Phil:
9-11, the innocent that died, the terrorists who stalk us. Thursday
9/11 put a sign in your window, yard, your car. It only needs to be two
words - NEVER Forget

*****

I'm unlikely to forget this dastardly crime, but I'm not going to dwell
on it and get maudlin over it. Instead of making a sign, I think I'll
spend some time reading Al-ahram and As-sharq Al-awsat and An-nahar to
try to better understand the world I live in. I especially need to
understand why so many good folks around the world sympathized with us
but, at the same time, thought that we had it coming.

Davoud

A President lied to us with the terrible consequence that a woman had
to send her dress to the cleaners. Another President came along and
lied to us and the only thing that happened was that thousands of
innocent people died. Jeez! Go figure!

--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

In article , says...
Phil:
9-11, the innocent that died, the terrorists who stalk us. Thursday
9/11 put a sign in your window, yard, your car. It only needs to be two
words - NEVER Forget

*****

I'm unlikely to forget this dastardly crime, but I'm not going to dwell
on it and get maudlin over it. Instead of making a sign, I think I'll
spend some time reading Al-ahram and As-sharq Al-awsat and An-nahar to
try to better understand the world I live in. I especially need to
understand why so many good folks around the world sympathized with us
but, at the same time, thought that we had it coming.

Davoud


Davoud,

Let me put this to you real succinctly and save you some reading time.
Those people died because the Islamic fundamentalists who indoctrinated
them hate the freedom those in the west have and view it as a threat to
their way of life -- i.e. their radical brand of Islam. The way we
could have prevented the attack -- had the US converted to their brand
of Islam and worshipped at the feet of their Ayatollahs while killing
all Christians and others who defied their will -- that would have
satsified them. Oh, in case killing Christians doesn't sound so bad to
you, all homosexuals, adulterers, and those who question the absolute
authority of those Ayatollahs also would fall into the category of "must
be killed to appease" category.

I find it absolutely absurd that somehow people think that the way to
solve these kinds of problems is to read their literature and
"understand" the terrorists. Perhaps that was our mistake in WWII, we
should have attempted to "understand" Hitler and Tojo. Believe it or
not, there are people in this world who have as their sole motivation
the subjugation and enslavement of others -- and not in the ivory-
towered ephemeral made-up world of "enslaved to wages" or "subjugated to
the rich people supported by a Republican administration" but in the
real, guns, bullets, real physical torture sense of the phrase.

A President lied to us with the terrible consequence that a woman had
to send her dress to the cleaners. Another President came along and
lied to us and the only thing that happened was that thousands of
innocent people died. Jeez! Go figure!



Ah, now I see -- this puts your prior statement into perspective. The
fact that millions of innocent lives have been freed and many thousands
saved from a brutal dictator's torture and killing, the fact that our
troops weren't gassed indicates our president lied, despite the
overwhelming intelligence at the time that indicated a chemical threat.

Mark & Juanita wrote:

the fact that our
troops weren't gassed indicates our president lied, despite the
overwhelming intelligence at the time that indicated a chemical threat.

The fact that our troops weren't gassed proves nothing. Conversely
"absence of proof is not proof of absence." A couple tactical fighter
jets buried in the sand is not proof of WMD, but Iraq has a lot of sand.
However, all the intel revealed now indicates that there may never
have been WMD and absolutely no connection whatsoever to 9/11.

None of this is meant to defend Saddam as a good guy, but face it; if
Shrub's daddy had not, at least in his mind, lost in Iraq (and as a
result, his re-election) a decade ago, several hundred of our already
dead military brethren, and more to follow with no end in sight, would
not be there again.

Questioning our government's motives and justification for sending our
military to die in a foreign land is not unpatriotic; attacking those
who do question, while wrapped in the banner of patriotism, does smack
of fascism.

STS1(SS) aboard USS Barb, SSN-596, 1983-1987;
City of Milwaukee Firefighter, 1993 to-date;
Voted in every election since majority (age 18 for you rednecks);
My friend on the FDNY is alive because he was off that day;
Don't you f*&%$#g dare question my patriotism.

"Kevin S." wrote in message
ink.net...
Mark & Juanita wrote:

the fact that our
troops weren't gassed indicates our president lied, despite the
overwhelming intelligence at the time that indicated a chemnothing.
Conversely
"absence of proof is not proof of absence." A couple tactical fighter
jets buried in the sand is not proof of WMD, but Iraq has a lot of sand.
However, all the intel revealed now indicates that there may never
have been WMD and absolutely no connection whatsoever to 9/11.

None of this is meant to defend Saddam as a good guy, but face it; if
Shrub's daddy had not, at least in his mind, lost in Iraq (and as a ical
threat.

The fact that our troops weren't gassed proves
result, his re-election) a decade ago, several hundred of our already
dead military brethren, and more to follow with no end in sight, would
not be there again.

Questioning our government's motives and justification for sending our
military to die in a foreign land is not unpatriotic; attacking those
who do question, while wrapped in the banner of patriotism, does smack
of fascism.

STS1(SS) aboard USS Barb, SSN-596, 1983-1987;
City of Milwaukee Firefighter, 1993 to-date;
Voted in every election since majority (age 18 for you rednecks);
My friend on the FDNY is alive because he was off that day;
Don't you f*&%$#g dare question my patriotism.

I guess I missed the part where M&J questioned your patriotism. Any you
totally misrepresented their statements by quoting only part of their post.

And in case you weren't paying attention back in 92, GHWB (you'll be happy
to know his name now graces an aircraft carrier) didn't lose the election
based on what happened in Iraq. He lost it based on the public perception
of the state of the economy. The next election will probably also turn on
the public's perception of the economy. Of course, the Dems want the
economy to turn around between now and next November about as much as I want
a root canal.

todd

todd wrote:

I guess I missed the part where M&J questioned your patriotism. Any you
totally misrepresented their statements by quoting only part of their post.

That was preemptive, since the automatic response encouraged by the Bush
administration and its supporters whenever questioned about motives or
attempts to circumvent our constitutional rights, is to attack the
patriotism of the questioner.

"Kevin S." wrote in message
.net...
todd wrote:

I guess I missed the part where M&J questioned your patriotism. Any you
totally misrepresented their statements by quoting only part of their
post.

That was preemptive, since the automatic response encouraged by the Bush
administration and its supporters whenever questioned about motives or
attempts to circumvent our constitutional rights, is to attack the
patriotism of the questioner.

I see. So preemptive attacks are OK? I'll pass that on to all of the
hand-wringers complaining that we weren't under a direct threat from Iraq.
And I guess the automatic response from the left is quote someone's comments
in a misleading way such as to completely misrepresent their views, as you
did with Mark and Juanita.

todd

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 05:00:01 GMT, "Kevin S."
pixelated:

Mark & Juanita wrote:

the fact that our
troops weren't gassed indicates our president lied, despite the
overwhelming intelligence at the time that indicated a chemical threat.

The fact that our troops weren't gassed proves nothing. Conversely
"absence of proof is not proof of absence." A couple tactical fighter
jets buried in the sand is not proof of WMD, but Iraq has a lot of sand.
However, all the intel revealed now indicates that there may never
have been WMD and absolutely no connection whatsoever to 9/11.

The foremost question in our minds should be:

What is our country's "leadership" _really_ up to?


---
Where ARE those Weapons of Mass Destruction, Mr. President?
----
http://diversify.com - Guaranteed Weaponless Website Design

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 05:00:01 GMT, "Kevin S."
pixelated:

Mark & Juanita wrote:

the fact that our
troops weren't gassed indicates our president lied, despite the
overwhelming intelligence at the time that indicated a chemical
threat.

The fact that our troops weren't gassed proves nothing. Conversely
"absence of proof is not proof of absence." A couple tactical
fighter
jets buried in the sand is not proof of WMD, but Iraq has a lot of
sand.
However, all the intel revealed now indicates that there may never
have been WMD and absolutely no connection whatsoever to 9/11.

The foremost question in our minds should be:

What is our country's "leadership" _really_ up to?


Follow the money A.K.A. Halliburton A.K.A. the company that can't even
supply weapons to our soldiers.

Mark and Juanita wrote:

Davoud,
Let me put this to you real succinctly and save you some reading time.

Mark and Juanita read a great deal into what I wrote.

For example, "Oh, in case killing Christians doesn't sound so bad to
you..."

Mark and Juanita also wrote:

The fact that millions of innocent lives have been freed and many
thousands saved from a brutal dictator's torture and killing, the
fact that our troops weren't gassed indicates our president lied,
despite the overwhelming intelligence at the time that indicated
a chemical threat.

Ah. That explains it. They live in a dream world.

Davoud

--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com