Yes this is a proper post for this group! I just saw a wooden, fully
automatic rubber band gun. I was wondering if anyone had plans for this
thing. Check out the video.

http://www.fazed.org/video/?id=362

I really looks like a fun project. So if anyone could help.

Thanks

I really looks like a fun project. So if anyone could help.

Oh My! Sister Eustasia would go nuts if she knew this existed. Imagine
study hall.

RonB

http://win.xrea.jp/howto_p201.html But you may need another language
under your belt. Tom
bkf wrote:
Yes this is a proper post for this group! I just saw a wooden, fully
automatic rubber band gun. I was wondering if anyone had plans for this
thing. Check out the video.

http://www.fazed.org/video/?id=362

I really looks like a fun project. So if anyone could help.

Thanks

http://win.xrea.jp/howto_p201.html But you may need another language
under your belt. Tom
Google translate will work - sort of. It looks like classic Japanese
to English assembly instructions, but it may suffice.

Tom

wrote:
http://win.xrea.jp/howto_p201.html But you may need another language
under your belt. Tom
Google translate will work - sort of. It looks like classic Japanese
to English assembly instructions, but it may suffice.

Tom

Here's a link for google translate

http://tinyurl.com/egmwh

Too bad we can't have toys like that in the US. Here in NJ dodge ball
is already banned and now the wackos want to ban 'tag'

what we really need to ban is politicians!!
"RayV" wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
http://win.xrea.jp/howto_p201.html But you may need another language
under your belt. Tom
Google translate will work - sort of. It looks like classic Japanese
to English assembly instructions, but it may suffice.

Tom

Here's a link for google translate

http://tinyurl.com/egmwh

Too bad we can't have toys like that in the US. Here in NJ dodge ball
is already banned and now the wackos want to ban 'tag'

wrote:
http://win.xrea.jp/howto_p201.html But you may need another language
under your belt. Tom
Google translate will work - sort of. It looks like classic Japanese
to English assembly instructions, but it may suffice.

Tom

That first page was not for the full auto version. It doesn't look
like there is a how to page for the machine gun but maybe this will get
you started

http://tinyurl.com/zoewd

RayV wrote:


wrote:
http://win.xrea.jp/howto_p201.html But you may need another language
under your belt. Tom
Google translate will work - sort of. It looks like classic Japanese
to English assembly instructions, but it may suffice.

Tom

Here's a link for google translate

http://tinyurl.com/egmwh

Too bad we can't have toys like that in the US. Here in NJ dodge ball
is already banned

Whoa, stop. PLEASE tell me that that's a joke. PLEASE?!?!?!?

and now the wackos want to ban 'tag'

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Try this:

http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools

watch the wrap!

tom wrote:
http://win.xrea.jp/howto_p201.html But you may need another language
under your belt. Tom
bkf wrote:

Yes this is a proper post for this group! I just saw a wooden, fully
automatic rubber band gun. I was wondering if anyone had plans for this
thing. Check out the video.

http://www.fazed.org/video/?id=362

I really looks like a fun project. So if anyone could help.

Thanks

Check this one out.....plans available...

http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/


bkf wrote:

Yes this is a proper post for this group! I just saw a wooden, fully
automatic rubber band gun. I was wondering if anyone had plans for this
thing. Check out the video.

http://www.fazed.org/video/?id=362

I really looks like a fun project. So if anyone could help.

Thanks

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
RayV wrote:


wrote:
http://win.xrea.jp/howto_p201.html But you may need another language
under your belt. Tom
Google translate will work - sort of. It looks like classic Japanese
to English assembly instructions, but it may suffice.

Tom

Here's a link for google translate

http://tinyurl.com/egmwh

Too bad we can't have toys like that in the US. Here in NJ dodge ball
is already banned

Whoa, stop. PLEASE tell me that that's a joke. PLEASE?!?!?!?

What about dodge bean bag?

My son, a rough and tumble 11 year old, just finished grade six, the
last year at a school full of cowardly women teachers. No tackle football;
someone might get hurt. No floor hockey; someone might get hurt. No
climbing on the top monkey bar; someone might get hurt. He is so physically
repressed all day he can hardly learn a thing sitting with the little girls
following rules and not letting his limbs slip out of an imaginary box. So
most of the winter I walk to the hockey rink with him, where everyone's
equipped with weapons of wood, sharpened steel, hard cold rubber, and good
old common sense. Spring, summer and fall we take to the street together,
and okay, we watch for cars, but that's about it. I wonder what his
teachers would think of the stilts we made last week? My son measured and
drilled all the holes for the footrests and screwed it all together with the
power tool. Nobody got hurt. Sheesh.

and now the wackos want to ban 'tag'

I'd like to ban those tags they stick to apples. Man those are annoying!

- Owen -

lol imagine a years detention for her at school... I got to make one..


Al



"RonB" wrote in message
news:wtRvg.28545$nK.16949@dukeread05...

I really looks like a fun project. So if anyone could help.

Oh My! Sister Eustasia would go nuts if she knew this existed. Imagine
study hall.

RonB

J. Clarke wrote:
RayV wrote:


Whoa, stop. PLEASE tell me that that's a joke. PLEASE?!?!?!?

and now the wackos want to ban 'tag'


I wish I was joking. Our overprotective politicians are busy trying to
make all kids pansies.

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition...27_dom.art.htm
http://www.politicalgateway.com/news/read/21708
http://texaseagle.org/torch/05-02.html#dodgeball

RayV wrote:


J. Clarke wrote:
RayV wrote:


Whoa, stop. PLEASE tell me that that's a joke. PLEASE?!?!?!?

and now the wackos want to ban 'tag'


I wish I was joking. Our overprotective politicians are busy trying to
make all kids pansies.


http://www.usatoday.com/printedition...27_dom.art.htm
http://www.politicalgateway.com/news/read/21708
http://texaseagle.org/torch/05-02.html#dodgeball

Maybe this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Sooner or later
the "educators" are going to do something that is so clearly loony-tune
that everyone in the body politic will recognize that they have no business
being trusted with children. This may be it.

In my book "educators" rank with politicians, lawyers, and journalists. The
only ones who are any good are the ones who fight the system and most of
those go nuts after a while or burn out and change careers to something
clean like sewer worker.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

bkf wrote:
Yes this is a proper post for this group! I just saw a wooden, fully
automatic rubber band gun. I was wondering if anyone had plans for this
thing. Check out the video.

http://www.fazed.org/video/?id=362

I really looks like a fun project. So if anyone could help.

Thanks

Plans you can buy
http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/plans.php
http://www.gcwoodworks.com/rubber_ba...n_woodwork.htm
plans with parts
http://www.surefireproducts.com/html/kits_plans.html
or buy one already built
http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/

This thread make me wonder about our society's changes. When I was a
Freshman in high school the coach took all the boys in "health" class and
asked to see our pocket knives. If you didn't have one you were told to get
one by the next day. If it wasn't sharp you were told to sharpen it, and the
coach meant sharp enough to shave you arm with. Didn't know how to sharpen
it, get your dad or some other man to teach you, no excuse accepted. Then
came the class on how to use it, basically it is a tool not a weapon.
Failure to comply with the coach meant a trip to see " The Assistant
principal", never even heard of anybody cutting anyone with a knife while I
was in school. Although there were a few mumbledy peg injurys. Now I have
to send a written note to school to allow my kid to carry a key with him.

Wow!
I did not think I was going to start such a thread. Along the lines of
knives at school. My dad was in the gun club AT school (Seattle, 1956) He
had to bring his .22 to school every Tuesday. I don't think any public
schools have gun clubs anymore. lol

Blaine


"sweetsawdust" wrote in message
. ..
This thread make me wonder about our society's changes. When I was a
Freshman in high school the coach took all the boys in "health" class and
asked to see our pocket knives. If you didn't have one you were told to
get
one by the next day. If it wasn't sharp you were told to sharpen it, and
the
coach meant sharp enough to shave you arm with. Didn't know how to sharpen
it, get your dad or some other man to teach you, no excuse accepted. Then
came the class on how to use it, basically it is a tool not a weapon.
Failure to comply with the coach meant a trip to see " The Assistant
principal", never even heard of anybody cutting anyone with a knife while
I
was in school. Although there were a few mumbledy peg injurys. Now I have
to send a written note to school to allow my kid to carry a key with him.

BKF wrote:
Wow!
I did not think I was going to start such a thread. Along the lines of
knives at school. My dad was in the gun club AT school (Seattle, 1956) He
had to bring his .22 to school every Tuesday. I don't think any public
schools have gun clubs anymore. lol

Blaine


There are still a bunch of them...

http://www.usashooting.com/index.php...Book&func=main


--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

(Remove -SPAM- to send email)

"no(SPAM)vasys" wrote in message
...
BKF wrote:
Wow!
I did not think I was going to start such a thread. Along the lines of
knives at school. My dad was in the gun club AT school (Seattle, 1956)
He
had to bring his .22 to school every Tuesday. I don't think any public
schools have gun clubs anymore. lol

Blaine


There are still a bunch of them...

http://www.usashooting.com/index.php...Book&func=main

Run by the public school system?

http://directory.fsf.org/devel/glue.html



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Your sons teachers, or those directing them, know exactly what they
are doing. It is part and parcel of the feminist movement. It's one
of the reasons that girls so outnumber boys in our universities. Our
male children are being totally emasculated. If the boy does not
willing accept that emasculation he will be classified "hyperactive"
and drugged (Ritalin, et al) into the submissive behavior the
feminist/liberals seek. I wish there were more parents like you so
that I could hold out a bit of hope for our country.

My son, a rough and tumble 11 year old, just finished grade six, the
last year at a school full of cowardly women teachers. No tackle football;
someone might get hurt. No floor hockey; someone might get hurt. No
climbing on the top monkey bar; someone might get hurt. He is so physically
repressed all day he can hardly learn a thing sitting with the little girls
following rules and not letting his limbs slip out of an imaginary box. So
most of the winter I walk to the hockey rink with him, where everyone's
equipped with weapons of wood, sharpened steel, hard cold rubber, and good
old common sense. Spring, summer and fall we take to the street together,
and okay, we watch for cars, but that's about it. I wonder what his
teachers would think of the stilts we made last week? My son measured and
drilled all the holes for the footrests and screwed it all together with the
power tool. Nobody got hurt. Sheesh.

and now the wackos want to ban 'tag'

I'd like to ban those tags they stick to apples. Man those are annoying!

- Owen -

Joe Bleau wrote:

Your sons teachers, or those directing them, know exactly what they
are doing.

They aren't that smart.

It is part and parcel of the feminist movement. It's one
of the reasons that girls so outnumber boys in our universities. Our
male children are being totally emasculated. If the boy does not
willing accept that emasculation he will be classified "hyperactive"
and drugged (Ritalin, et al) into the submissive behavior the
feminist/liberals seek.

I have some first hand experience with Ritalin. It does _not_ "drug one
into submissive behavior". It _can_ give one enough self control to get
even without getting caught though. Trust me on this, ADHD is real and it
sucks to live inside it.

I used to believe the same thing that you do. Then I found out first hand
what the stuff does.

I wish there were more parents like you so
that I could hold out a bit of hope for our country.

My son, a rough and tumble 11 year old, just finished grade six, the
last year at a school full of cowardly women teachers. No tackle
football;
someone might get hurt. No floor hockey; someone might get hurt. No
climbing on the top monkey bar; someone might get hurt. He is so
physically repressed all day he can hardly learn a thing sitting with the
little girls
following rules and not letting his limbs slip out of an imaginary box.
So most of the winter I walk to the hockey rink with him, where everyone's
equipped with weapons of wood, sharpened steel, hard cold rubber, and good
old common sense. Spring, summer and fall we take to the street together,
and okay, we watch for cars, but that's about it. I wonder what his
teachers would think of the stilts we made last week? My son measured and
drilled all the holes for the footrests and screwed it all together with
the
power tool. Nobody got hurt. Sheesh.

and now the wackos want to ban 'tag'

I'd like to ban those tags they stick to apples. Man those are annoying!

- Owen -


--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message

I have some first hand experience with Ritalin. It does _not_ "drug one
into submissive behavior". It _can_ give one enough self control to get
even without getting caught though. Trust me on this, ADHD is real and it
sucks to live inside it.

I used to believe the same thing that you do. Then I found out first hand
what the stuff does.

Like all things, there is some truth to it. The problem is mis-use. A kid
does one thing in class and the teachers want him drugged to be docile.
Teachers and administrators don't want discipline (and don't know how) ,
they want kids that will just sit and be quiet because they don't know how
to handle them.

In our school system, 15% of the kids are labeled as "special needs" I
cannot accept that.

It is less of not knowing how than it is not being allowed to.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. net...
Teachers and administrators don't want discipline (and don't know how) ,
they want kids that will just sit and be quiet because they don't know how
to handle them.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message

I have some first hand experience with Ritalin. It does _not_ "drug one
into submissive behavior". It _can_ give one enough self control to get
even without getting caught though. Trust me on this, ADHD is real and
it sucks to live inside it.

I used to believe the same thing that you do. Then I found out first
hand what the stuff does.

Like all things, there is some truth to it. The problem is mis-use. A kid
does one thing in class and the teachers want him drugged to be docile.

First, it is unlawful in many states for teachers to even suggest that a kid
be medicated. Second, if they want the kid to be "docile" Ritalin is not
the med to do it. Go down to Starbucks and have them lay out 20 or so
shots of espresso and drink one after another until you're starting to get
a little buzzed and you've got an idea of what it's like to be on a _very_
high dose of Ritalin, only the coffee is going to give you more side
effects and not last as long. Then ask yourself if that is the
prescription for making a kid "docile".

I'm sorry, but this "drugging our kids into submission" business is one of
my hot buttons. There may be meds that will make a kid "docile" and "sit
quietly" but unless the kid really does have a problem Ritalin is not one
of them.

Teachers and administrators don't want discipline (and don't know how) ,
they want kids that will just sit and be quiet because they don't know how
to handle them.

You can "discipline" an ADHD kid until you're blue in the face and he won't
sit quietly and pay attention because he _can_ _not_ _do_ _it_. He may sit
quietly but the only way he can do that is to put his mind somewhere far
from the classroom.

In our school system, 15% of the kids are labeled as "special needs" I
cannot accept that.

You think the schools _want_ that? Every single "special needs" kid is a
sink into which piles of their scant resources get poured. Yes, there is a
little federal assistance that comes in. It doesn't come close to covering
the costs. Further, "special needs" != ADHD. Some kids with ADHD are also
special needs, others are not. Talk to some parents of ADHD kids and see
how hard they had to battle to get some help for the kid from the school if
you think that a diagnosis of ADHD automatically results in classification
as special needs.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message

First, it is unlawful in many states for teachers to even suggest that a
kid
be medicated.

Techers have suggested the child see a doctor, then the doctor prescribes
Ritalin. I've seen this in my family so I know it to be true, at least in
our school system.



You can "discipline" an ADHD kid until you're blue in the face and he
won't
sit quietly and pay attention because he _can_ _not_ _do_ _it_. He may
sit
quietly but the only way he can do that is to put his mind somewhere far
from the classroom.

I don't doubt you, but you are talking a true ADHD child, not one that has
just has poor parenting and no discipline at home and none is given in the
school either. Just give the kid a label and be done with him.


In our school system, 15% of the kids are labeled as "special needs" I
cannot accept that.

You think the schools _want_ that? Every single "special needs" kid is a
sink into which piles of their scant resources get poured. Yes, there is
a
little federal assistance that comes in. It doesn't come close to
covering
the costs. Further, "special needs" != ADHD. Some kids with ADHD are
also
special needs, others are not. Talk to some parents of ADHD kids and see
how hard they had to battle to get some help for the kid from the school
if
you think that a diagnosis of ADHD automatically results in classification
as special needs.

Again, I don't "think" anything. I've seen it. There are many things wrong
in most every school system. Part is the parents, part is the school, part
is the few teachers that are lazy and incompetent. With a little effort,
these kids would not be in the special needs section, they would be
mainstream and quite capable.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message

First, it is unlawful in many states for teachers to even suggest that a
kid
be medicated.

Techers have suggested the child see a doctor, then the doctor prescribes
Ritalin. I've seen this in my family so I know it to be true, at least in
our school system.

If the doctor doesn't find a problem then why does the doctor prescribe a
medication? Incidentally, due to the political incorrectness of Ritalin, a
new non-stimulant medication called "Strattera" is more commonly
prescribed. It has much the same primary effect but the side effects are a
bitch. But it's not one of those eeeeeeeevvvvvvviiiiiiilllllll stimulants.

You can "discipline" an ADHD kid until you're blue in the face and he
won't
sit quietly and pay attention because he _can_ _not_ _do_ _it_. He may
sit
quietly but the only way he can do that is to put his mind somewhere far
from the classroom.

I don't doubt you, but you are talking a true ADHD child, not one that has
just has poor parenting and no discipline at home and none is given in the
school either. Just give the kid a label and be done with him.

And of course you can without ever seeing the kid determine that the problem
is poor parenting and no discipline at home while the physician who
examines him cannot.

In our school system, 15% of the kids are labeled as "special needs" I
cannot accept that.

You think the schools _want_ that? Every single "special needs" kid is a
sink into which piles of their scant resources get poured. Yes, there is
a
little federal assistance that comes in. It doesn't come close to
covering
the costs. Further, "special needs" != ADHD. Some kids with ADHD are
also
special needs, others are not. Talk to some parents of ADHD kids and see
how hard they had to battle to get some help for the kid from the school
if
you think that a diagnosis of ADHD automatically results in
classification as special needs.

Again, I don't "think" anything. I've seen it. There are many things
wrong
in most every school system.

What, specifically, have you seen?

Part is the parents, part is the school,
part
is the few teachers that are lazy and incompetent. With a little effort,
these kids would not be in the special needs section, they would be
mainstream and quite capable.

Special needs kids get mainstreamed with IEPs, not put in a "special needs
section". Been that way ever since IDEA went through. You think that
"lazy teachers" _want_ to have to prepare a different lesson plan for each
kid in the class? Because that's what having special needs kids means
these days.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message

If the doctor doesn't find a problem then why does the doctor prescribe a
medication?

It was a couple of years ago, but the school nurse was also an influence.



And of course you can without ever seeing the kid determine that the
problem
is poor parenting and no discipline at home while the physician who
examines him cannot.

Sure seems that way. We has some unruly kids in school, but we all got
through with no drugs. While there are some ADHD kids, it seems as though
there has been an explosion of them in recent years. Why is that



Again, I don't "think" anything. I've seen it. There are many things
wrong
in most every school system.

What, specifically, have you seen?

Lack of dicipline, teachers that do not know proper grammer and spelling
(I've actualy sent back teacher's notes with corrections on them) Teachers
for whom English is their second language trying to teach pronunciation of
English, forgeing accent included at no charge. Teachers that do not know
the subject matter, administrators that have no clue about administration,
budgets, purchasing, and other functions needed to operate a system with a
$15 million budget,


You think that
"lazy teachers" _want_ to have to prepare a different lesson plan for each
kid in the class? Because that's what having special needs kids means
these days.

Maybe in your school In ours, the teacher does not teach both, nor do they
have multiple lesson plans. That is the job of the Special Ed teacher and
assistants. The lazy teachers just push off the marginal students to
someone else.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. com...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message

If the doctor doesn't find a problem then why does the doctor prescribe
a
medication?

It was a couple of years ago, but the school nurse was also an influence.



And of course you can without ever seeing the kid determine that the
problem
is poor parenting and no discipline at home while the physician who
examines him cannot.

Sure seems that way. We has some unruly kids in school, but we all got
through with no drugs. While there are some ADHD kids, it seems as though
there has been an explosion of them in recent years. Why is that

It's the usual cycle. Big pharma comes up with a drug, doctors come up with
a desease to go with it.



Again, I don't "think" anything. I've seen it. There are many things
wrong
in most every school system.

What, specifically, have you seen?

Lack of dicipline, teachers that do not know proper grammer and spelling
(I've actualy sent back teacher's notes with corrections on them) Teachers
for whom English is their second language trying to teach pronunciation of
English, forgeing accent included at no charge. Teachers that do not know
the subject matter, administrators that have no clue about administration,
budgets, purchasing, and other functions needed to operate a system with
a
$15 million budget,


You think that
"lazy teachers" _want_ to have to prepare a different lesson plan for
each
kid in the class? Because that's what having special needs kids means
these days.

Maybe in your school In ours, the teacher does not teach both, nor do
they
have multiple lesson plans. That is the job of the Special Ed teacher and
assistants. The lazy teachers just push off the marginal students to
someone else.

In article ,
J. Clarke wrote:

...snipped...
You think the schools _want_ that? Every single "special needs" kid is a
sink into which piles of their scant resources get poured. Yes, there is a
little federal assistance that comes in. It doesn't come close to covering
the costs. Further, "special needs" != ADHD. Some kids with ADHD are also
special needs, others are not. Talk to some parents of ADHD kids and see
how hard they had to battle to get some help for the kid from the school if
you think that a diagnosis of ADHD automatically results in classification
as special needs.


Priorities and what "the schools want" vary. In my school district
there are schools where almost 50% of the kids have IEPs. The
individual school will get a greater share of the "scant resources"
and the student and family will get more services in theory. In
practice the needs of the "normal" kids as well as the special needs
kids are not the first priority of the school system, and both groups
are underserved.



--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message

If the doctor doesn't find a problem then why does the doctor prescribe a
medication?

It was a couple of years ago, but the school nurse was also an influence.

As of 2004 the school nurse if she even suggested the use of a controlled
substance would be in violation of Federal law.

And of course you can without ever seeing the kid determine that the
problem
is poor parenting and no discipline at home while the physician who
examines him cannot.

Sure seems that way. We has some unruly kids in school, but we all got
through with no drugs. While there are some ADHD kids, it seems as though
there has been an explosion of them in recent years. Why is that

There is a common misconception that "ADHD" and "unruly" are synonymous--I
suspect that the increase in ADHD diagnosis in recent years has been mostly
the result of increased recognition of the "inattentive" form, in which the
kid is not unruly at all, he just spends most of his time with his mind
somewhere else. In any case, if Ritalin makes an unruly kid less unruly it
means that the kid didn't want to be unruly in the first place--if he
_wants_ to be unruly Ritalin won't stop him.

Incidentally, my best friend in high school was on Dexedrine for ADHD (they
called it "hyperactivity" then but it's the same condition) in 1969. This
is nothing new.

Again, I don't "think" anything. I've seen it. There are many things
wrong
in most every school system.

What, specifically, have you seen?

Lack of dicipline,

Define "lack of discipline" and tell me where, specifically, you have seen
this.

teachers that do not know proper grammer and spelling
(I've actualy sent back teacher's notes with corrections on them)

Which has what, exactly, to do with anything we are discussing? If you want
to argue that the schools suck and the teachers are bumbling incompetents
you'll get little argument from me, but this has nothing to do with ADHD.

Teachers
for whom English is their second language trying to teach pronunciation of
English, forgeing accent included at no charge.

Again, what does this have to do with ADHD?

Teachers that do not know
the subject matter,

Been a long time since this was a requirement. I used to catch my teachers
in bloopers all the time and that was 40 years ago.

administrators that have no clue about administration,
budgets, purchasing, and other functions needed to operate a system with
a
$15 million budget,

Again, this has zip all to do with ADHD.

You think that
"lazy teachers" _want_ to have to prepare a different lesson plan for
each
kid in the class? Because that's what having special needs kids means
these days.

Maybe in your school In ours, the teacher does not teach both, nor do
they
have multiple lesson plans. That is the job of the Special Ed teacher and
assistants. The lazy teachers just push off the marginal students to
someone else.

If the student is already enrolled in the teacher's class then the teacher
does not have that option unless and until quite a lot has happened. You
might want to take a look at
http://www.ed.gov/parents/needs/speced/iepguide/index.html to see the
steps that must be followed before a kid can be placed in special
education. Note that parental consent is required just to _evaluate_ the
kid. It's not something a teacher can do unilaterally. Not anymore. The
IEP committee gets to decide whether the kid stays in that teacher's class
or is transferred to a different "mainstream" teacher or is placed in
special education for all or part of his schooling.

The most commonly expressed concern I hear is that kids are getting
mainstreamed who shouldn't be, not that kids are being placed in special ed
who shouldn't be.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

wrote:

In article ,
J. Clarke wrote:

...snipped...
You think the schools _want_ that? Every single "special needs" kid is a
sink into which piles of their scant resources get poured. Yes, there is
a
little federal assistance that comes in. It doesn't come close to
covering
the costs. Further, "special needs" != ADHD. Some kids with ADHD are
also
special needs, others are not. Talk to some parents of ADHD kids and see
how hard they had to battle to get some help for the kid from the school
if you think that a diagnosis of ADHD automatically results in
classification as special needs.


Priorities and what "the schools want" vary. In my school district
there are schools where almost 50% of the kids have IEPs. The
individual school will get a greater share of the "scant resources"

Does it get enough share to make up for the increased costs?

and the student and family will get more services in theory. In
practice the needs of the "normal" kids as well as the special needs
kids are not the first priority of the school system, and both groups
are underserved.

Bingo. Not the "push the marginal kids off into special ed" scenario that
Ed envisions.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
and the student and family will get more services in theory. In
practice the needs of the "normal" kids as well as the special needs
kids are not the first priority of the school system, and both groups
are underserved.

Bingo. Not the "push the marginal kids off into special ed" scenario that
Ed envisions.

I don't envision anything. I merely report what has actually happened in our
schools. I hope it does not happen in yours.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
and the student and family will get more services in theory. In
practice the needs of the "normal" kids as well as the special needs
kids are not the first priority of the school system, and both groups
are underserved.

Bingo. Not the "push the marginal kids off into special ed" scenario
that Ed envisions.

I don't envision anything. I merely report what has actually happened in
our
schools. I hope it does not happen in yours.

If it is in fact happening in your schools then call the Federal department
of education and blow the whistle. What part of "breaking the law" are you
having trouble with?

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message

What part of "breaking the law" are you
having trouble with?


None. One teacher is no longer a teacher. My kids and grandkids are no
longer in the school so my only issue now is to vote down the bloated
budget.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message

What part of "breaking the law" are you
having trouble with?


None. One teacher is no longer a teacher.

Fired for failing to adhere to the IEP I hope.

My kids and grandkids are no
longer in the school so my only issue now is to vote down the bloated
budget.

Friend of mine was a schoolteacher for half his life, has a PhD in
education, he agrees with you, every chance he gets he votes against
increased funding for the schools.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message

Friend of mine was a schoolteacher for half his life, has a PhD in
education, he agrees with you, every chance he gets he votes against
increased funding for the schools.


People equate dollars spent with quality of education. School
administrators think if you are against the budget, you are against
education.

One of the teachers is a member of the finance committee (and gets paid
extra as a coach too) . He did not like it when I brought up the fact that
the teacher's pay increase is more than what his property tax will be going
up. My taxes increased $450 but I don't get a raise because the budget
passed. There were also a couple of line items that the school board knew
would be much less, but did not disclose it until after tax bills were sent
out, but they kept the money. Spending is over $11k per student.

Sure seems that way. We has some unruly kids in school, but we all got
through with no drugs. While there are some ADHD kids, it seems as
though
there has been an explosion of them in recent years. Why is that

It's the usual cycle. Big pharma comes up with a drug, doctors come up
with
a desease to go with it.

Wrong. They do not sink R+D money into drugs that there is no market for.
They identify a potential product that can be marketed to address a problem
then they develope the product. Pharmaceutical comapanies may be guilty of
many things that we don't like, but they don't throw money into new products
that don't have a protential market that already exists.

Sure seems that way. We has some unruly kids in school, but we all got
through with no drugs. While there are some ADHD kids, it seems as
though
there has been an explosion of them in recent years. Why is that

There is a common misconception that "ADHD" and "unruly" are synonymous--I
suspect that the increase in ADHD diagnosis in recent years has been
mostly
the result of increased recognition of the "inattentive" form, in which
the
kid is not unruly at all, he just spends most of his time with his mind
somewhere else. In any case, if Ritalin makes an unruly kid less unruly
it
means that the kid didn't want to be unruly in the first place--if he
_wants_ to be unruly Ritalin won't stop him.

My oldest son has ADD Attention Defecit Disorder similar to ADHD but
without the Hyperactivity component. I couldn't agree more with Mr Clarke.
He recently graduated from high school. None of his teachers ever accused
him of being unruly. He did have one hell of a time paying attention in
class. Stimulant drugs made school a little more bearable for him. He did
still need a lot of coaching from us and his teachers to make it through.
Some teachers did well for him.

Others seemed to resent his presence in their classroom and targeted him.
Discipline was heaped on him. It did no good. Discipline is NOT THE ANSWER
for these kids. The people who think it is are not paying attention to the
facts. Maybe THEY need the discipine.

Heaping "discipline" on ADD, ADHD and Autistic kids only damages their self
image and chases them out of school.

Roger

And what drug company do you work for?

"Roger amd Missy Behnke" wrote in message
...

Sure seems that way. We has some unruly kids in school, but we all got
through with no drugs. While there are some ADHD kids, it seems as
though
there has been an explosion of them in recent years. Why is that

It's the usual cycle. Big pharma comes up with a drug, doctors come up
with
a desease to go with it.

Wrong. They do not sink R+D money into drugs that there is no market for.
They identify a potential product that can be marketed to address a
problem
then they develope the product. Pharmaceutical comapanies may be guilty
of
many things that we don't like, but they don't throw money into new
products
that don't have a protential market that already exists.