I have been 'watching' Norm build unbelievable stuff for the last 3 years or
so. And, as mentioned in one of my previous posts, I always seem to wait on
the good woodworking projects until I get 'just that one more power tool' so
I can be like Norm. Heck... I can build anything once I get 'that'.

Finally... tonight I realized the error of my ways. And I should know
better. I do a lot of amateur astronomy... so I know the average backyard
joe isn't gonna look through his $700 telescope and see an image like you
see from Hubble in the magazines (Cost in the Billions)... but I fell victim
to seeing Norm pull out a $800 tool for this or that and felt I had to have
one, otherwise what was the point in trying to build it.

After enough web research... I'm amazed to see that folks have built quality
woodworks since looooong before power tools came around... whowouldathunkit?

This weekend, I'm going to buy myself a good dovetail saw and a decent
mortising chisel or two. And Im gonna learn to do good woodworks the hard
way/right way/old way/insert your way here.

So, since I'm going 'primitive' in the interest of 'going' at all, anyone
want to share anything else thats a must have?

FYI - I have a cheapo table saw, circular saw, jig saw, router with homemade
router table ( no fence except for a straight board and two clamps), roto
tool, drill, and a 10" compound miter saw.

Thanks,
Mike W

May the Force be with you....

Layne

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 01:32:07 GMT, "Mike W."
wrote:

I have been 'watching' Norm build unbelievable stuff for the last 3 years or
so. And, as mentioned in one of my previous posts, I always seem to wait on
the good woodworking projects until I get 'just that one more power tool' so
I can be like Norm. Heck... I can build anything once I get 'that'.

Finally... tonight I realized the error of my ways. And I should know
better. I do a lot of amateur astronomy... so I know the average backyard
joe isn't gonna look through his $700 telescope and see an image like you
see from Hubble in the magazines (Cost in the Billions)... but I fell victim
to seeing Norm pull out a $800 tool for this or that and felt I had to have
one, otherwise what was the point in trying to build it.

After enough web research... I'm amazed to see that folks have built quality
woodworks since looooong before power tools came around... whowouldathunkit?

This weekend, I'm going to buy myself a good dovetail saw and a decent
mortising chisel or two. And Im gonna learn to do good woodworks the hard
way/right way/old way/insert your way here.

So, since I'm going 'primitive' in the interest of 'going' at all, anyone
want to share anything else thats a must have?

FYI - I have a cheapo table saw, circular saw, jig saw, router with homemade
router table ( no fence except for a straight board and two clamps), roto
tool, drill, and a 10" compound miter saw.

Thanks,
Mike W

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 01:32:07 GMT, "Mike W."
Crawled out of the shop and said. . .:

snip

This weekend, I'm going to buy myself a good dovetail saw and a decent
mortising chisel or two. And Im gonna learn to do good woodworks the hard
way/right way/old way/insert your way here.

So, since I'm going 'primitive' in the interest of 'going' at all, anyone
want to share anything else thats a must have?


its a slippery slope them tail-less tools. . .

T

Snip
FYI - I have a cheapo table saw, circular saw, jig saw, router with
homemade
router table ( no fence except for a straight board and two clamps), roto
tool, drill, and a 10" compound miter saw.

Thanks,
Mike W


Sounds like my workshop. Tool priority really depends upon what you want to
build. Norm is a self confessed power tool junkie. I know the feeling as I
am like that but more on the metalwork side. If you choose your project well
you should have a good result.
Additions I would suggest considering:
Power screwdriver.
Decent plane, possibly power plane for rough wood.
Belt sander for rough wood.
Finishing sander.
Finally, as Norm says, "you can never have too many clamps"

Good luck
John

Believe it or not, there were some pretty decent books written before there
were word processors, even before there were typewriters. On the other
hand, there have also been some darn good works cranked out on those
newfangled contraptions. As always, the craftsman is more important than
the tool.

Lee

--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

Get two of these - one for fine, one for coarse.
http://www.ovisonline.com/Woodworkin...r/sandya20.htm

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 01:32:07 GMT, "Mike W."
wrote:

I have been 'watching' Norm build unbelievable stuff for the last 3 years or
so. And, as mentioned in one of my previous posts, I always seem to wait on
the good woodworking projects until I get 'just that one more power tool' so
I can be like Norm. Heck... I can build anything once I get 'that'.

Finally... tonight I realized the error of my ways. And I should know
better. I do a lot of amateur astronomy... so I know the average backyard
joe isn't gonna look through his $700 telescope and see an image like you
see from Hubble in the magazines (Cost in the Billions)... but I fell victim
to seeing Norm pull out a $800 tool for this or that and felt I had to have
one, otherwise what was the point in trying to build it.

After enough web research... I'm amazed to see that folks have built quality
woodworks since looooong before power tools came around... whowouldathunkit?

This weekend, I'm going to buy myself a good dovetail saw and a decent
mortising chisel or two. And Im gonna learn to do good woodworks the hard
way/right way/old way/insert your way here.

So, since I'm going 'primitive' in the interest of 'going' at all, anyone
want to share anything else thats a must have?

FYI - I have a cheapo table saw, circular saw, jig saw, router with homemade
router table ( no fence except for a straight board and two clamps), roto
tool, drill, and a 10" compound miter saw.

Thanks,
Mike W

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 09:23:15 +0100, Rob Bowman
Crawled out of the shop and
said. . .:

Get two of these - one for fine, one for coarse.
http://www.ovisonline.com/Woodworkin...r/sandya20.htm
snip

hell,,,why not three...i mean, you gotta have med grit

*G*

T

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 03:37:47 -0500, Traves W. Coppock
newsgroups-AT-farmvalleywoodworks-DOT-com wrote:

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 09:23:15 +0100, Rob Bowman
Crawled out of the shop and
said. . .:

Get two of these - one for fine, one for coarse.
http://www.ovisonline.com/Woodworkin...r/sandya20.htm
snip

hell,,,why not three...i mean, you gotta have med grit

I just love it when Norm says: "Gee, my widebelt sander sure does a
great job of finishing these big glue-up panels".
No sh1t, Norm!

You need a bench with a good vise. You probably need at least a block
plane. You probably need some clamps for glueing. Have fun, and don't be
too critical of first efforts. I favor a little completion, rather than an
endless project...

Brian


"Traves W. Coppock" newsgroups-AT-farmvalleywoodworks-DOT-com wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 01:32:07 GMT, "Mike W."
Crawled out of the shop and said. . .:

snip

This weekend, I'm going to buy myself a good dovetail saw and a decent
mortising chisel or two. And Im gonna learn to do good woodworks the
hard
way/right way/old way/insert your way here.

So, since I'm going 'primitive' in the interest of 'going' at all, anyone
want to share anything else thats a must have?


its a slippery slope them tail-less tools. . .

T

On 02 Oct 2003, Mike W. spake unto rec.woodworking:


This weekend, I'm going to buy myself a good dovetail saw and a decent
mortising chisel or two. And Im gonna learn to do good woodworks the
hard way/right way/old way/insert your way here.

So, since I'm going 'primitive' in the interest of 'going' at all,
anyone want to share anything else thats a must have?

FYI - I have a cheapo table saw, circular saw, jig saw, router with
homemade router table ( no fence except for a straight board and two
clamps), roto tool, drill, and a 10" compound miter saw.

I've got a 30+ year old Sears table saw, the same router table as
you, and a motley collection of hand tools, and with patience and study,
I've managed to make some decent furniture. Get a 1/4" or 5/16" mortising
chisel and a mallet, for starters. You'll need regular chisels, too, I'd
suggest the Marples blue handle jobs for starters. Plan on spending a day
learning how to sharpen them - Scary Sharp(tm) is fast and easy.

Turn off the TV and go to the LEEbrary(tmPO) and read up on how to
make joints the old-fashioned way - forget most everything you've seen Norm
do, and learn how to do it by hand. Satisfaction guaranteed.

Scott

Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking books 1&2 bound together provides
descriptions of steps to make many joints both power and hand. Great
tome for about $30.00 USD.

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:40:08 GMT, Scott Cramer
wrote:

Turn off the TV and go to the LEEbrary(tmPO) and read up on how to
make joints the old-fashioned way - forget most everything you've seen Norm
do, and learn how to do it by hand.

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 01:32:07 GMT, "Mike W."
wrote:

This weekend, I'm going to buy myself a good dovetail saw and a decent
mortising chisel or two. And Im gonna learn to do good woodworks the hard
way/right way/old way/insert your way here.

So, since I'm going 'primitive' in the interest of 'going' at all, anyone
want to share anything else thats a must have?

FYI - I have a cheapo table saw, circular saw, jig saw, router with homemade
router table ( no fence except for a straight board and two clamps), roto
tool, drill, and a 10" compound miter saw.

I think others may be able to give you better advice on what hand
tools are necessary, but I would like to throw in my personal thought
that, unless you have truly abundant free time, a planer and jointer
are exceptionally useful power tools. While it is certainly possible
to do thicknessing and smoothing of rough lumber by hand it takes a
lot of time and considerable practice. I've been forced to limit what
I do because I just don't have the time to true up rough lumber by
hand and don't have the power tools to do it faster. I either work
with s4s or have a friend who runs stuff through his planer and
jointer. Otherwise, I think a lot of joinery is more easily done by
hand than by machine, especially if you don't have the right jig and
only need to make a few joints.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

"Mike W." wrote in message
...
|
| Heck... I can build anything once I get 'that'.

As an engineer by profession I can't stress the need to use the right tools
for the right job and not try to "make do" with substandard or inappropriate
equipment.

[Pause for laughter]

Now I leave my work at the office, so when I go home it means I have the
same hobbyist's shop setup as lots of people -- always missing one crucial
tool, never spending enough to get the quality that matches my appetite,
using contraptions made of spoons and rubber bands instead of the
appropriate clamp on sale at Home Despot.

Like most people who do this for fun and not for a living, I've got a few
tools crowded into a corner of the basement, and that's where I try to
duplicate the really cool stuff I see at art shows and furniture showrooms.
I usually fail. When I need inspiration I tour The Mill at Warner Brothers
or some other such place.

I've come to the conclusion that I'll never be able to build things as
nicely as Norm Abrams, cook as well as Emeril, paint as well as Bob Ross,
nor mix mulled cider in my toilet bowl like Martha Stewart. But other than
these grave shortcomings, I feel good about what I do. Imagination, the
will to experiment, and attention to quality and detail will get you so much
farther than a $12,000 combination table saw, band saw, and espresso
machine. Yes, having quality tools and materials is important. But not
having them is not the detriment that it's made out as by the tool
companies.

Hmmm... a bench was one of the things I keep waiting on building until I got
some more good tools. I guess my 2 sawhorses and 3'x6' piece of MDF won't
work anymore huh?



Mike

"Brian" wrote in message
...
You need a bench with a good vise. You probably need at least a block
plane. You probably need some clamps for glueing. Have fun, and don't be
too critical of first efforts. I favor a little completion, rather than
an
endless project...

Brian


"Traves W. Coppock" newsgroups-AT-farmvalleywoodworks-DOT-com wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 01:32:07 GMT, "Mike W."
Crawled out of the shop and said. . .:

snip

This weekend, I'm going to buy myself a good dovetail saw and a decent
mortising chisel or two. And Im gonna learn to do good woodworks the
hard
way/right way/old way/insert your way here.

So, since I'm going 'primitive' in the interest of 'going' at all,
anyone
want to share anything else thats a must have?


its a slippery slope them tail-less tools. . .

T

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 21:48:34 GMT, "Mike W."
wrote:

Hmmm... a bench was one of the things I keep waiting on building until I got
some more good tools.

I finally broke down and BOUGHT a decent woodworking bench. Woodcraft
made me a sweet deal on a mid-line floor model Sjoberg. I built some
MDF (for weight!) boxes for underneath and loaded them with the
heaviest stuff in the shop.

Is my "ultimate" bench? No, but I wish I bought it a long time ago.
The thing has already proven to be worth it's weight in gold. Simply
having some sort of shoulder vise and dogs has really been helpful.
I've bought some user-condition planes off of eBay and stepped onto
the top of the slippery slope.

Someday, I'll build that 10 foot long Shaker bench, with dovetailed
drawers, etc... For now, this thing is already improving my work.

Barry

There is no try, only DO or NOT DO.

Seriously, buy the dovetail saw (or better, a dozuki with rip and
crosscut sides, which lets you do tenons as well), and a couple of
chisles. Then get some wood and have at it.

I started practicing dovetails on left over 2x4 from the construction
next dose (single tails in the end). Not pretty, but helped me
understand the angles and fit.

Nice looking chests can be made from pine selected from the HD or
Lowes (if you choose right) with hand cut dovetails. Then buy some
nice wood.

I went to seminar at a wood working show by jeff jewit on hand applied
finishes, which gets you nice looking finishes with a rag, oil and
shellac. Haven't sprayed on a finish yet.

Sure, my first few "projects" looked like crap. I have fun making
them, didn't like how they looked afterward, and learned what mistakes
I had made (mostly here on the list).

I'm still a hobby WW, with "stuff in the garage" but its fun.

tim

I dug the 'Yoda' reference!

Mike


"tim collins" wrote in message
om...
There is no try, only DO or NOT DO.

Seriously, buy the dovetail saw (or better, a dozuki with rip and
crosscut sides, which lets you do tenons as well), and a couple of
chisles. Then get some wood and have at it.

I started practicing dovetails on left over 2x4 from the construction
next dose (single tails in the end). Not pretty, but helped me
understand the angles and fit.

Nice looking chests can be made from pine selected from the HD or
Lowes (if you choose right) with hand cut dovetails. Then buy some
nice wood.

I went to seminar at a wood working show by jeff jewit on hand applied
finishes, which gets you nice looking finishes with a rag, oil and
shellac. Haven't sprayed on a finish yet.

Sure, my first few "projects" looked like crap. I have fun making
them, didn't like how they looked afterward, and learned what mistakes
I had made (mostly here on the list).

I'm still a hobby WW, with "stuff in the garage" but its fun.

tim

Jay Windley wrote:

nicely as Norm Abrams, cook as well as Emeril, paint as well as Bob Ross,

Don't even get me started about that one. I really hate that guy sometimes.
"Let's do a tree." BLAM! "And another little tree." BLAM! "These are
such happy, happy little trees." BLAM, BLAM, BLAM!

Thirteen second later, he has a freaking masterpiece, and just throws it on
the pile with the other dozen he painted in the last 30 minutes.

Me, I've decided I'm really good at painting cloudless skies. I have a lot
of canvases around here full of cloudless skies and some brown stuff at the
bottom that was maybe going to be dirt.

nor mix mulled cider in my toilet bowl like Martha Stewart. But other
than
these grave shortcomings, I feel good about what I do. Imagination, the

That's just it, man. I don't even watch those shows anymore. I grew up
watching that stuff when I was in about high school (late '80s), but it
just doesn't pay to compare myself to people who are really good at what I
do.

I play flute and guitar , but I don't have the patience and dedication to
practice several hours a day, *every* day, in order to get really good at
either one of them. I have a "meadow garden" because after the first
couple of weeks of pulling up the same damn weeds I pulled up five times
already every spring, I get fed up and decide to call the weeds wildflowers
one more year.

Beyond these two, where the only real excuse is a lack of dedication,
there's also the very real question of money. Mastery is expensive. You
have to run through a lot of consumables to build the skills to be really
good at just about anything you might want to try. Wood, metal, clay,
paint, canvas, model locomotive bodies...

Mastery in most of my hobbies is extremely expensive, even once you've
gotten past the cost of the basic equipment. Maybe a new floowhutzit can
help you make quicker spleedles, but if you don't use the floowhutzit
correctly, it won't make any difference, and practice eats material.

I can't afford a floowhutzit, and don't have room for it anyway, so I guess
I won't make spleedles, or I'll figure out how to make them with what I've
got.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Scott Cramer wrote:

chisel and a mallet, for starters. You'll need regular chisels, too, I'd
suggest the Marples blue handle jobs for starters. Plan on spending a day
learning how to sharpen them - Scary Sharp(tm) is fast and easy.

Bah, humbug. I still haven't gotten those stupid things sharpened yet, and
I spent all *day* yesterday sliding stuff against sandpaper.

It's going to be worth it though. I don't have it right yet, but I can see
the beginnings of the fabled mirror shine.

In all seriousness, it's going to work. I just had to suck it up and buy
all the in-between grits I was missing. I've concluded that you can either
use a lot of grits, or use up a lot of paper in a few grits without ever
getting it quite there.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Thanks for the advice.

I was to get to the cart before the horse. I wanted to build the greatest
of furniture without mastering the simple box. I think I'm starting to 'get
it' thanks to all of you and the wisdom you've all shared.

I have listened to what you all have said and I must admit that I'm backing
up a bit further than I thought I would. I'm going to build a good bench
starting next weekend. I spent all day looking at bench plans and trying to
convince myself I dont have to have the very best out there. I've decided
on building this one....
http://www.terraclavis.com/bws/beginners.htm
Its a nice bench.. I think I can build it over a few weekends to lessen the
financial blow. What are the cheapest vises I can use to cover the plan and
still do a decent job for a beginner... anyone?

I think just building this bench is going to help me learn sooooo much. And
this guy's site is awesome.. really good instructions and pictures to boot.
And I'm hoping I can build one as nice as his young son did. I don't have
all the tools he has, so hopefully I can get by with what I have with the
few Im gonna buy shortly (hand tools).

I doubt my sheet of mdf and sawhorses will do the job. :-)

Thanks everyone for the advice.
Mike


"Larry Kraus" wrote in message
...
"Mike W." wrote:


I always seem to wait on
the good woodworking projects until I get 'just that one more power tool'
so
I can be like Norm. Heck... I can build anything once I get 'that'.

This weekend, I'm going to buy myself a good dovetail saw and a decent
mortising chisel or two. And Im gonna learn to do good woodworks the
hard
way/right way/old way/insert your way here.

So, since I'm going 'primitive' in the interest of 'going' at all, anyone
want to share anything else thats a must have?

FYI - I have a cheapo table saw, circular saw, jig saw, router with
homemade
router table ( no fence except for a straight board and two clamps), roto
tool, drill, and a 10" compound miter saw.

If there is something you want to build, "must haves" are the tools
you need to build it. Start with what you have, and add those tools
that are necessary, keeping in mind that there are usually several
possible methods to cut wood to the desired shape.

Buying a tool because someone else thinks it essential is a good way
to fill your shop and empty your pocket but it will not get anything
built. It's better to work with your existing resources and spend the
money on wood.

Since I know you will follow this advice to the extent you paid for
it, your upcoming venture onto the slippery slope of Neanderdom is
certain to lead to a collection of hand planes, and for that you MUST
HAVE a sturdy bench. : )

Thanks for the advice.

I was to get to the cart before the horse. I wanted to build the greatest
of furniture without mastering the simple box. I think I'm starting to 'get
it' thanks to all of you and the wisdom you've all shared.

I have listened to what you all have said and I must admit that I'm backing
up a bit further than I thought I would. I'm going to build a good bench
starting next weekend. I spent all day looking at bench plans and trying to
convince myself I dont have to have the very best out there. I've decided
on building this one....
http://www.terraclavis.com/bws/beginners.htm
Its a nice bench.. I think I can build it over a few weekends to lessen the
financial blow. What are the cheapest vises I can use to cover the plan and
still do a decent job for a beginner... anyone?

I think just building this bench is going to help me learn sooooo much. And
this guy's site is awesome.. really good instructions and pictures to boot.
And I'm hoping I can build one as nice as his young son did. I don't have
all the tools he has, so hopefully I can get by with what I have with the
few Im gonna buy shortly (hand tools).

I doubt my sheet of mdf and sawhorses will do the job. :-)

Thanks everyone for the advice.
Mike


"Larry Kraus" wrote in message
...
"Mike W." wrote:


I always seem to wait on
the good woodworking projects until I get 'just that one more power tool'
so
I can be like Norm. Heck... I can build anything once I get 'that'.

This weekend, I'm going to buy myself a good dovetail saw and a decent
mortising chisel or two. And Im gonna learn to do good woodworks the
hard
way/right way/old way/insert your way here.

So, since I'm going 'primitive' in the interest of 'going' at all, anyone
want to share anything else thats a must have?

FYI - I have a cheapo table saw, circular saw, jig saw, router with
homemade
router table ( no fence except for a straight board and two clamps), roto
tool, drill, and a 10" compound miter saw.

If there is something you want to build, "must haves" are the tools
you need to build it. Start with what you have, and add those tools
that are necessary, keeping in mind that there are usually several
possible methods to cut wood to the desired shape.

Buying a tool because someone else thinks it essential is a good way
to fill your shop and empty your pocket but it will not get anything
built. It's better to work with your existing resources and spend the
money on wood.

Since I know you will follow this advice to the extent you paid for
it, your upcoming venture onto the slippery slope of Neanderdom is
certain to lead to a collection of hand planes, and for that you MUST
HAVE a sturdy bench. : )

"Mike W." wrote in message .. .
Thanks for the advice.

Snip
I doubt my sheet of mdf and sawhorses will do the job. :-)

Thanks everyone for the advice.
Mike


You know, there's a lot to be said for the plywood/sawhorse bench. In
fact, I couldn't have built my bench bench without my plywood/sawhorse
bench. And, with 2 16' 2x4s, I can build a sawhorse that you can set
a bunk of lumber on.


Well, you need two of them.

-Phil Crow

Phil Crow wrote:

Well, you need two of them.

Actually you need 4 same-height sawhorses, so a single person can cut sheet
goods safely.

-- Mark

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 15:54:05 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
wrote:

Phil Crow wrote:

Well, you need two of them.

Actually you need 4 same-height sawhorses, so a single person can cut sheet
goods safely.

-- Mark


No, you need (2) sections of 2'x8' 2" foam, so you can cut the sheet
goods on the floor. G

Barry

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 19:40:34 GMT, B a r r y B u r k e J r .
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 15:54:05 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
wrote:

Phil Crow wrote:

Well, you need two of them.

Actually you need 4 same-height sawhorses, so a single person can cut sheet
goods safely.

-- Mark


No, you need (2) sections of 2'x8' 2" foam, so you can cut the sheet
goods on the floor. G

Two plastic garbage cans work, too. Who cares if you cut through the
rim; it's garbage.


LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

"B a r r y B u r k e J r ."
No, you need (2) sections of 2'x8' 2" foam, so you can cut the sheet
goods on the floor. G

Barry

Might work OK for you young guys, but some of us would end up spending the
day down there.
Ed

"Mike W." wrote in message .. .
I have been 'watching' Norm build unbelievable stuff for the last 3 years or
so. And, as mentioned in one of my previous posts, I always seem to wait on
the good woodworking projects until I get 'just that one more power tool' so
I can be like Norm. Heck... I can build anything once I get 'that'.

My advice (FWIW, I am not a pro, just an amateur for a bit more than a
year and so recently up against some of the same questions you pose.

- You can make a quick cheap bench from 2x4's bolted to the wall, some
2x4 legs and frame, and a sheet of MDF on top of it. A quick-release
woodworkers vise can be had cheap from Harbor Freight. The result
sure isn't a fine European woodworker's bench, but it is good enough
to get you through your first few projects.

- Avoid buying wood at Home Depot or Lowes, etc. Unless you are
looking for warped pieces of wet knotty pine :-) Instead, go check
out your local hardwood yard, tell them you are just getting started
and begin with some less expensive wood like red oak. Try to buy it
S4S (planed on all 4 sides), and look for boards as straight as you
can get them.

- Get a decent handsaw. For example, the dozukis aren't too expensive
from places like Lee Valley or Woodcraft, etc. You'll also need a
small machinists square, a straight ruler, a couple of bench chisels
(probably 1/4 and 3/8 or so), and a mortising chisel (probably about
3/8" again). You'll also want a radial orbital sander. You'll need a
couple of clamps, too (Harbor Freight has okay clamps).

- Check out some books on joinery from the local library. The Taunton
book "Basics: Essentials of Woodworking" is a good overview. For
more advanced stuff the Tage Frid v1/2 woodworking book is good.

Finally... tonight I realized the error of my ways. And I should know
better. I do a lot of amateur astronomy...
....

Cool. I do amateur astronomy, too. Intes MN61 Mak-Newt.

(snip)
FYI - I have a cheapo table saw, circular saw, jig saw, router with homemade
router table ( no fence except for a straight board and two clamps), roto
tool, drill, and a 10" compound miter saw.

Have fun and remember safety.

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 01:53:55 -0400, Silvan
scribbled
snip
Mastery in most of my hobbies is extremely expensive, even once you've
gotten past the cost of the basic equipment. Maybe a new floowhutzit can
help you make quicker spleedles, but if you don't use the floowhutzit
correctly, it won't make any difference, and practice eats material.

I can't afford a floowhutzit, and don't have room for it anyway, so I guess
I won't make spleedles, or I'll figure out how to make them with what I've
got.

Just FYI, it's called a "blurfl" in this newsgroups, not a
"floowhutzit" . :-)

http://www.imaging.robarts.ca/~amulder/wood/Blurfl.txt

Luigi
Replace "no" with "yk" twice
in reply address for real email address

What would my ' local hardwood yard' be? All I know is Lowes, Home Depot
and Woodcraft... Lowes and HD have the crap you speak of, Woodcraft has
smaller way more expensive stuff? Is there something in between?

Thanks,
Mike

"Nate Perkins" wrote in message
om...
"Mike W." wrote in message
.. .
I have been 'watching' Norm build unbelievable stuff for the last 3
years or
so. And, as mentioned in one of my previous posts, I always seem to
wait on
the good woodworking projects until I get 'just that one more power
tool' so
I can be like Norm. Heck... I can build anything once I get 'that'.

My advice (FWIW, I am not a pro, just an amateur for a bit more than a
year and so recently up against some of the same questions you pose.

- You can make a quick cheap bench from 2x4's bolted to the wall, some
2x4 legs and frame, and a sheet of MDF on top of it. A quick-release
woodworkers vise can be had cheap from Harbor Freight. The result
sure isn't a fine European woodworker's bench, but it is good enough
to get you through your first few projects.

- Avoid buying wood at Home Depot or Lowes, etc. Unless you are
looking for warped pieces of wet knotty pine :-) Instead, go check
out your local hardwood yard, tell them you are just getting started
and begin with some less expensive wood like red oak. Try to buy it
S4S (planed on all 4 sides), and look for boards as straight as you
can get them.

- Get a decent handsaw. For example, the dozukis aren't too expensive
from places like Lee Valley or Woodcraft, etc. You'll also need a
small machinists square, a straight ruler, a couple of bench chisels
(probably 1/4 and 3/8 or so), and a mortising chisel (probably about
3/8" again). You'll also want a radial orbital sander. You'll need a
couple of clamps, too (Harbor Freight has okay clamps).

- Check out some books on joinery from the local library. The Taunton
book "Basics: Essentials of Woodworking" is a good overview. For
more advanced stuff the Tage Frid v1/2 woodworking book is good.

Finally... tonight I realized the error of my ways. And I should know
better. I do a lot of amateur astronomy...
...

Cool. I do amateur astronomy, too. Intes MN61 Mak-Newt.

(snip)
FYI - I have a cheapo table saw, circular saw, jig saw, router with
homemade
router table ( no fence except for a straight board and two clamps),
roto
tool, drill, and a 10" compound miter saw.

Have fun and remember safety.

Thanks for the advice... I will follow it.

Forgot the scope part in the previous post...

Again you are ahead of me :-). 8" Celestron Starhopper Dob and Orion
Skyview Deluxe 4.5" Newt on a GEM. Not much to speak of, but (unlike my
woodworking tools) they do a fine job for me... since I know how to use them
and tune them (again, unlike my woodworking tools).

Speaking of Scopes, one of the reasons I began woodworking as a hobby was
that I wanted to build a nice dob platform and rocker box out of some
beautiful apple play or even a Tiger Maple if it's possible. That has taken
a back seat to the starter projects for now, but one of these days...

Thanks again,
Mike

"Nate Perkins" wrote in message
om...
"Mike W." wrote in message
.. .
I have been 'watching' Norm build unbelievable stuff for the last 3
years or
so. And, as mentioned in one of my previous posts, I always seem to
wait on
the good woodworking projects until I get 'just that one more power
tool' so
I can be like Norm. Heck... I can build anything once I get 'that'.

My advice (FWIW, I am not a pro, just an amateur for a bit more than a
year and so recently up against some of the same questions you pose.

- You can make a quick cheap bench from 2x4's bolted to the wall, some
2x4 legs and frame, and a sheet of MDF on top of it. A quick-release
woodworkers vise can be had cheap from Harbor Freight. The result
sure isn't a fine European woodworker's bench, but it is good enough
to get you through your first few projects.

- Avoid buying wood at Home Depot or Lowes, etc. Unless you are
looking for warped pieces of wet knotty pine :-) Instead, go check
out your local hardwood yard, tell them you are just getting started
and begin with some less expensive wood like red oak. Try to buy it
S4S (planed on all 4 sides), and look for boards as straight as you
can get them.

- Get a decent handsaw. For example, the dozukis aren't too expensive
from places like Lee Valley or Woodcraft, etc. You'll also need a
small machinists square, a straight ruler, a couple of bench chisels
(probably 1/4 and 3/8 or so), and a mortising chisel (probably about
3/8" again). You'll also want a radial orbital sander. You'll need a
couple of clamps, too (Harbor Freight has okay clamps).

- Check out some books on joinery from the local library. The Taunton
book "Basics: Essentials of Woodworking" is a good overview. For
more advanced stuff the Tage Frid v1/2 woodworking book is good.

Finally... tonight I realized the error of my ways. And I should know
better. I do a lot of amateur astronomy...
...

Cool. I do amateur astronomy, too. Intes MN61 Mak-Newt.

(snip)
FYI - I have a cheapo table saw, circular saw, jig saw, router with
homemade
router table ( no fence except for a straight board and two clamps),
roto
tool, drill, and a 10" compound miter saw.

Have fun and remember safety.

Thanks for the advice... I will follow it.

Forgot the scope part in the previous post...

Again you are ahead of me :-). 8" Celestron Starhopper Dob and Orion
Skyview Deluxe 4.5" Newt on a GEM. Not much to speak of, but (unlike my
woodworking tools) they do a fine job for me... since I know how to use them
and tune them (again, unlike my woodworking tools).

Speaking of Scopes, one of the reasons I began woodworking as a hobby was
that I wanted to build a nice dob platform and rocker box out of some
beautiful apple play or even a Tiger Maple if it's possible. That has taken
a back seat to the starter projects for now, but one of these days...

Thanks again,
Mike

"Nate Perkins" wrote in message
om...
"Mike W." wrote in message
.. .
I have been 'watching' Norm build unbelievable stuff for the last 3
years or
so. And, as mentioned in one of my previous posts, I always seem to
wait on
the good woodworking projects until I get 'just that one more power
tool' so
I can be like Norm. Heck... I can build anything once I get 'that'.

My advice (FWIW, I am not a pro, just an amateur for a bit more than a
year and so recently up against some of the same questions you pose.

- You can make a quick cheap bench from 2x4's bolted to the wall, some
2x4 legs and frame, and a sheet of MDF on top of it. A quick-release
woodworkers vise can be had cheap from Harbor Freight. The result
sure isn't a fine European woodworker's bench, but it is good enough
to get you through your first few projects.

- Avoid buying wood at Home Depot or Lowes, etc. Unless you are
looking for warped pieces of wet knotty pine :-) Instead, go check
out your local hardwood yard, tell them you are just getting started
and begin with some less expensive wood like red oak. Try to buy it
S4S (planed on all 4 sides), and look for boards as straight as you
can get them.

- Get a decent handsaw. For example, the dozukis aren't too expensive
from places like Lee Valley or Woodcraft, etc. You'll also need a
small machinists square, a straight ruler, a couple of bench chisels
(probably 1/4 and 3/8 or so), and a mortising chisel (probably about
3/8" again). You'll also want a radial orbital sander. You'll need a
couple of clamps, too (Harbor Freight has okay clamps).

- Check out some books on joinery from the local library. The Taunton
book "Basics: Essentials of Woodworking" is a good overview. For
more advanced stuff the Tage Frid v1/2 woodworking book is good.

Finally... tonight I realized the error of my ways. And I should know
better. I do a lot of amateur astronomy...
...

Cool. I do amateur astronomy, too. Intes MN61 Mak-Newt.

(snip)
FYI - I have a cheapo table saw, circular saw, jig saw, router with
homemade
router table ( no fence except for a straight board and two clamps),
roto
tool, drill, and a 10" compound miter saw.

Have fun and remember safety.

Thanks for the advice... I will follow it.

Forgot the scope part in the previous post...

Again you are ahead of me :-). 8" Celestron Starhopper Dob and Orion
Skyview Deluxe 4.5" Newt on a GEM. Not much to speak of, but (unlike my
woodworking tools) they do a fine job for me... since I know how to use them
and tune them (again, unlike my woodworking tools).

Speaking of Scopes, one of the reasons I began woodworking as a hobby was
that I wanted to build a nice dob platform and rocker box out of some
beautiful apple ply or even a Tiger Maple if it's possible. That has taken
a back seat to the starter projects for now, but one of these days...

Thanks again,
Mike

"Nate Perkins" wrote in message
om...
"Mike W." wrote in message
.. .
I have been 'watching' Norm build unbelievable stuff for the last 3
years or
so. And, as mentioned in one of my previous posts, I always seem to
wait on
the good woodworking projects until I get 'just that one more power
tool' so
I can be like Norm. Heck... I can build anything once I get 'that'.

My advice (FWIW, I am not a pro, just an amateur for a bit more than a
year and so recently up against some of the same questions you pose.

- You can make a quick cheap bench from 2x4's bolted to the wall, some
2x4 legs and frame, and a sheet of MDF on top of it. A quick-release
woodworkers vise can be had cheap from Harbor Freight. The result
sure isn't a fine European woodworker's bench, but it is good enough
to get you through your first few projects.

- Avoid buying wood at Home Depot or Lowes, etc. Unless you are
looking for warped pieces of wet knotty pine :-) Instead, go check
out your local hardwood yard, tell them you are just getting started
and begin with some less expensive wood like red oak. Try to buy it
S4S (planed on all 4 sides), and look for boards as straight as you
can get them.

- Get a decent handsaw. For example, the dozukis aren't too expensive
from places like Lee Valley or Woodcraft, etc. You'll also need a
small machinists square, a straight ruler, a couple of bench chisels
(probably 1/4 and 3/8 or so), and a mortising chisel (probably about
3/8" again). You'll also want a radial orbital sander. You'll need a
couple of clamps, too (Harbor Freight has okay clamps).

- Check out some books on joinery from the local library. The Taunton
book "Basics: Essentials of Woodworking" is a good overview. For
more advanced stuff the Tage Frid v1/2 woodworking book is good.

Finally... tonight I realized the error of my ways. And I should know
better. I do a lot of amateur astronomy...
...

Cool. I do amateur astronomy, too. Intes MN61 Mak-Newt.

(snip)
FYI - I have a cheapo table saw, circular saw, jig saw, router with
homemade
router table ( no fence except for a straight board and two clamps),
roto
tool, drill, and a 10" compound miter saw.

Have fun and remember safety.

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 21:48:34 GMT, "Mike W."
wrote:

Hmmm... a bench was one of the things I keep waiting on building until I got
some more good tools. I guess my 2 sawhorses and 3'x6' piece of MDF won't
work anymore huh?




I can tell you what you need for that! A hand saw, a miter box, and a
hammer... Some shims couldn't hurt, either.

This weekend, I'm going to buy myself a good dovetail saw and a decent
mortising chisel or two. And Im gonna learn to do good woodworks the hard
way/right way/old way/insert your way here.

So, since I'm going 'primitive' in the interest of 'going' at all, anyone
want to share anything else thats a must have?

Vaughn makes a real nice hand-saw with a flexible japanese-style blade
and a narrow kerf that is a real beauty for a lot of cuts. It leaves
a nice finish and saws almost as fast as a power tool. This is the
one I've got, and it's really swell.

http://tools.aubuchonhardware.com/ha...saw-300691.asp

I did a lot of trim carpentry with one of theses and a good ol' miter
box, and it worked like a charm.

Trying to bring this thread back from the dead?

Prometheus wrote in message . ..
This weekend, I'm going to buy myself a good dovetail saw and a decent
mortising chisel or two. And Im gonna learn to do good woodworks the hard
way/right way/old way/insert your way here.

So, since I'm going 'primitive' in the interest of 'going' at all, anyone
want to share anything else thats a must have?

Vaughn makes a real nice hand-saw with a flexible japanese-style blade
and a narrow kerf that is a real beauty for a lot of cuts. It leaves
a nice finish and saws almost as fast as a power tool. This is the
one I've got, and it's really swell.

http://tools.aubuchonhardware.com/ha...saw-300691.asp

I did a lot of trim carpentry with one of theses and a good ol' miter
box, and it worked like a charm.