Hi folks,

I'm using a General mortising machine and I'm wondering if this is what I
should be getting
as a mortise?

I've adjusted the chisel and bit with the .40c method and tried a few
variations but I still end up with that little collar
at the bottom of the mortise.

I've sharpened the chisel using the Lee Valley cone sharpeners, I've gently
tuned up the bit so that it is sharp.

http://i13.tinypic.com/2z7pmab.jpg


Anyone have some suggestions as to what I might try to correct this?

I hope the picture is of sufficient detail.

Thanks for your time,

David.

"David" cosmosatnointerbaunspamdotcom wrote in message
I've adjusted the chisel and bit with the .40c method and tried a few
variations but I still end up with that little collar
at the bottom of the mortise.

The purpose of the tenon is to hide that.

Look at the profile of the chisel and bit and you will realize it is not
going to be a flat bottom.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
t...

"David" cosmosatnointerbaunspamdotcom wrote in message
I've adjusted the chisel and bit with the .40c method and tried a few
variations but I still end up with that little collar
at the bottom of the mortise.

The purpose of the tenon is to hide that.

Look at the profile of the chisel and bit and you will realize it is not
going to be a flat bottom.


Thanks Ed for your reply.

The collar I was trying to describe is on the outer edge of the mortise not
the center, it's the thin ring (collar) on the
outer edge that concerns me.

These 1/2" mortises are to receive 1/2" square metal spindles which will not
seat on the bottom of the mortise because of this ring.

I didn't expect to have a flat bottom but I expected that if I drilled a
3/8"- 1/2" mortise I would be able to sink them that far.

From the picture I posted, is this what a mortise machine mortise is
supposed to look like, thin ring (collar) and all?

David.

David wrote:

From the picture I posted, is this what a mortise machine mortise is
supposed to look like, thin ring (collar) and all?

Post higher res pictures of the mortise and the bit setup from the
side.

R

Here are some more pics.

Mortise & Bit Set up

http://i18.tinypic.com/4if7dzn.jpg

Mortise HiRes

http://i16.tinypic.com/2ms1303.jpg

I 'Arrowed' the ring (collar) I'm trying to describe.

I hope this shows the problem better.

Thank you,

David.


"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
David wrote:

From the picture I posted, is this what a mortise machine mortise is
supposed to look like, thin ring (collar) and all?

Post higher res pictures of the mortise and the bit setup from the
side.

R

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 01:23:52 -0600, "David"
cosmosatnointerbaunspamdotcom wrote:




Looks OK to me.

Yes, that is normal. Due to the construction of the bit, there is no way it
can remove that.

"David" cosmosatnointerbaunspamdotcom wrote in message
...
Here are some more pics.

Mortise & Bit Set up

http://i18.tinypic.com/4if7dzn.jpg

Mortise HiRes

http://i16.tinypic.com/2ms1303.jpg

I 'Arrowed' the ring (collar) I'm trying to describe.

I hope this shows the problem better.

Thank you,

David.


"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
David wrote:

From the picture I posted, is this what a mortise machine mortise is
supposed to look like, thin ring (collar) and all?

Post higher res pictures of the mortise and the bit setup from the
side.

R

Looks normal.

"David" cosmosatnointerbaunspamdotcom wrote in message
...

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
t...

"David" cosmosatnointerbaunspamdotcom wrote in message
I've adjusted the chisel and bit with the .40c method and tried a few
variations but I still end up with that little collar
at the bottom of the mortise.

The purpose of the tenon is to hide that.

Look at the profile of the chisel and bit and you will realize it is not
going to be a flat bottom.


Thanks Ed for your reply.

The collar I was trying to describe is on the outer edge of the mortise
not
the center, it's the thin ring (collar) on the
outer edge that concerns me.

These 1/2" mortises are to receive 1/2" square metal spindles which will
not
seat on the bottom of the mortise because of this ring.

I didn't expect to have a flat bottom but I expected that if I drilled a
3/8"- 1/2" mortise I would be able to sink them that far.

From the picture I posted, is this what a mortise machine mortise is
supposed to look like, thin ring (collar) and all?

David.

"David" cosmosatnointerbaunspamdotcom wrote in message

These 1/2" mortises are to receive 1/2" square metal spindles which will
not seat on the bottom of the mortise because of this ring.

OK, that is a slightly different appliction than the normal morise and tenon
construction. Generally, the hole is deep enough that there is a bit of
clearance and the holding is on the sides of hte joint. In your case, you
either have to clean them out or go a little deeper if the fit is that
precise.



I didn't expect to have a flat bottom but I expected that if I drilled a
3/8"- 1/2" mortise I would be able to sink them that far.

From the picture I posted, is this what a mortise machine mortise is
supposed to look like, thin ring (collar) and all?

The setup is perfectly normal. You'll have to adjust the stroke for your
application if it is that critical. With wood, it is not. The construction
of the bit and chisel won't allow you to get much better than what you have,
but some playing around may reduce, but not eliminate, the collar.

On Mar 17, 9:36 am, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"David" cosmosatnointerbaunspamdotcom wrote in message

These 1/2" mortises are to receive 1/2" square metal spindles which will
not seat on the bottom of the mortise because of this ring.

OK, that is a slightly different appliction than the normal morise and tenon
construction. Generally, the hole is deep enough that there is a bit of
clearance and the holding is on the sides of hte joint. In your case, you
either have to clean them out or go a little deeper if the fit is that
precise.



I didn't expect to have a flat bottom but I expected that if I drilled a
3/8"- 1/2" mortise I would be able to sink them that far.

From the picture I posted, is this what a mortise machine mortise is
supposed to look like, thin ring (collar) and all?

The setup is perfectly normal. You'll have to adjust the stroke for your
application if it is that critical. With wood, it is not. The construction
of the bit and chisel won't allow you to get much better than what you have,
but some playing around may reduce, but not eliminate, the collar.

Another trick you might consider is routing out the bottom of the
mortise using an undersized pattern cutting bit with a top mounted
bearing or straight flute with a collar. Plunge the bit into the
mortise using the mortise itself as your pattern. This will ensure
that you will not change the X-Y dimensions. You will get a flat
bottom at a precise depth. The only thing to clean will be small
pieces in the corners will are easily lifted with a chisel. I'm not
sure how deep the mortise is but you can probably find a bit with the
appropriate distance between the bottom of the bit and the bearing. Or
use a collar if you have one. Of course, if you don't need square
corners on the mortise you can skip the morticer and go right to the
router.

Paul

It looks normal for a one hit mortise. Typically Mortises are
elongated so when you start doing slightly overlapping cuts it cleans
out much of that and it's not that noticable.

You could pretty easily chisle that out. Make an X at the bottom with
the right sized chisel then chisle down the edges with a chisle equal
width to the sides. Light taps and lever it and it will pop out.

On Mar 16, 8:23 pm, "David" cosmosatnointerbaunspamdotcom wrote:
Hi folks,

I'm using a General mortising machine and I'm wondering if this is what I
should be getting
as a mortise?

I've adjusted the chisel and bit with the .40c method and tried a few
variations but I still end up with that little collar
at the bottom of the mortise.

I've sharpened the chisel using the Lee Valley cone sharpeners, I've gently
tuned up the bit so that it is sharp.

http://i13.tinypic.com/2z7pmab.jpg

Anyone have some suggestions as to what I might try to correct this?

I hope the picture is of sufficient detail.

Thanks for your time,

David.

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
oups.com...
It looks normal for a one hit mortise. Typically Mortises are
elongated so when you start doing slightly overlapping cuts it cleans
out much of that and it's not that noticable.


Thanks for the input.

The center round "knobby" piece is not a concern.

It's the thin ring on the edge of the mortise that stands proud of that.
I posted some more pics and pointed it out with an arrow.

I was hoping it was a chisel and bit adjustment problem as I'm not to keen
on chiseling
100+ of the suckers to get the spindles to fit down in the mortise the
required depth.

Thank you,

David.

"David" wrote in message

Anyone have some suggestions as to what I might try to correct this?

Why do you think that it needs correction?

Chisel it out if you wish, but it is perfectly fine like it is. You'll find
that a mortise should be a little deeper than the tenon length in any event.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07

A little logical thinking
Looking at the shape of the botom of the bit/chisel combo what do I see?
Mirror image of bottom of hole

Are both bit and chisel are cutting clean?
Yes, guess that means both are sharp.

Which part of the bit/chisel combo is cutting 'ring'?
Its happening around the edge of the bit.

So how can I reduce it?
Reducing the bit clearence will reduce ring

Can I expect to get a perfect square, flat surface fron a circular motion?
Round pegs do not fit round holes.

You have 2 options
Drill mortice a little deeper and allow tenon to rest on ring.
Or
chisel out botom of mortice by hand.

"David" cosmosatnointerbaunspamdotcom wrote in message
...
Hi folks,

I'm using a General mortising machine and I'm wondering if this is what I
should be getting
as a mortise?

I've adjusted the chisel and bit with the .40c method and tried a few
variations but I still end up with that little collar
at the bottom of the mortise.

I've sharpened the chisel using the Lee Valley cone sharpeners, I've
gently tuned up the bit so that it is sharp.

http://i13.tinypic.com/2z7pmab.jpg


Anyone have some suggestions as to what I might try to correct this?

I hope the picture is of sufficient detail.

Thanks for your time,

David.

That is normal. Maybe you can hit it again with a brad point or forstner bit
to get rid of the collar.
Ted

"David" cosmosatnointerbaunspamdotcom wrote in message
...
Hi folks,

I'm using a General mortising machine and I'm wondering if this is what I
should be getting
as a mortise?

I've adjusted the chisel and bit with the .40c method and tried a few
variations but I still end up with that little collar
at the bottom of the mortise.

I've sharpened the chisel using the Lee Valley cone sharpeners, I've
gently tuned up the bit so that it is sharp.

http://i13.tinypic.com/2z7pmab.jpg


Anyone have some suggestions as to what I might try to correct this?

I hope the picture is of sufficient detail.

Thanks for your time,

David.

"Bigpole" wrote in message
...
That is normal. Maybe you can hit it again with a brad point or forstner
bit
to get rid of the collar.
Ted


The bit would have to be the same width as the distance between opposite
corners to get rid of the shoulder. Then you world have a larger round hole
instead of a square one.

"Leon" wrote in message
t...

"Bigpole" wrote in message
...
That is normal. Maybe you can hit it again with a brad point or forstner
bit
to get rid of the collar.
Ted


The bit would have to be the same width as the distance between opposite
corners to get rid of the shoulder. Then you world have a larger round
hole instead of a square one.


Yeah, but then you could just square up the corners with a chisel! tongue
in the vacinity of the cheek

--
Stoutman
www.garagewoodworks.com

"Stoutman" .@. wrote in message
...



Yeah, but then you could just square up the corners with a chisel!
tongue in the vacinity of the cheek


I did not think of that.... ;~)

"David" cosmosatnointerbaunspamdotcom wrote in message
...
Hi folks,

I'm using a General mortising machine and I'm wondering if this is what I
should be getting
as a mortise?

I've adjusted the chisel and bit with the .40c method and tried a few
variations but I still end up with that little collar
at the bottom of the mortise.

I've sharpened the chisel using the Lee Valley cone sharpeners, I've
gently tuned up the bit so that it is sharp.

http://i13.tinypic.com/2z7pmab.jpg


Anyone have some suggestions as to what I might try to correct this?

I hope the picture is of sufficient detail.

Thanks for your time,

David.



That is normal. It also leaves a bit of room at the bottom for the glue to
collect in. Because of the chisel design you will be hard pressed to not
have the shoulder,

On Mar 16, 11:23 pm, "David" cosmosatnointerbaunspamdotcom wrote:
Hi folks,

I'm using a General mortising machine and I'm wondering if this is what I
should be getting
as a mortise?

I've adjusted the chisel and bit with the .40c method and tried a few
variations but I still end up with that little collar
at the bottom of the mortise.

I've sharpened the chisel using the Lee Valley cone sharpeners, I've gently
tuned up the bit so that it is sharp.

http://i13.tinypic.com/2z7pmab.jpg

Anyone have some suggestions as to what I might try to correct this?

You could make a punch from a 6" piece of square steel and hammer the
bottom of the mortise flat, or you could just leave it as is for glue
space.

Thank you all for your responses.

I have never used a mortise machine before and didn't know what to exprect.

I'll be using a sharp chisel to clean the ring out of each mortise.

David.

One more (maybe crazy) idea.

If you really need a flat bottom, then drill the mortise 3/8" extra
deep. Mill some stock to 1/2" square. Cut 3/8 wafers and pound them
into the mortise with a dao o glue underneath.

On Mar 17, 9:55 am, "David" cosmosatnointerbaunspamdotcom wrote:
Thank you all for your responses.

I have never used a mortise machine before and didn't know what to exprect.

I'll be using a sharp chisel to clean the ring out of each mortise.

David.

The flat bottom isn't a concern, the mortises are to receive 1/2" square metal spindles (hollow) and the ring
that is left after
drilling the mortise prevents the spindle from being fully inserted. (This a stair rail project)

The shoe (bottom rail) thickness is only 5/8" so I don't have a lot of room to play with.

The ring that is the problem would also prevent the 1/2" slugs from being pounded to the required depth.

The general consensus here is that the mortises are correct and while time consuming, chiseling out the
offending ring
seems to be the solution.

Thanks for your response,

David.

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
oups.com...
One more (maybe crazy) idea.

If you really need a flat bottom, then drill the mortise 3/8" extra
deep. Mill some stock to 1/2" square. Cut 3/8 wafers and pound them
into the mortise with a dao o glue underneath.

On Mar 17, 9:55 am, "David" cosmosatnointerbaunspamdotcom wrote:
Thank you all for your responses.

I have never used a mortise machine before and didn't know what to exprect.

I'll be using a sharp chisel to clean the ring out of each mortise.

David.

On Mar 17, 4:29 pm, "David" cosmosatnointerbaunspamdotcom wrote:
The flat bottom isn't a concern, the mortises are to receive 1/2" square metal spindles (hollow) and the ring
that is left after
drilling the mortise prevents the spindle from being fully inserted. (This a stair rail project)

The shoe (bottom rail) thickness is only 5/8" so I don't have a lot of room to play with.

The ring that is the problem would also prevent the 1/2" slugs from being pounded to the required depth.

The general consensus here is that the mortises are correct and while time consuming, chiseling out the
offending ring
seems to be the solution.

Thanks for your response,

David.

"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message

oups.com...

One more (maybe crazy) idea.

If you really need a flat bottom, then drill the mortise 3/8" extra
deep. Mill some stock to 1/2" square. Cut 3/8 wafers and pound them
into the mortise with a dao o glue underneath.

On Mar 17, 9:55 am, "David" cosmosatnointerbaunspamdotcom wrote:
Thank you all for your responses.

I have never used a mortise machine before and didn't know what to exprect.

I'll be using a sharp chisel to clean the ring out of each mortise.

It'd be far faster to cut the spindles. Since they're hollow,
presumably aluminum or thinwall steel, it's no big deal.

R