Time for me to buy a dovetail jig. Is it necessar to spend a bundle? I have
a Porter-Cable 690 router. What are the options? It looks like Leigh D4R or
D1600 are the current way to go. Expensive, good, but are they the best
value? My first projects will be drawers and boxes. Thoughts from those who
actually use this set up and or make machined/hand dovetails would be
greatly appreciated.

Alan Smithee wrote:
Time for me to buy a dovetail jig. Is it necessar to spend a bundle? I have
a Porter-Cable 690 router. What are the options? It looks like Leigh D4R or
D1600 are the current way to go. Expensive, good, but are they the best
value? My first projects will be drawers and boxes. Thoughts from those who
actually use this set up and or make machined/hand dovetails would be
greatly appreciated.


Well, those Leigh jigs look really nice, but pretty pricey as well. You
also pay a lot for the privilege of having the capability to do 16" or
24" joints. Do you really need that for drawers and such?

I'm very happy with my Porter-Cable 4210 (12" capacity), which can be
found for a hundred bucks or so. Of course, if money was no object, I
guess I'd go with the Leigh.

Alan Smithee wrote:
Time for me to buy a dovetail jig. Is it necessar to spend a
bundle? I have
a Porter-Cable 690 router.

I recently purchased a 12" JET from Amazon which was very cost
effective when you factored in the discounts.

On the surface, it may look like a lot of other Far East knockoffs,
but it is well made, relatively easy to set up, IF you keep your wits
about you and follow the instruction manual.

I used it to make 34 dovetail joints which varied from 4" to 10" for a
chest of drawers using a PC690 equipped with a 7/16" brass guide
bushing and a 14 degree dovetail bit, both of which you will need to
purchase separately.

If I had it to do over, I'd buy the JET again.

Have fun.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
Alan Smithee wrote:
Time for me to buy a dovetail jig. Is it necessar to spend a
bundle? I have
a Porter-Cable 690 router.

I recently purchased a 12" JET from Amazon which was very cost
effective when you factored in the discounts.

On the surface, it may look like a lot of other Far East knockoffs,
but it is well made, relatively easy to set up, IF you keep your wits
about you and follow the instruction manual.

I used it to make 34 dovetail joints which varied from 4" to 10" for a
chest of drawers using a PC690 equipped with a 7/16" brass guide
bushing and a 14 degree dovetail bit, both of which you will need to
purchase separately.

If I had it to do over, I'd buy the JET again.

Have fun.

Lew

You forgot to tell him the JET only does half blind dovetails?

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Check out the latest issue of Fine Woodworking for their review.

cm
"Alan Smithee" wrote in message
news:qSt1h.222888$1T2.24473@pd7urf2no...
Time for me to buy a dovetail jig. Is it necessar to spend a bundle? I
have
a Porter-Cable 690 router. What are the options? It looks like Leigh D4R
or
D1600 are the current way to go. Expensive, good, but are they the best
value? My first projects will be drawers and boxes. Thoughts from those
who
actually use this set up and or make machined/hand dovetails would be
greatly appreciated.

Alan Smithee wrote:
Time for me to buy a dovetail jig. Is it necessar to spend a bundle? I have
a Porter-Cable 690 router. What are the options? It looks like Leigh D4R or
D1600 are the current way to go. Expensive, good, but are they the best
value? My first projects will be drawers and boxes. Thoughts from those who
actually use this set up and or make machined/hand dovetails would be
greatly appreciated.

I have the P-C jig and it works very well. I wanted to be able to
do full dovetails, and some others only did the half blind ones. Set
up wasn't bad, and once done, you can do a ton of dove tails for
drawers in a short period of time. I question whether the extra money
for the Leigh would be worth it. There is a tendency here to always
go "Rolls-Royce" when a Corvette is all you need for some serious
overkill.

I was fortunate enough to have been gifted an Akeda jig with all the
goodies. I love it. Set up is VERY easy and I made perfect through dovetails
on the first try. set up took a couple minutes. It took me more time to read
the instructions than to make the joints. I'd recommend the jig to anyone.
Cost like the leigh is high but well worth the money (if you have to pay for
it) (sorry I had to gloat a bit).


"Alan Smithee" wrote in message
news:qSt1h.222888$1T2.24473@pd7urf2no...
Time for me to buy a dovetail jig. Is it necessar to spend a bundle? I
have
a Porter-Cable 690 router. What are the options? It looks like Leigh D4R
or
D1600 are the current way to go. Expensive, good, but are they the best
value? My first projects will be drawers and boxes. Thoughts from those
who
actually use this set up and or make machined/hand dovetails would be
greatly appreciated.

In article qSt1h.222888$1T2.24473@pd7urf2no, "Alan Smithee" wrote:
Time for me to buy a dovetail jig. Is it necessar to spend a bundle? I have
a Porter-Cable 690 router. What are the options? It looks like Leigh D4R or
D1600 are the current way to go. Expensive, good, but are they the best
value? My first projects will be drawers and boxes. Thoughts from those who
actually use this set up and or make machined/hand dovetails would be
greatly appreciated.

I bought a Leigh D4 about three years ago. It works great, and I'm glad I have
it -- but, just the same, if I'm making only a single shallow drawer, I'll
hand-cut the dovetails. In the time it takes to get the jig out, set it up,
get the router adjusted, cut a couple of test pieces, test-fit them, tweak the
router a bit, cut a couple more test pieces, and test-fit them -- I'm more
than half-way done with the handcut joints. OTOH, for a single *deep* drawer,
I'll turn to the Leigh jig every time.

And for anything approaching a production run -- like when I re-did my kitchen
two years ago -- the Leigh is hard to beat. It's a pretty good-sized kitchen,
with 21 drawers and 36 pull-out trays in the base cabinets (also dovetailed),
and I'm *very* glad I didn't try to hand-cut all 228 dovetail joints!

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

I have a Porter Cable 4112 in new condition. Used once. $35.00 plus shipping
and it's yours.

"Alan Smithee" wrote in message
news:qSt1h.222888$1T2.24473@pd7urf2no...
Time for me to buy a dovetail jig. Is it necessar to spend a bundle? I
have
a Porter-Cable 690 router. What are the options? It looks like Leigh D4R
or
D1600 are the current way to go. Expensive, good, but are they the best
value? My first projects will be drawers and boxes. Thoughts from those
who
actually use this set up and or make machined/hand dovetails would be
greatly appreciated.

I looking at it now....thx...


"cm" wrote in message
...
Check out the latest issue of Fine Woodworking for their review.

cm
"Alan Smithee" wrote in message
news:qSt1h.222888$1T2.24473@pd7urf2no...
Time for me to buy a dovetail jig. Is it necessar to spend a bundle? I
have
a Porter-Cable 690 router. What are the options? It looks like Leigh D4R
or
D1600 are the current way to go. Expensive, good, but are they the best
value? My first projects will be drawers and boxes. Thoughts from those
who
actually use this set up and or make machined/hand dovetails would be
greatly appreciated.

Buy the Akeda Jig.

Alan Smithee wrote:
Time for me to buy a dovetail jig. Is it necessar to spend a bundle?
I have a Porter-Cable 690 router. What are the options? It looks like
Leigh D4R or D1600 are the current way to go. Expensive, good, but
are they the best value? My first projects will be drawers and boxes.
Thoughts from those who actually use this set up and or make
machined/hand dovetails would be greatly appreciated.

I bought two sizes of dovetail finger plates and screwed it to two blocks
wood like this...
http://www.kellerdovetail.com/models/1601.html
Made a clamping jig like this...
http://www.kellerdovetail.com/models/clamp.html
And screwed it to the side of my workbench.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

After many hints and open catalogs left lying in conspicuous places, my dear
wife bought me a Leigh D1600 for fathers day. Even a butcher like me can make
excellent joints with it. One of the magazines (Fine Woodworking) just did a
product review in their last issue. The D4R and D1600 were rated "best
overall", and the Porter-Cable 4212 captured "best value".

"Alan Smithee" wrote in message
news:qSt1h.222888$1T2.24473@pd7urf2no...
Time for me to buy a dovetail jig. Is it necessar to spend a bundle? I
have
a Porter-Cable 690 router. What are the options? It looks like Leigh D4R
or
D1600 are the current way to go. Expensive, good, but are they the best
value? My first projects will be drawers and boxes. Thoughts from those
who
actually use this set up and or make machined/hand dovetails would be
greatly appreciated.

Here's a bargain for you.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...4&filter=incra

Seems too good to be true? It's not--it does everything they say and a good
deal more for 60 bucks. It was a good deal at 200 bucks, for 60 it's
amazing.

Major limitations are that it can't cut stock more than about 8 inches wide,
at least not without doing some fiddling, that it's slower than the Leigh
etc, that it requires a router table, and that you move the stock, not the
router, which can be a problem with large boards.

To get a feel for what it can do try some of the projects in
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2098 . You'll also want the full
template library http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11496 --I'm not
clear on what Rockler's including in the box though so hold off on both
until you see.

The 8 inch original model has some bigger brothers
http://www.incra.biz/Products/LSSuperSystem.html and one major competitor
http://www.jointech.com/woodworking1.htm .

Even if you end up going with the Leigh after trying the 60 buck Incra
you'll find that it remains a useful tool. I have a larger Incra jig on my
router table now and use the small one as a general purpose precision
positioner--it's handy with the table saw and with the drill press, so that
60 bucks won't be wasted.

"rich" wrote in message

drawers in a short period of time. I question whether the extra money
for the Leigh would be worth it. There is a tendency here to always
go "Rolls-Royce" when a Corvette is all you need for some serious
overkill.

Let there be NO doubt that the Leigh is "worth it" if one is more serious
about woodworking than the average weekend warrior, or if woodworking is a
source of income.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06

Alan Smithee wrote:
Time for me to buy a dovetail jig. Is it necessar to spend a bundle? I have
a Porter-Cable 690 router. What are the options? It looks like Leigh D4R

I pulled out the long dollar and bought a D4R based on discussions with
other users, much of it here. My main priorities we

- Adjustable spacing
- Half & through DT's
- Ease of setup and use

The D4R has totally blown me away, and I'd buy it again. I wouldn't
call it "easy" to use, but the manual is probably the best written,
easiest to follow example of documentation I've EVER seen. If I follow
ALL the steps, in the order written, I get perfect results every time.

I didn't think I'd need the width, but I've learned to use both ends for
different setups.

I _still_ haven't even bothered to watch the DVD included with the jig.
The manual is that good! G

If you only need one kind of DT, or don't care about spacing, save money
and look elsewhere. The D4R fits my requirements, yours may be different.

Yeah it's a definite contender....but I'm Canadian so the Leigh might have
the advantage...I like the thinking in the Akeda though...hmmm

"Snog" wrote in message
ups.com...
Buy the Akeda Jig.

I'm thinking the Leigh (or the Akeda) would pay for itself on the first
freelance job...

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"rich" wrote in message

drawers in a short period of time. I question whether the extra money
for the Leigh would be worth it. There is a tendency here to always
go "Rolls-Royce" when a Corvette is all you need for some serious
overkill.

Let there be NO doubt that the Leigh is "worth it" if one is more serious
about woodworking than the average weekend warrior, or if woodworking is a
source of income.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/29/06

Depends on your needs but the Porter Cable would be hard to beat
for the money.

http://www.portercable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=5839

The real nice Omnijig that was introduced at the IWF has not
brought out yet but that is going to be a killer product. I
got a peek at the jig at the show. It will very easily
compare to the Leigh jig. Prices were not available.

For garden variety work, the above jig is quite nice and
is currently about $169.

The Leigh is a fine jig but I find that a jig with a
400 page manual is just a wee bit much. I also think that
it is vastly overpriced.

Norm is probably responsible for that since he made it
famous.




Alan Smithee wrote:
Time for me to buy a dovetail jig. Is it necessar to spend a bundle? I have
a Porter-Cable 690 router. What are the options? It looks like Leigh D4R or
D1600 are the current way to go. Expensive, good, but are they the best
value? My first projects will be drawers and boxes. Thoughts from those who
actually use this set up and or make machined/hand dovetails would be
greatly appreciated.

Pat Barber wrote:

The Leigh is a fine jig but I find that a jig with a
400 page manual is just a wee bit much.

Have you used the jig?

I only ask because the manual has discrete sections, which you use based
on the particular joint you need to cut. Some of the information is
repeated in every section. Once you've cut a type of DT, the next pass
through the manual is more like a checklist vs. a detailed read. A good
30-40 pages of the manual is devoted to initial assembly, and another
large chunk is devoted to detailed theory of how each operation works.
Typical operations are 8-10 pages long.

Had I not used the jig, I'd agree with you about the daunting size of
the manual. G I still haven't bothered to read the theory sections.

"Alan Smithee" wrote in
news:VuJ1h.229423$1T2.106962@pd7urf2no:

Yeah it's a definite contender....but I'm Canadian so the Leigh might
have the advantage...I like the thinking in the Akeda though...hmmm

"Snog" wrote in message
ups.com...
Buy the Akeda Jig.





The Akeda is a very nice tool. There are some limitations, but these are
things that should be overcome with a dovetail saw and chisels. The Akeda
makes beautiful joints.

Patriarch

Alan Smithee wrote:
I'm thinking the Leigh (or the Akeda) would pay for itself on the first
freelance job...

I have the leigh d4. To me, this definitly falls into the category of
cry once. To me, the variable spacing is was sold me. The akeda
wasn't out when I bought it.

The only thing the akeda has over the leigh is dust collection. You
can get this router attachment from leigh that helps with the dust
collection, but it's only a partial solution. I plan to experiment
with a plexi box to see if I can improve the situation.

The d1600 would be an option only if you knew you would never want to
do casework, i.e. drawers only. The project I'm working on now will
use 22" long dovetails for the case. With the d1600, you also lose the
ability to do variable thickness pins.

You also have the isoloc templates and the other attachments if you
want to use those. I think they're overpriced so I'm waiting to get
one on sale or something.

Another thing you may want to consider is the table saw. There was an
article a few years back (FWW iirc) where this guy had a table saw
blade reground so that the bevel on all the teeth went the same way at
the dovetail angle. Then he would tilt the blade to the same angle.
Then he could gang-cut all the drawers at the same time. He was left
with a little waste that he cleaned out with a scroll saw. Pins were
cut with a dado set. The advantage here is that you can make the pins
as skinny as the saw blade thickness, whereas with a router, you're
limited by the shank size on the router bit. I haven't experimented
with this yet, but it's on the agenda.

brian

Alan Smithee wrote:
I'm thinking the Leigh (or the Akeda) would pay for itself on the first
freelance job...

I have the leigh d4. To me, this definitly falls into the category of
cry once. To me, the variable spacing is was sold me. The akeda
wasn't out when I bought it.

The only thing the akeda has over the leigh is dust collection. You
can get this router attachment from leigh that helps with the dust
collection, but it's only a partial solution. I plan to experiment
with a plexi box to see if I can improve the situation.

The d1600 would be an option only if you knew you would never want to
do casework, i.e. drawers only. The project I'm working on now will
use 22" long dovetails for the case. With the d1600, you also lose the
ability to do variable thickness pins.

You also have the isoloc templates and the other attachments if you
want to use those. I think they're overpriced so I'm waiting to get
one on sale or something.

Another thing you may want to consider is the table saw. There was an
article a few years back (FWW iirc) where this guy had a table saw
blade reground so that the bevel on all the teeth went the same way at
the dovetail angle. Then he would tilt the blade to the same angle.
Then he could gang-cut all the drawers at the same time. He was left
with a little waste that he cleaned out with a scroll saw. Pins were
cut with a dado set. The advantage here is that you can make the pins
as skinny as the saw blade thickness, whereas with a router, you're
limited by the shank size on the router bit. I haven't experimented
with this yet, but it's on the ajenda.

brian

Alan Smithee wrote:

Time for me to buy a dovetail jig. Is it necessar to spend a bundle? I have
a Porter-Cable 690 router. What are the options? It looks like Leigh D4R or
D1600 are the current way to go. Expensive, good, but are they the best
value? My first projects will be drawers and boxes. Thoughts from those who
actually use this set up and or make machined/hand dovetails would be
greatly appreciated.

At some point, if you don't already have one, you're gonna have a
router table. And it's gonna have a fence. And if you want to do
half blinds and through dovetails, as well as box/finger joints and
perhaps DrawerLok or MiterLock joints, maybe even raised panel
doors or box lids - you're gonna look at Incra and JoinTech fence
"systems" because a shop made, clamp on fence ain't gonna do it.

I skipped over the dovetail jigs and got the JoinTech - which I
highly
recomend. Replaceable zero clearance fence inserts, dust collection
through the inside of the sqaure extruded fence, T-slots on top for
attaching hold downs, stops etc., fence moveable in 0.001" increments
(click indicators for each step of course), . . .

The jigs - well you'll only use them for dovetails and maybe finger
joints. A router table, with the JoinTech Cabinet Maker System -
well that'll get used a LOT more often - and you don't have to buy
"special" router bits.

Now if you have a cabinet saw with an extension table, and your
router is mounted in the extension table, JoinTech has the Saw
Train - which does everything the Cabinet Maker System does
PLUS you have a precision positionable fence.

When you think of machine making dovetails - skip the jigs and
get a JoinTech!

http://www.jointech.com/

Here's my router table set up - ALL the joinery done with the
JoinTech. And this was my second or third woodworking
project.

http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/RouterTable.html

Before you buy a "jig" at least have a look at what this puppy
can do.

charlie b
other than being a very satisfied customer, I have no connection
with JoinTech.

My sweetie bought me the larger Leigh a couple of years ago and I bought all
the router bits they show in their book from Amana. My first call for
dovetails was on my bench and I needed half-blind on 8/4 sides but the Leigh
wouldn't do that thick, so I did them by hand (saw/chisel).
I did use it on some drawers of euro beach and it worked ok except for
tearout although it spends most of it's life hanging on the wall. It does
work better for cutting tails, i don't like the pins, so I sometimes use it
for that and then cut the pins by hand. I think it their demo is on
basswood or something.
Anyway, for a jig i think the adjustable part is important, i noticed that
many are not, but for the most part i find it easier and faster to do it by
hand for a box or few drawers, probably would use the jig if I were doing
many drawers or boxes the same.
At first I thought only a sadistic person or woodnerd would do dovetail by
hand but have since found it pretty easy to get perfect fitting joints by
hand.

regards, m
"Alan Smithee" wrote in message
news:qSt1h.222888$1T2.24473@pd7urf2no...
Time for me to buy a dovetail jig. Is it necessar to spend a bundle? I
have
a Porter-Cable 690 router. What are the options? It looks like Leigh D4R
or
D1600 are the current way to go. Expensive, good, but are they the best
value? My first projects will be drawers and boxes. Thoughts from those
who
actually use this set up and or make machined/hand dovetails would be
greatly appreciated.

"charlie b" wrote in message
...


At some point, if you don't already have one, you're gonna have a
router table. And it's gonna have a fence. And if you want to do
half blinds and through dovetails, as well as box/finger joints and
perhaps DrawerLok or MiterLock joints, maybe even raised panel
doors or box lids - you're gonna look at Incra and JoinTech fence
"systems" because a shop made, clamp on fence ain't gonna do it.


I've had Incra Jigs for years, and I love them for some work, especially fancy
or "creative" projects.

But for repetitive tasks, like building drawers, they're a tedious PITA with
continuous resetting and multiple passes. My Leigh D1600 is far easier to setup
(just once), and a single pass cuts all the pins (or tails) with absolute
accuracy (no chance of ruining a workpiece by being "off one notch" when moving
the fence).

Hans

I've been working my way up though the less expensive jigs with mixed
success. I started with a Craftsman that didn't hold the work very
well. I upgraded to the Porter Cable 4112 which works well but
doesn't do through dovetails. When the Porter Cable 4212 Deluxe model
came out for $150 and it did through dovetails, I jumped on it and
thought I was done. However, I don't like the looks of the 4212
joints, they seem too big for draws and the bits provided with the jig
are very low angle (7 degrees?). This low angle results in dovetails
that almost look like box joints. For my last project with draws, I
went back to the 4112. The bottom line here for me is that I'm on my
third jig, am not happy, and have spent almost as much at the cost of a
Leigh...

Scott

why not try the Woodrat ????

Ah. That's a neat trick. Use either end of the jig. One side for tails and
the other for pins....

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
om...
Alan Smithee wrote:
Time for me to buy a dovetail jig. Is it necessar to spend a bundle? I
have
a Porter-Cable 690 router. What are the options? It looks like Leigh D4R

I pulled out the long dollar and bought a D4R based on discussions with
other users, much of it here. My main priorities we

- Adjustable spacing
- Half & through DT's
- Ease of setup and use

The D4R has totally blown me away, and I'd buy it again. I wouldn't
call it "easy" to use, but the manual is probably the best written,
easiest to follow example of documentation I've EVER seen. If I follow
ALL the steps, in the order written, I get perfect results every time.

I didn't think I'd need the width, but I've learned to use both ends for
different setups.

I _still_ haven't even bothered to watch the DVD included with the jig.
The manual is that good! G

If you only need one kind of DT, or don't care about spacing, save money
and look elsewhere. The D4R fits my requirements, yours may be different.

I would also consider Stots: http://stots.com/ It is dramatically
less expensive than everything else mentioned here.

Mark

"Mark Wells" wrote in message
ups.com...
I would also consider Stots: http://stots.com/ It is dramatically
less expensive than everything else mentioned here.

Now that's neat. Not all _that_ much cheaper than Rockler's 60 buck Incra
when you throw in the cost of a sheet of MDF but still that's neat.

Alan Smithee wrote:
Ah. That's a neat trick. Use either end of the jig. One side for tails and
the other for pins....

Not exactly. G

You use the same setup for matching pins and tails, but use opposite
ends of the jig for different layouts at each end of the board.

I learned it here!