While at the university, one of my sons took a course called precision
engineering or something like that. In this class one of the things they had
to do was lap two pieces of steel until the steel was so smooth that when
you placed them together, they would take suction on each other and had to
pulled apart .

I never thought much about it until recently. A while back I was in the
local Woodcraft store and they had 10% off everything in the store sale
going on. In my befuddled state, I came home with a Lie Nielsen 4 1/2 hand
plane. :-)

When I take the iron out of the plane to hone it a bit, the iron and chip
breaker take suction on each other and I have to slide them side ways to
separate them. I don't know how they accomplish it, but I'm impressed.

The plane is a delight to use.

I remember from years ago I was an inspector at the old Wisc. Motors plant
in Milw. They had a set of Johansson (sp) blocks to set your mics with.
Someone put them together and they had one hell of time separating them.
"Lowell Holmes" wrote in message
news:S4xYh.1070$2V1.961@trnddc08...
While at the university, one of my sons took a course called precision
engineering or something like that. In this class one of the things they
had to do was lap two pieces of steel until the steel was so smooth that
when you placed them together, they would take suction on each other and
had to pulled apart .

I never thought much about it until recently. A while back I was in the
local Woodcraft store and they had 10% off everything in the store sale
going on. In my befuddled state, I came home with a Lie Nielsen 4 1/2 hand
plane. :-)

When I take the iron out of the plane to hone it a bit, the iron and chip
breaker take suction on each other and I have to slide them side ways to
separate them. I don't know how they accomplish it, but I'm impressed.

The plane is a delight to use.

I am a machinist and I use gage blocks to measure keyways and you slide them
together and they stick to each other and sometimes hard to get
apart.....Brian





"Lowell Holmes" wrote in message
news:S4xYh.1070$2V1.961@trnddc08...
While at the university, one of my sons took a course called precision
engineering or something like that. In this class one of the things they
had to do was lap two pieces of steel until the steel was so smooth that
when you placed them together, they would take suction on each other and
had to pulled apart .

I never thought much about it until recently. A while back I was in the
local Woodcraft store and they had 10% off everything in the store sale
going on. In my befuddled state, I came home with a Lie Nielsen 4 1/2 hand
plane. :-)

When I take the iron out of the plane to hone it a bit, the iron and chip
breaker take suction on each other and I have to slide them side ways to
separate them. I don't know how they accomplish it, but I'm impressed.

The plane is a delight to use.

"Lowell Holmes" wrote in message
news:S4xYh.1070$2V1.961@trnddc08...
While at the university, one of my sons took a course called precision
engineering or something like that. In this class one of the things they
had to do was lap two pieces of steel until the steel was so smooth that
when you placed them together, they would take suction on each other and
had to pulled apart .

I never thought much about it until recently. A while back I was in the
local Woodcraft store and they had 10% off everything in the store sale
going on. In my befuddled state, I came home with a Lie Nielsen 4 1/2 hand
plane. :-)

When I take the iron out of the plane to hone it a bit, the iron and chip
breaker take suction on each other and I have to slide them side ways to
separate them. I don't know how they accomplish it, but I'm impressed.


That was not a thin coat of oil holding the pieces together? Otherwise, I
understand the concept and have witnessed what you are describing.

On another note, scary thought that someone studying engineering would be
required to take a "precision engineering course. Seems all engineering
courses would be teaching precision. ;~)

"Leon" wrote in message
t...

"Lowell Holmes" wrote in message
news:S4xYh.1070$2V1.961@trnddc08...
While at the university, one of my sons took a course called precision
engineering or something like that. In this class one of the things they
had to do was lap two pieces of steel until the steel was so smooth that
snip


That was not a thin coat of oil holding the pieces together? Otherwise, I
understand the concept and have witnessed what you are describing.

On another note, scary thought that someone studying engineering would be
required to take a "precision engineering course. Seems all engineering
courses would be teaching precision. ;~)

No oil. I cleaned the steel with mineral spirits and applied Johnson Wax.
The iron and chipbreaker are that smooth.


Precision engineering is one of many classes he took on his way to a
Electrical Engineering PHD.

Bridge engineers don't need to work to molecular tolerances. That doesn't
mean their calculations aren't precise. Another of my offspring (daughter)
is a structural engineer designing structures offshore. She is as
persnickety about her designs as the boy is his.

"Lowell Holmes" wrote in message
news:YPIYh.876$zE.379@trnddc03...

No oil. I cleaned the steel with mineral spirits and applied Johnson Wax.
The iron and chipbreaker are that smooth.

I believe it.



Precision engineering is one of many classes he took on his way to a
Electrical Engineering PHD.

Bridge engineers don't need to work to molecular tolerances. That doesn't
mean their calculations aren't precise. Another of my offspring (daughter)
is a structural engineer designing structures offshore. She is as
persnickety about her designs as the boy is his.


I always thought it to be a bit odd/unusual that a brother and sister would
go into the same higher education mathematically heavy professional fields.
I also have a very good friend that has a son and a daughter that are very
successful self employed architects.

"Kewless" wrote in message
...

On 28-Apr-2007, "Leon" wrote:


Having spent a number of years in manufacturing, I can tell you
that the idea of *engineering w/o precision* is extremely
commonplace. And that at times this imprecision even
comes about by accident!

Yeah, that concept is not new to me. LOL I recently learned from an
archetct, that designers and not archetects are being used more and more in
the design of new homes.


But I do agree with you in that engineers should at least be
exposed to the concept (while still in school anyway) in the
same way that law students and business majors are expected
to familiarize themselves with the notion of ethics...

Bingo!

Leon wrote:

Seems all engineering
courses would be teaching precision. ;~)

Computers not withstanding, normal practice is limited to three (3)
significant digits. (Slip sticks are still valid)

Most engineering calculations are based on assumptions that produce
conservative results.

Deflection calculations for beams comes to mind for starters.

Lew

On Apr 27, 9:04 pm, "Lowell Holmes" wrote:
While at the university, one of my sons took a course called precision
engineering or something like that. In this class one of the things they had
to do was lap two pieces of steel until the steel was so smooth that when
you placed them together, they would take suction on each other and had to
pulled apart .

I never thought much about it until recently. A while back I was in the
local Woodcraft store and they had 10% off everything in the store sale
going on. In my befuddled state, I came home with a Lie Nielsen 4 1/2 hand
plane. :-)

When I take the iron out of the plane to hone it a bit, the iron and chip
breaker take suction on each other and I have to slide them side ways to
separate them. I don't know how they accomplish it, but I'm impressed.

The plane is a delight to use.

Lowell,
Very early in my career I worked in a factory that manufactured ball
and roller anti-friction bearings. Precision was strived for in every
step of the manufacturing process. They had an air conditioned room
where " go and no-go gages" were calibrated. They used sets of Swedish
made polished gage blocks which were wrung together in the manner you
describe to create the dimensions they required to set the gages. This
was many years ago, and I'm certain the technology has changed since
then. But those blocks were a piece of work.
Joe G

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
nk.net...
Leon wrote:

Seems all engineering courses would be teaching precision. ;~)

Computers not withstanding, normal practice is limited to three (3)
significant digits. (Slip sticks are still valid)

Most engineering calculations are based on assumptions that produce
conservative results.

Deflection calculations for beams comes to mind for starters.

Lew


I realize that the industry in the real world uses a lot of published
standards that are typically acceptable. It seems to me that if you are
going for an education in a particular field that you should also be taught
to understand the principals rather than where to find the answers in the
book. For a simplified example, a math course teaches you how to use a
paper and pencil to add and subtract rather than how to find the answer on a
calculator.
OTOH going the easier route seems to be the explanation as to why many
college graduates don't seem to have any common sense knowledge about the
field that they studied.
I recall many years ago an employee of mine getting his CPA's certificate
when we were both in our mid to late 20's. He very often quoted the book
and very often what he was quoting had nothing to do with what we were
talking about. He had a hard time with the concept of opening and using the
next in line prenumbered box of invoices. While using involves out of
order really has no ill effect on the usage of the invoice, it does seem to
help things run more smoothly for all involved if you keep'em in order. He
also was at a loss with how to, "put away for future reference", numerically
sequenced information bulletins.

"Leon" wrote in
t:

I always thought it to be a bit odd/unusual that a brother and sister
would go into the same higher education mathematically heavy
professional fields. I also have a very good friend that has a son and
a daughter that are very successful self employed architects.



I have nieces and nephews, same family, in a similar situation. One is
just finishing a physics PhD at Princton. Another has a math PhD from
Wisconsin. One stopped at a masters in biotech. Another in computer
sciences. The 'rebel' is in technical law school, having clerked in
congress, on tax law implications.

Some kids just don't 'get' tools.

Patriarch

Leon wrote:


I realize that the industry in the real world uses a lot of published
standards that are typically acceptable. It seems to me that if you are
going for an education in a particular field that you should also be taught
to understand the principals rather than where to find the answers in the
book.

Was not referring to "canned" formulas in a text book, but rather
understanding the assumptions that are required to be able to
intelligentally analyze a problem.

Had a thermodynamics prof that gave a weekly quiz.

Write the quiz on the board and walk out of the room with a comment
about using the text book.

"Gentlemen, understand I give a lot of partial credit for
understanding how to solve the problem."

"If you use a formula in the book, all I can test are your math skills."

Never opened the book for any of his exams.

OTOH going the easier route seems to be the explanation as to why many
college graduates don't seem to have any common sense knowledge about the
field that they studied.

I'm a great believer in Co-oP schools.

You gather a sense of the real world along the way.

I recall many years ago an employee of mine getting his CPA's certificate
when we were both in our mid to late 20's. He very often quoted the book
and very often what he was quoting had nothing to do with what we were
talking about.

I won't go there.


Lew

GROVER wrote:

Lowell,
Very early in my career I worked in a factory that manufactured ball
and roller anti-friction bearings. Precision was strived for in every
step of the manufacturing process. They had an air conditioned room
where " go and no-go gages" were calibrated. They used sets of Swedish
made polished gage blocks which were wrung together in the manner you
describe to create the dimensions they required to set the gages. This
was many years ago, and I'm certain the technology has changed since
then. But those blocks were a piece of work.
Joe G



Jo blocks ... gage blocks

My information is that the company making them originally, while they
had a Swedish name, were actually located in the Detroit area.

I've made my own (just for the flat reference surface, not for the
dimension!) by cross-grinding a piece of CRS until the grinding pattern
showed evenly across the surface from 4 directions. I just did it for
the experience ... I'm fully aware that CRS is not the material of
choice for a reference surface.

On the other hand, I checked it on my inspection-grade pink Starret
granite a couple years ago and it was still 0-0 across the diagonals.

:-)

Bill


--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000738-4, 05/07/2007
Tested on: 5/9/2007 1:18:55 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com