Was in Woodcraft today. Had been thinking about a shoulder plane for a
while. Didn't really want to spend for a Lie-Nielsen and would like to
see the Veritas before buying, so I was on the fence. Well, they didn't
have a Lie-Nielsen medium, but they did have, sitting on its price tag,
a Stanley 92. Well, I'd read Very Bad Things about the current
production 92s but I decided to take a look at it anyway. Didn't look
too bad, seemed square and flat anyway, didn't expect it to come sharp
(I don't expect _anything_ but razor blades to come sharp, and 5 years
back I started using a straight razor so I guess I don't trust _them_
anymore). So, first step, chuck a piece of 2x4 in the vise and see what
happens. Basically nothing much. The edge of the throat cuts
better than the iron. Well, that's expected. So, flatten and sharpen the
iron. Few minutes on the diamond plates, then go to the black Arkansas and
strop and it's happy. Next, flatten the sole--took a while on the coarse
diamond plate--turns out that the two sections weren't quite in the same
plane--close, but not quite, but got it done.

So, put it together and see how it cuts. Turns out it cuts fine, on one
corner of the iron, with all the adjustment in the opposite direction
used up. Not good. So, did I screw up the iron while I was sharpening?
Thickness is uniform as close as I can measure, edge is square, that's not
it. How about the sole? No, seems to be square with the edges. So, on
this plane the ramp is easily accessible--is it not quite parallel to the
sole? Set the ramp on the medium diamond plate and put pressure on what
would have to be the high side and see what happens. Well, turns out the
ramp isn't flat, so this is a worthwhile exercise regardless.
Give it about 30 strokes, reassemble, and see what happens. Better, not
perfect. 30 more and I can get a uniform shaving with all the adjustment
used up. 30 more and it seems OK. Meanwhile I've cut quite a sizeable
little rabbet in my piece of 2x4.

Tear it down again, clean it, wax the sole, put it back together and it's
done.

So now I've got a nice little shoulder plane, 50 more bucks in my pocket
than I would have had if I'd gotten the Veritas, and I got my workout for
today. So it's a win all around.

Shame Stanley can't get their quality up, but I guess they'd have to
charge as much as the others.

Had hoped to get the pattern vise mounted, but it didn't happen, that's
for tomorrow I guess. When that's in the bench with neither me, the
bench, nor the vise broken, I'll be a much happier camper. I can tell
already though that I'm going to need to build a heavier bench at some
point.


-- --John to email, dial
"usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

John:

Great exercise in "fettling" that plane, iron sharpening etc..

Had you not "saved" the $50, you'd have had a plane that works
right out of the box with the Veritas. And, should you have
gone with the Veritas and used it in a few of the applications
for which it is suited, you'd notice the multiple comfortable
gripping positions it has, pushing or pulling, upright or on its
side. And if you got their larger shoulder plane you'd probably
find the extra handle for when you're using it on its side to
be a nice innovative enhancement. When it came time to
touch up the iron, you'd also appreciate the set screws
that make it a no brainer when you reinstall it. And then
when you go to adjust the depth of cut you'd notice that
there is essentially no slop/back lash in the adjustment
screw so no more "overshoot", "undershoot", "overshoot
just a liitle", "undershoot just a little", "overshoot a tad",
"undershoot a tad" - AH! Got It!

The Clifton 311 (I think that's the number for the 3-in-1)
is pretty nice and comes ready to go. But for me, the
gripping position is still not comfortable in most uses.

You can pay for a good tool in dollars or time - but you
pay about in the end.

charlie b

J. Clarke wrote:

Meanwhile I've cut quite a sizeable
little rabbet in my piece of 2x4.

I use a #92 (also #90 and #93) a lot. In the UK they're not badly made
either. Take a US and a UK one, put them together and you can see
daylight between the soles!

They're not shoulder planes though. They're OK for a small rebate where
the others are too clumsy, but they don't really have the mouth
adjustment you need for perfection in cross grain or end grain work. I
still use the big heavy Preston for that - the extra inertia helps too.

For big rebates, I use old woodies or a #78. These clear the chips far
better - the #92 quickly jams solid.

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 00:43:15 -0800, charlie b wrote:

John:

Great exercise in "fettling" that plane, iron sharpening etc..

Had you not "saved" the $50, you'd have had a plane that works
right out of the box with the Veritas. And, should you have
gone with the Veritas and used it in a few of the applications
for which it is suited, you'd notice the multiple comfortable
gripping positions it has, pushing or pulling, upright or on its
side. And if you got their larger shoulder plane you'd probably
find the extra handle for when you're using it on its side to
be a nice innovative enhancement. When it came time to
touch up the iron, you'd also appreciate the set screws
that make it a no brainer when you reinstall it.

I've had the iron in and out of the Stanley several times during the
course of fettling it. I don't see where set screws could be applied to
make the installation of the iron any more "no-brainer" than the Stanley.

And then
when you go to adjust the depth of cut you'd notice that there is
essentially no slop/back lash in the adjustment screw so no more
"overshoot", "undershoot", "overshoot just a liitle", "undershoot just a
little", "overshoot a tad", "undershoot a tad" - AH! Got It!

The Clifton 311 (I think that's the number for the 3-in-1) is pretty
nice and comes ready to go. But for me, the gripping position is still
not comfortable in most uses.

You can pay for a good tool in dollars or time - but you pay about in
the end.

charlie b

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 03:47:14 -0800, Andy Dingley
wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:

Meanwhile I've cut quite a sizeable
little rabbet in my piece of 2x4.

I use a #92 (also #90 and #93) a lot. In the UK they're not badly made
either. Take a US and a UK one, put them together and you can see
daylight between the soles!

So you're saying that the UK is dumping their rejects on the US market? Or
is there some town in the US named "England" in which Stanley has a
factory? Because this one was clearly labelled "England" and unless
Stanley lied any shortcomings it has can be laid squarely in the lap of
the UK.

Want some Daddy's Sauce for that foot?

They're not shoulder planes though. They're OK for a small rebate where
the others are too clumsy, but they don't really have the mouth
adjustment you need for perfection in cross grain or end grain work.

They don't? I can adjust the mouth down to zero clearance (or will be
able to once I correct yet another triumph of English quality control--the
front edge of the throat isn't parallel to the back edge or perpendicular
to _anything_--fixing that involves hogging off more metal than I really
felt like dealing with last night) or up to more than 1/8 inch. What do you
perceive to be lacking in that department?

I
still use the big heavy Preston for that - the extra inertia helps too.

For big rebates, I use old woodies or a #78. These clear the chips far
better - the #92 quickly jams solid.

Since it wasn't intended as a rabbet plane, why would you expect it to do
otherwise?

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:

So you're saying that the UK is dumping their rejects on the US market?

No, but the body castings on the US (a slightly different design) ones
are infamous for twisting with age.

Want some Daddy's Sauce for that foot?

Henderson's Relish, please.


They don't? I can adjust the mouth down to zero clearance (or will be
able to once I correct yet another triumph of English quality control--the
front edge of the throat isn't parallel to the back edge

That's the problem with them. The mouth is usually parallel, but the
iron positioning is too crude to keep the edge of the iron parallel to
the mouth front edge. Obviously any extra wiggle between the body
halves would make things worse.

For big rebates, I use old woodies or a #78. These clear the chips far
better - the #92 quickly jams solid.

Since it wasn't intended as a rabbet plane, why would you expect it to do
otherwise?

Fair point, but I'm hoping to use it for something as it's not really
up to being a shoulder plane. Normally I'm using it for clean-up, such
as halved joints that I've hogged out on the saw. If I'm cutting a
rebate from scratch, I use a bigger plane.

I picked up a pristine English 92 (with the circular disc on the front,
which I believe was phased out in the 1980s) for $45 at a tool swap
meet, and it works just fine; it was never sharpened nor used. See
Patrick's Blood and Gore about why the disc was there, e.g., to prevent
warping of the toe section. I for one don't mind fettling, and use the
$$ saved from not buying new for other tools and wood. Mutt

On Dec 14, 9:41 am, "Andy Dingley "
wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
So you're saying that the UK is dumping their rejects on the US market?No, but the body castings on the US (a slightly different design) ones
are infamous for twisting with age.

Want some Daddy's Sauce for that foot?Henderson's Relish, please.

They don't? I can adjust the mouth down to zero clearance (or will be
able to once I correct yet another triumph of English quality control--the
front edge of the throat isn't parallel to the back edgeThat's the problem with them. The mouth is usually parallel, but the
iron positioning is too crude to keep the edge of the iron parallel to
the mouth front edge. Obviously any extra wiggle between the body
halves would make things worse.

For big rebates, I use old woodies or a #78. These clear the chips far
better - the #92 quickly jams solid.

Since it wasn't intended as a rabbet plane, why would you expect it to do
otherwise?Fair point, but I'm hoping to use it for something as it's not really
up to being a shoulder plane. Normally I'm using it for clean-up, such
as halved joints that I've hogged out on the saw. If I'm cutting a
rebate from scratch, I use a bigger plane.

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 06:41:44 -0800, Andy Dingley
wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:

So you're saying that the UK is dumping their rejects on the US market?

No, but the body castings on the US (a slightly different design) ones
are infamous for twisting with age.

So the English are using two different castings, one for planes to be sold
in the US and one for planes to be sold in the UK? How insidious. Do you
have any idea why they are doing this?

Want some Daddy's Sauce for that foot?

Henderson's Relish, please.


They don't? I can adjust the mouth down to zero clearance (or will be
able to once I correct yet another triumph of English quality
control--the front edge of the throat isn't parallel to the back edge

That's the problem with them. The mouth is usually parallel, but the
iron positioning is too crude to keep the edge of the iron parallel to
the mouth front edge. Obviously any extra wiggle between the body halves
would make things worse.

Positioning doesn't seem any worse than on a block plane. Not noticing any
wiggle at all between the body halves. Maybe I should shell out the 200+
for the Clifton that was sitting next to it to see if I can tell what
you're on about.

For big rebates, I use old woodies or a #78. These clear the chips
far better - the #92 quickly jams solid.

Since it wasn't intended as a rabbet plane, why would you expect it to
do otherwise?

Fair point, but I'm hoping to use it for something as it's not really up
to being a shoulder plane. Normally I'm using it for clean-up, such as
halved joints that I've hogged out on the saw. If I'm cutting a rebate
from scratch, I use a bigger plane.

If I'm cutting a rebate from scratch I use a router.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

[snip]
So now I've got a nice little shoulder plane, 50 more bucks in my pocket
than I would have had if I'd gotten the Veritas, and I got my workout for
today. So it's a win all around.

Seems like if you do not buy a Veritas or Lie-Nielsen or a Steve Knight
or a few of the other high end planes, you're basically buying a plane
"kit." I'm continusouly surprised at how many people buy nice products
ready for use (like cars, TV's, power tools, etc.) but when it comes to
planes, they buy the "kit." Nothing wrong with that, just seems funny
to me.

Cheers and have some happy holidays.