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Frank Drackman September 29th 07 01:19 AM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
Does anyone print full size drawings of their plans? I have developed most
of my recent final drawings with CAD programs but don't have a large format
printer.

I was thinking on visiting the nearest Kinko's to see what they have to
offer for large printers.

Are there other places I should look?



todd September 29th 07 01:47 AM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
"Frank Drackman" wrote in message
. ..
Does anyone print full size drawings of their plans? I have developed
most of my recent final drawings with CAD programs but don't have a large
format printer.

I was thinking on visiting the nearest Kinko's to see what they have to
offer for large printers.

Are there other places I should look?


Kinkos wouldn't be a bad bet. Just up the street from my house is a place
that does a lot of blueprint services, among other things. They also print
drawings from a number of formats. They can even print on vellum or mylar
if that would be helpful. You might also try looking for a place like that.

todd



Gary E September 29th 07 01:47 AM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
Using an old dot matrix printer and fan-fold paper, I can make full size
patterns of portions of a CAD drawings. Suits my purposes

Gary

"Frank Drackman" wrote in message
. ..
Does anyone print full size drawings of their plans? I have developed
most of my recent final drawings with CAD programs but don't have a large
format printer.

I was thinking on visiting the nearest Kinko's to see what they have to
offer for large printers.

Are there other places I should look?




Robatoy September 29th 07 02:18 AM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
On Sep 28, 8:19 pm, "Frank Drackman" wrote:
Does anyone print full size drawings of their plans? I have developed most
of my recent final drawings with CAD programs but don't have a large format
printer.

I was thinking on visiting the nearest Kinko's to see what they have to
offer for large printers.

Are there other places I should look?


I recently bought a HP 9800. Had a buddy cut me a stack of 13 x 19
vellum paper (From 28 x 20).
That makes for a SuperB size print. Plenty big enough for shop use and
making notations.
I paid under $ 300.00 (Can$) for the printer. (It also does nice
posters.)

Anything, .dxf or .dwg I get from architects is all on CD or via e-
Mail and revisions are also handled that way.
The odd time I need a bigger drawing, most blue-print houses can
handle .dxf and .dwg.

How big do you need to go?

r


Cubby September 29th 07 02:44 AM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
I print out all the individual sheets and then tape them together. It
isn't perfect but works. As well, you can then take the taped up sheets
into a blueprint shop and they can run you a full size.
Just another option.
Cheers,
cc

"Frank Drackman" wrote in message
. ..
Does anyone print full size drawings of their plans? I have developed
most of my recent final drawings with CAD programs but don't have a large
format printer.

I was thinking on visiting the nearest Kinko's to see what they have to
offer for large printers.

Are there other places I should look?




Swingman September 29th 07 01:50 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote

My guess is he mean full scale. That way, you can use them as templates.
I once built a two story house from full scale plans. Worked out OK except
I didn't realize the paper was curled. The roof leaked because of the way
I made it curve to follow the plans. I probably should have joined the
two halves of the house with nails instead of the Scotch tape like the
plans had.


Being a stickler for detail like you are, where did you find blue tuba4's?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/08/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)



Edwin Pawlowski September 29th 07 03:38 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote

My guess is he mean full scale. That way, you can use them as templates.
I once built a two story house from full scale plans. Worked out OK
except I didn't realize the paper was curled. The roof leaked because of
the way I made it curve to follow the plans. I probably should have
joined the two halves of the house with nails instead of the Scotch tape
like the plans had.


Being a stickler for detail like you are, where did you find blue tuba4's?


Had them special cut from blue spruce, of course.



mac davis September 29th 07 04:41 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 22:43:11 -0400, "J. Clarke" wrote:

There's no real benefit to doing so however unless the drawing is so
complex that it becomes unreadable in smaller sizes. If you're
thinking of using the drawing as a pattern, don't unless you're
absolutely certain of the calibration of the printer.


This is probably a dumb question, but if they were full size plans, which I
assume would be used for cutting out the parts, would calibration matter?


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis September 29th 07 04:42 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 04:13:06 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:


"J T" wrote in message
...
Fri, Sep 28, 2007, 5:19pm (EDT-3)
(Frank Drackman) doth query:
Does anyone print full size drawings of their plans? snip

Who needs plans? My questions a What do you mean by
'full size drawings'?
And, do you mean 'your' plans, that you drew; or plans made by
someone else, that you bought?
If you already have plans, why would you feel the need to print
them?
Or, do you mean print them the actual size of the finished product?

My guess is he mean full scale. That way, you can use them as templates. I
once built a two story house from full scale plans. Worked out OK except I
didn't realize the paper was curled. The roof leaked because of the way I
made it curve to follow the plans. I probably should have joined the two
halves of the house with nails instead of the Scotch tape like the plans
had.

* drum roll*


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

no spam September 29th 07 04:53 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 

Does anyone print full size drawings of their plans? I have developed
most
of my recent final drawings with CAD programs but don't have a large
format printer.

I was thinking on visiting the nearest Kinko's to see what they have to
offer for large printers.

Are there other places I should look?


They yellow pages. Almost any print shop should be able to print it out.
Some times a little neighborhood shop is cheaper than a name store.



** Frank ** September 29th 07 05:23 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
This is probably a dumb question, but if they were full size plans, which
I
assume would be used for cutting out the parts, would calibration matter?


Yes, but all plotters should be calibrated anyway. I have couple of size E
plotters (36" wide paper by any reasonable length - maybe up to 20' long or
so) and I could tell you once the plotter is calibrated (one time
calibration for all future plots) its more accurate than my wood working
skills.

Anyway you should work off the dimensions on the blue lines (or black lines)
and not scale it off from the drawings. But for woodworking it doesn't
matter all that much assuming the drawing is to the right scale off the
plotter.



Robatoy September 29th 07 06:02 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
On Sep 29, 11:42 am, mac davis wrote:


* drum roll*

*cymbal crash* (obligatory)



Swingman September 29th 07 06:18 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
"mac davis" wrote

This is probably a dumb question, but if they were full size plans, which
I
assume would be used for cutting out the parts, would calibration matter?


Pretty amazing how accurate even a run-of-the-mill ink jet printer is for
doing 1":1" scale drawings from a CAD/drafting program.

I print 1:1 scale drawings of parts, like corbels, curved chair back rails,
and most any thing with a curve to it that will fit on legal size (8 1/2 x
14") paper, paste the printed copies on both the router pattern material and
the project stock with Elmer's Glue, then rough cut the shapes on the band
saw.

You can still see the HP Ink Jet printed scale drawing pasted to the chair
back router pattern in the following pictu

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/Mis...rCrestJig0.JPG

The dimensions are precise and the parts come out like they were cut with a
cookie cutter.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/08/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)







J. Clarke September 29th 07 06:51 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
mac davis wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 22:43:11 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

There's no real benefit to doing so however unless the drawing is
so
complex that it becomes unreadable in smaller sizes. If you're
thinking of using the drawing as a pattern, don't unless you're
absolutely certain of the calibration of the printer.


This is probably a dumb question, but if they were full size plans,
which I assume would be used for cutting out the parts, would
calibration matter?


Yes. Most printers don't have the same error horizontally that they do
vertically and the amount of error is not constant across the page, so
not only the dimensions but the proportions change.

The amount of error may or may not matter for a given project, but you
need to find out how much error there is before you can decide that.
It's not all that hard to figure out--just make a drawing of a grid of
half-inch squares, print it, then confirm that the lines are straight,
the corners are square, and the squares alone one side and along the
top or bottom are indeed all the same width within your allowable
error tolerance. If they are you're good to go.

If you're using Kinkos or the like though, you should do this each
time you print because you don't know whether they might have done
something that changed the calibration.

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)



J. Clarke September 29th 07 06:56 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
** Frank ** wrote:
This is probably a dumb question, but if they were full size plans,
which I
assume would be used for cutting out the parts, would calibration
matter?


Yes, but all plotters should be calibrated anyway. I have couple of
size E plotters (36" wide paper by any reasonable length - maybe up
to 20' long or so) and I could tell you once the plotter is
calibrated (one time calibration for all future plots) its more
accurate than my wood working skills.


Should be, but don't believe it unless you've tested it yourself or
have the word of someone whose expertise you trust. And a production
printer in a copy place I suspect that the utilization is high enough
for wear and repairs to be an issue.

Anyway you should work off the dimensions on the blue lines (or
black
lines) and not scale it off from the drawings. But for woodworking
it
doesn't matter all that much assuming the drawing is to the right
scale off the plotter.


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)



Max September 29th 07 07:20 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 

"Frank Drackman" wrote in message
. ..
Does anyone print full size drawings of their plans? I have developed
most of my recent final drawings with CAD programs but don't have a large
format printer.

I was thinking on visiting the nearest Kinko's to see what they have to
offer for large printers.

Are there other places I should look?


Blueprint places can usually do large sheet copying.

Max



Frank Drackman September 29th 07 08:23 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 

"J T" wrote in message
...
Fri, Sep 28, 2007, 5:19pm (EDT-3)
(Frank Drackman) doth query:
Does anyone print full size drawings of their plans? snip

Who needs plans? My questions a What do you mean by
'full size drawings'?
And, do you mean 'your' plans, that you drew; or plans made by
someone else, that you bought?
If you already have plans, why would you feel the need to print
them?
Or, do you mean print them the actual size of the finished product?

Not being the smartass many of you will feel I am, questions like
this puzzle me. I consider any plans I may draw out, full size, as is -
regardless of how large, or small, they are. Unless you're selling, or
planning on selling, plans - but you didn't say that.



I draw all of my own stuff. I start with a pencil and paper to flush out
the general shapes and sizes. If I think that I might make additional
pieces later I will usually redraw it using a 2D CAD system so that it can
be easily modified.

There are many different reasons to print on material larger than the
letter, or legal, sizes that fit into my printers. The reason for this job
might seem silly to most people, but the client asked me to. I guess that
they want to show friends/family that it is truly a custom piece and they
want something bigger that 8.5" x 11".




Dan Coby September 29th 07 08:46 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
"J. Clarke" wrote in message ...
mac davis wrote:

.... snip
certain of the calibration of the printer.

This is probably a dumb question, but if they were full size plans,
which I assume would be used for cutting out the parts, would
calibration matter?


Yes. Most printers don't have the same error horizontally that they do
vertically and the amount of error is not constant across the page, so
not only the dimensions but the proportions change.

The amount of error may or may not matter for a given project, but you
need to find out how much error there is before you can decide that.
It's not all that hard to figure out--just make a drawing of a grid of
half-inch squares, print it, then confirm that the lines are straight,
the corners are square, and the squares alone one side and along the
top or bottom are indeed all the same width within your allowable
error tolerance. If they are you're good to go.


Not surprisingly, paper like wood, expands and contracts with changes
in moisture content. Since paper is thinner than your typical board, these
changes can happen in minutes. I have seen errors in drawings over 3/16ths
of an inch across a 36 inch piece of paper. If you are concerned about
the calibration of the printer then you probably also need to be concerned
about the media that you are drawing upon.

I worked for 13 years for a company called CalComp that first made pen
plotters and then large format electrostatic and inkjet printers. I did
software development including the software for the positioning servos
and calibration handling for several of CalComp's products.

The pen plotters had the ability to be calibrated in both the x and y
axis. This was done as part of the final stage of manufacturing. The
specified accuracy and repeatability was 0.005 inch for any position
on an E size (or A0 size) piece of media. The limiting factors for
accuracy were primarily friction effects and the fact that paper is not
a perfectly stiff media.

The electrostatic and inkjets only had a calibration for the media travel
path. The other axis was fixed by the manufacture of the print head
on the electrostatics or a linear encoder on the ink jets. The accuracy
for the media travel path was also 0.005 inch over a 44 inch E size
piece of media. (I do not remember the accuracy specification for the
other axis. It has been over 9 years.)

As I said earlier, paper like wood, is subject to expansion and contraction
with changes in moisture content. CalComp always specified accuracy
with a mylar (instead of paper) media to avoid expansion issues.

Since paper is so much thinner than the typical board, the size can
change in only a few minutes when the paper's environment is changed.
For best accuracy paper needed to taken out of its package or off
of its roll and allowed to stabilized for 15 to 30 minutes before it is
used. This is NOT going to happen at your local Kinko's.

We had a drawing on one wall of our lab that was a 12 feet long of a
locomotive. This was drawn on a pen plotter that would do the image
in multiple sections. It would pull off 44 inches of paper off the roll and
then draw one section. It would then pull off another 44 inches and
draw the next section. This plotter had a user selectable time delay to
allow the media to stabilize before drawing the next section. Lines that
crossed section boundaries were a very sensitive indicator of alignment
and accuracy issues. The locomotive was drawn with no time delay
between sections. As a result, the paper was changing as the drawing
was being made. Lines at the section boundaries that were drawn
at the start of a section would align with their mates in the previous
section. Lines that were drawn later in a section had errors as large as
3/16ths of an inch.



J T September 29th 07 09:03 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
Sat, Sep 29, 2007, 12:23pm (EDT-3)
(Frank*Drackman) doth sayeth:
snip The reason for this job might seem silly to most people, but the
client asked me to. snip

Well, if you're making a living at it, that's a very valid reason
for doing it. Answers my questions.

Hmm, if any of you guys want to make LARGE enlargements, I recall
reading about a guy doing just that. Takes a B&W picture of whatever.
Lays out a square (20 or 30' or so) of photographic papers on a floor.
Then projects the negative on it. Develops the picture(s), puts them
together in one large picture. Believe it took him some tries before he
was able to get the pictures in focus, being as the projector was so far
from the paper. It's a bit more complicated than that, but that's the
basics.



JOAT
What is life without challenge and a constant stream of new
humiliations?
- Peter Egan


Jon September 29th 07 09:04 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
I use an HP 36" plotter. Acquired from a company I worked for that went
bankrupt, and had me get rid of millions of dollars of equipment by
throwing it in a dumpster. Don's ask who they were, but a very reputable
company.

I was able to save 2 items, a large format 24" color laser printer and the
36" plotter. Both came with enough supplies to last me 3 years!

I print full size plans only when model making as I can glue the drawing
onto the wood and cut to the lines, it works really well with cog wheels and
smaller parts.

Jon
"Frank Drackman" wrote in message
. ..
Does anyone print full size drawings of their plans? I have developed
most of my recent final drawings with CAD programs but don't have a large
format printer.

I was thinking on visiting the nearest Kinko's to see what they have to
offer for large printers.

Are there other places I should look?




J. Clarke September 29th 07 09:13 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
Dan Coby wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
mac davis wrote:

... snip
certain of the calibration of the printer.

This is probably a dumb question, but if they were full size
plans,
which I assume would be used for cutting out the parts, would
calibration matter?


Yes. Most printers don't have the same error horizontally that they
do vertically and the amount of error is not constant across the
page, so not only the dimensions but the proportions change.

The amount of error may or may not matter for a given project, but
you need to find out how much error there is before you can decide
that. It's not all that hard to figure out--just make a drawing of
a
grid of half-inch squares, print it, then confirm that the lines
are
straight, the corners are square, and the squares alone one side
and
along the top or bottom are indeed all the same width within your
allowable error tolerance. If they are you're good to go.


Not surprisingly, paper like wood, expands and contracts with
changes
in moisture content. Since paper is thinner than your typical board,
these
changes can happen in minutes. I have seen errors in drawings over
3/16ths
of an inch across a 36 inch piece of paper. If you are concerned
about
the calibration of the printer then you probably also need to be
concerned
about the media that you are drawing upon.


A very good point.

I worked for 13 years for a company called CalComp that first made
pen
plotters and then large format electrostatic and inkjet printers. I
did
software development including the software for the positioning
servos
and calibration handling for several of CalComp's products.

The pen plotters had the ability to be calibrated in both the x and
y
axis. This was done as part of the final stage of manufacturing. The
specified accuracy and repeatability was 0.005 inch for any position
on an E size (or A0 size) piece of media. The limiting factors for
accuracy were primarily friction effects and the fact that paper is
not
a perfectly stiff media.

The electrostatic and inkjets only had a calibration for the media
travel
path. The other axis was fixed by the manufacture of the print head
on the electrostatics or a linear encoder on the ink jets. The
accuracy
for the media travel path was also 0.005 inch over a 44 inch E size
piece of media. (I do not remember the accuracy specification for
the
other axis. It has been over 9 years.)

As I said earlier, paper like wood, is subject to expansion and
contraction
with changes in moisture content. CalComp always specified accuracy
with a mylar (instead of paper) media to avoid expansion issues.

Since paper is so much thinner than the typical board, the size can
change in only a few minutes when the paper's environment is
changed.
For best accuracy paper needed to taken out of its package or off
of its roll and allowed to stabilized for 15 to 30 minutes before it
is
used. This is NOT going to happen at your local Kinko's.

We had a drawing on one wall of our lab that was a 12 feet long of a
locomotive. This was drawn on a pen plotter that would do the image
in multiple sections. It would pull off 44 inches of paper off the
roll and
then draw one section. It would then pull off another 44 inches and
draw the next section. This plotter had a user selectable time delay
to
allow the media to stabilize before drawing the next section. Lines
that
crossed section boundaries were a very sensitive indicator of
alignment
and accuracy issues. The locomotive was drawn with no time delay
between sections. As a result, the paper was changing as the drawing
was being made. Lines at the section boundaries that were drawn
at the start of a section would align with their mates in the
previous
section. Lines that were drawn later in a section had errors as
large
as
3/16ths of an inch.


Kind of test that you can't really do with a raster plotter. I can
see where that would be useful. Now I find myself wondering if Kinkos
can print on film.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)



HeyBub September 29th 07 09:47 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
Frank Drackman wrote:
Does anyone print full size drawings of their plans? I have
developed most of my recent final drawings with CAD programs but
don't have a large format printer.

I was thinking on visiting the nearest Kinko's to see what they have
to offer for large printers.

Are there other places I should look?


Kinko's can do it. You take 'em a diskette, they print the sucker.



Vic Frost September 30th 07 12:10 AM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
One word------Kinkos !!
"Frank Drackman" wrote in message
. ..
Does anyone print full size drawings of their plans? I have developed
most of my recent final drawings with CAD programs but don't have a large
format printer.

I was thinking on visiting the nearest Kinko's to see what they have to
offer for large printers.

Are there other places I should look?




J T September 30th 07 01:23 AM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
Sat, Sep 29, 2007, 3:04pm (EDT-1) (Jon) doth
sayeth:
snip I print full size plans only when model making as I can glue the
drawing onto the wood and cut to the lines, it works really well with
cog wheels and smaller parts.

Been awhile since I've done it, so almost forgot. At times I make
things with full size patterns glued on to the wood. The way I do it is
print the pattern in sections, usually 3 to 5 sheets, depending on the
project, on a standard Xero× machine. Trim them down, carefully align
them, glue down. Some are going on 4 foot long. For what I do, works
very well indeed - and have to travel no further than the nearest copy
machine. I'd tell you all the fine details, but I don't want to.



JOAT
What is life without challenge and a constant stream of new
humiliations?
- Peter Egan


John Siegel September 30th 07 01:51 AM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 


J T wrote:
Sat, Sep 29, 2007, 3:04pm (EDT-1) (Jon) doth
sayeth:
snip I print full size plans only when model making as I can glue the
drawing onto the wood and cut to the lines, it works really well with
cog wheels and smaller parts.

Been awhile since I've done it, so almost forgot. At times I make
things with full size patterns glued on to the wood. The way I do it is
print the pattern in sections, usually 3 to 5 sheets, depending on the
project, on a standard Xero× machine. Trim them down, carefully align
them, glue down. Some are going on 4 foot long. For what I do, works
very well indeed - and have to travel no further than the nearest copy
machine. I'd tell you all the fine details, but I don't want to.



JOAT
What is life without challenge and a constant stream of new
humiliations?
- Peter Egan

The simple CAD program I have had around for years (AutoSketch) will
print a large drawing tiled across as many standard sheets of paper you
want. It will print registration marks to make the alignment easy to
do. I have used this method occasionally to make patterns for the
bandsaw. Usually I find a 1 to 1 print to be accurate enough for most
of my uses. However the scale is totally adjustable in both x and y so
it would be simplt to make a test print, measure and correct scale.
John



mac davis September 30th 07 03:38 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 10:02:41 -0700, Robatoy wrote:

On Sep 29, 11:42 am, mac davis wrote:


* drum roll*

*cymbal crash* (obligatory)

Damn... you're mind reading again!
As I was hitting "send", I thought that I SHOULD have included either a cymbal
or rim shot.. lol


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

RicodJour September 30th 07 04:25 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
On Sep 28, 8:19 pm, "Frank Drackman" wrote:
Does anyone print full size drawings of their plans? I have developed most
of my recent final drawings with CAD programs but don't have a large format
printer.

I was thinking on visiting the nearest Kinko's to see what they have to
offer for large printers.

Are there other places I should look?


Kinko's is fine. They have a printer plug in that converts your file
to Kinko's version of a PDF and sends your file to whatever Kinko's
you want for printing. If you don't print all that much it's a good
way to go.

R


Ferd Farkel September 30th 07 07:17 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
On Sep 28, 8:19 pm, "Frank Drackman" wrote:
Does anyone print full size drawings of their plans? I have developed most
of my recent final drawings with CAD programs but don't have a large format
printer.

I was thinking on visiting the nearest Kinko's to see what they have to
offer for large printers.

Are there other places I should look?


Local colleges with architecture departments probably still use
pen plotters capable of D sized sheets or larger.

That said, I stopped using AutoCAD years ago. Butcher paper
and #2 pencil inspire creativity better and will never go
obsolete.


Ferd Farkel September 30th 07 07:21 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
On Sep 29, 1:18 pm, "Swingman" wrote:
"mac davis" wrote

This is probably a dumb question, but if they were full size plans, which
I
assume would be used for cutting out the parts, would calibration matter?


Pretty amazing how accurate even a run-of-the-mill ink jet printer is for
doing 1":1" scale drawings from a CAD/drafting program.

I print 1:1 scale drawings of parts, like corbels, curved chair back rails,
and most any thing with a curve to it that will fit on legal size (8 1/2 x
14") paper, paste the printed copies on both the router pattern material and
the project stock with Elmer's Glue, then rough cut the shapes on the band
saw.


Wet paper stretches. Try solvent-based spray glue. A light, dusting
coat will hold fine.

You can still see the HP Ink Jet printed scale drawing pasted to the chair
back router pattern in the following pictu

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/Mis...rCrestJig0.JPG

The dimensions are precise and the parts come out like they were cut with a
cookie cutter.

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/08/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)




Swingman September 30th 07 08:04 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
"Ferd Farkel" wrote

Wet paper stretches. Try solvent-based spray glue. A light, dusting
coat will hold fine.


Actually, that's what the Elmer's "glue" that I use is ... "Elmer's Spray
Adhesive".

Thanks for pointing that out.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/8/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)




J T September 30th 07 08:32 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
Sun, Sep 30, 2007, 12:51am (EDT+4)
(John*Siegel) doth sayeth:
The simple CAD program I have had around for years (AutoSketch) will
print a large drawing tiled across as many standard sheets of paper you
want. It will print registration marks to make the alignment easy to do.
I have used this method occasionally to make patterns for the bandsaw.
Usually I find a 1 to 1 print to be accurate enough for most of my uses.
However the scale is totally adjustable in both x and y so it would be
simplt to make a test print, measure and correct scale. John

I don't have a CAD program, I don't need one for income, so just
another expensive toy I don't need. Instead I use a Xerox to "scale" my
pattern up or down. I take a ruler, and have an idea of what % up or
down to go. Start there, measure, go up or down as needed, remeasure.
Usually right on within about 4 copies, so make all copies I want. AND
write down the setting on the master, so I don't have to do it again
next time. Inexpensive, works.



JOAT
"I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth."
"Really? Why not?"
"I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."


J T September 30th 07 08:41 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
Sun, Sep 30, 2007, 11:17am (EDT-3) (Ferd*Farkel)
doth sayeth:
snip Butcher paper and #2 pencil inspire creativity better and will
never go obsolete.

Totally agree. Except I seldom use butcher paper. And I use the
inexpensive plastic Pentel type mechanical pencils - about 10-12 for
just a buck or two. Paper and pencil do seem to make the mind more
creative somehow.



JOAT
"I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth."
"Really? Why not?"
"I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."


J T September 30th 07 08:53 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
Sun, Sep 30, 2007, 11:21am (EDT-3) (Ferd*Farkel)
doth sayeth:
Wet paper stretches. Try solvent-based spray glue. A light, dusting coat
will hold fine.

Not a problem with what i do. I use Titebond II thinned half and
half. Position the pattern on the wood, lift one edge, brush on the
thinned glue, use the same brush to brush the paper smooth on the glue,
lift the unglued half, repeat. Then brush on some more thinned glue
over the top, taking care to brush out any air bubbles. Let it dry
overnight, then cut it out when ready. Of course, if you don't want the
paper to stay on the wood, this would probably be a major PITA to get it
off, unless you planed it off, or were willing to spend the time
sanding. There are only one or two type of projects I do this with (no,
no pukey ducks, at least not yet), including labels. You can make some
nifty, and intricate, hand-colored labels, IF you color them before you
glue, it's not as easy after..



JOAT
"I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth."
"Really? Why not?"
"I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."


J. Clarke September 30th 07 10:20 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
J T wrote:
Sun, Sep 30, 2007, 11:17am (EDT-3) (Ferd Farkel)
doth sayeth:
snip Butcher paper and #2 pencil inspire creativity better and
will
never go obsolete.

Totally agree. Except I seldom use butcher paper. And I use
the
inexpensive plastic Pentel type mechanical pencils - about 10-12 for
just a buck or two. Paper and pencil do seem to make the mind more
creative somehow.


Yeah, the mechanics of the software get in the way unless you've been
using it so long that it's transparent to you.

Now if you want to see something really cool try Corel Painter with
Wacom Cintiq. But you can buy a lot of paper and pencils for the
price of that setup.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)



Ferd Farkel September 30th 07 10:57 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
On Sep 30, 3:53 pm, (J T) wrote:
Sun, Sep 30, 2007, 11:21am (EDT-3) (Ferd Farkel)
doth sayeth:
Wet paper stretches. Try solvent-based spray glue. A light, dusting coat
will hold fine.

Not a problem with what i do. I use Titebond II thinned half and
half. Position the pattern on the wood, lift one edge, brush on the
thinned glue, use the same brush to brush the paper smooth on the glue,
lift the unglued half, repeat. Then brush on some more thinned glue
over the top, taking care to brush out any air bubbles. Let it dry
overnight, then cut it out when ready. Of course, if you don't want the
paper to stay on the wood, this would probably be a major PITA to get it
off, unless you planed it off, or were willing to spend the time
sanding. There are only one or two type of projects I do this with (no,
no pukey ducks, at least not yet), including labels. You can make some
nifty, and intricate, hand-colored labels, IF you color them before you
glue, it's not as easy after..


Some luthiers use Knox gelatin to glue labels inside their
guitars.



Ferd Farkel September 30th 07 11:02 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
On Sep 30, 3:41 pm, (J T) wrote:
Sun, Sep 30, 2007, 11:17am (EDT-3) (Ferd Farkel)
doth sayeth:
snip Butcher paper and #2 pencil inspire creativity better and will
never go obsolete.

Totally agree. Except I seldom use butcher paper. And I use the
inexpensive plastic Pentel type mechanical pencils - about 10-12 for
just a buck or two. Paper and pencil do seem to make the mind more
creative somehow.


Easier to convey a sense of space and weight with a pencil than
a monitor. CAD is unbeatable for precision, but precision is
unnecessary (and a drag) for design work.


JOAT
"I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth."
"Really? Why not?"
"I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."




Dave[_8_] October 1st 07 12:39 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 

I was thinking on visiting the nearest Kinko's to see what they have to
offer for large printers.

Are there other places I should look?


Kinko's, Office Depot, some Staples are all places you can go but you
will be paying almost twice as much as a blueprinter that architects,
engineers & contractors go to. I am not saying to get blueprints since
nobody in the construction industry uses them anymore, except maybe an
old architect. You can also save your drawing in .pdf and .plt formats
as well as .dxf and .dwg.

As for using a printer to "scale" your drawing, not a good idea. most
all printers will not scale it accurately. Just try it and measure the
output yourself. At least Autocad can scale 1:1, 1:2 or any other
scale whether it is architectural or engineering. I am sure you know
this but when we have to scale any engineering drawings we do it X12.
But when the engineer gets them back they can't seem to figure out how
to turn them back (1/12)

Pen Plotters: Ha!! If you do have access to one of these dinosaurs
keep in mind it could take and hour or more to plot out your drawing,
depending on how many layers you have versus the new plotters they
have now, which any blueprinter should have which may take 2 minutes
to plot.

As previously mentioned, check out the yellow pages, call the
blueprinter, find out if you can email your drawing to them and it
will be printed out before you arrive or you can put it on a disc in
any of the formats mentioned above and wait maybe 5 minutes.

The only time I knew of someone going to Kinkos for a copy (8.5x11 or
drawing size) is because it is late and the blueprinter has already
closed for the night and they absolutely positively have to get their
copies tonight.

Hope this helps.

Dave FL



J T October 1st 07 09:29 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
Mon, Oct 1, 2007, 4:39am (EDT-3) (Dave) doth sayeth:
snip As for using a printer to "scale" your drawing, not a good idea.
most all printers will not scale it accurately. snip

That just struck my eye. I've got a lot of books on building
things, steam engines, internal combustion engines, boats, etc., with
plans in them. These are books from around 1900 to the present. One of
the most recent acquisitions, Model Marine Steam, has plans for a
two-cylinder, double-acting, oscillating steam engine, meant to run in a
model boat. The plans take up a whole two pages. LOL Kinda funny how
something you'd usually think of as quite complicated would only have a
two page plan, and some wood projects take up a whole book to tell you
how to make them. But, I digress. NONE of the plans in these books are
to scale (how could they be?, the largest books are about 8" X 10 1/2")
and the later books anyway, often clearly state on the plan pages, NOT
TO SCALE.



JOAT
"I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth."
"Really? Why not?"
"I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."


Swingman October 1st 07 11:33 PM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
"Dave" wrote in message

First off ... excellent, nice to know info on the other methods, BTW.

Thanks!

As for using a printer to "scale" your drawing, not a good idea.
most all printers will not scale it accurately.


That is surely true ... but, for most old country boys there's usually more
than one way to skin a particular cat. :)

So, just in case someone hasn't figured it out:

I've used a CAD program (AutoSketch and its predecessor), along with a
series of cheap ink jet printers down through the years, to print, to scale,
small parts (less than 14" or so) for use as templates, with accurate
results.

As an example, below is a photo of the legal size printout (on a rather
cheap HP 5510 printer) of the curved chair rail template that I used to make
a batch of 7 identical chairs, with a ruler laying on top as "the judge".

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/12.5template.JPG

(It's a cheap digital camera, so if you zoom in, be careful that the
distortion/parallax of the camera lens on the "0" ruler edge and "12.5"
marks doesn't fool you ... take a look at the 6 1/4" mark on the ruler
instead, to get a better idea of the accuracy)

At least Autocad can scale 1:1, 1:2 or any other scale
whether it is architectural or engineering.


Bingo! ... On one printer I no longer use, I had to use a scale of 1" :
..995" in the CAD program, arrived at by trial and error, to get a "scale"
drawing to print out accurately on legal size paper. (I should have
mentioned that fact in the original post).

On the HP5510 I now use as a shop printer, a 1":1" scale has worked fine ...
thus far.

IOW, if you're determined and have no other tools at hand, you can get
excellent results ... AAMOF, I don't think I can cut to the approximately
1/128" error that showed on that particular ruler in the photo, in any
event.

On my "project tape measure", you could not see/measure any error on the
parts cut.

But you're right, you can't just take it for granted, you must measure to
make sure it suits your purpose.

A caveat: I always use legal size paper when doing this, and if you change
paper size I suspect you better double check/adjust the scale again.

I mention the above, because when the need arises to cut out identical small
parts as accurately as possible, this is a good step/method to know, at
least its worked for me.

Now, not only do we need to use the same tape measure throughout a project,
we need to calibrate it, our CAD programs, AND our printers. :)

as always YMMV ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)



Robert Bonomi October 2nd 07 08:13 AM

Printing Full Size Drawings
 
In article ,
todd wrote:
"Frank Drackman" wrote in message
...
Does anyone print full size drawings of their plans? I have developed
most of my recent final drawings with CAD programs but don't have a large
format printer.

I was thinking on visiting the nearest Kinko's to see what they have to
offer for large printers.

Are there other places I should look?


Kinkos wouldn't be a bad bet. Just up the street from my house is a place
that does a lot of blueprint services, among other things. They also print
drawings from a number of formats. They can even print on vellum or mylar
if that would be helpful. You might also try looking for a place like that.


the generic name for such shops, and the yellow pages directory heading,
is "reprographics shops".

Note: the _easy_ way to get big output is to get a PostScript printer, output
full-size postscript from the CAD, package and send that througha 'posterizer'
routine that will tile as many 8-1/2 x 11 sheets as needed to make the full
drawing.



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