Saw this today in the HF email sales ad:

http://tinyurl.com/yq3kze

There seem to be about four or five of these single stage units out
there, and given their limitations, they seem to work pretty well. I
have a friend of mine that didn't want to spend a lot as he wasn't
going to use it much, and he bought one of these. He bought it to use
on a small deck, and he has now stained everything that can't run away
from him.

He wags that thing around like a leaf blower, and has stained and
sealed decks, handrails, etc.for everyone in his family. We were even
able to get it to spray some clear urethane at about 30 - 40% thinned,
and the finish looked pretty damn good.

This is the better one of the two they sell, and it would probably be
great for someone looking to get a small system or to try out HVLP.
I can't buy an aircap for my Fuji for the $33 they are asking for it
in the ad.

We all know HF; just keep the receipt in case you get a dud.

No affiliation, etc.

Robert

How long is it going to be on sale????? ;~)


wrote in message
ps.com...
Saw this today in the HF email sales ad:

http://tinyurl.com/yq3kze

There seem to be about four or five of these single stage units out
there, and given their limitations, they seem to work pretty well. I
have a friend of mine that didn't want to spend a lot as he wasn't
going to use it much, and he bought one of these. He bought it to use
on a small deck, and he has now stained everything that can't run away
from him.

He wags that thing around like a leaf blower, and has stained and
sealed decks, handrails, etc.for everyone in his family. We were even
able to get it to spray some clear urethane at about 30 - 40% thinned,
and the finish looked pretty damn good.

This is the better one of the two they sell, and it would probably be
great for someone looking to get a small system or to try out HVLP.
I can't buy an aircap for my Fuji for the $33 they are asking for it
in the ad.

We all know HF; just keep the receipt in case you get a dud.

No affiliation, etc.

Robert

On Jun 7, 5:19 pm, "Leon" wrote:

How long is it going to be on sale????? ;~)

Was that Swing I heard in the background jingling the truck keys??
You should know Leon, this IS about half price. ;^)


In all honesty, I am thinking of getting one of these just to try it
out. With two CAS guns and two turbine guns I need it like a hole in
the head, but inquiring minds, you know...

Robert

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 7, 5:19 pm, "Leon" wrote:

How long is it going to be on sale????? ;~)

Was that Swing I heard in the background jingling the truck keys??
You should know Leon, this IS about half price. ;^)


In all honesty, I am thinking of getting one of these just to try it
out. With two CAS guns and two turbine guns I need it like a hole in
the head, but inquiring minds, you know...

All kidding aside, it does look worth a try. I am almost over budget this
month though. I'd be anxious to hear how it works.

On Jun 8, 12:38 am, "Upscale" wrote:

We finished the class by applying three coats of urethane with a low end HVLP unit. Considering over fifty percent of the class was woodworking newbies
including women, the finish results were outstanding.

How low end? Was it a single or two stage setup? CAS (compressor) or
turbine powered?

The learning curve with an HVLP unit is very low.

It wasn't for me on all finishes. Shooting some finishes were much
harder than others. A rapidly warming day in 90% humidity with a gun
full of lacquer finishing in a builder's garage might make you rethink
that. The good news is that some of the manufacturers are tailoring
some of their finishes to work with HVLP. At least that's what they
told me.

Well worth the investment.

I agree. I have the guys at WoodCraft thinking that they would like me
to give a weekend class on using one of these bargain units as they
either sell or are thinking of selling their version. I couldn't buy
half of one of my CAS guns for what that whole HF system costs, much
less my turbine setup with two guns.

For $33 you could sure get a cheap education on gun use and setup
without breaking the bank. Then you could decided if you needed to
get something larger later.

Robert

wrote in message

In all honesty, I am thinking of getting one of these just to try it
out. With two CAS guns and two turbine guns I need it like a hole in
the head, but inquiring minds, you know...

I took a seminar at Lee Valley Tools last Saturday with Peter Boeckh on wood
finishing and he spent a good portion of the seminar lauding HVLP. We
finished the class by applying three coats of urethane with a low end HVLP
unit. Considering over fifty percent of the class was woodworking newbies
including women, the finish results were outstanding. The learning curve
with an HVLP unit is very low. Well worth the investment.

On Jun 8, 2:31 am, "Upscale" wrote:
If I remember rightly, it was a Lemmer (I think a T-75Q), 2 stage turbine. Peter said it cost about $500. It wasn't a loud machine and functioned well
for the 8-10 students who attended the seminar.

http://www.lemmer.com/hvlp.htm

The Lemmers have been around forever and seem to be a good, no
nonsense machine. When I was looking around at machines, I found out
that almost all machines that go 2 stages and above use the same
turbine assembly from the same manufacturer.

Different housings, paint, filtering systems, etc., but the guts were
the same. I know Lemmer uses these good quality turbines, too.

I think once you start getting into the better machines, almost all of
them cost within a $100 or so of each other. I know when I shopped
really hard when trying to figure out which setup to buy, but price
wasn't the deciding factor as the setup and accessories I wanted all
came out to be about $1400 or so to the door.

It came down to the choice of guns for me.

Do you remember what brand of urethane you sprayed and if it was
thinned before applying? If so, how much?

I have a four stage setup so I don't have to thin much of anything on
good weather days but I have always wondered about the 2 & 3 stage
setups.

Robert

wrote in message

How low end? Was it a single or two stage setup? CAS (compressor) or
turbine powered?

If I remember rightly, it was a Lemmer (I think a T-75Q), 2 stage turbine.
Peter said it cost about $500. It wasn't a loud machine and functioned well
for the 8-10 students who attended the seminar.

http://www.lemmer.com/hvlp.htm

wrote in message
How low end? Was it a single or two stage setup? CAS (compressor) or
turbine powered?

If I remember rightly, it was a Lemmer (I think a T-75Q), 2 stage turbine.
Peter said it cost about $500. It wasn't a loud machine and functioned well
for the 8-10 students who attended the seminar.

http://www.lemmer.com/hvlp.htm

wrote in message

Do you remember what brand of urethane you sprayed and if it was
thinned before applying? If so, how much?

Sorry, I can't answer either of those questions. Peter did give us quite a
bit of information on thinning, but I don't remember if he actually thinned
the urethane in that case. I think he did considering that we all applied
three coats of urethane in fairly rapid succession and it was drying in the
five minutes between each coat.

On Jun 8, 4:35 am, "Upscale" wrote:

Sorry, I can't answer either of those questions. Peter did give us quite a bit of information on thinning, but I don't remember if he actually thinned the urethane in that case. I think he did considering that we all applied
three coats of urethane in fairly rapid succession and it was drying in the five minutes between each coat.

A man after my own heart. I would rather apply thin coats of a finish
like this in rapid succession than apply medium thick coats as
suggested by the manufacturer. You have to be familiar with the
actual manufacturer's finish to do it, but it works well when you can.

If you were dry to the touch, or even dry enough for a second coat to
hang without sags, it was thinned quite a bit. Spraying a coat
urethane thin enough to kick in five minutes won't do it by itself.

Thanks for the reply.

Robert

Leon wrote:

All kidding aside, it does look worth a try. I am almost over budget this
month though. I'd be anxious to hear how it works.

I just picked up one today and can say it seems to work pretty nicely.
Of course, this it the first HVLP system I've ever used, so I have no
idea what I'm doing.

I've been strugling to get a dark enough finish on a particular
piece and rubbing in a coat of gel stain, wait a day, rub in another
coat, wait a day, was not getting no where. I just now mixed up
some Zinsser SealCoat shellac with some Mixol dyes and started
shooting at a piece of scrap. I liked what I was seeing on the
scrap, so I started shooting my project with the HVLP gun and the
concoction I had put together. I did get a little bit of a run on
one part of the project, but I'll be able to sand that out real
quick and fix it when I apply another coat in a couple of hours.
So far, within the space of about an hour, I've been able to get
the finish almost to the darkness I want. With the second coat,
it'll be right where it needs to be.

So far, I'd say this little HF HVLP gun has been worth the money in
the amount of time and frustration this is going to save me.

--

If you want to reply via email, change the obvious words to numbers and
remove ".invalid".

wrote:
Saw this today in the HF email sales ad:

http://tinyurl.com/yq3kze


I bought a Wagner blow-dryer-with-paint-nozzle-attached a couple weeks
ago and just used it for the first time today.

It's a whole new world. Painting just became fun. ;-)

Looking at it, I think that maybe the HF unit might be the better of the
two, though. First, the HF unit is simply less money. That matters to
me. Second, and more importantly, the Wagner makes you carry the blower
unit in your hand with the paint & nozzle. I painted two "Jakes Chairs"
(just the primer on loose parts -- nothing to post to abpw yet) with
thinned primer today ... high temp (92f) and humidity in the absurd range.

Not too bad.

I'll have to knock it back with a quick shot of sandpaper tomorrow, but
no brush strokes, no runs, no sags.

But that blower mounted in your hand is weight that will wear on ya. A
pound at arms length gets heavy a couple hours in. I'm gonna keep my
Wagner. But I'm thinking about getting the HF unit, too.

Bill


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000752-1, 06/26/2007
Tested on: 6/27/2007 1:05:07 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

"BillinDetroit" wrote in message
I bought a Wagner blow-dryer-with-paint-nozzle-attached a couple weeks
ago and just used it for the first time today.
It's a whole new world. Painting just became fun. ;-)

I'm not going to comment on your Wagner because I've never owned or used
one, but they don't have the best reputation in the finishing community.

pound at arms length gets heavy a couple hours in. I'm gonna keep my
Wagner. But I'm thinking about getting the HF unit, too.

I'd recommend a Lemmer if you're going to start getting serious about HVLP.
www.lemmer.com
I think you'd find that even the starter T-55Q HLVP turbine system would put
the Wagner to shame. Approximately $500 and it is a pretty decent machine.

Upscale wrote:

I'd recommend a Lemmer if you're going to start getting serious about HVLP.
www.lemmer.com
I think you'd find that even the starter T-55Q HLVP turbine system would put
the Wagner to shame. Approximately $500 and it is a pretty decent machine.


Assuming that my Wagner cost an even $100 (it was well under that), what
does the Lemmer give me that is worth the additional $400?


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000752-2, 06/27/2007
Tested on: 6/27/2007 7:20:11 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

"BillinDetroit" wrote in message
Assuming that my Wagner cost an even $100 (it was well under that), what
does the Lemmer give me that is worth the additional $400?

As I said, I haven't used a Wagner, so I can't point to individual
differences. All I can do in that area is accede to the comments I've read
on Wagner deficiencies as posted by many others here. Maybe that's hearsay,
but I accept it. As to the Lemmer, it's easy to set up, sprays very evenly,
cleans up easily and appears to be considerably more versatile. When I see
10 people using one Lemmer doing three coats each over the total space of an
hour with excellent results, then that's enough to convince me that the
extra money is worth it. Considering that the Wagner is marketed directly to
the home consumer market is enough to convince me that it wouldn't come
close to Lemmer capability.

As to details, others with Wagner experience might respond with why a Lemmer
is a better tool than a Wagner.

BillinDetroit wrote in
:

Upscale wrote:

I'd recommend a Lemmer if you're going to start getting serious about
HVLP. www.lemmer.com
I think you'd find that even the starter T-55Q HLVP turbine system
would put the Wagner to shame. Approximately $500 and it is a pretty
decent machine.


Assuming that my Wagner cost an even $100 (it was well under that),
what does the Lemmer give me that is worth the additional $400?


I've been away on business, so I'm late to this party, but...

Almost any Wagner that works initially, refuses to do so again the second
or third time it is used. I believe, based on no investigation whatsoever,
that various bits and pieces are not particularly resistant to the
materials that flow through and by them in use and cleaning.

Now I've only tried to use three or four of these gems over the years,
provided by friends who were, at one point, happy with their performance.
I never was. Probably just me, being an elitist.

But I can buy a Purdy brush for less than $20, and use it for 20 years.
And it usually does the job pretty well.

YMMV.

Patriarch,
not a Wagner fan, unless it's German classical music...

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:40:03 -0500, Patriarch
wrote:

But I can buy a Purdy brush for less than $20, and use it for 20 years.
And it usually does the job pretty well.

I LOVE Purdy brushes, and use them all the time with varnish and
paint. Purdy makes some of the best brushes around and they're worth
the investment. I now own a really nice, pro grade, HVLP unit that's
beyond the scope of this discussion and capable of flawless work.

That said, the $69 HF HVLP I started out with applied nitrocellulose
and water base lacquer, vinyl sealer (Quick 15), and Zinnser Sealcoat
better than my Purdy brushes.

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Jul 1, 9:43 pm, BillinDetroit wrote:

Hey Bill!

What does the Lemmer bring to the table that would warrant a $500 price tag even if Wagner (or HF) HVLP sprayers didn't exist? What justifies a $400+ spread between it and these two bargain basement sprayers?

Titanium carbide nozzles? Graphite composite body?

The Lemmer guys have been around forever. They are known in the
industry to make a no frills system that is dependable and works
well. I haven't ever heard of anyone complaining about the actual
qualityof their Lemmer.

Metal parts where needed, an ACTUAL turbine spray system with a real
turbine, and years of use would make my vote.

I don't think that a professional would even consider a Wagner. Why would a home-owner / hobbyist consider a Lemmer?

Wagner in the past has made some good products in their upper end of
sprayers, etc. I am not sure that is the case anymore. The Wagner
Corporation is so large now that they are becoming the Black and
Decker of the sprayer world. Parts are made here and there, and tools
that work so/so in some cases.

I would certainly look at one of those $100 HVLP setups before I would
look at anything Wagner had to offer. That little system will throw a
pretty good pattern and give you a chance to learn HVLP.

My experience with Wagner has been inconsistent results, the inability
of their machines to accurately apply finishes, and then the
cantankerous nature of their machines. That being said, I do have one
of the biggest buzz guns that I bought when my airless was being
repaired and have used it quite a bit. I used it when I bought it to
paint a small one story house and it ate up the deal. Now I use it to
spray decks and fences with solvent based materials since I don't want
that stuff in my airless setup (latex only in mine!)

I think if I was looking at a Lemmer, I would buy a Fuji Mini Mite.
It has a newer, more effiecient gun, and it is a real HVLP turbine you
could use to paint and finish your projects and get great utility
value from it for years to come. The service behind the product is
great if you buy from one of their dealers.

If you like, I will get you the name of the dealer I went to as he is
great. I am pretty sure Barry bought his from the same guy.

Robert

BillinDetroit wrote:


I'm not doing high-volume production painting. I just want to paint a
few chairs, some planting boxes and the neighbors cat. Maybe re-paint
the garage exterior in the fall and paint the interior for the first
time ever. Or even paint over the rust on my chain link fence.

So buy one of those less than $100 Chinese HVLP units (my first was $69
@ HF), learn to thin the paint to match the tool's capability, and have fun!

If you have a decent compressor, ala the typical 30 gallon unit or
better, a Critter can do a fine job as well, but with much more
overspray and a thinner coat.

B A R R Y wrote:
BillinDetroit wrote:


I'm not doing high-volume production painting. I just want to paint a
few chairs, some planting boxes and the neighbors cat. Maybe re-paint
the garage exterior in the fall and paint the interior for the first
time ever. Or even paint over the rust on my chain link fence.

So buy one of those less than $100 Chinese HVLP units (my first was $69
@ HF), learn to thin the paint to match the tool's capability, and have
fun!

If you have a decent compressor, ala the typical 30 gallon unit or
better, a Critter can do a fine job as well, but with much more
overspray and a thinner coat.



That's what I did. The Wagner I bought is an "HVLP" unit that basically
has a blow dryer mounted to a spray head.

I think that I need to thin just a LITTLE bit more. While the paint
ejects from the spray head in an atomized mist, it doesn't seem to flow
out afterward. I think it might be just too thick still. I DO spray
until the surface just looks wet. Then, too, surface prep ended at 60
grit ... so maybe the paint is fine and I am just painting on a crummy
surface.

The basic object of this exercise is to establish a simple level of
competency that will let me make a better informed decision when I
eventually move up to a 'full-on' sprayer. Possibly I will keep this
Wagner for fence painting or concrete painting and other rough jobs
where getting something the right color is the only real goal.

Dunno. But $500 is probably out of my league. I might, however, be
tempted to part with about 1/2 that amount if I can convince myself that
there will be sufficient future work to justify the purchase.

Bill

--
I'm not not at the above address.
http://nmwoodworks.com


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000753-1, 07/02/2007
Tested on: 7/3/2007 2:00:50 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com