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Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
"CW" wrote : ............................... Longer planes, : since they ride the high points, can not get down into the lows to plane : them. So what you end up doing is knocking of those high spots. It still : takes a bit of skill but it is easier with a longer plane. I'm not much for : explaining things but you probably get the idea. Coming late into this .............. It can be shown theoretically, and many know from experience, that all hand planes can plane a concave edge. The radius of the curve (assuming it to be circular, which it might not be) is proportional to the square of the length of the plane divided by the set. Hence the longer the plane, the nearer the curve is to a straight line. This assumes normal operation of course, ie trying to plane a straight edge (ie not a convex one) with one continuous shaving from end to end. Most of us want to form a slight concavity when jointing panels where cramps hold the material while the glue sets. This has the advantage that the joint is more likely to stay closed at the ends as the ends of the panels shrink in consequene of long term seasonal changes. Depending on how 'perfectly' is defined, it is possible by some planing of the ends to get two edges straight enough to exactly mate without cramp pressure. This is how in the past, the workers made 'rubbed' joints with instant-grabbing 'Scotch' glue (or to the Murricans, 'hide' glue). Hot glue was applied to both edges, the boards were rubbed together to remove surplus glue and the panel was laid aside to dry. I've seen men show off by gluing a rubbed joint and immediately throwing the panel to the floor. In my youth I've done it to impress the multitude. More about panel jointing on my web site - 'Planing Notes' - 'Rubbed Jointing'. Jeff G -- Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK Email address is username@ISP username is amgron ISP is clara.co.uk Website www.amgron.clara.net |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
Bay Area Dave wrote in message om...
that's PRECISELY why I can't see how a plane can make anything truly FLAT. A jointer wouldn't if it was set up like a plane. So what are we missing? Or is the emperor buck naked again? g and yet, as they say, the proof is in the tasting! ;) I can't see it either, but fact is I've done it many, many times. And it works. In fact this very same subject (of the salient blade) has been the target of arduous discussion in the old tools list. And no one has reached a satisfactory conclusion. All we seem to agree on is that it works... Cheers Nuno Souto am |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
"Christopher" wrote:
"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message om... When the blade takes a light cut, do you think we are talking on the order of 2 or 3 thous? dave You know, I'm not sure. I'll measure a couple shavings and see what I'm getting this weekend since I'm curious now. I don't really have a good feel for how thick a few thousands of an inch is. The thickness of magazine paper would be in the ballpark. I did this a while back, and hope I am remembering correctly, but I think I was getting shavings of about .002, a little less than 1/2 the thickness of a sheet of typing paper. BTW, on the original question, I don't think it is as bizarre as some do (although using a short plane for this purpose is). I think that the geometry of a hand plane is _in theory_ less likely to give a straight edge than a jointer. However, technique is all, with both tools. I have never found jointer edges straight to less than .002", so I don't feel that my #08 is likely to make the edge less straight. In fact, in my experience, for a long edge, the plane is much more likely to improve straightness, but maybe that's just my relative abilities with the two tools. -- Alex Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email. |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
alexy responds:
technique is all, with both tools. I have never found jointer edges straight to less than .002", so I don't feel that my #08 is likely to make the edge less straight. In fact, in my experience, for a long edge, the plane is much more likely to improve straightness, but maybe that's just my relative abilities with the two tools. As someone else said, if you butt two edges and hold them to the light, and no light shows in gaps, it's definitely as close as it needs to be. And now, I am going out an practice with a new E.C. Emmerich plough plane. Wood body, aluminum screws, wood fence. I've got a few pieces of scrap sycamore that are probably ideal for this. Charlie Self "Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." Sir Winston Churchill |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
"Christopher" wrote in message ... | | I don't really have a good feel for how thick a | few thousands of an inch is. Blond or flaxen human hair is between 0.0006 and 0.002 inch. Black hair is between 0.002 and 0.006 inch. I don't plane, but I don't see why a properly plane with a high-quality edge and a wide sole plate can't remove a shaving on the order of 0.005 inch. The question is why you'd want to, in general. I can see why joinery would want local tolerances in the mil range, but the porous and elastic nature of wood suggests that such high tolerances overall are wasted effort. Any milling operation, such as that done by a powered planer or joiner, will remove material using a circular cut that digs down into the material and then emerges from the surface again. The surface finish thus produced is a convolution of circular arcs, as seen in a section contrary to the "lay". This brings up what machinists call "feed and speed", which, together with the properties of the material, determine the geometry of the final finish. Obviously you've discovered that if your "feed" is too fast, you get a noticeable set of peaks and valleys. Slowing the feed rate helps, up to a point. If the feed is too slow, your chip won't retain enough strength, while still attached, to correctly resist the cut, and it will tear or fracture and possibly pit the underlying surface. A linear plane solves that problem but introduces questions of smoothness along the direction perpendicular to the stroke. The surface finish in that direction will be composed of piecewise linear segments corresponding to the "roll" of the plane (rotation along its long axis) as it straddles or bridges previous cuts. That's for flatness in the sub-inch realm. For flatness in the dozens-inches realm you have to look at your plane soles, your joiner tables, and the suitability of your tool fixtures. Highly elastic materials such as wood will "hog" during machining if not properly supported and/or restrained. --Jay |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
Thanks to everyone for the lively discussion. I just ordered the
Veritas low angle smoother... dave Bay Area Dave wrote: I was thinking about the difference between a jointer (powered) and a plane. A jointer has the outfeed table level with the blade so that as the work passes over the blade and onto the outfeed table, if the operator uses good technique to keep the board flat on the outfeed table, the board pretty much has to come out FLAT. A hand plane on the other hand isn't built that way. It has a projecting blade. So unless the sole of the plane is extraordinarily long, how can you get a perfectly machined straight board? Just for grins, I was using a tiny hand plane to plane the edge of a board and found that no matter how hard I tried, the small plane "unflattened" the straight edge I started with. The more passes, the worse it got. How long of a plane do you need to get a perfectly flat result on say a 2' board? a 6' board? Is it MOSTLY technique, or do you have to have a reference straight edge and keep checking your work constantly as you plane? OR do you just take a few light passes over an essentially flat board to start with, and know that it is flat? In other words, when I use the jointer, I KNOW it's flat. I don't have to check it. Can I do the same thing with a plane, or do you have to stop, eyeball it with a reference straight-edge, and then touch it up an little here, a little there? Lay it on me, WW gods! :) dave |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:38:55 GMT, Bay Area Dave wrote:
Thanks to everyone for the lively discussion. I just ordered the Veritas low angle smoother... Some 12' #3 Ipe, and you're all set. |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
Bay Area Dave wrote in message om...
I was thinking about the difference between a jointer (powered) and a plane. Dave, This is why you ****-off people like Scott (and the faceless rabble, too tired to play tard-ball with you anymore). I plugged this into Google: "hand plane differently jointer group:rec.woodworking" And got this: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=ha...ris.com&rnum=1 Now, this isn't to say you're not allowed to ask a question. Any significant discussion is liable to be cyclical (just keep reading those woodworking mags for a few years), but the most minor effort (and anyone's part) will at least allow you to begin to have a sniff of a clue of a partial brain-cell of an idea of a notion of what the hell you're talking about instead of the handtool equivalent of asking in alt.astronomy: Geeze fellers, why is the sky cullerd blue? (BTW - it's because the light wave-length our eye detects as blue is the most widely scattered by our gaseous atmosphere). There's a decent explanation he http://world.std.com/~mmcirvin/bluesky/index.html. It isn't rocket science, Dave. DAMHIKT. O'Deen |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
g Why don't YOU show me how to tame that bad boy?
dave Michael Baglio On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:38:55 GMT, Bay Area Dave wrote: Thanks to everyone for the lively discussion. I just ordered the Veritas low angle smoother... Some 12' #3 Ipe, and you're all set. |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
the only people "****ed off" are the cranky SOB's. Everyone else who
has contributed to this thread has been a gentleman. Perhaps you and cramer could use a little "charm"? For a while I thought this thread would avoid the nasty comments that a handful of the Wreckers are wont to make. Thanks to all who contributed USEFUL, ON-TOPIC posts. Olguin, you have lowered yourself to Cramer's level. I didn't think anyone else was in his league. QED dave Patrick Olguin wrote: snip rude comments |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
In article , Bay Area Dave wrote:
the only people "****ed off" are the cranky SOB's. Oh, yes, of course. The problem *must* be with EVERYBODY ELSE. It couldn't possibly be with YOU. Everyone else who has contributed to this thread has been a gentleman. Perhaps you and cramer could use a little "charm"? WTF?? BAD, suggesting that *others* "could use a little charm"? Pot, kettle, black. Physician, heal thyself. Etc. For a while I thought this thread would avoid the nasty comments that a handful of the Wreckers are wont to make. Thanks to all who contributed USEFUL, ON-TOPIC posts. You can dish it out (as your posts of about ten days ago clearly illustrated), but you can't take it. Olguin, you have lowered yourself to Cramer's level. I didn't think anyone else was in his league. QED Naw. He was simply pointing out, more politely than most, that you should develop the habit of seeking out information on your own, instead of yelping for help on each and every one of the all too frequent occasions when you find yourself bewildered. dave Patrick Olguin wrote: snip rude comments If you think that was "rude", Dave, you've led a *very* sheltered life. ["rude" comments restored below] Dave, This is why you ****-off people like Scott (and the faceless rabble, too tired to play tard-ball with you anymore). I plugged this into Google: "hand plane differently jointer group:rec.woodworking" And got this: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=ha...nter+group:rec. woodworking+group:rec.woodworking&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=rec. woodworking&safe=off&selm=Pine.SUN.3.96.9710231841 13.26434E-100000%40galileo. cris.com&rnum=1 Now, this isn't to say you're not allowed to ask a question. Any significant discussion is liable to be cyclical (just keep reading those woodworking mags for a few years), but the most minor effort (and anyone's part) will at least allow you to begin to have a sniff of a clue of a partial brain-cell of an idea of a notion of what the hell you're talking about instead of the handtool equivalent of asking in alt.astronomy: Geeze fellers, why is the sky cullerd blue? (BTW - it's because the light wave-length our eye detects as blue is the most widely scattered by our gaseous atmosphere). There's a decent explanation he http://world.std.com/~mmcirvin/bluesky/index.html. It isn't rocket science, Dave. DAMHIKT. O'Deen -- Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America? |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
The clear cellophane used to wrap cigarette packs is very close to
..001". I took a hand woodworking class where the instructor made us put away our jointer planes and edge joint two 3-foot walnut boards together with our Stanley #4's. It is much more difficult, but it is possible to get a light-tight joint that way, and it sure highlights the problems in your planing technique. I think throwing a football 30 yards and having it go right over the receiver's shoulder requires more absolute accuracy from a human arm and hand than making a good glue joint with a hand plane. "Christopher" wrote in message ... "Bay Area Dave" wrote in message m... When the blade takes a light cut, do you think we are talking on the order of 2 or 3 thous? dave You know, I'm not sure. I'll measure a couple shavings and see what I'm getting this weekend since I'm curious now. I don't really have a good feel for how thick a few thousands of an inch is. The thickness of magazine paper would be in the ballpark. -Chris |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
|
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
Scott Cramer wrote in message 07.54...
'Automobile' doesn't tell us anything about internal combustion or differential gearing, however, we understand it to mean a self-propelled vehicle. Nor do we need to understand how it works to know THAT it works. The formal scientific name for the thermodynamic cycle on which the 4 cycle engine runs is the 'Otto' cycle, named for a German engineer. 'Automobile' is actually a corruption of 'Ottomobile.' -- FF ;-) |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
Hitch wrote in message ...
Read the sources listed below, but short of that: - jointer planes run 22" to 24" long, generally; - you can make nice, flat surfaces for joining with them and lots of practice; - you can use the edge of the plane as your straightedge while planing; - there are some tricks to creating joinable board edges (e.g., jointing both boards at once to remove one variable in the process). I'll add that an electric jointer uses a rotary cutter that results in a scalloped surface. You can do better with a handplane. Or at least some folks can. -- FF |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
Bay Area Dave wrote in message om...
Good point, Chris. Creating a bevel would be another concern of mine as a newbie Neander. Maybe I could put some "training wheels" on my plane (when I actually GET one) to keep it on the straight and narrow. It's called a jointer fence. The Stanley 386 is a good one. Or you can cut a rebate on a board and clamp it to the cheek of the plane. Little tiny C-clamps would be OK. You could drill and tap the cheeks for attaching a jointer fence--I,m surprised none of the major plane makers ever did as a standard feature. Don't know of any monor ones who did either. -- FF |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
or, if I had money falling out of my jeans, I could get an edge plane
from Lee Valley! I just got their new catalog yesterday. I found a plane whose sole purpose is to edge joint. $125 or so IIRC. I should get my smoother in a week or so. dave Fred the Red Shirt wrote: Bay Area Dave wrote in message om... Good point, Chris. Creating a bevel would be another concern of mine as a newbie Neander. Maybe I could put some "training wheels" on my plane (when I actually GET one) to keep it on the straight and narrow. It's called a jointer fence. The Stanley 386 is a good one. Or you can cut a rebate on a board and clamp it to the cheek of the plane. Little tiny C-clamps would be OK. You could drill and tap the cheeks for attaching a jointer fence--I,m surprised none of the major plane makers ever did as a standard feature. Don't know of any monor ones who did either. |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
Just like Cramer is a corruption of the gene pool...
dave Fred the Red Shirt wrote: snip 'Automobile' is actually a corruption of 'Ottomobile.' |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
please tell the dougster that my alleged shortcomings do nothing, nada,
nyet, to negate Cramer's disgusting off-topic personal attacks. how can he argue with me unless you are going to keep quoting him? At least my glass is half full. dave wrote: snip um doug? you waging a full scale argument with a half wit? :-} |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:43:02 GMT, Bay Area Dave wrote:
please tell the dougster that my alleged shortcomings do nothing, nada, nyet, to negate Cramer's disgusting off-topic personal attacks. how can he argue with me unless you are going to keep quoting him? At least my glass is half full. dave wrote: snip um doug? you waging a full scale argument with a half wit? :-} why hello BAD i was worried you may have plonked me too. i can sleep better now thank you. :-} skeez |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
On 13 Nov 2003, Bay Area Dave whimpered unto rec.woodworking:
please tell the dougster that my alleged shortcomings do nothing, nada, nyet, to negate Cramer's disgusting off-topic personal attacks. how can he argue with me unless you are going to keep quoting him? At least my glass is half full. Was it something I said? um doug? you waging a full scale argument with a half wit? :-} The hallmark of BAD's presence here is the way he blunders unarmed into a battle of wits. |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
|
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
I don't think so. But it was a nice try.
Automobile is auto-mobile or self moving/motion. Just like autograph is your self written mark and autobiography is your self written story. Back when the term was initiated all self moving vehicles, including the electrics and steamers, were called automobiles. Art "Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message 'Automobile' is actually a corruption of 'Ottomobile.' |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
On 13 Nov 2003, Wood Butcher spake unto rec.woodworking:
I don't think so. But it was a nice try. Automobile is auto-mobile or self moving/motion. Just like autograph is your self written mark and autobiography is your self written story. Back when the term was initiated all self moving vehicles, including the electrics and steamers, were called automobiles. Art "Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message 'Automobile' is actually a corruption of 'Ottomobile.' And I suppose the bra was NOT invented by a guy named Titzling? Or the toilet by Thomas Crapper? |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
Bay Area Dave writes:
or, if I had money falling out of my jeans, I could get an edge plane from Lee Valley! I just got their new catalog yesterday. I found a plane whose sole purpose is to edge joint. $125 or so IIRC. I should get my smoother in a week or so. Dave, Please note that the edge plane from lee valley cannot be used to prepare an edge in place of jointing. The edge plane will only assure the edge is square to the face. It will follow hills and valleys along the length of the board. You must still joint the board first. It may be useful to eliminate the scalloping left by a power jointer, if one takes a very fine cut. scott |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
Nope.
http://www.snopes.com/business/origins/bra.asp http://www.snopes.com/business/names/crapper.asp Art "Scott Cramer" wrote in message 7.53... On 13 Nov 2003, Wood Butcher spake unto rec.woodworking: I don't think so. But it was a nice try. Automobile is auto-mobile or self moving/motion. Just like autograph is your self written mark and autobiography is your self written story. Back when the term was initiated all self moving vehicles, including the electrics and steamers, were called automobiles. Art "Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message 'Automobile' is actually a corruption of 'Ottomobile.' And I suppose the bra was NOT invented by a guy named Titzling? Or the toilet by Thomas Crapper? |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
Are your eyes brown?
Art "Bay Area Dave" wrote in message news:GVSsb.13602 At least my glass is half full. |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
om... the only people "****ed off" are the cranky SOB's. Everyone else who has contributed to this thread has been a gentleman. Perhaps you and cramer could use a little "charm"? For a while I thought this thread would avoid the nasty comments that a handful of the Wreckers are wont to make. Thanks to all who contributed USEFUL, ON-TOPIC posts. How nice of you to thank me, Dave! I mean, you are thanking *me* too, aren't you? Or perhaps you didn't click on that link, which was indeedy chock-full of useful on-topic information? Or did you click on it, and dismiss it because it was accompanied by some less-than-praising text? Or did you click on it and your eyes glazed over? Or in the middle of your whining pouting retort, you skipped it all together? It really was an answer to your original question. So if you're *not* thanking me, what gives? I'm just trying to help here. Olguin, you have lowered yourself to Cramer's level. I didn't think anyone else was in his league. QED QED? You mean as in the Latin: Quod erat demonstrandum? This is usually appended to the text of a mathematical proof, meaning, "what has been shown." So let me see if I follow correctly - I call you on being essentially a lazy, shiftless, helpless, hopeless can-barely-wipe-his-ass cluetoken, and provide some evidence to back it up (e.g - a simple search yields the answer), and all you're able to recognize is that some "cranky SOB," is picking on you and so you file me in your BAD man folder, compare me to Cramer and call it proof? Sorry Dave, but that dog won't hold water. Look, I admit it's a guilty pleasure to read Scott putting more dents in your head. I think he's damn funny, clever and all that - he even appears to enjoy woodworking (and know a bit about it as well); his participation clearly extends beyond his penchant for noticing when your pants are down in the newsgroup and splaying the spotlight onnit. Trouble is, you seem to only be able to absorb that someone's being a big meanie, and therefore you miss the message... as you apparently missed mine. Again and again and again. Maybe I'm just using the wrong approach. What do you think, people? Could it be I'm being too harsh by slapping the back of Dave's head to get his attention and then attempting to provide some information? Could it be a kindler, gentler approach might work? Maybe I'm just jealous that he's getting all this shop-time, and so naturally he has questions. Could it be I really am just a cranky, impatient, arrogant, puffed-up, egotistical, selfish, pseudo-intellectual, flaming, overbearing *******? Could I have been wrong all along? Naaaaaah! (apologies to Steve Martin) O'Deen OBWW - a sharp block plane works for just about any kind of cleaning of pesky milling marks on a power-jointed edge. Use a light touch and a sharp iron. A smooth plane is preferable for use on a jointed face. To answer someone else's question on the need for such thin, fluffy shavings (like less than 0.001"), when it comes to very difficult woods to plane, like quilted maple or curly cherry and curly bubinga (my three nemises), ultra-thin shavings are a must, else you end up with very dissatisfying tear-out. Block planes (planes with their bevels up) are also easier for the planing/sharpening newbie, as they are less sensitive to a rounded bevel - the bane of the bench plane user. A rounded bevel is a problem for bench planes that are removing very thin shavings, as it reduces the clearance angle of the blade, causing the blade to cease cutting as the clearance angle goes to zero (from repeated honings/roundings). Ideally, one shouldn't round-over those bevels, but it does happen. Simple ways to avoid it are to hollow grind the bevel (some nerds call it a bezel) and to use a hard felt wheel as opposed to a muslin wheel for honing. A leather wheel works well also. |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
"Patrick Olguin" wrote in message ... | | QED? You mean as in the Latin: Quod erat demonstrandum? This is usually | appended to the text of a mathematical proof, meaning, "what has been | shown." Nitpick: "quod erat demonstrandum" better translates as "which was to have been shown" -- a subtle difference. If you want to prove that x = y, you write a proof that starts at first principles and then somehow gets to the expression "x = y". You label that last line to signify that you have successfully arrived at the place you had previously designed to go. |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
They still are.
"Wood Butcher" wrote in message news:LaTsb.142677$9E1.722008@attbi_s52... Back when the term was initiated all self moving vehicles, including the electrics and steamers, were called automobiles. |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
I'm sure you would be heartbroken if I gave you the snub! :)
dave wrote: On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:43:02 GMT, Bay Area Dave wrote: please tell the dougster that my alleged shortcomings do nothing, nada, nyet, to negate Cramer's disgusting off-topic personal attacks. how can he argue with me unless you are going to keep quoting him? At least my glass is half full. dave wrote: snip um doug? you waging a full scale argument with a half wit? :-} why hello BAD i was worried you may have plonked me too. i can sleep better now thank you. :-} skeez |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
No; more like an anagram made from 'live'.
dave Tom Watson wrote: On 13 Nov 2003 11:27:02 -0800, (Patrick Olguin) wrote: This is why you ****-off people like Scott (and the faceless rabble, too tired to play tard-ball with you anymore). BAD calls 'em "miscreants." I wonder if he meant its anagram, "nice smart." (o'course, to be fair, he may have meant the anagramatic version, "scat miner.") |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
is your neck red?
dave Wood Butcher wrote: Are your eyes brown? Art "Bay Area Dave" wrote in message news:GVSsb.13602 At least my glass is half full. |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
So do YOU consider yourself on a par with Cramer or not? You are gonna
be judged by the company you keep. I read your link, but since so many folks have brought their knowledge of planing to the table, I failed to learn anything new from your flowery post of yesteryear. That's NOT to be taken as a slight of your prodigious knowledge; merely an acknowledgment that the bearers of knowledge did indeed wrap their offerings more courteously, which allows me to concentrate on the message and not the writer. I don't like to slog through paragraphs of slime to reach the pearls of wisdom. In the future, should you care to distance yourself from your ill-bred friends, I'm sure we can both dispense with this time-wasting discourse. The wrong approach? You? Like a drunk driving the wrong way on I-5 at 90 mph with his lights out. getting all this shop-time, and so naturally he has questions. Could it be I really am just a cranky, impatient, arrogant, puffed-up, egotistical, selfish, pseudo-intellectual, flaming, overbearing *******? In a word...yes. But that's just one man's opinion. Don't let me ruin your day. dave |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
Paddy me boyo,
Me thinks that SWIATAABOC wouldn't have even said hello to you if you were, in your own words, "a cranky, impatient, arrogant, puffed-up, egotistical, selfish, pseudo-intellectual, flaming, overbearing *******". Besides ... your parent's marital status was out of your control. :o Could I have been wrong all along? Naaaaaah! Don't see the need for you to appologize ... you've given the wreck everything BUT heartburn. I'll say it - Thank You O'Deen - Long live the King of Bug Spit (and all that). ***** And since we're on the subject, isn't rocket science basically fuel, oxidizer, nozzle and a match? My WARMEST regards, Rick AKA The Sawdust Factory |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:42:41 -0800, Patrick Olguin wrote:
Maybe I'm just using the wrong approach. What do you think, people? Could it be I'm being too harsh by slapping the back of Dave's head to get his attention and then attempting to provide some information? Could it be a kindler, gentler approach might work? Maybe I'm just jealous that he's getting all this shop-time, and so naturally he has questions. Could it be I really am just a cranky, impatient, arrogant, puffed-up, egotistical, selfish, pseudo-intellectual, flaming, overbearing *******? Could I have been wrong all along? Naaaaaah! It seems a motion has been made for a vote. I second it and also vote "Naaaaaah". -Doug |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:44:07 -0500, Trent© wrote:
No...he's being his usual prick of a self again. Is this a slap at Charlie or a compliment to Doug? |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
So do YOU consider yourself on a par with Cramer or not? You are gonna
be judged by the company you keep. I read your link, but since so many folks have brought their knowledge of planing to the table, I failed to learn anything new from your flowery post of yesteryear. That's NOT to be taken as a slight of your prodigious knowledge; merely an acknowledgment that the bearers of knowledge did indeed wrap their offerings more courteously, which allows me to concentrate on the message and not the writer. I don't like to slog through paragraphs of slime to reach the pearls of wisdom. In the future, should you care to distance yourself from your ill-bred friends, I'm sure we can both dispense with this time-wasting discourse. The wrong approach? You? Like a drunk driving the wrong way on I-5 at 90 mph with his lights out. getting all this shop-time, and so naturally he has questions. Could it be I really am just a cranky, impatient, arrogant, puffed-up, egotistical, selfish, pseudo-intellectual, flaming, overbearing *******? In a word...yes. But that's just one man's opinion. Don't let me ruin your day. dave |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:24:04 -0500, Trent©
wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:58:07 -0500, brocpuffs wrote: On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 02:10:39 GMT, Bay Area Dave wrote: that's PRECISELY why I can't see how a plane can make anything truly FLAT. A jointer wouldn't if it was set up like a plane. So what are we missing? Or is the emperor buck naked again? g dave You cats have never used a jointer plane properly, obviously. Sure, any plane will hit the high spots first. It will continue to take down the high spots till they are at the same level as the lowest low spot, after which you have a clean, straight edge. Done it lots of times, not dreaming! If they didn't do this well, as someone said, the great joinery in pre-electricity days wouldn;t have been possible. They didn't have rasps and sandpaper back then? You can edge join planks using rasps and sandpaper, and come out with an invisible glue line? My hat is off to you. Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a "Curse thee, thou quadrant. No longer will I guide my earthly way by thee." Capt. Ahab |
Hand plane - can you REALLY joint a perfectly straight edge?
"Christopher" wrote in message ... "Bay Area Dave" wrote in message m... Chris, you understand my dilemma exactly. If I get a smoother (sorry, I had misspoken earlier when I referred to a block plane) as my first quality plane (Veritas $160) I was wondering if I could smooth a power jointed edge to perfection. The edge would already be flat, but the object of further work would be to remove machining marks, as you noted. Somebody understands me! :) dave My guess is that if you are very practiced with a handplane you could improve the edge slightly. I've been practicing a lot lately and though I'm getting better, I doubt I would actually improve the results provided by a power jointer. It would probably be a bit smoother, but I'm not sure I could maintain square without some kind of shooting board. I actually disagree with Charlie Self below where he says a jointer plane would be better than a smooth plane here. Being a newbie, I'll probably get eaten alive for doing so but that's OK. I think that taking a shaving of even thickness, down the entire length of the board, will maintain the same level of flatness produced by the jointer. It's introducing an unwanted bevel I would worry about rather than making the piece concave or convex. -Chris Bevel... That's because most people try and joint a board by mounting it in a vise and setting the plane on top. The way it was done when craftsmen didn't have tailed apprentices was to put the board on a shooting board and lay the plane on its side. Takes all the guesswork out. Of course, the tools have to be correctly set up. The plane's side has to be square to the sole. That's the way Graham Blackburn's master taught him, and they didn't use tailed apprentices in that shop. Mr. Blackburn teaches a joinery class several times a year. In the class, they do a rub joint. Joint two boards, with hand planes, spread a small amount of glue evenly across the edge of one of the boards. Place the other board on it, offset about 4-6 inches. Slide the second board until the ends are even, using feel to ensure that the faces of the boards are as close as level as possible (The human finger is capable of feeling less than .001 in.). Wait a few minutes, then set the boards aside to dry. Notice, no clamps. The next day, they break the joint. It never breaks on the glue line. No clamps, no biscuits, no dowels. Just a well planed joint and so little glue there is not even any squeeze out. Cheers, Eric |
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