I am framing a bunch of different sized pictures, matted, glasses, and
stained glass.

The problem is this, I can mill the wood using standard square or other
molding to get everthing to the desired sizes. I have even mitered the
corners to a perfect 45 angle, everything assembled but...

As to put the frame together I cannot get a system that is reliable. I
have tried epoxy, small nails & screws, even tight bond but the frame
is still not strong enough. I have 45 clamps to hold the rig together
but am experiencing problems. looked into some 45 mounting brackets
but it will look not so good. The guys at work suggest using a air
nailer to put in some small braids and that sounds okay but thought I
would ask the network gods for any ideas.

I know the factory frames from pottery barny are made this way, that is
the point!, I want this to be better than that.
Any ideas would be great,
Tks,
trying to fish in new orleans

Brads aren't a bad idea.

Do you have enough room to cut a recess for a biscuit, or half a one? I use
that a lot to make 45 degree miters.

BTW it is a weak joint, gluing end grain to end grain.

Old Guy

wrote in message
oups.com...
I am framing a bunch of different sized pictures, matted, glasses, and
stained glass.

The problem is this, I can mill the wood using standard square or other
molding to get everthing to the desired sizes. I have even mitered the
corners to a perfect 45 angle, everything assembled but...

As to put the frame together I cannot get a system that is reliable. I
have tried epoxy, small nails & screws, even tight bond but the frame
is still not strong enough. I have 45 clamps to hold the rig together
but am experiencing problems. looked into some 45 mounting brackets
but it will look not so good. The guys at work suggest using a air
nailer to put in some small braids and that sounds okay but thought I
would ask the network gods for any ideas.

I know the factory frames from pottery barny are made this way, that is
the point!, I want this to be better than that.
Any ideas would be great,
Tks,
trying to fish in new orleans

wrote in message
oups.com...
I am framing a bunch of different sized pictures, matted, glasses, and
stained glass.

The problem is this, I can mill the wood using standard square or other
molding to get everthing to the desired sizes. I have even mitered the
corners to a perfect 45 angle, everything assembled but...

As to put the frame together I cannot get a system that is reliable. I
have tried epoxy, small nails & screws, even tight bond but the frame
is still not strong enough. I have 45 clamps to hold the rig together
but am experiencing problems. looked into some 45 mounting brackets
but it will look not so good. The guys at work suggest using a air
nailer to put in some small braids and that sounds okay but thought I
would ask the network gods for any ideas.

I know the factory frames from pottery barny are made this way, that is
the point!, I want this to be better than that.
Any ideas would be great,
Tks,
trying to fish in new orleans


It is very common for frames to have small brads or pins in the corners to
reinforce the corners.
The type of wood you are using will also affect the strength of the joints.
More stable and dense woods work better than woods like cedar or pine. If
the frames are flat backed and wide enough consider using pocket hole screws
also, these work like a charm.

wrote:

As to put the frame together I cannot get a system that is reliable.

High initial-tack glue and L-shaped magic picture framing nails like
Framemaster put in perpendicular from the back. These are fine for
small frames, anything bigger you can put a biscuit in. I never brad
from the sides.

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 20:50:36 -0800, wrote:

I am framing a bunch of different sized pictures, matted, glasses, and
stained glass.

The problem is this, I can mill the wood using standard square or other
molding to get everthing to the desired sizes. I have even mitered the
corners to a perfect 45 angle, everything assembled but...

As to put the frame together I cannot get a system that is reliable. I
have tried epoxy, small nails & screws, even tight bond but the frame
is still not strong enough. I have 45 clamps to hold the rig together
but am experiencing problems. looked into some 45 mounting brackets
but it will look not so good. The guys at work suggest using a air
nailer to put in some small braids and that sounds okay but thought I
would ask the network gods for any ideas.

There are purpose-made nails for picture framing. They are called
"v-nails" and if you google that term (with the hyphen) you'll find a
number of suppliers both for the nails and for various tools to insert
them.

Note that they do not seem to be happy with the concrete-with-leaves
tropicals--I tried v-nailing some purpleheart and the nail was squashed
flat without making much of a mark on the wood, but that might be my
technique. Oak and maple they don't seem to have any trouble with.

The most widely marketed tool for the purpose is from Logan Industries (I
don't know if it's the best, but it's the one you're most likely to find),
the cheapest is the Pushmaster (Woodcraft has both), one can if one is
careful use a pair of long nosed pliers and a hammer.

Try polyurethane glue--I read a while back that it was very good for
endgrain, tried it, and it actually does seem to hold reasonably well, at
least I haven't had anything fall apart on me yet. Finish first, mask,
then strip the masking while the foam-out is still soft, and it's not all
that much hassle either.

Also, if you don't have a framing clamp, you might want to consider
getting
one--http://www.coastaltool.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/clamps_vises/adjustable/clampmate.htm?L+coastest+jbcx4123ff45e645+11656185 55
works a treat. Wax the aluminum parts before you use it--otherwise you're
going to have to chisel glue off it. Actually puts pressure on the joints
rather than just holding them at a right angle.

Beyond that there are the old standbys such as lap miters, splined miters,
and the like.

You might want to take a look at
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Portable+Power+Tools&pid=0091755000 0&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Jointers+%26+Planers&BV_Use BVCookie=Yes.
Made by Ryobi but apparently no longer available except through Sears, it
uses special biscuits that are smaller than the regular kind--its largest
is about the size of a standard FF biscuit and the smallest is a little
over a half an inch long. I've not used one of these but the idea of it
is intriguing and if I did enough small work I'd certainly give it a try.
One of the reviewers of the Ryobi version (RK50) on Amazon says he's been
using it for frames for years.


I know the factory frames from pottery barny are made this way, that is
the point!, I want this to be better than that.
Any ideas would be great,
Tks,
trying to fish in new orleans

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

wife got me to make picture frames for her recently

First use stops when your cutting. Make sure the opposite sides are
absolutely the same length otherwise the angle will seem off. I found
that my miter saw is powerful enough to pull or push the wood just a bit
when cutting that I could not hold it by hand. I tried using quick
clamps but the saw would even pull the wood with them. I ended up
buying a clamp made for my Dewalt saw to hold the wood.

Second use miter clips to test fit the frame. I found some inexpensive
ones at a hardware store that work well enough or you can buy the more
expensive ones that places like woodcraft sell.

I use Titbond for my joints and the spring clips to hold everything
together. The clips have enough hold for glue up but I can still move
the joints around to line up a flush fit. If the frame is going to have
a natural finish I wipe the surface with a wet cloth to remove any glue
that comes to the surface. I also use a band clamps if I'm doing more
than one frame at a time

Then I use V-nails to hold everything together after the glue has dried.
Since September I've made a couple dozen frames this way. The V-nails
are handy.

wrote:
I am framing a bunch of different sized pictures, matted, glasses, and
stained glass.

The problem is this, I can mill the wood using standard square or other
molding to get everthing to the desired sizes. I have even mitered the
corners to a perfect 45 angle, everything assembled but...

As to put the frame together I cannot get a system that is reliable. I
have tried epoxy, small nails & screws, even tight bond but the frame
is still not strong enough. I have 45 clamps to hold the rig together
but am experiencing problems. looked into some 45 mounting brackets
but it will look not so good. The guys at work suggest using a air
nailer to put in some small braids and that sounds okay but thought I
would ask the network gods for any ideas.

I know the factory frames from pottery barny are made this way, that is
the point!, I want this to be better than that.
Any ideas would be great,
Tks,
trying to fish in new orleans

I too use standard square sizes of moldings to make picture frames. I
cut the miters on the square stock to size, and then do the milling.

I work mostly as 1 X 2", 1 X 4" inch material.

I fasten the corners with biscuits. I cut the slots using a slot
cutting bit on a router table. I find I can get better accuracy and
faster using the table than with a biscuit joiner.

I use the Veritas® Mini Biscuits from Lee Valley Tools Ltd. These are
slightly shorter than the standard biscuits so there is sufficient space
to cut the slot in the 2" stock.

They can be found at the following URL

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...50,43217,43231

I don't know your experience, but in addition to perfect miters the
opposite sides must be exactly the same length for good picture frames.

wrote:
I am framing a bunch of different sized pictures, matted, glasses, and
stained glass.

The problem is this, I can mill the wood using standard square or other
molding to get everthing to the desired sizes. I have even mitered the
corners to a perfect 45 angle, everything assembled but...

As to put the frame together I cannot get a system that is reliable. I
have tried epoxy, small nails & screws, even tight bond but the frame
is still not strong enough. I have 45 clamps to hold the rig together
but am experiencing problems. looked into some 45 mounting brackets
but it will look not so good. The guys at work suggest using a air
nailer to put in some small braids and that sounds okay but thought I
would ask the network gods for any ideas.

I know the factory frames from pottery barny are made this way, that is
the point!, I want this to be better than that.
Any ideas would be great,
Tks,
trying to fish in new orleans

with square stock I use double sided tape to hold the two pieces
together then cut my miter on opposite sides in on pass. This assures
that both pieces are the same length.

keith_nuttle wrote:
I too use standard square sizes of moldings to make picture frames. I
cut the miters on the square stock to size, and then do the milling.

I work mostly as 1 X 2", 1 X 4" inch material.

I fasten the corners with biscuits. I cut the slots using a slot
cutting bit on a router table. I find I can get better accuracy and
faster using the table than with a biscuit joiner.

I use the Veritas® Mini Biscuits from Lee Valley Tools Ltd. These are
slightly shorter than the standard biscuits so there is sufficient space
to cut the slot in the 2" stock.

They can be found at the following URL

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...50,43217,43231

I don't know your experience, but in addition to perfect miters the
opposite sides must be exactly the same length for good picture frames.

wrote:
I am framing a bunch of different sized pictures, matted, glasses, and
stained glass.

The problem is this, I can mill the wood using standard square or other
molding to get everthing to the desired sizes. I have even mitered the
corners to a perfect 45 angle, everything assembled but...

As to put the frame together I cannot get a system that is reliable. I
have tried epoxy, small nails & screws, even tight bond but the frame
is still not strong enough. I have 45 clamps to hold the rig together
but am experiencing problems. looked into some 45 mounting brackets
but it will look not so good. The guys at work suggest using a air
nailer to put in some small braids and that sounds okay but thought I
would ask the network gods for any ideas.

I know the factory frames from pottery barny are made this way, that is
the point!, I want this to be better than that.
Any ideas would be great,
Tks,
trying to fish in new orleans

wrote:

As to put the frame together I cannot get a system that is reliable.**I
have tried epoxy, small nails & screws, even tight bond but the frame
is still not strong enough.

One fairly simple possibility comes to mind. Clamp each corner together and,
using a Forstner bit, drill a shallow (1/8" or so) recess centered across the
joint on the back side. Cut a matching or contrasting disk of the same size
and glue into the recess with the grain running across the joint.


--
It's turtles, all the way down

wrote in message
oups.com...
I am framing a bunch of different sized pictures, matted, glasses, and
stained glass.

The problem is this, I can mill the wood using standard square or other
molding to get everthing to the desired sizes. I have even mitered the
corners to a perfect 45 angle, everything assembled but...

As to put the frame together I cannot get a system that is reliable. I
have tried epoxy, small nails & screws, even tight bond but the frame
is still not strong enough. I have 45 clamps to hold the rig together
but am experiencing problems. looked into some 45 mounting brackets
but it will look not so good. The guys at work suggest using a air
nailer to put in some small braids and that sounds okay but thought I
would ask the network gods for any ideas.

I know the factory frames from pottery barny are made this way, that is
the point!, I want this to be better than that.
Any ideas would be great,
Tks,
trying to fish in new orleans

If you do a lot of framing, you might consider getting an underpinner. It is
a pneumatic or foot operated device that drives V nails in to the miter.
They are used buy the picture framing industry. You can get a foot operated
model for around $500. I think there is a hand operated one for much less.
Logan might be the company who sells it.
-S

Used to do picture framing professionally, though on a smaller scale.
Underpinners are expensive. I used a small framing vice ( 90 degrees
), glue and small brads in from the sides. The glue was a dark brown
stuff, common in the framing industry. But have since forgotten the
name. I used wax pencils to touch up, and fill nail holes. They come
in a number of colors.

I must have a dozen frames, from smaller to large at home that have no
strength issues.

I used a Makita chop saw at the time, carbide blade, and the angle had
to be a little better than perfect to get a good looking joint. As I
remember, go to the 45 degree setting, and then adjust about 1/4 degree
from the mark to get a good cut. A good cut made the difference, and
then the framing vice held it so it was nailed tight. After assembly,
it was set aside overnight for the glue to set.

Hope this helps a little.

Rich.....



SimonLW wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
I am framing a bunch of different sized pictures, matted, glasses, and
stained glass.

The problem is this, I can mill the wood using standard square or other
molding to get everthing to the desired sizes. I have even mitered the
corners to a perfect 45 angle, everything assembled but...

As to put the frame together I cannot get a system that is reliable. I
have tried epoxy, small nails & screws, even tight bond but the frame
is still not strong enough. I have 45 clamps to hold the rig together
but am experiencing problems. looked into some 45 mounting brackets
but it will look not so good. The guys at work suggest using a air
nailer to put in some small braids and that sounds okay but thought I
would ask the network gods for any ideas.

I know the factory frames from pottery barny are made this way, that is
the point!, I want this to be better than that.
Any ideas would be great,
Tks,
trying to fish in new orleans

If you do a lot of framing, you might consider getting an underpinner. It is
a pneumatic or foot operated device that drives V nails in to the miter.
They are used buy the picture framing industry. You can get a foot operated
model for around $500. I think there is a hand operated one for much less.
Logan might be the company who sells it.
-S

In article .com,
" wrote:

I am framing a bunch of different sized pictures, matted, glasses, and
stained glass.

The problem is this, I can mill the wood using standard square or other
molding to get everthing to the desired sizes. I have even mitered the
corners to a perfect 45 angle, everything assembled but...
snip

Putting a spline in the joint adds strength as well as a unique look
http://sawdustmaking.com/About%20Joi...Spline%20joint

How about cutting lap joints on the ends of each corner piece to
give you a lot more surface area for the glue to stick to. Then you
can reinforce the corner with a couple of brad nails coming in from
the back.

That would seem to be a nice and sturdy connection to keep the ends
from breaking apart, plus, it has the advantange of being nearly
invisible from the front.


I am framing a bunch of different sized pictures, matted, glasses, and
stained glass.

The problem is this, I can mill the wood using standard square or other
molding to get everthing to the desired sizes. I have even mitered the
corners to a perfect 45 angle, everything assembled but...

As to put the frame together I cannot get a system that is reliable. I
have tried epoxy, small nails & screws, even tight bond but the frame
is still not strong enough. I have 45 clamps to hold the rig together
but am experiencing problems. looked into some 45 mounting brackets
but it will look not so good. The guys at work suggest using a air
nailer to put in some small braids and that sounds okay but thought I
would ask the network gods for any ideas.

I know the factory frames from pottery barny are made this way, that is
the point!, I want this to be better than that.
Any ideas would be great,
Tks,
trying to fish in new orleans