I've sort of been thinking lately that what separates a good furniture maker
from a great furniture maker is grace and style. You know the Maloof
factor. We've all seen great craftsmanship... All the joints and finish
perfect, but it looks out of proportion. Legs too fat, long, short, table
too thick and so on. Grace and style or having the right proportion for the
piece is the hard part for me.. I can't tell you how often I've seen a
piece and just want to take out the tape measure and go to work on copying
it, but the guy has it for sale and I don't think he'd appreciate that too
much. How do you learn grace and style in furniture making or is it
something you have to be born with..

Jim Hall wrote:
I've sort of been thinking lately that what separates a good
furniture maker from a great furniture maker is grace and style. You
know the Maloof factor. We've all seen great craftsmanship... All
the joints and finish perfect, but it looks out of proportion. Legs
too fat, long, short, table too thick and so on. Grace and style or
having the right proportion for the piece is the hard part for me..
I can't tell you how often I've seen a piece and just want to take
out the tape measure and go to work on copying it, but the guy has it
for sale and I don't think he'd appreciate that too much. How do you
learn grace and style in furniture making or is it something you have
to be born with..

I think its a case of having a good eye for detail along with an artistic
presence within the individual.

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

"Jim Hall" wrote in
news:yj5Mg.3577$TA5.3054@fed1read09:

I've sort of been thinking lately that what separates a good furniture
maker from a great furniture maker is grace and style. You know the
Maloof factor. We've all seen great craftsmanship... All the joints
and finish perfect, but it looks out of proportion. Legs too fat,
long, short, table too thick and so on. Grace and style or having the
right proportion for the piece is the hard part for me.. I can't tell
you how often I've seen a piece and just want to take out the tape
measure and go to work on copying it, but the guy has it for sale and
I don't think he'd appreciate that too much. How do you learn grace
and style in furniture making or is it something you have to be born
with..



Being born with it helps. ;-)

But spending some serious time with the classics in all areas of life helps
one to understand balance, proportion and blending of aspects, such that
one has an harmonious whole.

I have four grown sons. One of them has the eye for design. The others
have other talents.

Keep at it. You can learn this stuff.

Patriarch

Thu, Sep 7, 2006, 8:19pm (EDT-3) (Jim*Hall)
snip We've all seen great craftsmanship... All the joints and finish
perfect, but it looks out of proportion. Legs too fat, long, short,
table too thick and so on. snip

Grace and style, eh? Nice for the "artistes" I guess, but I've
seen damn all little stuff from those types I'd own, even if it wasn't
so vastly overpriced.. You make an arm chair with "grace and style"
with all the "right proportions" and the a prospective woman customer
gets stuck in it because she's wider than the chair. Or, she surpasses
the weight limit of the chair. I'm more for useful, then all that. You
get a woman, maybe 4 feet tall, who's a bit wide, so she'may take a
chair with the "right proportions" - except it's too tall for her to get
on without a step-stool - I say the Hell with that, and say make her a
chair with short legs. Or, legs strong engou to support a larger woman.
I've got nothing against furniture looking good, but I would imagine
that my sense of the "right proportion" is remarkably different from
yours. My idea of grace and style, and right proportions in furniture
is pretty much to Stickley. And some Frank Lloyd Wright. Maloof makes
some nice stuff, but nothing that thrills me all that much..



JOAT
I am not paranoid. I do not "think" people are after me. I "know" damn
well they're after me.

Some people like the classical style, some the modern style, others the
log cabin style. Do your own thing and make it to suit yourself. You
can't please everyone, so please yourself. Your improved
craftsmanship, you will learn in time, will speak for itself. In 30
years, I'm sure you'll have a nice history of your progress and
accomplishments toward this end. It may not be your specific goal,
ie., to excel in this department, ...it will simply evolve.

Sonny

"Jim Hall" wrote in message I've sort of been thinking lately that what
separates a good furniture maker
from a great furniture maker is grace and style. You know the Maloof
factor. We've all seen great craftsmanship... All the joints and finish
perfect, but it looks out of proportion. Legs too fat, long, short, table
too thick and so on. Grace and style or having the right proportion for
the
piece is the hard part for me.. I can't tell you how often I've seen a
piece and just want to take out the tape measure and go to work on copying
it, but the guy has it for sale and I don't think he'd appreciate that too
much. How do you learn grace and style in furniture making or is it
something you have to be born with..

That's why Mission and Arts & Crafts was invented ... so you wouldn't have
to fool with all that crap.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/29/06

I love Stickley brother's stuff..! Their Morris chair is a classic. Usually
when I'm thinking of building something, I get out some scratch paper and
rough sketch out what I want and go from there and when I'm done. I'll say
to myself probably should have made this or that a little differently.
Maybe like everyone else. I'm thinking if I had a better visual tool where
I could refine the dimensions more precisely that would make a difference.
Maybe a CAD program would work. I'd hate to lose time building mock ups,
but that would probably be ideal.


"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Jim Hall" wrote in message I've sort of been thinking lately that what
separates a good furniture maker
from a great furniture maker is grace and style. You know the Maloof
factor. We've all seen great craftsmanship... All the joints and
finish
perfect, but it looks out of proportion. Legs too fat, long, short,
table
too thick and so on. Grace and style or having the right proportion for
the
piece is the hard part for me.. I can't tell you how often I've seen a
piece and just want to take out the tape measure and go to work on
copying
it, but the guy has it for sale and I don't think he'd appreciate that
too
much. How do you learn grace and style in furniture making or is it
something you have to be born with..

That's why Mission and Arts & Crafts was invented ... so you wouldn't have
to fool with all that crap.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/29/06

"Jim Hall" wrote in message

Maybe a CAD program would work. I'd hate to lose time building mock ups,
but that would probably be ideal.

The key is having the necessary neurons to be able to "see" a piece, that
doesn't exist, from different perspectives.

Most of us have to see the existing object, and often from different
perspectives, to appreciate what works and what doesn't.

I am firmly in the latter category.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/29/06

On Thu, 7 Sep 2006 20:19:05 -0700, "Jim Hall" wrote:

I've sort of been thinking lately that what separates a good furniture maker
from a great furniture maker is grace and style. You know the Maloof
factor. We've all seen great craftsmanship... All the joints and finish
perfect, but it looks out of proportion. Legs too fat, long, short, table
too thick and so on. Grace and style or having the right proportion for the
piece is the hard part for me.. I can't tell you how often I've seen a
piece and just want to take out the tape measure and go to work on copying
it, but the guy has it for sale and I don't think he'd appreciate that too
much. How do you learn grace and style in furniture making or is it
something you have to be born with..

My brother told me years ago that the difference between a box and a fine
cabinet was the router... and it does make a lot of difference..

OTOH, I always run flatwork projects by him first... he just has an "eye" for
proportion and perspective... I his case, he was born with it... In my case, it
doesn't seem to be something that can be learned..

Sort of like turning a bowl..
IMHO, knowing how to add a lip, undercut or decorative line is easy.... knowing
when and where is a gift you're born with..
Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

On Fri, 8 Sep 2006 01:44:33 -0400, (J T) wrote:

Thu, Sep 7, 2006, 8:19pm (EDT-3) (Jim*Hall)
snip We've all seen great craftsmanship... All the joints and finish
perfect, but it looks out of proportion. Legs too fat, long, short,
table too thick and so on. snip

Grace and style, eh? Nice for the "artistes" I guess, but I've
seen damn all little stuff from those types I'd own, even if it wasn't
so vastly overpriced.. You make an arm chair with "grace and style"
with all the "right proportions" and the a prospective woman customer
gets stuck in it because she's wider than the chair. Or, she surpasses
the weight limit of the chair. I'm more for useful, then all that. You
get a woman, maybe 4 feet tall, who's a bit wide, so she'may take a
chair with the "right proportions" - except it's too tall for her to get
on without a step-stool - I say the Hell with that, and say make her a
chair with short legs. Or, legs strong engou to support a larger woman.
I've got nothing against furniture looking good, but I would imagine
that my sense of the "right proportion" is remarkably different from
yours. My idea of grace and style, and right proportions in furniture
is pretty much to Stickley. And some Frank Lloyd Wright. Maloof makes
some nice stuff, but nothing that thrills me all that much..



JOAT
I am not paranoid. I do not "think" people are after me. I "know" damn
well they're after me.

But even simple stuff can be enhanced, bro...

I remember one of my first projects was a floor to ceiling bookcase... it looked
good to me and worked well..
Then my brother came over an added a few pieces of molding and ran a router with
a rounding bit over the shelf fronts and it became a piece of furniture...
Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

Jim Hall wrote:

I love Stickley brother's stuff..! Their Morris chair is a classic.

Except that it's not theirs. The Morris chair (and all the other good
stuff) was the proiduct of _Gustav_ Stickley. L & JG Stickley's own
designs always looked pedestrian in comparison. They were better
businessmen though, which is why the business is still around today,
churning out what are mainly Gustav's products.

Even Gustav was no great shakes as a designer. His real break came from
employing Harvey Ellis, however briefly. Now _there_ was a chap with
real design talent. I particularly like his ability to combine the
blockiness of American Craftsman furniture with the art nouveau like
inlays, reminiscent of Scottish styles of the time, like Mackintosh.
If you look through any of the old Stickly catalogues, Ellis' designs
are the ones that stand out.

Jim Hall wrote:

I've sort of been thinking lately that what separates a good furniture maker
from a great furniture maker is grace and style.

Maker or designer? They're rarely found together, in equal measure.

Most of what accounts for "good" design is still based on the
Renaissance, when aesthetic principles were codified according to
underlying geometry that goes back as far as the Greeks. The books of
Vitruvius and Palladio on architecture are still essential reading
today if you're to get the basics and the _vocabulary_ of proportion
based design.

We learn an awful lot too by studying past furniture. There's still
little to touch the best of the last 18th century, particularly
American Federal. A read of Jeffrey Greene's book "American Furniture"
is time well spent.

One of the best down-to-it tutorials I know of on furniture design, as
in the principles of classical proportion applied to historical period
furniture is Franklin Gottshall's sadly OOP and hard to find "How to
Design Period Furniture", ISBN 051702263X An excellent design guide
to anyone caring about either reproduction of names styles, or just
understanding the basic approaches to proportion.

Another good read is Frederick Wilbur's "Carving Architectural Detail
in Wood: The Classical Tradition" A book of two parts, one is obviously
a guide to the technical aspects of carving such details. Perhaps the
more interesting though is a very accessible history of architectural
details in the classic tradition of Greece, Rome and Palladio, through
to Colonial America.

mac davis wrote:

My brother told me years ago that the difference between a box and a fine
cabinet was the router... and it does make a lot of difference..

I used to think that too, when I knew sod all about sod all.

I still use a router, because I still have to crank out hack-work for
the Christmas trade.

Inspiring.. Thank you.. I do have, at least, Jeffrey Greene's book. Part
of a 31 book collection on furniture making I bought on Ebay a few months
ago.. An excellent book indeed. Thank you so much for you advice and
reading list..


wrote in message
oups.com...

Jim Hall wrote:

I've sort of been thinking lately that what separates a good furniture
maker
from a great furniture maker is grace and style.

Maker or designer? They're rarely found together, in equal measure.

Most of what accounts for "good" design is still based on the
Renaissance, when aesthetic principles were codified according to
underlying geometry that goes back as far as the Greeks. The books of
Vitruvius and Palladio on architecture are still essential reading
today if you're to get the basics and the _vocabulary_ of proportion
based design.

We learn an awful lot too by studying past furniture. There's still
little to touch the best of the last 18th century, particularly
American Federal. A read of Jeffrey Greene's book "American Furniture"
is time well spent.

One of the best down-to-it tutorials I know of on furniture design, as
in the principles of classical proportion applied to historical period
furniture is Franklin Gottshall's sadly OOP and hard to find "How to
Design Period Furniture", ISBN 051702263X An excellent design guide
to anyone caring about either reproduction of names styles, or just
understanding the basic approaches to proportion.

Another good read is Frederick Wilbur's "Carving Architectural Detail
in Wood: The Classical Tradition" A book of two parts, one is obviously
a guide to the technical aspects of carving such details. Perhaps the
more interesting though is a very accessible history of architectural
details in the classic tradition of Greece, Rome and Palladio, through
to Colonial America.

Thanks everyone for your comments and advice.

"Jim Hall" wrote in message
news:yj5Mg.3577$TA5.3054@fed1read09...
I've sort of been thinking lately that what separates a good furniture
maker
from a great furniture maker is grace and style. You know the Maloof
factor. We've all seen great craftsmanship... All the joints and finish
perfect, but it looks out of proportion. Legs too fat, long, short, table
too thick and so on. Grace and style or having the right proportion for
the
piece is the hard part for me.. I can't tell you how often I've seen a
piece and just want to take out the tape measure and go to work on copying
it, but the guy has it for sale and I don't think he'd appreciate that too
much. How do you learn grace and style in furniture making or is it
something you have to be born with..

Fri, Sep 8, 2006, 10:25pm (EDT-3) (Jim*Hall) doth
mumbel:
Thanks everyone for your comments and advice.

Ah, you wanted advice. That slipped by me the first time, because
you didn't use a question mark. Seems to be a LOT of that going on
around here.

You want to make "style and grace" furniture? Then you make what
YOU like, not just what someone else says it is. You see some furniture
you like, but you're uneasy asking if you can measure it, no prob.
Always carry a camera, and TAKE PICTUREs OF IT. If you want to
reference measurements, lay a ruler in the pictures. No prob.



JOAT
I am not paranoid. I do not "think" people are after me. I "know" damn
well they're after me.