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#1
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
I've tried to read everything I can find about finishing my new white
oak kitchen table purchased from an unfinished furniture store, and I'm currently thinking that after applying a light oil stain (and letting it dry for at least two days) I would like to apply multiple top coats of water-based poly as the final finish. I get the feeling from all that I've read that there is a greater chance of not getting that "thick plastic" look if I use the "wipe" method as opposed to the brush/foam/paint pad method. I would like to use water-based poly because of fewer VOCs (I have to do the finishing in the living space of my home and it's getting cold outside) and as it's just the wife and I, we shouldn't suffer from the lesser durability than what you would get from the oil-based polys. What I can't find, is any information on whether or not you CAN thin a water-based poly and apply via the wipe method. Lots of info on thinning oil-based poly, but nothing on water-based. I've been leaning towards using Zar "Aqua Zar" or General Finishes "EF PolyAcrilic". I've received an email from Zar technical support and they say "don't do it". I have yet to hear back from General Finishes. While I do like to listen to what the manufactures say about their products, I would very much like to receive advice and opinions from experienced netizens and the results of real-world experience. |
#2
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
Speaking just for myself, I can't stand the look of water-based poly. On high wear or
spill-prone pieces I use Waterlox, a tung-oil based varnish. I like the look and feel of it - very clear, not yellow or blue, nor thick and plastic either. Bob |
#3
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
Bob N wrote:
Speaking just for myself, I can't stand the look of water-based poly. On high wear or spill-prone pieces I use Waterlox, a tung-oil based varnish. I like the look and feel of it - very clear, not yellow or blue, nor thick and plastic either. Thanks for the reply! I'm definitely a "likes the finish inside the wood, not on top of the wood" kinda guy. But all the oil finishes I've read about require waxing as the final step and maintenance. Is that not the case with Waterlox? |
#5
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
maybe he doesn't want to spring the big bucks for a can of water based
only to find out by experimentation that it can't be applied to his liking when thinned and wiped. That stuff can be pretty pricey, Mr. T. dave T. wrote: Fri, Oct 24, 2003, 10:07am (Ladd Morse) says: snip I would like to apply multiple top coats of water-based poly snip and the results of real-world experience. I would say that's when you get a chunk or two of wood and try it, to see if it works like you want, or not. JOAT Make my shorts. Eat my day. Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT Web Page Update 23 Oct 2003. Some tunes I like. http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/ |
#6
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
Fri, Oct 24, 2003, 4:54pm (EDT+4) (Bay=A0Area=A0Dave)
says: maybe he doesn't want to spring the big bucks for a can of water based only to find out by experimentation that it can't be applied to his liking when thinned and wiped. That stuff can be pretty pricey, Mr. T. Who does want to spring for big bucks? I'm as broke as anyone here, but I'd get some, if it was me. It can be thinned, it can be wiped on. The question is, would it come out to his liking? If he doesn't want to pop for a can, maybe someone has a bit they'll give him. But, he'll never know, unless he tries it. And, you don't need to call me Mr. Sir will do fine. JOAT Make my shorts. Eat my day. Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT Web Page Update 23 Oct 2003. Some tunes I like. http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/ |
#7
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
Sir Joat (you didn't invite me to your Knighthood party), I see nothing
wrong with the OP asking a question here to see if it's worth his while to invest in a product he's unfamiliar with. Many of us do that on the Wreck, AAMOF. Let him ask; if you have no answer--let someone else give it a try. Your posts have been substandard, even for you, as of late. You haven't given any useful help on many of the threads I've looked at. Whassamatter? Are you bored? If you are, step away from your keyboard and go play in your shop. When you come back, try to think positive thoughts like "how can I best answer someone's question with some USEFUL (that's useFULL; not useLESS) info?" OR, how can I turn over a new leaf and HELP someone instead of injecting totally useless comments? Give that a try and see if you don't feel better about yourself in no time... dave T. wrote: snip And, you don't need to call me Mr. Sir will do fine. JOAT Make my shorts. Eat my day. Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT Web Page Update 23 Oct 2003. Some tunes I like. http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/ |
#8
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
ohhhhhhhhhhhh sheeeeeeeeeeeet......it's gonna hit the fan now......duck n'
run ! "Bay Area Dave" wrote in message m... Sir Joat (you didn't invite me to your Knighthood party), I see nothing snip Give that a try and see if you don't feel better about yourself in no time... dave |
#9
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:43:14 GMT, Bay Area Dave
wrote: Sir Joat (you didn't invite me to your Knighthood party), I see nothing wrong with the OP asking a question here to see if it's worth his while to invest in a product he's unfamiliar with. Dave, this stuff comes in pints for about $3. G I think JOAT's point is that it may be POSSIBLE to thin it, but the OP may like the results. Only the OP can make the decision to use it from there. So, even if WE say it can be done the OP should STILL try it on some scrap, to see if HE likes it. Does that make sense? Barry |
#10
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
Fri, Oct 24, 2003, 7:43pm (EDT+4) (Bay=A0Area=A0Dave)
puts out: big snip Give that a try and see if you don't feel better about yourself in no time... Read the next post. JOAT Make my shorts. Eat my day. Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT Web Page Update 23 Oct 2003. Some tunes I like. http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/ |
#11
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:18:52 -0400 (EDT),
(T.) wrote: I'm as broke as anyone here, Bet you're not 8-( -- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods |
#12
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
Sat, Oct 25, 2003, 3:14am (EDT+5)
(Andy=A0Dingley) says: I'm as broke as anyone here, Bet you're not =A0 8-( Oh Hell, I lose. Well known fact, second liar always wins. LMAO If not, there aren't many broker. But, on the other hand, you could call me rich, 'course that all depends on how you define rich. Pay my bills, get fed, got a home, a shop, a pickup, some wood, and even a few $ to spend on myself. All that's missing is money. That's close enough to rich for me. LOL Basically, life is good. JOAT Make my shorts. Eat my day. Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT Web Page Update 23 Oct 2003. Some tunes I like. http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofal...OMETUNESILIKE/ |
#13
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
Andy Dingley wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:18:52 -0400 (EDT), (T.) wrote: I'm as broke as anyone here, Bet you're not 8-( Let's have a contest. I have $40 USD in my pocket. This feels like a fortune. I haven't seen this much cash in a long time. -- Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621 http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/ |
#14
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
T. wrote:
I would say that's when you get a chunk or two of wood and try it, to see if it works like you want, or not. Standard (and always good) advice and I'ld love to do it, but I didn't build the table, I purchased it unfinished, so I don't have any matching wood to test. I suppose purchasing a plank from Lowes or Home Depot might possibly lead me in the correct direction though... |
#15
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
"Ladd Morse" wrote in message ... T. wrote: I would say that's when you get a chunk or two of wood and try it, to see if it works like you want, or not. Standard (and always good) advice and I'ld love to do it, but I didn't build the table, I purchased it unfinished, so I don't have any matching wood to test. I suppose purchasing a plank from Lowes or Home Depot might possibly lead me in the correct direction though... the underside? |
#16
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
Charlie Spitzer wrote:
the underside? Certainly where I plan on starting no matter what I do! :-) |
#17
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
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#18
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." wrote in message ... On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:49:49 -0400, (Ladd Morse) wrote: Standard (and always good) advice and I'ld love to do it, but I didn't build the table, I purchased it unfinished, so I don't have any matching wood to test. There's no wood on the underside? Barry mobius table? |
#19
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
Charlie Spitzer wrote:
mobius table? Dang!! My secret is out!! :-) |
#21
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
Typically "water based" finished are not to be thinned. Some can be brushed
on just fine as is. -- Rumpty Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Ladd Morse" wrote in message ... I've tried to read everything I can find about finishing my new white oak kitchen table purchased from an unfinished furniture store, and I'm currently thinking that after applying a light oil stain (and letting it dry for at least two days) I would like to apply multiple top coats of water-based poly as the final finish. I get the feeling from all that I've read that there is a greater chance of not getting that "thick plastic" look if I use the "wipe" method as opposed to the brush/foam/paint pad method. I would like to use water-based poly because of fewer VOCs (I have to do the finishing in the living space of my home and it's getting cold outside) and as it's just the wife and I, we shouldn't suffer from the lesser durability than what you would get from the oil-based polys. What I can't find, is any information on whether or not you CAN thin a water-based poly and apply via the wipe method. Lots of info on thinning oil-based poly, but nothing on water-based. I've been leaning towards using Zar "Aqua Zar" or General Finishes "EF PolyAcrilic". I've received an email from Zar technical support and they say "don't do it". I have yet to hear back from General Finishes. While I do like to listen to what the manufactures say about their products, I would very much like to receive advice and opinions from experienced netizens and the results of real-world experience. |
#22
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
What I can't find, is any information on whether or not you CAN thin a
water-based poly and apply via the wipe method. Lots of info on thinning oil-based poly, but nothing on water-based. Further exploration leads me to the Target Coatings "Oxford Hybrid Super-Clear 9000 Polyurethene" which specificially states that it can be diluted 20% for wipe-on applications. http://www.targetcoatings.com/produc...uperclear.html I note that this product (and many others) recommend that it be applied over a sealer, especially oak. If I am NOT going for a high-gloss guitar-body finish, but just a casual kitchen table, is a sealer still recommended? Still intrigued by the in-a-completely-different-direction Waterlox recommendation also ... |
#23
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
Ladd Morse wrote:
What I can't find, is any information on whether or not you CAN thin a water-based poly and apply via the wipe method. Lots of info on thinning oil-based poly, but nothing on water-based. Water-based poly is an emulsion in a mixture of water and organic solvents. There is a lot less organic solvent than solvent-based poly, but there is some and if you change the composition of the liquid by too much dilution you risk breaking the emulsion. In that case, the solids content separates from the solution - i.e. the stuff is ruined. I would avoid diluting unless the manufacturer says it is OK, and then don't dilute anymore than they tell you. I've used water-based poly a lot in the winter when I have to finish inside the house. (The rest of the year I finish in the garage with some ventilation). One thing to be aware of is that because of the water the first coat really raises the grain a lot and the surface will feel very rough. You will need to sand after the first coat almost to the point that all the poly on the surface is taken off. So think of the first coat as a sealer of sorts and let it dry very well before sanding. With large pore wood like oak you may have to do pretty heavy sanding after the first two coast. If it were me, I would use a good brush and finish the underside of the table with undiluted stuff and see if you like the results. I think the plasticy look attributed to poly is a myth. Any finish that you build that has high gloss can look plastic, not just poly. If you don't want a glossy look, use a satin formulation, or use a gloss formulation and sand with fine steel wool at the end. -- To email me use: sjusenet AT comcast DOT net |
#24
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
Thanks very much for the detailed (and on-topic) answer! :-)
Water-based poly is an emulsion in a mixture of water and organic solvents. There is a lot less organic solvent than solvent-based poly, but there is some and if you change the composition of the liquid by too much dilution you risk breaking the emulsion. In that case, the solids content separates from the solution - i.e. the stuff is ruined. I would avoid diluting unless the manufacturer says it is OK, and then don't dilute anymore than they tell you. I've used water-based poly a lot in the winter when I have to finish inside the house. (The rest of the year I finish in the garage with some ventilation). One thing to be aware of is that because of the water the first coat really raises the grain a lot and the surface will feel very rough. You will need to sand after the first coat almost to the point that all the poly on the surface is taken off. So think of the first coat as a sealer of sorts and let it dry very well before sanding. With large pore wood like oak you may have to do pretty heavy sanding after the first two coast. If it were me, I would use a good brush and finish the underside of the table with undiluted stuff and see if you like the results. I think the plasticy look attributed to poly is a myth. Any finish that you build that has high gloss can look plastic, not just poly. If you don't want a glossy look, use a satin formulation, or use a gloss formulation and sand with fine steel wool at the end. |
#26
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
Steve James wrote:
If it were me, I would use a good brush and finish the underside of the table with undiluted stuff and see if you like the results. I think the plasticy look attributed to poly is a myth. Any finish that you build that has high gloss can look plastic, not just poly. B a r r y B u r k e J r . replied: I agree for the most part, except for the myth. Any finish, badly applied, will look like crap. Many bad finishes seem to be Minwax polyurethanes applied 1/4" thick, because bad finishers are unaware of the better products and methods. So the plasticky look is real, but not simply due to the presence of polyurethane, just bad usage. Also, just as with stains, there ARE better brands than Minwax polyurethane. By the myth of poly and the plastic look what I (mainly) meant was that this is not something unique to polyurethane. So I agree with you. You can get a crappy result with a poor product or by improper application of a good one. For my own education, what brand of polyurethane finish do you prefer? Steve -- To email me use: sjusenet AT comcast DOT net |
#27
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Can water-based poly be thinned for wiping?
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 18:57:07 -0400, (Steve James)
wrote: Steve James wrote: For my own education, what brand of polyurethane finish do you prefer? I like Waterlox's urethane varnish (not the same as "original" Waterlox) , Maloof's blend, or even 50% thinned Minwax, depending on the project. I wipe all of them on. Barry |
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