I'm building a garden swing (the kind with two facing seats hanging
from a frame with a platform connecting them) and was planning to use
Redwood. I'm from the Northeast and Redwood is impossible to get
here. One lumber yard suggested that dimensional cedar would be a
good substitute but is cedar strong enough for such a structure? If
not, what other species should I consider. I could use white or red
oak but I was hoping to get away without having to mill my own
dimensional lumber. How about Fir? This will be outside but not in
contact with the soil. The feet will sit on concrete path stones.

Thanks,

George

Georgepag wrote:
I'm building a garden swing (the kind with two facing seats hanging
from a frame with a platform connecting them) and was planning to use
Redwood. I'm from the Northeast and Redwood is impossible to get
here. One lumber yard suggested that dimensional cedar would be a
good substitute but is cedar strong enough for such a structure? If
not, what other species should I consider. I could use white or red
oak but I was hoping to get away without having to mill my own
dimensional lumber. How about Fir? This will be outside but not in
contact with the soil. The feet will sit on concrete path stones.

Fir would be a good choice structurally, but is prone to splinters.

Cedar is too soft/limber in my opinion for the purpose, which would
require larger structural parts to compensate than would really have a
nice appearance.

Oak, of course, is plenty strong but working with it is more difficult
owing to it being much harder. That's not too much an issue if you have
all the tools you need, but w/ hand tools only might be problematical if
you're not an experienced woodworker. And, of course, if were to choose
oak, for an exterior project you'll want to be sure to use white, not
red, oak for weather resistance.

I'd suggest looking at cypress if you can find it locally.

--

In article m, Georgepag wrote:
I'm building a garden swing (the kind with two facing seats hanging
from a frame with a platform connecting them) and was planning to use
Redwood. I'm from the Northeast and Redwood is impossible to get
here. One lumber yard suggested that dimensional cedar would be a
good substitute but is cedar strong enough for such a structure?

It's stronger than redwood. :-)

If not, what other species should I consider.

Cypress would be a good choice: usually easier to find than redwood, stronger,
much less expensive.

If cost is not a consideration, look at teak or ipe.

I could use white or red oak

White oak, ok. Red oak, not ok.

but I was hoping to get away without having to mill my own
dimensional lumber. How about Fir? This will be outside but not in
contact with the soil. The feet will sit on concrete path stones.

Cedar or cypress would probably be your best choice.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Cedar is a perfect replacement for Redwood. Not Fir unless it is
treated (yuck). White Oak if you want a premium unit or even better
Teak or Mahogany.

On Jun 12, 10:56 am, Georgepag wrote:
I'm building a garden swing (the kind with two facing seats hanging
from a frame with a platform connecting them) and was planning to use
Redwood. I'm from the Northeast and Redwood is impossible to get
here. One lumber yard suggested that dimensional cedar would be a
good substitute but is cedar strong enough for such a structure? If
not, what other species should I consider. I could use white or red
oak but I was hoping to get away without having to mill my own
dimensional lumber. How about Fir? This will be outside but not in
contact with the soil. The feet will sit on concrete path stones.

Thanks,

George

"Georgepag" wrote in message
s.com...
I'm building a garden swing (the kind with two facing seats hanging
from a frame with a platform connecting them) and was planning to use
Redwood. I'm from the Northeast and Redwood is impossible to get
here. One lumber yard suggested that dimensional cedar would be a
good substitute but is cedar strong enough for such a structure? If
not, what other species should I consider. I could use white or red
oak but I was hoping to get away without having to mill my own
dimensional lumber. How about Fir? This will be outside but not in
contact with the soil. The feet will sit on concrete path stones.

Thanks,

George


I'm planning eventually to build some outdoor furniture and was hoping to
use ipe. Unfortunately, it's non-existent around here so my next choice is
going to be mahogany. Not the least expensive wood but should give me
pretty good resistance to rot and insects.
Cheers,
cc

"James \"Cubby\" Culbertson" wrote in
:


"Georgepag" wrote in message
s.com...
I'm building a garden swing (the kind with two facing seats hanging
from a frame with a platform connecting them) snip

I'm planning eventually to build some outdoor furniture and was hoping
to use ipe. Unfortunately, it's non-existent around here so my next
choice is going to be mahogany. Not the least expensive wood but
should give me pretty good resistance to rot and insects.
Cheers,
cc


I can't imagine that ipe is unavailable in most of North America. It's
certainly for sale at most lumber dealers near San Francisco.

Doesn't the Internet go everywhere? ;-)

Save the mahogany for the Goddard repro...

Patriarch

On Jun 12, 5:52 pm, Patriarch wrote:
"James \"Cubby\" Culbertson" wrote m:



"Georgepag" wrote in message
ps.com...
I'm building a garden swing (the kind with two facing seats hanging
from a frame with a platform connecting them) snip

I'm planning eventually to build some outdoor furniture and was hoping
to use ipe. Unfortunately, it's non-existent around here so my next
choice is going to be mahogany. Not the least expensive wood but
should give me pretty good resistance to rot and insects.
Cheers,
cc

I can't imagine that ipe is unavailable in most of North America. It's
certainly for sale at most lumber dealers near San Francisco.

Doesn't the Internet go everywhere? ;-)

Save the mahogany for the Goddard repro...

Patriarch

My nearest Ipe dealer is over 90 miles away. Too far to go with
lumber sticking out the back IMHO. I just replaced a set of stairs
off a covered back porch using Brazilian Teak (Cumaru) available by
special order at Menards (borg). It was about $5 a board foot so it
is not the cheapest but is comprable to composites. it was also the
only option within easy driving distance. It is nice looking stuff.
All the info I saw indicated it is tough on tools. That might be true
if you only work with SPF or pressure treated but any tools that see
maple, walnut or white oak will have no problem with it. At some
point I would like to do a Titanic deck chair or two. Right now it is
between white oak and this stuff for me.

Daryl

wrote:


My nearest Ipe dealer is over 90 miles away.

That's why UPS is in business.

Just make sure there are no over length boards in the shipment.G

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
wrote:


My nearest Ipe dealer is over 90 miles away.

That's why UPS is in business.
....

I'm sure any full-service lumber dealer/yard will order in anything he
wants/needs...

--

Look into the Janka hardness scale. Cedar is much harder (stronger) than
redwood.

redcedar, eastern Juniperus virginiana 4.0 900


redwood, old growth Sequoia sempervirens 2.1 480
redwood, second growth Sequoia sempervirens 1.9 420


http://www.sizes.com/units/janka.htm

--
Stoutman
www.garagewoodworks.com

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:56:48 -0700, Georgepag
wrote:

I'm building a garden swing (the kind with two facing seats hanging
from a frame with a platform connecting them) and was planning to use
Redwood. I'm from the Northeast and Redwood is impossible to get
here. One lumber yard suggested that dimensional cedar would be a
good substitute but is cedar strong enough for such a structure? If
not, what other species should I consider. I could use white or red
oak but I was hoping to get away without having to mill my own
dimensional lumber. How about Fir? This will be outside but not in
contact with the soil. The feet will sit on concrete path stones.

Thanks,

George


Do not use red oak or fir. Good choices include:

PT lumber, inexpensive
teak, expensive
cedar
cypress, fairly inexpensive
white oak
redwood

Any of these woods are strong enough. Use clear or wood with small
knots. Avoid end-grain on the stones. Fasten pads where the wood will
touch the stones.

have you thought about using round logs like debarked cedar for the
frame work?
ross
www.highislandexport.com

Phisherman wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:56:48 -0700, Georgepag
wrote:

I'm building a garden swing ...

Do not use ... fir. ...

Other than the splinter tendency which can be accommodated by selection
of grain direction and chamfering/rounding edges, etc., what's your
reason against fir?

--

On Jun 12, 2:47?pm, "James \"Cubby\" Culbertson"
wrote:
"Georgepag" wrote in message

s.com...

I'm building a garden swing (the kind with two facing seats hanging
from a frame with a platform connecting them) and was planning to use
Redwood. I'm from the Northeast and Redwood is impossible to get
here. One lumber yard suggested that dimensional cedar would be a
good substitute but is cedar strong enough for such a structure? If
not, what other species should I consider. I could use white or red
oak but I was hoping to get away without having to mill my own
dimensional lumber. How about Fir? This will be outside but not in
contact with the soil. The feet will sit on concrete path stones.

Thanks,

George

I'm planning eventually to build some outdoor furniture and was hoping to
use ipe. Unfortunately, it's non-existent around here so my next choice is
going to be mahogany. Not the least expensive wood but should give me
pretty good resistance to rot and insects.
Cheers,
cc

Rot and insect resistance for white oak is almost as good, and the
price is a great deal lower. Don't mess with red oak for outdoor use.
You can probably find ipe if you look hard enough, but, in truth, it
is too expensive for most uses, IMHO.

"Patriarch" wrote in message
. 136...
I can't imagine that ipe is unavailable in most of North America. It's
certainly for sale at most lumber dealers near San Francisco.

Doesn't the Internet go everywhere? ;-)

Save the mahogany for the Goddard repro...

Patriarch


Well I haven't been able to find it anywhere in the state of New Mexico. I
could order online but jaysus, shipping and all on a couple of hundred bf of
Ipe would probably be unreasonable (although when compared with getting the
mahogany locally, it might be in line). I could ask a dealer to order it
in but their minimum is 5000 bf. No thanks.
Cheers,
cc

On Jun 13, 9:43 pm, "James \"Cubby\" Culbertson"
wrote:
"Patriarch" wrote in message

. 136...

I can't imagine that ipe is unavailable in most of North America. It's
certainly for sale at most lumber dealers near San Francisco.

Doesn't the Internet go everywhere? ;-)

Save the mahogany for the Goddard repro...

Patriarch

Well I haven't been able to find it anywhere in the state of New Mexico. I
could order online but jaysus, shipping and all on a couple of hundred bf of
Ipe would probably be unreasonable (although when compared with getting the
mahogany locally, it might be in line). I could ask a dealer to order it
in but their minimum is 5000 bf. No thanks.
Cheers,
cc


After calling a number of lumber yards this is where I'm at. I can
get white oak easily but I would have to mill all my own dimensional
lumber. Not a real problem, I've got the tools, but I don't know if
I want to spend all that time. Forget Cypress, it's a lot more costly
than the oak is here. I can get dimensional mahogany (2x4x8&10,
2x6x8&10) for a good price at a local yard.. I've purchased Mahogany
from here before to do a deck railing and that is the quality of it.
So, I think it will be either Cedar or Mahogany. I have to go to the
yard and check on the quality of the Mahogany.

George

Sounds like a plan. Whichever of the two you use I'm sure it will hold
up better than the Adirondack chairs I built from soft 1" #3 Pine. All
the ones I sold were totally painted with exterior house paint or oil
stained with Thompsons or Penafin.

I set one unfinished Pine chair and footrest outside for the last two
years, rain, sun, freez, 110 degrees; as a test. The wood has actually
held up pretty well. Just this summer as the heat has come on the glue
gave out and the staples are starting to come loose in some spots. I
used 3, 1/4" x 2" stables at each 3x1 slat. I think I'll go all screws
in the future or maybe just add one screw an drop to 2 staples at each
end.

I had this brilliant idea I could make a business of these chairs.
Using my gang ripper, pocket screws and some really cool fixtures
(jigs) I could cut and build a dozen of these chairs in a day, easy.
They were in 4 pieces, a base, two arm assemblies and a back. These
pieces could be assembled by the buyer using 1/4"-20 x 2" galvanized
carriage bolts. Also had a nice foot rest too and a table.

I assumed I could use a house sprayer and 5 gallon buckets of cheap
exterior paint. Problem was spraying these out was a nightmare. The
house sprayer laid down way too much paint, didn't get in the gaps and
would have killed my profits. So I took to hand finishing them with
oil stain or latex. Looked great in white and blue kind of chalky
beach color stains. Again, labor was 3x the build time just to finish
them.

I set up a road side stand right on a busy intersection with an empty
lot in the town I live in. Sold out 20 sets (2 chairs, 2 foot rests, 1
table) in two days at $250 a set during a heat wave. Not bad since the
material was less than $50 a set, much less if I recall right. But the
labor on finishing killed me.

I finally found a good wholesale supplier of Cedar and will likely
revive the business next season, to late to ramp up now. The cedar can
go totally unfinished and removes my labor problem. I have a few
nurserys that will take them on consignment, on my terms and once they
sell a few I assume they will start buying them.




On Jun 14, 6:06 pm, Georgepag wrote:
On Jun 13, 9:43 pm, "James \"Cubby\" Culbertson"
wrote:





"Patriarch" wrote in message

.136...

I can't imagine that ipe is unavailable in most of North America. It's
certainly for sale at most lumber dealers near San Francisco.

Doesn't the Internet go everywhere? ;-)

Save the mahogany for the Goddard repro...

Patriarch

Well I haven't been able to find it anywhere in the state of New Mexico. I
could order online but jaysus, shipping and all on a couple of hundred bf of
Ipe would probably be unreasonable (although when compared with getting the
mahogany locally, it might be in line). I could ask a dealer to order it
in but their minimum is 5000 bf. No thanks.
Cheers,
cc

After calling a number of lumber yards this is where I'm at. I can
get white oak easily but I would have to mill all my own dimensional
lumber. Not a real problem, I've got the tools, but I don't know if
I want to spend all that time. Forget Cypress, it's a lot more costly
than the oak is here. I can get dimensional mahogany (2x4x8&10,
2x6x8&10) for a good price at a local yard.. I've purchased Mahogany
from here before to do a deck railing and that is the quality of it.
So, I think it will be either Cedar or Mahogany. I have to go to the
yard and check on the quality of the Mahogany.

George- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
....
I assumed I could use a house sprayer and 5 gallon buckets of cheap
exterior paint. Problem was spraying these out was a nightmare. The
house sprayer laid down way too much paint, didn't get in the gaps and
would have killed my profits. So I took to hand finishing them with
oil stain or latex. Looked great in white and blue kind of chalky
beach color stains. Again, labor was 3x the build time just to finish
them.
....

Cut the pieces, then hang them on a large rack and paint before
assembling. If making glue joints, spray the rough pieces and do the
joinery on the finished pieces if too complex to cover/protect them.

For the stain/oil, dip instead of coat...

Other than that, sounds like a good plan...

--