For starters, I am a beginner woodworker, just trying to learn a few
of the tricks of the trade. I have made a couple of coffee tables
recently, both out of cherry. The first was intended to be a very
large, beefy and rustic table, with a live edge. The top is roughly
36" x 60" and about an inch and a half thick. Legs all 1 and 3/4"
square, rounded edges 3/4 of the way up and some beadwork on the
aprons. The wood was dry and all quartersawn. Nevertheless, I had a
very tough challenge trying to joint those boards due to their size.
The table came out great though and I've had very little movement on
the top (glued and biscuited). I finished with some Poly and
wetsanded and polished with rottenstone for a really nice finish.

The second table however, just a bit different. This one was
fashioned out of 1" thick cherry, mostly flatsawn. (Same legs, aprons
but a nice oiled finish.) I made a much smaller table and the top is
say 32"x 48". I tried to carefully joint the 3 boards I used for the
top, used biscuits again and a good glue- clamped flat. I have now
noticed two of the joints opening up just a bit- which is causing me a
bit of concern.

My longwinded question- what can I do to improve my gluing results? I
bought a large cherry dining table, 8' long 4' wide that has 6 1"
boards glued together without a trace of imperfection anywhere. I
want results like that!

I really appreciate any pointers, links or other suggestions. Also,
how can I correct any spitting that might occur? Could I use some type
of screw from under the table top (maybe in a pocket jig hole) to draw
the boards back together? Other techniques to correct.

Thanks much

PS- I do recognize the importance of seasoning the wood, and the
issues that cause wood movement- what I am interested in other
techniques to improve the success rate and also how to correct the
splits after the fact!

.. I have now
noticed two of the joints opening up just a bit- which is causing me a
bit of concern.

Did you have to pull them together to glue the joint? that's a no no. They
should be really really straight before glue-up.

My longwinded question- what can I do to improve my gluing results? I
bought a large cherry dining table, 8' long 4' wide that has 6 1"
boards glued together without a trace of imperfection anywhere. I
want results like that!

The easy way is to start with dry acclimated stock and pass it over a
well-tuned jointer. The other way requires skill that I don't have so I will
save that for someone else.

I really appreciate any pointers, links or other suggestions. Also,
how can I correct any spitting that might occur? Could I use some type
of screw from under the table top (maybe in a pocket jig hole) to draw
the boards back together? Other techniques to correct.

Remove the top and rip through the seam on the table saw. Rejoint and
reglue. You want to remove the stresses pulling on that joint.


Thanks much

PS- I do recognize the importance of seasoning the wood, and the
issues that cause wood movement

Movement is fine... what is getting you here is unequal movement.

Regards,

Steve



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Assuming boards were jointed well (on a well-tuned jointer with sharp
knives using good technique) try jointing boards twice. After the
first jointing let the boards sit for a couple of weeks to "settle
down". Then joint again and glue. Some say after jointing on a
jointer, you must use a jointer plane to get perfect glue edge. Don't
have #7, wouldn't know.

If your first table was made out of a softer wood than cherry,
imperfect edge was smashed a bit by clamps and the glue line looks
fine. That'll be my guess.

alexM







On Apr 10, 6:08 pm, "C & S" wrote:
. I have now

noticed two of the joints opening up just a bit- which is causing me a
bit of concern.

Did you have to pull them together to glue the joint? that's a no no. They
should be really really straight before glue-up.

My longwinded question- what can I do to improve my gluing results? I
bought a large cherry dining table, 8' long 4' wide that has 6 1"
boards glued together without a trace of imperfection anywhere. I
want results like that!

The easy way is to start with dry acclimated stock and pass it over a
well-tuned jointer. The other way requires skill that I don't have so I will
save that for someone else.

I really appreciate any pointers, links or other suggestions. Also,
how can I correct any spitting that might occur? Could I use some type
of screw from under the table top (maybe in a pocket jig hole) to draw
the boards back together? Other techniques to correct.

Remove the top and rip through the seam on the table saw. Rejoint and
reglue. You want to remove the stresses pulling on that joint.



Thanks much

PS- I do recognize the importance of seasoning the wood, and the
issues that cause wood movement

Movement is fine... what is getting you here is unequal movement.

Regards,

Steve

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

Thanks. I probably didn't explain accurately. I didn't "over clamp"
the boards, nor have to "pull" them together. I have a minor split on
one end of the table, along the seam. My jointer is new, but I'm just
as new in using it. The boards all looked tight prior to gluing, and
they stayed tight for several weeks before the split started to show.
I just want to find out how I can assure the boards are perfectly flat
along the whole lengths and perfectly parallel to one another along
with any other tips that help assure success.

On this particular project, unless the seam really opens up a lot more
I can probably live with it. I really don't want to re-cut and glue
it again unless it really opens up and becomes very noticeable.


On Apr 10, 7:08 pm, "C & S" wrote:
. I have now

noticed two of the joints opening up just a bit- which is causing me a
bit of concern.

Did you have to pull them together to glue the joint? that's a no no. They
should be really really straight before glue-up.

My longwinded question- what can I do to improve my gluing results? I
bought a large cherry dining table, 8' long 4' wide that has 6 1"
boards glued together without a trace of imperfection anywhere. I
want results like that!

The easy way is to start with dry acclimated stock and pass it over a
well-tuned jointer. The other way requires skill that I don't have so I will
save that for someone else.

I really appreciate any pointers, links or other suggestions. Also,
how can I correct any spitting that might occur? Could I use some type
of screw from under the table top (maybe in a pocket jig hole) to draw
the boards back together? Other techniques to correct.

Remove the top and rip through the seam on the table saw. Rejoint and
reglue. You want to remove the stresses pulling on that joint.



Thanks much

PS- I do recognize the importance of seasoning the wood, and the
issues that cause wood movement

Movement is fine... what is getting you here is unequal movement.

Regards,

Steve

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

wrote in message

I just want to find out how I can assure the boards are perfectly flat
along the whole lengths and perfectly parallel to one another along
with any other tips that help assure success.

Often it is the sum of all the little things you do that lead to sucess in
glueups.

If you don't already do it, use the principle of "complementary angles",
along with your jointer, for just one more little piece of the puzzle to
help get closer to "perfect enough" glueups.

With all boards faceup, as they will be in the final glueup, put an "I" on
one side, and an "O" on the opposite side of each adjacent glue joint with a
piece of chalk/pencil.

Then do one more pass over the jointer as follows:

"I" (inside) means that face goes against the jointer fence.

"O" (outside) means that face goes away from the jointer fence.

Make a pass with each marked edge in the appropriate orientation as above.
Interior boards will get two passes, the two end boards will get one each.

The resulting edges of adjacent boards will now equal 90 degrees even if
your jointer fence is not precisely set to 90 degrees.

This method will help you take advantage of the principle of "complementary
angles" to obtain 90 degree joints for adjacent boards in a glueup, without
getting mixed up, and will speed the process tremendously.

If you can get the advice of letting freshly jointed boards "sit for a
couple of weeks" before gluing up, you're a better man than me.

Personally, I prefer to glueup immediately upon edge jointing ... I've had
much better luck that way, time after time.

YMMV ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07

On Apr 10, 10:31 pm, "Swingman" wrote:

If you don't already do it, use the principle of "complementary angles", along with your jointer, for just one more little piece of the puzzle to help get closer to "perfect enough" glueups.

SNIP of excellent advice.

I had to laugh when I read that, not at you, but thinking of myself in
the shop. I can be such a distracted idiot sometimes when working, I
can't use anything as sophisticated as two marks... it is no use...
beyond me.

I lay the boards out the way they will be glued up, with an X to
signify "up" on the side I am standing on. I pick up one board, walk
over to the machine and square off one edge. I walk that piece back
over to the layout and put it where it belongs. The interior boards
are jointed by making sure that I start on the same end and mind my
technique. If one is a little off, I flip it around and joint with
the other side facing the fence. They all fit with a pass or two. I
spent an awful lot of time setting up my jointer with a machinist's
square to make that happen.

I never thought of doing them all that way on purpose!

Damn! You're taking all the fun out of it!


If you can get the advice of letting freshly jointed boards "sit for a couple of weeks" before gluing up, you're a better man than me.

Personally, I prefer to glueup immediately upon edge jointing ... I've had much better luck that way, time after time.

Me too. I have bought so much improperly dried wood lately that I
plane/joint/glue as close to the same day as possible so I can keep a
handle on the movement. Better yet, apply finish as soon as possible
to help keep the wood from drying unevenly. No matter how good the
finish is, the wood will continue to outgas and dry, just at a
significantly slower rate once finished, but the movement will be
greatly reduced.

Robert

On Apr 10, 11:31 pm, "Swingman" wrote:
wrote in message
I just want to find out how I can assure the boards are perfectly flat
along the whole lengths and perfectly parallel to one another along
with any other tips that help assure success.

Often it is the sum of all the little things you do that lead to sucess in
glueups.

If you don't already do it, use the principle of "complementary angles",
along with your jointer, for just one more little piece of the puzzle to
help get closer to "perfect enough" glueups.

With all boards faceup, as they will be in the final glueup, put an "I" on
one side, and an "O" on the opposite side of each adjacent glue joint with a
piece of chalk/pencil.

Then do one more pass over the jointer as follows:

"I" (inside) means that face goes against the jointer fence.

"O" (outside) means that face goes away from the jointer fence.

Make a pass with each marked edge in the appropriate orientation as above.
Interior boards will get two passes, the two end boards will get one each.

The resulting edges of adjacent boards will now equal 90 degrees even if
your jointer fence is not precisely set to 90 degrees.

This method will help you take advantage of the principle of "complementary
angles" to obtain 90 degree joints for adjacent boards in a glueup, without
getting mixed up, and will speed the process tremendously.

If you can get the advice of letting freshly jointed boards "sit for a
couple of weeks" before gluing up, you're a better man than me.

Personally, I prefer to glueup immediately upon edge jointing ... I've had
much better luck that way, time after time.

YMMV ...

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07



Thanks for the great tip. I use a square to check the jointer's
squareness, but this sounds like an excellent method to employ and I
will try it on my next project.

Thanks again!

Thanks for the great tip. I use a square to check the jointer's
squareness, but this sounds like an excellent method to employ and I
will try it on my next project.

Thanks again!


A square? Ugg. Try this for a 'perfect' 90 degrees: (By the way, I
checked my Home Depot square recently and it is NOT square. If you don't
have a decent square, forget about it.)

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/jigsfixtures.htm Last one down.

OR even better:

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/TS_aligner.htm

"Swingman" wrote:

If you don't already do it, use the principle of "complementary angles",
along with your jointer, for just one more little piece of the puzzle to
help get closer to "perfect enough" glueups.

Now that is just plain damn sneaky.

Mikey likes it, so do I.

Lew

In article
"Swingman" writes:

If you can get the advice of letting freshly jointed boards "sit for a
couple of weeks" before gluing up, you're a better man than me.

I get it, but only because it was in one of the woodworking books I read.

The principle is that wood grows under tension, and when it is cut
the tension is (to some extent) released. The less you are changing
the board, the less the effect will be from that release. The
larger the change (ripping a wide/thick board), the more chance
that there will be shifting as the wood fibers get their freedom
back.

It makes perfect book sense to me, but I don't have the experience
to say how drastic the effect is in real life. I assume it is more
pronounced in some species than in others.

--

wrote:
I
spent an awful lot of time setting up my jointer with a machinist's
square to make that happen.

I made a Stoutman gage to get my 90. Makes it easier to get BACK to 90
after I reset the width. Zero the gage to the square. Zero the face to
the gage. Done.

Bill

--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


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Stoutman wrote:

A square? Ugg. Try this for a 'perfect' 90 degrees: (By the way, I
checked my Home Depot square recently and it is NOT square. If you don't
have a decent square, forget about it.)

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/jigsfixtures.htm Last one down.

OR even better:

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/TS_aligner.htm


Hey Stoutman ... check my reply to Nailshooter. BTW, the complementary
angle thing is still good thinking even AFTER truing the face. Anything
to trivialize error is good technique, in my book.

Belt, Suspenders AND a safety pin.

Bill
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I made a Stoutman gage to get my 90. Makes it easier to get BACK to 90
after I reset the width. Zero the gage to the square. Zero the face to the
gage. Done.

Bill

Would you believe that Fine Wood Working Magazine rejected this tool for
their "Methods of Work"? I submitted it, but they gave me the finger.

It makes me laugh because I thought it was a VERY usefull idea. Yet new
gadgets for shop made paper weights will get accepted! Go figure.

Not sure what's so hard to rough mill before the final milling. I
rarely skip it, especially for joints like M&T. Saves me from
troubles I don't need.



On Apr 11, 1:19 pm, (Drew Lawson) wrote:
In article
"Swingman" writes:

If you can get the advice of letting freshly jointed boards "sit for a
couple of weeks" before gluing up, you're a better man than me.

I get it, but only because it was in one of the woodworking books I read.

The principle is that wood grows under tension, and when it is cut
the tension is (to some extent) released. The less you are changing
the board, the less the effect will be from that release. The
larger the change (ripping a wide/thick board), the more chance
that there will be shifting as the wood fibers get their freedom
back.

It makes perfect book sense to me, but I don't have the experience
to say how drastic the effect is in real life. I assume it is more
pronounced in some species than in others.

--

You replaced the bent nail! Now you've taken all the personality out of it.


"Stoutman" .@. wrote in message
...
Thanks for the great tip. I use a square to check the jointer's
squareness, but this sounds like an excellent method to employ and I
will try it on my next project.

Thanks again!


A square? Ugg. Try this for a 'perfect' 90 degrees: (By the way, I
checked my Home Depot square recently and it is NOT square. If you don't
have a decent square, forget about it.)

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/jigsfixtures.htm Last one down.

OR even better:

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/TS_aligner.htm

Stoutman wrote:
I made a Stoutman gage to get my 90. Makes it easier to get BACK to 90
after I reset the width. Zero the gage to the square. Zero the face to the
gage. Done.

Bill

Would you believe that Fine Wood Working Magazine rejected this tool for
their "Methods of Work"? I submitted it, but they gave me the finger.

It makes me laugh because I thought it was a VERY usefull idea. Yet new
gadgets for shop made paper weights will get accepted! Go figure.


Yabbut, mine has brass wear pads, three kinds of exotic hardwoods
including a jatoba base and a totally gratuitous blind dovetail. ;-)

Be careful of that finger .... there's no way of knowing where it's been.

;-)

Bill


--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


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Yabbut, mine has brass wear pads, three kinds of exotic hardwoods
including a jatoba base and a totally gratuitous blind dovetail. ;-)

Be careful of that finger .... there's no way of knowing where it's been.

;-)


This I gotta see. Can you post pictures?

You replaced the bent nail! Now you've taken all the personality out of
it.


Yep. I took to much grief over the bent nail.

Stoutman wrote:
Thanks for the great tip. I use a square to check the jointer's
squareness, but this sounds like an excellent method to employ and I
will try it on my next project.

Thanks again!


A square? Ugg. Try this for a 'perfect' 90 degrees: (By the way, I
checked my Home Depot square recently and it is NOT square. If you don't
have a decent square, forget about it.)

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/jigsfixtures.htm Last one down.

OR even better:

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/TS_aligner.htm

Hey Stoutman,
Ever consider putting a caster on the blade sharpening jig?

In the middle would be fine, but attach it a sliding dovetail to adjust
the angle. Use a slot & bolt arrangement to lock it down.

Bill




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Hey Stoutman,
Ever consider putting a caster on the blade sharpening jig?

Yes, but I haven't gotten around to doing it yet.


In the middle would be fine, but attach it a sliding dovetail to adjust
the angle. Use a slot & bolt arrangement to lock it down.

That I haven't thought of. Good suggestion!


Bill




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Stoutman wrote:

Yabbut, mine has brass wear pads, three kinds of exotic hardwoods
including a jatoba base and a totally gratuitous blind dovetail. ;-)

Be careful of that finger .... there's no way of knowing where it's been.

;-)


This I gotta see. Can you post pictures?


Well, since you insist ;-)

http://nmwoodworks.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=449

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Wow! That's cool Just a little nicer than my bent nails.

--
Stoutman
www.garagewoodworks.com

"Bill in Detroit" wrote in message
...
Stoutman wrote:

Yabbut, mine has brass wear pads, three kinds of exotic hardwoods
including a jatoba base and a totally gratuitous blind dovetail. ;-)

Be careful of that finger .... there's no way of knowing where it's
been.

;-)


This I gotta see. Can you post pictures?


Well, since you insist ;-)

http://nmwoodworks.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=449

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In article . com,
says...

The second table however, just a bit different. This one was
fashioned out of 1" thick cherry, mostly flatsawn. (Same legs, aprons
but a nice oiled finish.) I made a much smaller table and the top is
say 32"x 48". I tried to carefully joint the 3 boards I used for the
top, used biscuits again and a good glue- clamped flat. I have now
noticed two of the joints opening up just a bit- which is causing me a
bit of concern.

I simply won't use any boards wider than 5" any more. You can get lucky with
wider boards, but don't count on it.

The most effective way of preventing splitting after glue up is to finish the
whole thing with a film that slows moisture way down - like, say, several coats
of polyurethane. If the endgrain cannot absorb or lose moisture rapidly, you
will not have those splitting problems and also no buckling due to the top side
losing moisture more quickly than the bottom side (sunlight, warmth).

If you want to use oil finishes etc you have to get the timber much dry-er in
the first place, in my experience. Again, much can be done by soaking and
soaking the endgrain with the oil to slow down moisture travel.

h.t.h. -Peter


--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

Stoutman wrote:
Wow! That's cool Just a little nicer than my bent nails.

Thanks Stoutman ... one of those days when I wanted to be in the shop
but couldn't remember why. So I decided to just play around.

When you first posted about your gauge, I'm probably the guy who ragged
you about the nails. I'm glad to see that your new and revised version
has overcome that obstacle on the "Stoutman MKII" ;-)

I'm still a machinist at heart ... it's just how I was trained and how I
perceive things. So it can be a real challenge to work in a wood shop
where nothing stays put and controls are missing off the equipment.
(Okay, if a bandsaw is all that and a bag of peanuts, where the heck is
the dial to set the width of cut? Why doesn't the blade guide set itself
about .010" above the work? And why doesn't my table saw know how high
the stinking blade is? I should be able to 'zero it' and work all day
off that single setting.)

;-)

That should bee enough for two or three 'muse' threads.

Bill



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