I'm primarily a power tool user, but am becoming more interested in
hand tools. I had a pull saw that I picked up from HD last year, but
some the teeth sheared off, and I didn't replace the blade. I'm
interested now in getting a decent quality handsaw to have as a sort of
all purpose saw. I'd like to use it to work on my hand cut dovetail
skill, and for other jointery work. Does anyone have any suggestions
of a specific type or saw I might consider?
Thanks

Lee Nelson Handsaw about $60. very good for Dovtail but not for
ripping.
You could find it in their web site or Lee Valley.
Max


Doug wrote:
I'm primarily a power tool user, but am becoming more interested in
hand tools. I had a pull saw that I picked up from HD last year, but
some the teeth sheared off, and I didn't replace the blade. I'm
interested now in getting a decent quality handsaw to have as a sort of
all purpose saw. I'd like to use it to work on my hand cut dovetail
skill, and for other jointery work. Does anyone have any suggestions
of a specific type or saw I might consider?
Thanks

Doug wrote:
I'm interested now in getting a decent quality handsaw to have as a sort of
all purpose saw.

The thing is that there are two basic types of hand saw: rip and cross
cut, based on how the teeth are shaped. For example, you'd use a
crosscut saw for tenon shoulder cuts, and a rip saw for the cheeks.
Dovetailing calls for a rip tooth.
To further complicate matters, there are also Western and Japanese style
saws (each having the same rip/crosscut divide.) Japanese saws cut on
the pull stroke, so the blades can be very thin because they aren't
going to bind. The thinness means less material is being removed, which
also makes them faster. Western saws cut on the push stroke and are
prone to binding, but the teeth are usually big enough that you can
resharpen them yourself if you want.
So I'd look around he
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...&cat=1&p=42884
and let us know if anything catches your eye.

Or, since handsaws are one of those "don't make em like they used to"
things, you could look at getting used saws. Diston is probably the
brand to go for here, for western-style saws.

It's hard to beat an old Disston and Sons saw. I have several and love
them.

But, I know how to sharpen them and tune them up so they work. If you can
find someone who will do that, or are willing to learn, you'll be amazed how
quickly you can saw through wood, and how easily.

Old Guy


"Doug" wrote in message
ps.com...
I'm primarily a power tool user, but am becoming more interested in
hand tools. I had a pull saw that I picked up from HD last year, but
some the teeth sheared off, and I didn't replace the blade. I'm
interested now in getting a decent quality handsaw to have as a sort of
all purpose saw. I'd like to use it to work on my hand cut dovetail
skill, and for other jointery work. Does anyone have any suggestions
of a specific type or saw I might consider?
Thanks

"Gordon Airporte" wrote in message
...
Doug wrote:
I'm interested now in getting a decent quality handsaw to have as a sort
of
all purpose saw.

The thing is that there are two basic types of hand saw: rip and cross
cut, based on how the teeth are shaped. For example, you'd use a
crosscut saw for tenon shoulder cuts, and a rip saw for the cheeks.
Dovetailing calls for a rip tooth.

This is technically correct, but for small joints you don't need or want a
fast rip saw, you want a fine clean cut which means more tpi (teeth per
inch) and normally one cross cut tenon saw for all the cuts on dovetails or
tenons. If you want a quicker cut you can use a standard hand saw on for
instance the not seen cuts of the tenon.

Or, since handsaws are one of those "don't make em like they used to"
things, you could look at getting used saws. Diston is probably the
brand to go for here, for western-style saws.

I have a number of old tools in daily professional use, but not saws.
Sharpness is what you need above all else, and saw sharpening is a drag. Do
it for fun by all means but if you want to do joinery a good quality
hard-point throw away saw will do the job. Currently I am using Stanley
Jet-Cut tenon saws which are excellent but for visible dovetails you will
want finer than their 11tpi. I also use Spear & Jackson Predator hand-saws
which are good - a bit stiffer in the blade than most - but for carpentry
rather than cabinet work.

Tim W

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 16:41:45 -0500, Gordon Airporte wrote:

Doug wrote:
I'm interested now in getting a decent quality handsaw to have as a sort of
all purpose saw.

The thing is that there are two basic types of hand saw: rip and cross
cut, based on how the teeth are shaped. For example, you'd use a
crosscut saw for tenon shoulder cuts, and a rip saw for the cheeks.
Dovetailing calls for a rip tooth.
To further complicate matters, there are also Western and Japanese style
saws (each having the same rip/crosscut divide.) Japanese saws cut on
the pull stroke, so the blades can be very thin because they aren't
going to bind. The thinness means less material is being removed, which
also makes them faster. Western saws cut on the push stroke and are
prone to binding, but the teeth are usually big enough that you can
resharpen them yourself if you want.
So I'd look around he
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...&cat=1&p=42884
and let us know if anything catches your eye.

Or, since handsaws are one of those "don't make em like they used to"
things, you could look at getting used saws. Diston is probably the
brand to go for here, for western-style saws.

The Japanese _do_ still make them like they used to but you pay
accordingly.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

I'd recommend a Dozuki "Z" saw - Fine Woodworking gave it highest
honors in a recent test of japanese-style saws (very thin blade, cuts
on pull stroke). Among the ones with crosscut style teeth, it was one
of the better ones at ripping. Good for dovetailing and most kinds of
fine-scale work. I got one recently and I'm very happy with it.
Available at Woodcraft and Rockler - last I knew, it was on sale for
$30 at Woodcraft.
I'd also recommend getting a catalog from japanwoodworker.com - their
website isn't that great, but the catalog is fun and has a bunch of
japanese-style saws of various sizes, rip and crosscut, single-edged
(dozuki) and double-edged (ryoba), etc.
Enjoy,
Andy

Andy wrote:

I'd recommend a Dozuki "Z" saw - Fine Woodworking gave it highest
honors in a recent test of japanese-style saws (very thin blade, cuts
on pull stroke).**Among*the*ones*with*crosscut*style*teeth ,*it*was*one
of the better ones at ripping.**Good*for*dovetailing*and*most*kinds*of
fine-scale work.**I*got*one*recently*and*I'm*very*happy*with* it.
Available at Woodcraft and Rockler - last I knew, it was on sale for
$30 at Woodcraft.

I'll second that. I've got one and it works great. Also, replacement blades
are also available from the above-mentioned sources. For larger work, a
ryoba with xcut on one side and rip on the other is also a good saw.

For western saws, go old, at least 60-70 years old. Disston is a good brand,
but my favorite is the Atkins "silver steel" saws. Harder to find, but they
don't rust like the Disstons, so older ones are usually in better shape..

--
It's turtles, all the way down

Larry Blanchard wrote in
:

snip

For western saws, go old, at least 60-70 years old. Disston is a good
brand, but my favorite is the Atkins "silver steel" saws. Harder to
find, but they don't rust like the Disstons, so older ones are usually
in better shape.


Or buy really good new. I have Adria and Lie Nielsen backsaws, and like
them a lot. $130ish each, but worth it.

The Handtools forum at www.woodcentral.com has lots of folks, including
many makers of the tools, in daily discussions. Generally interesting to
read.

Patriarch

The Japanese _do_ still make them like they used to but you pay
accordingly.

Oh, I get the Japan Woodworker catalog - I know what's up :-) And of
course there's Lie Nielson, but these might be a bit much for someone
who doesn't have a lot of experience and doesn't know just how much he
enjoys using handsaws...
Having looked at the catalog, JW does have a number of saws $40.

Doug wrote:
I'm primarily a power tool user, but am becoming more interested in
hand tools. I had a pull saw that I picked up from HD last year, but
some the teeth sheared off, and I didn't replace the blade. I'm
interested now in getting a decent quality handsaw to have as a sort of
all purpose saw. I'd like to use it to work on my hand cut dovetail
skill, and for other jointery work. Does anyone have any suggestions
of a specific type or saw I might consider?
Thanks


Have a look at the PAX hand saws. They have been made in
Sheffield,England since 1776. They still make them like they used too...

URL:http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=d7eef8c3f22ff6456c1514d9c9 549586&Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Cod e=PZ-PAXTEN.XX&Category_Code=TMQ
URL:http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=d7eef8c3f22ff6456c1514d9c9 549586&Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Cod e=PZ-HS303.XX&Category_Code=TMQ

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 02:21:56 -0500, Gordon Airporte wrote:

The Japanese _do_ still make them like they used to but you pay
accordingly.

Oh, I get the Japan Woodworker catalog - I know what's up :-) And of
course there's Lie Nielson, but these might be a bit much for someone
who doesn't have a lot of experience and doesn't know just how much he
enjoys using handsaws...
Having looked at the catalog, JW does have a number of saws $40.

And apparently they're pretty good, at least if the test in the last Fine
Woodworking is to be believed. Woodcraft has the Dozuki Z on sale for
under 30 bucks. I'm going to be going past there today, might
stop in and pick one up if they still have any.

FWIW, the Fine Woodworking test included some saws that were made by hand
by master craftsmen and the cheapies apparently worked as well or better.
Of course the Japanese are reputed to know a thing or two about making
sharp edges on steel.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:
FWIW, the Fine Woodworking test included some saws that were made by
hand
by master craftsmen and the cheapies apparently worked as well or better.
Of course the Japanese are reputed to know a thing or two about making
sharp edges on steel.


As romantic as it is, I'm skeptical that a hand-sharpened Japanese saw
could work as well as (or better than) machine filed teeth. And it looks
like Fine Woodworking confirmed it.

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 16:29:49 -0500, Gordon Airporte wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:
FWIW, the Fine Woodworking test included some saws that were made by
hand
by master craftsmen and the cheapies apparently worked as well or better.
Of course the Japanese are reputed to know a thing or two about making
sharp edges on steel.


As romantic as it is, I'm skeptical that a hand-sharpened Japanese saw
could work as well as (or better than) machine filed teeth. And it looks
like Fine Woodworking confirmed it.

One way or another I picked up a Dozuki Z at Woodcraft today, haven't had
a chance to play with it much yet, but it did zip through a piece of
sassafras far faster than I expected and the cut quality was about the
same as a Bosch jigsaw on the no-orbit setting with the good blades, which
is to say that it was smooth to the touch but not quite to the standard of
a WWII.

Never used a Japanese handsaw before--wish I'd known that they were as
good as they are.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)