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If this is global warming...
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message ... Somebody wrote: Sure thing, Bubba ... barely 100 years of record keeping out of, give or take a few millions, and only the last 70 really counting for the supposed culprit, manmade greenhouse gases, is a what I would call a real valid, statistical, and historical, trend ... albeit a little short on the "historical", but what the hell. Only problem with the above is that it is not valid. Historical data is determined by core samples, not temperature records. Result is that historical trends being developed are perhaps more accurate than we would like to admit. The sooner man realizes that the world is a closed system, the better. As the old saying goes, "What comes around, goes around." Huh?? Better watch those epoxy fumes, Lew. ;) -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 2/07/07 |
If this is global warming...
Swingman wrote:
Huh?? Better watch those epoxy fumes, Lew. ;) Think about it. The world is a finite place. There is a finite amount of resource, water, soil, air, etc. Every action has a reaction. If man continues to screw up the world, he has nobody but himself to blame. BTW, laminating epoxy contains no VOCs. Sent an AQMD inspector muttering under his breath out of the boat yard because he lost an opportunity to fine me. The expression on his face said it all when he saw the epoxy drum. Lew |
If this is global warming...
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 19:33:29 -0800, jo4hn wrote:
Joe Bleau wrote: On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:01:25 -0800, jo4hn wrote: OK people. Think climate change rather than increases in temp wherever you might be. Some places may experience nastier or better weather but the overall change is an increase in temp with polar caps and glaciers melting. It's been happening for years now. Not gonna get better. Drive hybrid, save a polar bear. luck to all, jo4hn It has been happening for years, for eons even. Millions of years before man ever appeared the earth was warming and cooling. Drive SUVs and remember to save a tree you might think about wiping with spotted owls. Joe Well, ignoring the cutsie bs about spotted owls and all, keep in mind that Antarctic ice cores show that the current concentration of carbon dioxide in the air is the highest that it has ever been (.3 million years). The number of REFERREED scientific papers that scoff at man aided CO2 is zero. Enough. To your latter point, given that the referrees for papers are all global warming adherents, there's not a lot of hope for papers demonstrating conclusions contrary to their faith. To the former point, I've seen other conclusions, but am too tired to go digging for em right now. It's not worth it anyway, it will only demonstrate another theorem, "for every PhD, there's an equal but opposite PhD." Wouldn't matter anyway, those who have signed onto the global warming religion aren't going to believe anything that derails that nebulous theory. Even more so those who are convinced that all of that CO2 increase is man-made and man-caused (what they usually mean is western civilization man-made and caused. CO2 from China and other developing industrial nations apparently has no effect). +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |
If this is global warming...
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 03:49:27 GMT, Lew Hodgett
wrote: Somebody wrote: Sure thing, Bubba ... barely 100 years of record keeping out of, give or take a few millions, and only the last 70 really counting for the supposed culprit, manmade greenhouse gases, is a what I would call a real valid, statistical, and historical, trend ... albeit a little short on the "historical", but what the hell. Only problem with the above is that it is not valid. Historical data is determined by core samples, not temperature records. Result is that historical trends being developed are perhaps more accurate than we would like to admit. ... and the precision with which one can measure temperature by core samples is? One can measure the amount of snowfall, perhaps a certain amount of data regarding freeze/thaw cycles, but measuring mean average temperature to the degree being promoted as proof of global warming? There are also anomalies such as the "little ice age" during the middle ages, as well as a brief "global warming" period that followed that. The other real problem here is that nobody takes into account the tremendous heat sink/moderator that covers 7/8 of the Earth's surface. The sooner man realizes that the world is a closed system, the better. As the old saying goes, "What comes around, goes around." Lew +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |
If this is global warming...
On Feb 14, 10:12 pm, "CW" wrote:
Snopes=another Gore apologist. Event the Democrats (dip****s) realized that Gore had not only stuck his foot in his mouth but swallowed the whole leg. They spent a lot of time doing damage control. If you had watched the interview, Gore's intent was clear. Nonsense. The Dems attempt at damage control was a direct result from the piranha-like feeding frenzy of the biased media. What Gore said was stupid, because he left himself wide open to misinterpretation. Nobody in their right mind believes that Gore tried to lay claim on inventing the internet. Gore paid for his awkward word choices but some people feel the need to take a **** on a corps.... imaginary or real. In The Netherlands there is a saying which translates as follows: "He who wants to beat a dog, can always find a stick." You label Snopes as Gore apologists. Why? Because it helps you make your case? How typical. How Rovian. How arbitrary. |
If this is global warming...
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 20:29:11 -0700, "DouginUtah"
wrote: "Swingman" wrote in message [Snip of Swingman's opinions] I do not understand the thought processes of people who believe that we can dump 20+ billion tons (Gt) of CO2 gases into the atmosphere every year, year after year, and not believe that it is going to have a major effect on the earth's climate, considering that there is a definite direct positive correlation between temperature and the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. Which amounts to about 1 percent of the total CO2 in the atmosphere, the remainder of which is put there by natural processes that are dynamic in nature. -Doug |
If this is global warming...
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If this is global warming...
On Feb 14, 10:49 pm, "Swingman" wrote:
while you're add it, add up the volcanoes and buffalo farts throughout history and see where they lead you. I should know better than to read one of your posts with a mouthful of water. I'm willing to bet that a quality buffalo fart could keep a Coleman lantern going for a while. But never mind those buffalo- and volcanic gasses. 4 TacoBell MexiMelts and we're talking Krakatoa. |
If this is global warming...
Robatoy wrote:
I should know better than to read one of your posts with a mouthful of water. I'm willing to bet that a quality buffalo fart could keep a Coleman lantern going for a while. Maybe so, but a buffalo burger is totally tasteless, IMHO. But never mind those buffalo- and volcanic gasses. 4 TacoBell MexiMelts and we're talking Krakatoa. Even living in SoCal, I'm no authority on Tex/Mex or even authentic Mexican food, but TacoBell, give me a break. Lew |
If this is global warming...
"Lee K" wrote:
"Chris Friesen" wrote in message ... wrote: All right guys, settle down. The experts have said we have global warming, so you are gonna believe it and like it. I'm sure everyone is aware of this, but just in case... The concept of global warming is just that...a global annual average. Those who predict it are *also* predicting more extreme weather in general. So its quite possible to both have global warming and harsh winters. Chris Convenient isn't it? If it's hot, it's because of global warming, If it's cold, it's because of global warming. If it's normal, it's because of global warming. If we have lots of hurricanes, it's because of global warming. If we have only a few or no hurricanes, it's because of global warming. In that sense, it is a lot like El Nino. Which got blamed for everything from a shortage of tobacco to psoriasis. |
If this is global warming...
Mark & Juanita wrote:
The number of REFERREED scientific papers that scoff at man :aided CO2 is zero. Enough. : To your latter point, given that the referrees for papers are all global : warming adherents, there's not a lot of hope for papers demonstrating : conclusions contrary to their faith. You don't know a whole lot about refereed journals, from the sound of it. The referees are well-trained, mainstream, reputable scientists. Many hundreds of them. Do you think the editors of all the major science journals in the world are members of a secret society that has an agenda to promote the illusion of global warming? And that they somehow have been able to identify the minority of scientists whole agree with them, and have excluded all other scientists from the editorial review process? : demonstrate another theorem, "for every PhD, there's an equal but opposite : PhD." And that contradicts your point above. -- Andy Barss |
If this is global warming...
Just a question for those debating the issues here, would anyone
care to conjecture on what motivation a scientist might have for affirming or denying global warming? -- Contentment makes poor men rich. Discontent makes rich men poor. --Benjamin Franklin Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf.lonestar.org |
If this is global warming...
Anyone want to start a pool on when and from which side nazis will
be introduced into this thread? -- Contentment makes poor men rich. Discontent makes rich men poor. --Benjamin Franklin Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf.lonestar.org |
If this is global warming...
Well, we have gone from "30 years ago scientists were predicting another
ice age" to "scientists who predict global warming will never change their minds." -- Contentment makes poor men rich. Discontent makes rich men poor. --Benjamin Franklin Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf.lonestar.org |
If this is global warming...
"Larry" wrote in message
... Just a question for those debating the issues here, would anyone care to conjecture on what motivation a scientist might have for affirming or denying global warming? -- Contentment makes poor men rich. Discontent makes rich men poor. --Benjamin Franklin Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf.lonestar.org How about a job? How about continued funding? Anyone who disputes global warming is labeled a crackpot, so there's a huge disincentive to question the conclusions at this point. todd |
If this is global warming...
"Robatoy" wrote in message
oups.com... On Feb 14, 10:12 pm, "CW" wrote: Snopes=another Gore apologist. Event the Democrats (dip****s) realized that Gore had not only stuck his foot in his mouth but swallowed the whole leg. They spent a lot of time doing damage control. If you had watched the interview, Gore's intent was clear. Nonsense. The Dems attempt at damage control was a direct result from the piranha-like feeding frenzy of the biased media. What Gore said was stupid, because he left himself wide open to misinterpretation. Nobody in their right mind believes that Gore tried to lay claim on inventing the internet. Gore paid for his awkward word choices but some people feel the need to take a **** on a corps.... imaginary or real. In The Netherlands there is a saying which translates as follows: "He who wants to beat a dog, can always find a stick." You label Snopes as Gore apologists. Why? Because it helps you make your case? How typical. How Rovian. How arbitrary. I think we're going to have to develop a corollary to Godwin's Law that applies to Karl Rove references. todd |
If this is global warming...
"Larry" wrote in message ... Anyone want to start a pool on when and from which side nazis will be introduced into this thread? -- Contentment makes poor men rich. Discontent makes rich men poor. --Benjamin Franklin Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf.lonestar.org No need. We already have the liberals' new version of the Nazi reference...Karl Rove. todd |
If this is global warming...
Okay. I'll take you up on that. Show me the hundred that agree with your
opinion. Here are eight that say you are very wrong. J Ren (China) N Nicholls (Australia) M Rusticucci (Argentina) P Stott (UK) U Lohmann (Switzerland) R Stouffer (USA) V Kattsov (Russia) T Matsuno (Japan) -Doug No, I'm not going to post 800 references, but I will ask you a very logical question for you to ponder that was originally posted by Phil Brennan. We are being bombarded with horror stories about how the arctic regions are warming and the polar bears are disappearing (actually their numbers have increased by some 20,000) but we are not informed by Mr. Gore and his acolytes as to how a warming arctic region can continue to send more and more record breaking cold waves southward, creating the incredibly frigid weather much of the northern U.S. is shivering under. If your refrigerator is running low on freon it will not keep its contents cold. If the arctic is our refrigerator, and the refrigerator is rapidly running out of coolant, how can it create colder and colder weather fronts? |
If this is global warming...
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 19:33:29 -0800, jo4hn
wrote: Well, ignoring the cutsie bs about spotted owls and all, keep in mind that Antarctic ice cores show that the current concentration of carbon dioxide in the air is the highest that it has ever been (.3 million years). The number of REFERREED scientific papers that scoff at man aided CO2 is zero. Enough. or you might try prayer, jo4hn CO2, atmospheric levels now exceed 400 parts per million (ppm). Paleological records show that every time CO2 levels have exceeded 300 ppm there has been an ice age. Every time, without exception. The same records show that there have been a series of ice ages over the past 5 million years, naturally occurring every 100,000 years, with about 90,000 years of glaciation followed by about 12,000 years of interglacial climate. The last ice age ended about 12,000 years ago. I am more inclined to believe what has happened in the past without exception, than the incredibly unreliable speculation about what will happen into the future 100 to 1000 years from now. Are planet is cyclical, what goes around comes around. Does this mean we will be heading into an ice age anytime soon, certainly not. One thing I do know for sure is that the sky is not falling, Chicken Little. |
If this is global warming...
jo4hn wrote:
Robatoy wrote: Up to my groin in snow. Just a few drifts. *poke, poke, poke* "There's a car in here somewhere..." OK people. Think climate change rather than increases in temp wherever you might be. Some places may experience nastier or better weather but the overall change is an increase in temp with polar caps and glaciers melting. It's been happening for years now. Not gonna get better. Drive hybrid, save a polar bear. luck to all, jo4hn It has been happening for years,ever since the end of the last ice age when the glaciers reached as far south as NYC. Glen |
If this is global warming...
Joe Bleau wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:01:25 -0800, jo4hn wrote: OK people. Think climate change rather than increases in temp wherever you might be. Some places may experience nastier or better weather but the overall change is an increase in temp with polar caps and glaciers melting. It's been happening for years now. Not gonna get better. Drive hybrid, save a polar bear. luck to all, jo4hn It has been happening for years, for eons even. Millions of years before man ever appeared the earth was warming and cooling. Drive SUVs and remember to save a tree you might think about wiping with spotted owls. Joe Hey, man, we don't want those spotted owls to go extinct. I love 'em. Taste like chicken. Glen |
If this is global warming...
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 05:41:49 +0000 (UTC),
(Larry) wrote: Anyone want to start a pool on when and from which side nazis will be introduced into this thread? Too late, you just did it. |
If this is global warming...
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 01:21:17 -0700, Steve wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 19:33:29 -0800, jo4hn wrote: Well, ignoring the cutsie bs about spotted owls and all, keep in mind that Antarctic ice cores show that the current concentration of carbon dioxide in the air is the highest that it has ever been (.3 million years). The number of REFERREED scientific papers that scoff at man aided CO2 is zero. Enough. or you might try prayer, jo4hn CO2, atmospheric levels now exceed 400 parts per million (ppm). Paleological records show that every time CO2 levels have exceeded 300 ppm there has been an ice age. Every time, without exception. The same records show that there have been a series of ice ages over the past 5 million years, naturally occurring every 100,000 years, with about 90,000 years of glaciation followed by about 12,000 years of interglacial climate. The last ice age ended about 12,000 years ago. I am more inclined to believe what has happened in the past without exception, than the incredibly unreliable speculation about what will happen into the future 100 to 1000 years from now. Are planet is cyclical, what goes around comes around. Does this mean we will be heading into an ice age anytime soon, certainly not. One thing I do know for sure is that the sky is not falling, Chicken Little. What is interesting is that according to those same ice cores, instead of peak and precipitate drop in temperature, there had been a peak and hold this time. And that hold goes back far more than the few hundred years that the advocates of the industrial-emission theory are claiming. So it seems likely that _something_ has changed that has nothing to do with human activity, or if the something is human activity it's not industrial CO2 emissions. Whatever we're doing, if humans _are_ doing it we bloody well better keep it up until we figure out the consequences of _stopping_. That's the big problem I have with the "we must fix this ******NOW******" argument--we don't have any reason other than a bunch of opinions to believe that we won't be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. At some point, the world is going to warm, whether humans do it or not. The natural state over tens of millions of years has been warm enough that there were no ice caps. The only reason that humans think that the current state is "normal" is that we've never experienced in our few tens of thousands of years of existence anything _different_. If we see it as a bad thing then at some point we're going to have to interfere with natural processes in order to _stop_ it. The big question, that nobody seems to want to address, is "is what we are seeing the natural end of the ice ages". |
If this is global warming...
In article . com, "Robatoy" wrote:
On Feb 14, 8:55 pm, (Doug Miller) wrote: Gore did say, quote, "I took the initiative in creating the Internet." That is a long ways from claiming he invented the internet. That is Rove spin. Karl Rove had absolutely nothing to do with it. Gore made an ass of himself all *by* himself, without anyone else's assistance -- starting with the fact that the internet had already been in existence *long* before Gore was ever elected to Congress. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
If this is global warming...
In article , J. Clarke wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 20:29:11 -0700, wrote: I do not understand the thought processes of people who believe that we can dump 20+ billion tons (Gt) of CO2 gases into the atmosphere every year, year after year, and not believe that it is going to have a major effect on the earth's climate, considering that there is a definite direct positive correlation between temperature and the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. Which amounts to about 1 percent of the total CO2 in the atmosphere, the remainder of which is put there by natural processes that are dynamic in nature. Actually, you *over*stated that by an order of magnitude. Consider: Surface area of the planet is approximately 200 million square miles. That's 5.6 quadrillion square feet, or about 800 quadrillion square inches. Atmospheric pressure is 14.7 pounds per square inch, giving a total atmospheric mass of approximately 12 quintillion pounds, or 6 quadrillion tons. Four tenths of one percent, approximately, of that is CO2; thus the total mass of CO2 in the atmosphere is approximately 24 trillion tons. 20 GT is less than one *tenth* of one percent of total atmospheric CO2. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
If this is global warming...
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If this is global warming...
In article . net, Lew Hodgett wrote:
The sooner man realizes that the world is a closed system, the better. It's *not* a closed system. We get an enormous input of energy from the sun. A closed system by definition is one that has no interchange of matter or energy with its environment. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
If this is global warming...
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If this is global warming...
In article , Mark & Juanita wrote:
Several obvious questions: 1) Where were these recordings taken? Can local environmental factors like urban heat sink explain the apparent rise? 2) Given the small variance (+/- 0.5C) is this a significant difference or simply statistical "noise"? 3) What was the precision of the instruments used to measure those temperatures during the late 19'th century? 4) What does the actual raw data look like? Were "anomalies" ignored because they didn't fit the desired conclusions? 5) By what possible mechanism does human action on Earth cause the recently observed shrinkage of the polar ice caps on ***MARS*** ? That, alone, is more than enough to discount the entire notion that the Earth is warming due to human activity. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
If this is global warming...
"Robatoy" wrote in message
I'm willing to bet that a quality buffalo fart could keep a Coleman lantern going for a while. But never mind those buffalo- and volcanic gasses. 4 TacoBell MexiMelts and we're talking Krakatoa. Actually, reminds me of a lead singer or two I've known. When the band bus stops at a TacoBell, whoever has to stand behind a lead singer during the next show automatically gets flatulent duty pay. .... and all along you thought the drum riser was invented to give the drummer better beaver shots in the front row! -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 2/07/07 |
If this is global warming...
"Robatoy" wrote in message oups.com... I should know better than to read one of your posts with a mouthful of water. I'm willing to bet that a quality buffalo fart could keep a Coleman lantern going for a while. Hell I can do that! |
If this is global warming...
"Lee K" wrote in message et... "Chris Friesen" wrote in message ... wrote: All right guys, settle down. The experts have said we have global warming, so you are gonna believe it and like it. I'm sure everyone is aware of this, but just in case... The concept of global warming is just that...a global annual average. Those who predict it are *also* predicting more extreme weather in general. So its quite possible to both have global warming and harsh winters. Chris Convenient isn't it? If it's hot, it's because of global warming, If it's cold, it's because of global warming. If it's normal, it's because of global warming. If we have lots of hurricanes, it's because of global warming. If we have only a few or no hurricanes, it's because of global warming. I recently heard that more and stronger hurricanes are a direct result of cleaner air. Less filtration of the sun's heat over the ocean. |
If this is global warming...
"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message news:l3SAh.5880$ov2.4737@trndny06... In that sense, it is a lot like El Nino. Which got blamed for everything from a shortage of tobacco to psoriasis. El NIno translated, We're going to wait and see what the weather is going to be like, then blame it on El Nino. La Nina has the same basic translation. I like to think, Its colder or hotter this year. |
If this is global warming...
On Feb 15, 2:00 am, "todd" wrote:
No need. We already have the liberals' new version of the Nazi reference...Karl Rove. todd You said it, not me. If there is a difference, it is the fact that Rove is feeding people dirt, and they're liking it. Goebbels wasn't that clever. |
If this is global warming...
"Robatoy" wrote in message ups.com... I have not seen Gore's movie, but many people that have, liked it. Most like sicience Fiction. Were there ANY hurricanesin 2006? That is so weird... what, there 5 big mofo's in 2005? Yes , I think 3 or 4 times less than 2005 and that many times less than predicted. |
If this is global warming...
On Feb 15, 6:15 am, Glen wrote:
Joe Bleau wrote: On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:01:25 -0800, jo4hn wrote: OK people. Think climate change rather than increases in temp wherever you might be. Some places may experience nastier or better weather but the overall change is an increase in temp with polar caps and glaciers melting. It's been happening for years now. Not gonna get better. Drive hybrid, save a polar bear. luck to all, jo4hn It has been happening for years, for eons even. Millions of years before man ever appeared the earth was warming and cooling. Drive SUVs and remember to save a tree you might think about wiping with spotted owls. Joe Hey, man, we don't want those spotted owls to go extinct. I love 'em. Taste like chicken. Glen Easy to shoot too, with a night scope. Not a lot of meat on them though, Tastes more like a blend of Condor and Blue Heron to me. |
If this is global warming...
Steve wrote:
Okay. I'll take you up on that. Show me the hundred that agree with your opinion. Here are eight that say you are very wrong. J Ren (China) N Nicholls (Australia) M Rusticucci (Argentina) P Stott (UK) U Lohmann (Switzerland) R Stouffer (USA) V Kattsov (Russia) T Matsuno (Japan) -Doug No, I'm not going to post 800 references, but I will ask you a very logical question for you to ponder that was originally posted by Phil Brennan. We are being bombarded with horror stories about how the arctic regions are warming and the polar bears are disappearing (actually their numbers have increased by some 20,000) but we are not informed by Mr. Gore and his acolytes as to how a warming arctic region can continue to send more and more record breaking cold waves southward, creating the incredibly frigid weather much of the northern U.S. is shivering under. Please acquaint yourself with the difference between weather and climate. Global warming ain't about weather. If your refrigerator is running low on freon it will not keep its contents cold. If the arctic is our refrigerator, and the refrigerator is rapidly running out of coolant, how can it create colder and colder weather fronts? The Arctic is not a refrigerator-- it is an effect and not a cause of climate. It is now mostly free of ice, as you admit, the result of global warming. Which, BTW, is the subject of a meeting of 600 scientists at the present. You made the unsubstantiated claim that you could provide the names of 100 scientists who believe that global warming is cyclical for every one who believes that is is man-made. You owe us 6,800 names. I'll give you the name of one (most definitely) non-scientist who believes that it is man-made: George W. Bush. Or is Charlton Heston still your president? Bob |
If this is global warming...
On Feb 15, 7:55 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article . com, "Robatoy" wrote: On Feb 14, 8:55 pm, (Doug Miller) wrote: Gore did say, quote, "I took the initiative in creating the Internet." That is a long ways from claiming he invented the internet. That is Rove spin. Karl Rove had absolutely nothing to do with it. Gore made an ass of himself all *by* himself, without anyone else's assistance -- starting with the fact that the internet had already been in existence *long* before Gore was ever elected to Congress. That's the spin Rove gave it. You bought into it. He's good, eh? I actually admire Rove, in a sick way. He's one of the brightest in the administration. Gore said something that was open to misinterpretation, something that is quite clear when you read his statement. But that would mean you'd have to have an open mind, and put biases aside. But you can't do that anymore, Doug.... Rove got to you first. Now your mind is set, which also means that we should stop this part of the thread. If you think Rove has nothing to do with media spin, on a grand scale, think Swift-boats. |
If this is global warming...
"Glen" wrote in message nk.net... It has been happening for years,ever since the end of the last ice age when the glaciers reached as far south as NYC. Glen Farther south than that, Huge boulders in farmers fields in the mid-west are proof. |
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