Are you a privacy advocate? I have found a $2.00 way to turn the tables
on those who would track your cash spending habits.

It's in my shopping cart (Yeah, there's a buck in it for me ... just
about exactly ONE buck.) under the category "Subversion".

You can do this without paying me. But I earn the buck by making it
easier than talking your neighbor into the exchange and out of having
you committed.

Bill
--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


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"Bill in Detroit" wrote in message
...
Are you a privacy advocate? I have found a $2.00 way to turn the tables on
those who would track your cash spending habits.

It's in my shopping cart (Yeah, there's a buck in it for me ... just about
exactly ONE buck.) under the category "Subversion".

You can do this without paying me. But I earn the buck by making it easier
than talking your neighbor into the exchange and out of having you
committed.

Bill
--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


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Nice lathe work. Why do I care about the stores tracking my purchase
habits?? I have ONE of those discount card things and it is so beat up it
is unreadable. When I do use it the store clerk has to use the generic one
at the counter or borrow one from another customer, so no tracking of me at
any rate. If they want to track my purchase habits they can use my credit
cards any way. I have nothing to hide and if I did I would use untraceable
cash to buy those items. You need to spend more time turning and less time
worrying about subversion.

sweet sawdust wrote:
"Bill in Detroit" wrote in message
...
Are you a privacy advocate? I have found a $2.00 way to turn the
tables on those who would track your cash spending habits.

It's in my shopping cart (Yeah, there's a buck in it for me ... just
about exactly ONE buck.) under the category "Subversion".

You can do this without paying me. But I earn the buck by making it
easier than talking your neighbor into the exchange and out of
having you committed.

Bill
--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


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Tested on: 3/28/2007 5:23:21 AM
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Nice lathe work. Why do I care about the stores tracking my purchase
habits?? I have ONE of those discount card things and it is so beat
up it is unreadable. When I do use it the store clerk has to use the
generic one at the counter or borrow one from another customer, so no
tracking of me at any rate. If they want to track my purchase habits
they can use my credit cards any way. I have nothing to hide and if
I did I would use untraceable cash to buy those items. You need to
spend more time turning and less time worrying about subversion.

One of the local supermarket chains has recently introduced online
ordering. They say if you give them your card number it will pull up a
list of items you have purchased from that store.

I've doing almost all my grocery shopping there since the store opened
about 10 years ago. It came up with 3 items.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Bill in Detroit" wrote in message
...
Are you a privacy advocate? I have found a $2.00 way to turn the tables on
those who would track your cash spending habits.

It's in my shopping cart (Yeah, there's a buck in it for me ... just about
exactly ONE buck.) under the category "Subversion".

You can do this without paying me. But I earn the buck by making it easier
than talking your neighbor into the exchange and out of having you
committed.

Bill
--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


I'm confused. What are you talking about here?

"sweet sawdust" wrote in message
.. .


Nice lathe work. Why do I care about the stores tracking my purchase
habits?? I have ONE of those discount card things and it is so beat up it
is unreadable. When I do use it the store clerk has to use the generic
one at the counter or borrow one from another customer, so no tracking of
me at any rate. If they want to track my purchase habits they can use my
credit cards any way. I have nothing to hide and if I did I would use
untraceable cash to buy those items. You need to spend more time turning
and less time worrying about subversion.


Speaking of which, you cannot get in and out of most stores with out being
counted.

And while way OT, LOL. I found a new way to get the survey takers off of my
back in a hurry. When they approach or call, ask them how much they are
going to pay you for the information. The answer is almost always NOTHING.
Then ask them if they are being paid to gather this information. The answer
is almost always YES. Then ask them why they should be paid and you are not
going to be paid. That's then I hear a CLICK on the telephone.

Some stores give out cards (sort of like a credit card) with a barcode on
it. Whenever you shop in the store you can get discounts or special prices
on items if you used the card. The "Kroger Card" is a big one around here.
"Leon" wrote in message
t...

"Bill in Detroit" wrote in message
...
Are you a privacy advocate? I have found a $2.00 way to turn the tables
on those who would track your cash spending habits.

It's in my shopping cart (Yeah, there's a buck in it for me ... just
about exactly ONE buck.) under the category "Subversion".

You can do this without paying me. But I earn the buck by making it
easier than talking your neighbor into the exchange and out of having you
committed.

Bill
--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


I'm confused. What are you talking about here?

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
One of the local supermarket chains has recently introduced online
ordering. They say if you give them your card number it will pull up a
list of items you have purchased from that store.

I've doing almost all my grocery shopping there since the store opened
about 10 years ago. It came up with 3 items.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


That's the problem with most of the systems that monitor any type of
activity on a large scale, not enough man-hours to really to a good tracking
job. I've stopped worring about the government listening to my phone calls
or reading my e-mails, by the time they have gone through todays back log of
average citizens my grandkids will have grand kids. I am only talking about
the ones that have "key words" in them not the bulk of garbage the average
citizen puts out. Even with computers the amount of data that must be done
by "hand" is staggering. Each "Hit" has to be checked out and monitered so
only the ones that are really of interest get any real attention.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...


One of the local supermarket chains has recently introduced online
ordering. They say if you give them your card number it will pull up a
list of items you have purchased from that store.

I've doing almost all my grocery shopping there since the store opened
about 10 years ago. It came up with 3 items.


Geezus John - you need to broaden your dietary habits.

--

-Mike-

"sweet sawdust" wrote in message
...

That's the problem with most of the systems that monitor any type of
activity on a large scale, not enough man-hours to really to a good
tracking job.

I suspect that it is not man hours theat is the problem rather a reset of
the system changing all the counts back to "Zero".
Keeping up with what a person buys is not a problem at all. Computers have
been keeping up with multiple inventories sold to hundreds of customers
automatically for many many years.


I've stopped worring about the government listening to my phone calls
or reading my e-mails, by the time they have gone through todays back log
of average citizens my grandkids will have grand kids. I am only talking
about the ones that have "key words" in them not the bulk of garbage the
average citizen puts out. Even with computers the amount of data that
must be done by "hand" is staggering. Each "Hit" has to be checked out and
monitered so only the ones that are really of interest get any real
attention.


No kidding, why would the government want to single me out of 350,000,000
people and spend any time looking at me. We are being monitored by many
different entities ant any given point in time.
Do you use a telephone, satellite TV, cable TV, Tivo, the internet, credit
card, membership card, appear in public, buy tickets, ;~)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
sweet sawdust wrote:

One of the local supermarket chains has recently introduced online
ordering. They say if you give them your card number it will pull up a
list of items you have purchased from that store.

I've doing almost all my grocery shopping there since the store opened
about 10 years ago. It came up with 3 items.

If they are like the ones in Houston that tried that several years back, the
company that provided that service for the grocery store was often dropped
and changed for another and the history was lost with each vendor change.

"sweet sawdust" wrote in message
...
Some stores give out cards (sort of like a credit card) with a barcode on
it. Whenever you shop in the store you can get discounts or special
prices on items if you used the card. The "Kroger Card" is a big one
around here.


Ah, "Key Cards" I have one for Spec's Liquor, Kroger, Randall's, CVS
Pharmacy, Borders Book Store, Sam's Club, Radio Shack, Block Buster,
Hollywood Video, and yes, Craftsman, The Tool Club, PetSmart, and that's it.
LOL. I almost need a wallet for all these cards alone. Well worth carrying
and using as immediate discounts ring up on the register when they are used
at the local grocery stores. I really don't care if they remember how good
of a customer that I am, it saves me lots of money every time I pull out the
card.

In article , "Mike Marlow" wrote:

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...


One of the local supermarket chains has recently introduced online
ordering. They say if you give them your card number it will pull up a
list of items you have purchased from that store.

I've doing almost all my grocery shopping there since the store opened
about 10 years ago. It came up with 3 items.


Geezus John - you need to broaden your dietary habits.

Three items: pizza, beer, potato chips -- sounds like a winner to me.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , "Leon" wrote:

And while way OT, LOL. I found a new way to get the survey takers off of my
back in a hurry. When they approach or call, ask them how much they are
going to pay you for the information. The answer is almost always NOTHING.
Then ask them if they are being paid to gather this information. The answer
is almost always YES. Then ask them why they should be paid and you are not
going to be paid. That's then I hear a CLICK on the telephone.

I have an even faster, easier approach: I just hang up.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Leon" wrote in message
t...

"sweet sawdust" wrote in message
.. .


Nice lathe work. Why do I care about the stores tracking my purchase
habits?? I have ONE of those discount card things and it is so beat up
it is unreadable. When I do use it the store clerk has to use the
generic one at the counter or borrow one from another customer, so no
tracking of me at any rate. If they want to track my purchase habits
they can use my credit cards any way. I have nothing to hide and if I
did I would use untraceable cash to buy those items. You need to spend
more time turning and less time worrying about subversion.


Speaking of which, you cannot get in and out of most stores with out being
counted.

And while way OT, LOL. I found a new way to get the survey takers off of
my back in a hurry. When they approach or call, ask them how much they
are going to pay you for the information. The answer is almost always
NOTHING. Then ask them if they are being paid to gather this information.
The answer is almost always YES. Then ask them why they should be paid
and you are not going to be paid. That's then I hear a CLICK on the
telephone.

I like that!!!!! Mind if I copy???

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 08:41:28 -0500, "sweet sawdust"
wrote:

Some stores give out cards (sort of like a credit card) with a barcode on
it. Whenever you shop in the store you can get discounts or special prices
on items if you used the card. The "Kroger Card" is a big one around here.
"Leon" wrote in message
et...
[snip]

The Kroger card is worth carrying for the $0.03/gallon discount it
gives on gasoline - making it about $0.02/gallon cheaper than the
RaceTrac a half-mile (the opposite direction of most of my trips) down
the road.


retirement = fixed income = any way to find tool money

John

Leon wrote:


Ah, "Key Cards" I have one for Spec's Liquor, Kroger, Randall's, CVS
Pharmacy, Borders Book Store, Sam's Club, Radio Shack, Block Buster,
Hollywood Video, and yes, Craftsman, The Tool Club, PetSmart, and that's it.
LOL. I almost need a wallet for all these cards alone. Well worth carrying
and using as immediate discounts ring up on the register when they are used
at the local grocery stores. I really don't care if they remember how good
of a customer that I am, it saves me lots of money every time I pull out the
card.

You need to care.

As was pointed out in an earlier posting, the data collected isn't owned
by the store collecting it. To them, it's just another income stream.
They are paid for your data. So your shopping habits go into one big pot
called "Leon's Personal Profile" which tracks all of your purchases at:

Spec's Liquor (doesn't own the data)
Kroger (doesn't own the data)
Randall's (doesn't own the data)
CVS Pharmacy (doesn't own the data)
Borders Book Store (doesn't own the data)
Sam's Club (doesn't own the data)
Radio Shack (doesn't own the data)
Block Buster (doesn't own the data)
Hollywood Video (doesn't own the data)
Craftsman (doesn't own the data)
The Tool Club (doesn't own the data)
PetSmart (doesn't own the data)

So, if these stores don't own the data, who does?

In effect, the stores are running a continuous sale to you, which is
subsidized by another company willing to pay for your data. The store
gets your immediate loyalty while keeping their data processing costs
down. But, nobody would be willing to pay to collect that data unless
they could sell it for a profit. Nobody would buy that data unless they
also knew how to turn a buck off it.

That information can be used to manipulate you. That's why the people in
marketing can afford nice cars ... their mumbo-jumbo works. So the final
value comes from - tada! - your wallet.

In the end, you pay other people to use your information against you.

What I have suggested is a way to continue getting the 'discount'
without painting a target on your own chest. Even swapping out only the
national chain customer coding tags (since you'd never hold still for
having a bar code tattooed to your wrist or an RFID implanted, they just
get you to carry the bar code around in your pocket for them) is enough
to throw sand in the gears.

Lots of folks on this list fought in at least one war to maintain their
freedom. Do you think the war is over?

Bill

--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


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On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 15:57:28 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , "Leon" wrote:

And while way OT, LOL. I found a new way to get the survey takers off of my
back in a hurry. When they approach or call, ask them how much they are
going to pay you for the information. The answer is almost always NOTHING.
Then ask them if they are being paid to gather this information. The answer
is almost always YES. Then ask them why they should be paid and you are not
going to be paid. That's then I hear a CLICK on the telephone.

I have an even faster, easier approach: I just hang up.

I do after getting the manager and explaining that they just spent
$500 of the companies money by calling me.

Mark
(sixoneeight) = 618

In article , John wrote:

The Kroger card is worth carrying for the $0.03/gallon discount it
gives on gasoline - making it about $0.02/gallon cheaper than the
RaceTrac a half-mile (the opposite direction of most of my trips) down
the road.

Three cents? Here in Indianapolis, the card gets you *ten* cents a gallon.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 17:34:42 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , John wrote:

The Kroger card is worth carrying for the $0.03/gallon discount it
gives on gasoline - making it about $0.02/gallon cheaper than the
RaceTrac a half-mile (the opposite direction of most of my trips) down
the road.

Three cents? Here in Indianapolis, the card gets you *ten* cents a gallon.

After the purchase of a $100 in groceries right? Same here in Southern
Illinois, but 3 cent per gallon discount generally.

Mark

"Bill in Detroit" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

You need to care.

I know how it works, I have carried some of those cards for 10 + years.
For me, I have seen nothing br discounts come from them. I am not quite so
paranoid about these cards as perhaps you should be since you are be
photographed every time you go into almost any store.

"John" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 08:41:28 -0500, "sweet sawdust"
wrote:

Some stores give out cards (sort of like a credit card) with a barcode on
it. Whenever you shop in the store you can get discounts or special
prices
on items if you used the card. The "Kroger Card" is a big one around
here.
"Leon" wrote in message
. net...
[snip]

The Kroger card is worth carrying for the $0.03/gallon discount it
gives on gasoline - making it about $0.02/gallon cheaper than the
RaceTrac a half-mile (the opposite direction of most of my trips) down
the road.

But is their gas worth more frequent maintenance requirements because the
gasoline is probably not as good as the stuff that is 3% more expensive?

Somebody wrote:

Some stores give out cards (sort of like a credit card) with a
barcode on
it. Whenever you shop in the store you can get discounts or special
prices
on items if you used the card. The "Kroger Card" is a big one around
here.

Herein SoCal, Kroger owns Ralphs which issues a Ralphs card, but it
makes no difference.

Those cards are all tied to your phone number.

Mine are all tied to a business phone number.

If you are paranoid, make up a phone number.

Threw the cards away a long time ago.

Works for me.

Lew

Swingman wrote:

A frequent "deal" for 'cardholders' at a close by Randall's is a
"six pack"
of my favorite $10/bottle (same price at all stores) wine for
$6/bottle ...
enough "savings" on the transaction to buy a couple of steaks to go
along
with same.

Hasn't "two buck chuck" found it's way to your part of the world yet?

Not a consumer of the grape, but the 99 cent stores are selling wine
which I'm told is acceptable.

The Merlot makes a pretty good marinade.

Lew

Swingman wrote:

Heard about it, but haven't seen/tried it.

Check it out, bottled under the Charles Shaw label.

The guy who bottles it is a total **** disturber, which is why he
sells it for $2 retail.

Loves to rattle the cage of the rest of the California vineyards.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message

Herein SoCal, Kroger owns Ralphs which issues a Ralphs card, but it
makes no difference.

Those cards are all tied to your phone number.

Mine are all tied to a business phone number.

If you are paranoid, make up a phone number.

Threw the cards away a long time ago.

Works for me.

I always use mine, and have for years with no apparent detrimental effect to
either me, my privacy, or finances ... unless I'm really missing something?

A frequent "deal" for 'cardholders' at a close by Randall's is a "six pack"
of my favorite $10/bottle (same price at all stores) wine for $6/bottle ...
enough "savings" on the transaction to buy a couple of steaks to go along
with same.

It's even better when they, in their corporate stupidity, mistakenly and
_repeatedly_ include a $17/bottle wine in the display for the same
"$6/bottle cardholder special"!

I think SWMBO single-handedly caused a dip in Safeway (owner of Randall's)
stock prices the last time they did that ... can you say "rainchecks"?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07

In article , simplfy markem, (sixoneeight)@hotmail wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 17:34:42 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , John
wrote:

The Kroger card is worth carrying for the $0.03/gallon discount it
gives on gasoline - making it about $0.02/gallon cheaper than the
RaceTrac a half-mile (the opposite direction of most of my trips) down
the road.

Three cents? Here in Indianapolis, the card gets you *ten* cents a gallon.

After the purchase of a $100 in groceries right? Same here in Southern
Illinois, but 3 cent per gallon discount generally.

Yep.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article .net, Lew Hodgett wrote:

Hasn't "two buck chuck" found it's way to your part of the world yet?

Pah. That stuff's overpriced.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message

Hasn't "two buck chuck" found it's way to your part of the world yet?

Heard about it, but haven't seen/tried it.

Not a consumer of the grape, but the 99 cent stores are selling wine
which I'm told is acceptable.

Acceptable to who? ... no registered coonass is that declasse' as to partake
of 99 cent wine, cher!!

The Merlot makes a pretty good marinade.

Me, I like Pinot Noir to chase a steak and mushrooms marinated in Merlot.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07

"Leon" writes:

"John" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 08:41:28 -0500, "sweet sawdust"
wrote:

Some stores give out cards (sort of like a credit card) with a barcode on
it. Whenever you shop in the store you can get discounts or special
prices
on items if you used the card. The "Kroger Card" is a big one around
here.
"Leon" wrote in message
.net...
[snip]

The Kroger card is worth carrying for the $0.03/gallon discount it
gives on gasoline - making it about $0.02/gallon cheaper than the
RaceTrac a half-mile (the opposite direction of most of my trips) down
the road.

But is their gas worth more frequent maintenance requirements because the
gasoline is probably not as good as the stuff that is 3% more expensive?


What leads you to believe that the gasoline is inferior to the $0.03USD
more expensive gas? (Not 3%, note, but 3 cents more).

All the discount chains get their fuel from one of the major refineries.

It's all the same stuff, passes through the same pipelines to get to the
terminals, then gets offloaded onto trucks for retail delivery.

scott

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
news

Hasn't "two buck chuck" found it's way to your part of the world yet?

Not a consumer of the grape, but the 99 cent stores are selling wine which
I'm told is acceptable.

The Merlot makes a pretty good marinade.


BUT CAN YOU DIP YOUR POPSICLE in it?????

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
t...

What leads you to believe that the gasoline is inferior to the $0.03USD
more expensive gas? (Not 3%, note, but 3 cents more).


First off my referal to gasoline that is 3% more expensice refers to Name
Brand gasoline.

Actually the better name brandstuff runs about 3% or 8 to 10 centh more than
the no name brand. What leads me to believe that the cheap stuff is
inferior? 20 years in the automotive business. While the gasoline for the
most part starts out from the same hole in the ground many automobile
manufacutrers are strongly suggesting that owners use a upper tier gasoline.
IIRC Shell, Exxon and Chevron sell upper tier fuel. Many places sell
gasoline and better ones sell gasoline with additives and better detergents
that help to keep the injectors and carburetors clean.

For those that have worked in the service departments of a car dealership,
this is not news.

All the discount chains get their fuel from one of the major refineries.

It's all the same stuff, passes through the same pipelines to get to the
terminals, then gets offloaded onto trucks for retail delivery.


The trip is a little more complex. It's not "all" the same stuff.

Take a look here to learn a bit about the Top Tier gasolines.
http://www.toptiergas.com/



Oddly, back in the early 80's the local Texaco refinery was putting an
additive in the gasoline that actually ate the galvanized plating off of the
insides of the tanks. The plating flaked off and clogged tank socks, fuel
filters, needle and seats in carburetors, injector nozzles and created a
huge head ache for their customers buying Texaco gasoline. Our dealership
alone probably cleaned out and billed hundreds of owners and they were
promptly reimbursed for the repairs by Texaco. Texaco issued letters to the
customers and dealerships regarding this matter. Only Texaco gas stations
had that brief problem in the Houston area.

I have quite a few of these cards and they save me some bucks.
I signed up for them using a bogus name, address, etc.
Different name every time.
Track away. I don't care.

Art

"Bill in Detroit" wrote in message
...
Are you a privacy advocate? I have found a $2.00 way to turn the tables
on those who would track your cash spending habits.

It's in my shopping cart (Yeah, there's a buck in it for me ... just
about exactly ONE buck.) under the category "Subversion".

You can do this without paying me. But I earn the buck by making it
easier than talking your neighbor into the exchange and out of having
you committed.

Bill

"Leon" writes:

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
et...

What leads you to believe that the gasoline is inferior to the $0.03USD
more expensive gas? (Not 3%, note, but 3 cents more).


First off my referal to gasoline that is 3% more expensice refers to Name
Brand gasoline.

In california the price of gasoline is dependent upon neighborhood, not
vendor.


Actually the better name brandstuff runs about 3% or 8 to 10 centh more than

Clearly not true in California.

the no name brand. What leads me to believe that the cheap stuff is
inferior? 20 years in the automotive business. While the gasoline for the

I'm sorry, but anecdotal information is not sufficient. How about some citations
from peer-reviewed publications that confirm your thesis?

[snip]

For those that have worked in the service departments of a car dealership,
this is not news.

Of course not. Most car manufacturers have co-marketing agreements with
the oil companies such that they'll favor one brand over another. There's
nothing there but marketing.


All the discount chains get their fuel from one of the major refineries.

It's all the same stuff, passes through the same pipelines to get to the
terminals, then gets offloaded onto trucks for retail delivery.


The trip is a little more complex. It's not "all" the same stuff.

Cite please? Note that the gasoline from the refinery is pumped via
pipelines to the distribution terminals. Both name-brand and off-brand
retailers are served from the same tank farm using product transported by
the same pipeline.


Take a look here to learn a bit about the Top Tier gasolines.
http://www.toptiergas.com/

I'm sorry, but a trade organization for the so-called top-tier
POL vendors isn't my idea of unbiased information.



Oddly, back in the early 80's the local Texaco refinery was putting an
additive in the gasoline that actually ate the galvanized plating off of the

Nothing odd about it. Everyone makes mistakes. I'm not sure how this story
has anything to do with the assertion that non-name-brand gasoline (which _is_
produced at the same refineries as the name-brand gasoline) is worse
than name-brand.

scott

"Swingman" wrote in message
...


BUT CAN YOU DIP YOUR POPSICLE in it?????

Excellent point ... to not be able to do so would be a show stopper!


I bet Lew had not even considered that. :~)

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
et...

In california the price of gasoline is dependent upon neighborhood, not
vendor.

Same in Houston TX however within the neighborhood the different brand
stations from top end to bottom end will still show about a 3% price
difference. In some neighborhoods the local grocery store gas is more
expensive than Chevron is in my neighborhood. It's all relative.

Actually the better name brandstuff runs about 3% or 8 to 10 centh more
than

Clearly not true in California.

the no name brand. What leads me to believe that the cheap stuff is
inferior? 20 years in the automotive business. While the gasoline for
the

I'm sorry, but anecdotal information is not sufficient. How about some
citations
from peer-reviewed publications that confirm your thesis?

I really have no need to prove anything to you, check the link I posted and
gather that information for your self. Infact, I dare you to look up
information all by your self so that you will not claim Bias.


For those that have worked in the service departments of a car dealership,
this is not news.

Of course not. Most car manufacturers have co-marketing agreements with
the oil companies such that they'll favor one brand over another.
There's
nothing there but marketing.

It's all a conspiracy right. I'm sorry but you have clearly demonstrated
that you do not know enough to know that you don't know.




The trip is a little more complex. It's not "all" the same stuff.

Cite please? Note that the gasoline from the refinery is pumped via
pipelines to the distribution terminals. Both name-brand and off-brand
retailers are served from the same tank farm using product transported by
the same pipeline.


Ok, I give up. I provided proof, My Word and experience. You can go on
believing what you want.



Take a look here to learn a bit about the Top Tier gasolines.
http://www.toptiergas.com/

I'm sorry, but a trade organization for the so-called top-tier
POL vendors isn't my idea of unbiased information.



Oddly, back in the early 80's the local Texaco refinery was putting an
additive in the gasoline that actually ate the galvanized plating off of
the

Nothing odd about it. Everyone makes mistakes. I'm not sure how this
story
has anything to do with the assertion that non-name-brand gasoline (which
_is_
produced at the same refineries as the name-brand gasoline) is worse
than name-brand.

I thought I could simply lead you to the water. Texaco was the only one
having that gasoline problem, If all the gasoline is the same as you say,
all stations would have been having problems.

Nevermind, go on about your business.

Somebody wrote:

All the discount chains get their fuel from one of the major
refineries.

Hate to burst anybodies bubble but as long as the gasoline of a
designated grade meets the (R+M)/2 spec, it's the same stuff.

Were are dealing with a price sensitive commodity here.

BTW, try to find a test stand that can run the (R+M)/2 test.

The one I used was on it's last legs, and that was almost 50 years ago.

Lew

Leon wrote:


I bet Lew had not even considered that. :~)

If it comes from the grape, it's rot gut, IMHO.

Now if you want to talk about single malt or good beer, that's another
matter.

Lew

"Leon" wrote in message

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message

Hasn't "two buck chuck" found it's way to your part of the world yet?

Not a consumer of the grape, but the 99 cent stores are selling wine
which
I'm told is acceptable.

The Merlot makes a pretty good marinade.


BUT CAN YOU DIP YOUR POPSICLE in it?????

Excellent point ... to not be able to do so would be a show stopper!

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"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message

I'm sorry, but anecdotal information is not sufficient. How about some
citations
from peer-reviewed publications that confirm your thesis?


Cite please? Note that the gasoline from the refinery is pumped via
pipelines to the distribution terminals. Both name-brand and off-brand
retailers are served from the same tank farm using product transported by
the same pipeline.

To believe that all gas is equal in quality (not "grade") at the time of
introduction to your tank is to be naive ...and the longer you use the
inferior quality (not "grade"), the fewer "cites" are needed to prove that
point.

Gas that is sold at the ex Texaco station, with the old Texaco sign covered
with a tarp, for 25 cents a gallon less than the price at the Shell station
across the street, is more not the same gas, guaranteed ... if anyone really
believes that, I 've got some swap land for sale they may be interested in.

It's what happens down market that determines the difference. Many different
additives, as well as fuel preservatives, and in differing proportions, are
added by various parties at various points on the way to the gas pump.
Couple that with the fact that gas deteroriates with storage and the longer
the storage, generally the more fuel preservatives must be added to keep it
useful as engine fuel, and the higher the incident of cross or water
contamination.

Lower priced gas on the market at independent, no name stations may well
have been stored much longer, is much more likely to have fewer detergents
and deposit control additives, making for inferior quality, may even be
close to the end of useful life, cross contaminated with other gases and/or
water and the preservative content may be reaching a point to make it
unmarketable, even though it may at one point was "served from the same tank
farm".

AAMOF, after the hurricanes a couple of years ago, the government looked the
other way while much of the above was done, on purpose, to keep the prices
down.

There is good gas, inferior gas, and bad gas ... one tank of the latter is
all you ever need to prove that without the need for "peer reviewed
publications" and "cites".

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"Swingman" writes:

I always use mine, and have for years with no apparent detrimental effect to
either me, my privacy, or finances ... unless I'm really missing something?

They like to know how to target ads to users. You might get flyers in the mail
that fit a profile of shoppers like you.

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