painter's silconIZED acrylic caulk all along.

P D Q

PDQ wrote:
"Nova" wrote in message
news:l095k.20427$3j2.12410@trnddc03...
PDQ wrote:

snip

Be sure to read the labels as there is silicon caulk which is not
paintable.

..which is just about all of them. Even the ones listed at
"paintable" don't hold paint well.

"Q: The kid at the do-it-yourself megastore sold me 100% silicon
caulk. He said I could paint it, but the paint just crawls off. Now
what?

A: We have heard this one more times than you would believe.
NOTHING
will EVER make 100% silicon caulk paintable. Not primer, not time,
not crying or praying. All you can do is scrape it all out, then
re-caulk with a painter's silconIZED acrylic caulk. And hope you
don't have to buy a new trim package."

http://nicholasvillepaint.net/faq/faq.htm

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA


Interesting observation.

The only time I had silicon not take "paint" was when I tried to
apply a stain first - dumb move.

I found the caulk did not like stain but still took to acrylic
paint.
I used the caulk to seal cracks between my windows and stone walls.

I have some caulking that is in need of replacement - it is almost
30
years old and the paint is still on it. Only problem is time has
started to blacken the fills.

Who knows, maybe I was using painter's silconIZED acrylic caulk all
along.

You sure that you weren't using acrylic caulk with no silicone in
sight all along?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message ...

SNIP

Who knows, maybe I was using painter's silconIZED acrylic caulk all
along.

You sure that you weren't using acrylic caulk with no silicone in
sight all along?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)



Not likely. I make a habit of only getting silicone as it gives me the best results.

P D Q

blueman wrote:

How would you compare the following resins:
Bondo (cheap!)
Miniwax High Performance Wood Filler
SystemThree SculptWood
Abatron WoodEpox

I can't. The only one I've used is Bondo; actually, "automobile body
filler" - Bondo is a trade name.

I suspect the Minwax one is Bondo revisted. The System Threee would be an
epoxy with some type of filler, I know not what. Ditto the Abatron.

Just as a general thing, anything with epoxy will have better adhesion than
one with polyester resin (Bondo). However, beaucoup tons of polyester have
been used...both now and over the past 50+ years to repair/fabricate boats
and fix dings in cars. Seems to last pretty well

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

blueman wrote:

How would you compare the following resins:
Bondo (cheap!)
Miniwax High Performance Wood Filler
SystemThree SculptWood
Abatron WoodEpox

I've used Bondo and Minwax. Minwax is a better product for your
application. It appears to me to be just an epoxy mixed with some sort
of filler, possibly even wood dust. You add a hardener just like you
would with regular epoxy. It sets pretty fast so it's not a good idea
to mix a lot at once.
It's paintable, sandable, water proof and easy to shape.
The only reason I haven't used the other products mentioned is cost and
availability. (Minwax is available at the Borg)

Max

On Jun 15, 1:34 pm, "PDQ" wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in ...

SNIP

Who knows, maybe I was using painter's silconIZED acrylic caulk all
along.

You sure that you weren't using acrylic caulk with no silicone in
sight all along?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Not likely. I make a habit of only getting silicone as it gives me the best results.

Silicone is a homeowner's caulk, far as I'm concerned. There's
limited use for the stuff other than in bathrooms and for very limited
uses on the outside (vinyl windows to vinyl siding - and I'd still
prefer the alternative). People use silicone because that's what
they're familiar with. Polyurethane and polysulfide caulks provide
superior results as anyone who uses caulk in a marine environment can
attest. They're also more expensive, but that's the, ahem, price you
pay.

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message ...
On Jun 15, 1:34 pm, "PDQ" wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in ...

SNIP

Silicone is a homeowner's caulk, far as I'm concerned. There's
limited use for the stuff other than in bathrooms and for very limited
uses on the outside (vinyl windows to vinyl siding - and I'd still
prefer the alternative). People use silicone because that's what
they're familiar with. Polyurethane and polysulfide caulks provide
superior results as anyone who uses caulk in a marine environment can
attest. They're also more expensive, but that's the, ahem, price you
pay.

R

Must be you have one of those holes in the ocean into which one pours money.

P D Q

"RicodJour" wrote:

Silicone is a homeowner's caulk, far as I'm concerned.

Strictly the bottom of ther bucket stuff.

Polyurethane and polysulfide caulks provide
superior results as anyone who uses caulk in a marine environment
can
attest.

Absolutely.

They're also more expensive, but that's the, ahem, price you
pay.

IMHO, for the small amount spent on caulking for a project, avoiding
silicone is a no-brainer.

Lew

blueman wrote:

How would you compare the following resins:

Bondo (cheap!)

You saiid it, also poor adhesion.

Miniwax High Performance Wood Filler

?

SystemThree SculptWood

Takes the mystery out of mixing up fairing.

Pricey but convenient.

It will also get the job done.

Abatron WoodEpox

?

HTH


Lew


Lew

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 21:47:08 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

IMHO, for the small amount spent on caulking for a project, avoiding
silicone is a no-brainer.

Can you guys suggest some specific products for those of us who don't
know this stuff?

As boring as a product like caulk is, I'm learning something here...

Thanks!

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

Nova wrote in news:l095k.20427$3j2.12410@trnddc03:

..which is just about all of them. Even the ones listed at
"paintable" don't hold paint well.

"Q: The kid at the do-it-yourself megastore sold me 100% silicon
caulk. He said I could paint it, but the paint just crawls off. Now
what?

A: We have heard this one more times than you would believe. NOTHING
will EVER make 100% silicon caulk paintable. Not primer, not time, not
crying or praying. All you can do is scrape it all out, then re-caulk
with a painter's silconIZED acrylic caulk. And hope you don't have to
buy a new trim package."

http://nicholasvillepaint.net/faq/faq.htm


Think it would work alright if you used the silicon caulk, and after
applying added some sawdust on the outside? That way, the saw dust would
be embedded in the caulk, and hopefully take paint. I think they
actually use a similar process with teflon pans.

I realize it's definately a "the store's closed, and this has GOT to get
done NOW" solutions.

Puckdropper
--
If you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

Puckdropper wrote:
Nova wrote in
news:l095k.20427$3j2.12410@trnddc03:

..which is just about all of them. Even the ones listed at
"paintable" don't hold paint well.

"Q: The kid at the do-it-yourself megastore sold me 100% silicon
caulk. He said I could paint it, but the paint just crawls off. Now
what?

A: We have heard this one more times than you would believe.
NOTHING
will EVER make 100% silicon caulk paintable. Not primer, not time,
not crying or praying. All you can do is scrape it all out, then
re-caulk with a painter's silconIZED acrylic caulk. And hope you
don't have to buy a new trim package."

http://nicholasvillepaint.net/faq/faq.htm


Think it would work alright if you used the silicon caulk, and after
applying added some sawdust on the outside? That way, the saw dust
would be embedded in the caulk, and hopefully take paint. I think
they actually use a similar process with teflon pans.

I realize it's definately a "the store's closed, and this has GOT to
get done NOW" solutions.

You could if you're truly desparate try
http://www.artmolds.com/index.cfm?u_cat=104&page=0. No guarantees
that it will work with any silcone other than the same company's
casting materials though.


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Max" writes:
"blueman" wrote in message
...
"Max" writes:
"blueman" wrote in message
...
Many of the wooden quoins (corner blocks) on our 1870's Italianate
house have cracks and gaps in them.

I'm looking for a filler that would have the following properties:
- Paintable
- Sandable
- Exterior grade
- Able to withstand seasonal expansion/contraction cycles

Any suggestions?

I tried caulk, but it leaves a very messy result since it is not
sandable and leaves a rough film

I tried woodfill but it doesn't seem to hold up to the
expansion/contraction cycles

Thanks

This stuff works great.

http://tinyurl.com/5mqb6e

Max
Based on the description of "Scoop golf ball size amount of filler
into plastic lid and squeeze in a thin 3/4 inch long line of hardener
from the tube", this Minwax High Performance Wood Filler sounds
similar to Bondo -- is it just a wood colored bondo or does it have
properties better suited to wood repair?

Also, how does Minwax High Performance Wood Filler compare with epoxy
products such as SystemThree Sculpwood or Abatron's WoodExpox?

Thanks

Are the quoins painted or stained.
Here's a sample of some patching I did.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mdinep/

Max

Painted

"Max" writes:

"blueman" wrote in message
...
"Max" writes:
"blueman" wrote in message
...
Many of the wooden quoins (corner blocks) on our 1870's Italianate
house have cracks and gaps in them.

I'm looking for a filler that would have the following properties:
- Paintable
- Sandable
- Exterior grade
- Able to withstand seasonal expansion/contraction cycles

Any suggestions?

I tried caulk, but it leaves a very messy result since it is not
sandable and leaves a rough film

I tried woodfill but it doesn't seem to hold up to the
expansion/contraction cycles

Thanks

This stuff works great.

http://tinyurl.com/5mqb6e

Max
Based on the description of "Scoop golf ball size amount of filler
into plastic lid and squeeze in a thin 3/4 inch long line of hardener
from the tube", this Minwax High Performance Wood Filler sounds
similar to Bondo -- is it just a wood colored bondo or does it have
properties better suited to wood repair?

Also, how does Minwax High Performance Wood Filler compare with epoxy
products such as SystemThree Sculpwood or Abatron's WoodExpox?

Thanks

Are the quoins painted or stained.
Here's a sample of some patching I did.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mdinep/

Nice patching job!!!!

"Lew Hodgett" writes:
blueman wrote:

How would you compare the following resins:

Bondo (cheap!)

You saiid it, also poor adhesion.
I also find Bondo a bit harder to work since it is so darn sticky (it
sticks to any type of tool you use to apply it and shape it). I also
have noted that when it is sanded thin it can sometimes peel off
(probably what you mean by poor adhesion).

But it is cheap and I have used it successfully for interior,
non-structural uses.


Miniwax High Performance Wood Filler

?
Still curious whether this is just high priced Bondo or whether it is
more like a SystemThree epoxy. The fast setup time and mention of
drawing out a thin bead of hardener plus the description of a noxious
volatile odor reminds me more of Bondo.


SystemThree SculptWood

Takes the mystery out of mixing up fairing.
I have used SculptWood a bit my only complaints a
- It's pricey (as you mention)
- It is also hard to tool but it's the opposite extreme of Bondo --
I find that it is not sticky enough and that it is hard to lay out
a thin layer with a putty knife - though it is great for filling
bigger gaps or for shaping missing pieces.

On the positive side, it is easy to mix (just knead together two equal
size balls), it has minimal odor, and it has a longer setup time than
Bondo (actually I would love to have something between the 5-10min pot
time of Bondo and the 8 hours or so it takes SculptWood to harden
enough to sand)

Pricey but convenient.

It will also get the job done.

Abatron WoodEpox

?
I'm curious about Abatron since they advertise a lot in Fine
Homebuilding and other mags.

HTH


Lew


Lew

"Lew Hodgett" writes:
SystemThree SculptWood

Takes the mystery out of mixing up fairing.

OK - Now you have tickled my interest.
- How would I make up a SculptWood equivalent using epoxy and fairing?
- What products would you recommend?
- What proportions?
- Would the epoxy+fairing mixture have the same workability when
mixed? Would it have the same sandability and wood-like
machineability when cured?

Pricey but convenient.
Would making it yourself really be that much cheaper?

Last time I looked, the West System hardener and Resin were not
exactly cheap either. Just to keep the comparisons apples-to-apples,
I looked at Jamestown Distributors online and used similar volumes
(i.e. I didn't compare pints of one to gallons of another)

System Three Sculpwood: $34 for 2 pint kit (1 each hardener & resin)

West System Epoxy Resin (1 quart) $34.95, Hardener (0.44 pint)
$16.25, West Low Density Filler (12 oz) $34.45

So, it seems to me that if anything, making it yourself using West
System is even a little more expensive. Am I missing something obvious
here?

Thanks,
Jeff

RicodJour writes:

On Jun 14, 10:03 pm, blueman wrote:
Many of the wooden quoins (corner blocks) on our 1870's Italianate
house have cracks and gaps in them.

I'm looking for a filler that would have the following properties:
- Paintable
- Sandable
- Exterior grade
- Able to withstand seasonal expansion/contraction cycles

Any suggestions?

I tried caulk, but it leaves a very messy result since it is not
sandable and leaves a rough film

I tried woodfill but it doesn't seem to hold up to the
expansion/contraction cycles

Thanks

You might consider replacing the compromised quoins (good usage by the
way - almost everyone incorrectly calls them 'coins') with something
like Azek or another expanded PVC product? The stuff holds paint
wonderfully well and is very easy to work.

R

True but....

- The quoins have a raised-panel like profile that I would need to
match and machine. Also, being 150 years old, they are not likely to
be standard dimensional lumber (or synthetic) thickness so I would
probably also need to plane it to thickness. Finally, since nearly
all the quoins have some cracking, it would be a lot of work given 4
corners (times two sides of each corner) time 2 full stories.

- Given the "historical" nature of the house, I am a bit "snobby"
about trying to do a faithful restoration using the original
materials like wood (though sometimes I do think that I should just
swab the whole house in vinyl siding, vinyl windows, PVC trim, etc.
and be done with all the upkeep

Thanks

How would you compare the following resins:
Bondo (cheap!)
Miniwax High Performance Wood Filler
SystemThree SculptWood
Abatron WoodEpox

Get the comparison and the low-down over here at my website:

http://www.historichomeworks.com/hhw...JEpoxy2004.htm

then see the Report on Wood-Epoxy Repairs:

http://www.historichomeworks.com/hhw...poxy%20Repairs

and join the epoxy discussion at the Forum:

http://historichomeworks.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=4

There is a lot to be said for traditional woodwork repairs too. See
the current Report from the Field:

www.HistoricHomeWorks.com

take care, work safe and keep in touch.

John

"blueman" wrote:


I also find Bondo a bit harder to work since it is so darn sticky
(it
sticks to any type of tool you use to apply it and shape it).

I've got better things to do than waste my time on Bondo.

I have used SculptWood a bit my only complaints a
- It's pricey (as you mention)
- It is also hard to tool but it's the opposite extreme of Bondo --
I find that it is not sticky enough and that it is hard to lay
out
a thin layer with a putty knife - though it is great for filling
bigger gaps or for shaping missing pieces.

So buy a gallon kit, (5 gal bucket if it's a big job) of epoxy (Slow
hardener), a bag of mico-balloons and mix your own putty to whatever
consistency works for you as well as reduce cost.

You will get at least 30 minute pot life.

If working outdoors, don't work in direct summer sun.

HTH

Lew

"blueman" wrote:

OK - Now you have tickled my interest.
- How would I make up a SculptWood equivalent using epoxy and
fairing?

See response to previous post.

- What products would you recommend?
- What proportions?

- Would the epoxy+fairing mixture have the same workability when
mixed? Would it have the same sandability and wood-like
machineability when cured?

They are selling you a form of fairing putty.

Would making it yourself really be that much cheaper?

Yes.


Last time I looked, the West System hardener and Resin were not
exactly cheap either.

It's all in the packaging.

You are looking at small repair kit pricing.

Buy a 5 gal bucket (45 lbs) of resin and a gallon of hardener and
watch the price drop.

A 30# bag of Dicaperl (HP-500) (micro-balloons) was less than $25 the
last time I bought a bag.

Am I missing something obvious
here?

Yes.

Lew

On Jun 15, 10:36 pm, blueman wrote:
RicodJour writes:
On Jun 14, 10:03 pm, blueman wrote:
Many of the wooden quoins (corner blocks) on our 1870's Italianate
house have cracks and gaps in them.

I'm looking for a filler that would have the following properties:
- Paintable
- Sandable
- Exterior grade
- Able to withstand seasonal expansion/contraction cycles

Any suggestions?

I tried caulk, but it leaves a very messy result since it is not
sandable and leaves a rough film

I tried woodfill but it doesn't seem to hold up to the
expansion/contraction cycles

Thanks

You might consider replacing the compromised quoins (good usage by the
way - almost everyone incorrectly calls them 'coins') with something
like Azek or another expanded PVC product? The stuff holds paint
wonderfully well and is very easy to work.

True but....

- The quoins have a raised-panel like profile that I would need to
match and machine. Also, being 150 years old, they are not likely to
be standard dimensional lumber (or synthetic) thickness so I would
probably also need to plane it to thickness. Finally, since nearly
all the quoins have some cracking, it would be a lot of work given 4
corners (times two sides of each corner) time 2 full stories.

You wouldn't be planing the PVC down, you'd be building it up if
anything.

Here's the matching and machining process. Buy a sheet of expanded
PVC (comes in plywood sized sheets and thicknesses up to 1"), run
sheet through table saw and cut blocks to size, tilt blade to required
raised panel angle, run blocks through table saw on all four sides.

Without seeing your situation, and not knowing the exact dimensions,
but being an expert with a lot of experience in wild assed guesses,
I'm guesstimating one or two 1" 4x8 sheets per corner - that's about
$140 - $280 per corner. The stuff also comes in 16" (nominal) width
plank, if that fits your needs better.

The sheets are available in much longer lengths. From the Azek site:
"AZEK Sheets are the perfect trim product for pop-out bay window,
raised panel, dormers, soffit and other trim applications over 16
inches wide. AZEK Sheets are available in 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4 and 1
inch thicknesses and in sheet sizes from 4ft x 8ft up to 4ft x 20ft."

- Given the "historical" nature of the house, I am a bit "snobby"
about trying to do a faithful restoration using the original
materials like wood (though sometimes I do think that I should just
swab the whole house in vinyl siding, vinyl windows, PVC trim, etc.
and be done with all the upkeep

I understand the desire to remain faithful, but using expanded PVC
trim and painting it, well, you're the only one who would ever know,
and the main ways you'd know would be the reduced amount of required
maintenance and the extra time and money. Then again it isn't my
money and I shouldn't be saving it for you. You also should
remember that the guys that built your house would have used a
weatherproof and maintenance free product if there were any available
back then. Frankly, it would be no different than using Ice and Water
Shield under the shingles when you reroof - it's an improvement that
doesn't compromise the quality or look of the house at all.

BTW, if you have white trim, you don't have to paint the Azek at all.
If you have dark painted trim, you don't want to use expanded PVC - it
doesn't like dark paint and strong sun as it expands too much.

R

Yes, please. I second Barry's request!

B A R R Y wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 21:47:08 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

IMHO, for the small amount spent on caulking for a project, avoiding
silicone is a no-brainer.

Can you guys suggest some specific products for those of us who don't
know this stuff?

As boring as a product like caulk is, I'm learning something here...

Yes, please. I second Barry's request!

Until now, I thought the options fer sealing cracks - forget painting
over 'em - were silicon caulk and tar. (Ok, not entirely true, but
close enough.)

Jason Buckler
Marietta, GA

"Lew Hodgett" writes:
"blueman" wrote:

OK - Now you have tickled my interest.
- How would I make up a SculptWood equivalent using epoxy and
fairing?

See response to previous post.

- What products would you recommend?
- What proportions?

- Would the epoxy+fairing mixture have the same workability when
mixed? Would it have the same sandability and wood-like
machineability when cured?

They are selling you a form of fairing putty.

Would making it yourself really be that much cheaper?

Yes.


Last time I looked, the West System hardener and Resin were not
exactly cheap either.

It's all in the packaging.

You are looking at small repair kit pricing.

Buy a 5 gal bucket (45 lbs) of resin and a gallon of hardener and
watch the price drop.

A 30# bag of Dicaperl (HP-500) (micro-balloons) was less than $25 the
last time I bought a bag.

Sounds good. But why is the West Systems micro-balloons fairing soooo
much more expensive? (15oz for $30, 14lb for $300!!!!)

(BTW, when I googled, Dicaperl HP-500, I mostly got articles about
nuclear waste disposal and couldn't find any online sites selling
it -- where can I buy it?)

Also, if I go with West Systems and had to choose one hardener to
start, would you recommend the Fast (205), Slow (206), or Extra Slow
(209)?

Finally, other than experience and trial-and-error, how do you figure
out how much fairing to add?

Thanks


Am I missing something obvious
here?

Yes.

Lew

"blueman" wrote:

Sounds good. But why is the West Systems micro-balloons fairing
soooo
much more expensive? (15oz for $30, 14lb for $300!!!!)

Sounds like phenolic balloons which are super light weight for the
race boat crowd.

They are VERY expensive and unneeded for this application unless you
plan to race your house in a sailboat raceG..

(BTW, when I googled, Dicaperl HP-500, I mostly got articles about
nuclear waste disposal and couldn't find any online sites selling
it -- where can I buy it?)

Try "Dicaperl" to find a distributor in your area, then ask them for
HP-500.

Corporate hd'qrs are here in Torrence (Los Angeles). HP500 mis mined
in Colorado, New Mexico area.

Also, if I go with West Systems and had to choose one hardener to
start, would you recommend the Fast (205), Slow (206), or Extra Slow
(209)?

You want slow or extra slow.

Finally, other than experience and trial-and-error, how do you
figure
out how much fairing to add?

Ever do any cooking?

You get a feel for it in a hurry.

Mix up 3-4 OZ of resin, then add balloons, mixing until it feels like
what you want.

It ain't rocket science.

Just make sure you wear protective clothing such as gloves.

Got a Harbor Freight around you?

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" writes:
"blueman" wrote:

Sounds good. But why is the West Systems micro-balloons fairing
soooo
much more expensive? (15oz for $30, 14lb for $300!!!!)

Sounds like phenolic balloons which are super light weight for the
race boat crowd.

They are VERY expensive and unneeded for this application unless you
plan to race your house in a sailboat raceG..

(BTW, when I googled, Dicaperl HP-500, I mostly got articles about
nuclear waste disposal and couldn't find any online sites selling
it -- where can I buy it?)

Try "Dicaperl" to find a distributor in your area, then ask them for
HP-500.

Corporate hd'qrs are here in Torrence (Los Angeles). HP500 mis mined
in Colorado, New Mexico area.

Also, if I go with West Systems and had to choose one hardener to
start, would you recommend the Fast (205), Slow (206), or Extra Slow
(209)?

You want slow or extra slow.

Finally, other than experience and trial-and-error, how do you
figure
out how much fairing to add?

Ever do any cooking?

You get a feel for it in a hurry.

Mix up 3-4 OZ of resin, then add balloons, mixing until it feels like
what you want.

It ain't rocket science.

Just make sure you wear protective clothing such as gloves.

Got a Harbor Freight around you?

They are getting close... just started entering New England but not
Boston yet -- but I plan to take a ride out to one about 50 miles away
one day... What do they carry that I should look for?

Thanks Lew

"blueman" wrote:

They are getting close... just started entering New England but not
Boston yet -- but I plan to take a ride out to one about 50 miles
away
one day... What do they carry that I should look for?


Boxes of non sterile surgical gloves ($5/100 max) and boxes of 2" chip
brushes($0.25 ea/max) when on sale.

Check their web site.

BTW, find a restaurant supply house, you are going to need paper cups.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"blueman" wrote:

They are getting close... just started entering New England but not
Boston yet -- but I plan to take a ride out to one about 50 miles
away
one day... What do they carry that I should look for?


Boxes of non sterile surgical gloves ($5/100 max) and boxes of 2" chip
brushes($0.25 ea/max) when on sale.

Check their web site.

BTW, find a restaurant supply house, you are going to need paper cups.

Lew


And save things like Cool Whip containers. Cured epoxy pops right out of
them.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Jun 17, 7:15 am, "dadiOH" wrote:

And save things like Cool Whip containers. Cured epoxy pops right out of
them.

It's amazing how many kitchen implements and recycled food containers
I have in the shop. I can tell which room I'm in by the smell - the
shop smells better! I am one lousy cook and I love the smell of
shop.

R

What you want is an epoxy make for wood repairs like Abatron. I've
also used MAS epoxy with wood powder added. Bondo and Minwax wood
filler won't be flexible enough. on this old house last season or so,
they used stuff from Advanced Repair Technology
http://www.advancedrepair.com/archit...ural_epoxy.htm

hth
Eric